well that is the reason I never comment on anything you write Anne. To much drama.
well that is the reason I never comment on anything you write Anne. To much drama.
e: nevermindOriginally Posted by Frances
Last edited by whowhatwhen; 08-27-2015 at 08:26 PM.
There is a place called "youtube" where people upload detailed descriptions of their dreams and fantasies. It attracts other people with similiar dreams and fantasies which expands on the original idea. Youtube is still very usable as far as I know and people have gone on to realize their dreams.
But you raised a good point.
What is the purpose of this forum then? Is it to slap people in the face with a hit of reality? Or is it to nurture one's dreams and fantasies so that they may one day take the leap?
Maybe this entire forum should just be divided into TWO sections, "reality" and "fantasy".
Dreams and fantasies, in its strictest sense, should not have any correlation with real life.
The question is, do you allow that here in the forum?
I can't say this on behalf of everybody, but everything that I am today in real life, is one way or another related to my fantasies.
Okay, so I'm not the first officer of the USS Enterprise, neither am I Vulcan or Betazoid, but I've spent a great deal of my time travelling and exploring places others would never dream to go and my job consists of being empathetic and logical at the same. Do you understand this analogy?
Your surgeon tells you both sides of the story, that is, "hair transplant could restore some of your hair", but the "hair restored is most likely to be modest and it could potentially fail".
This is merely a fact he tells you, you decide if that panders to your fantasies or not. If you chose to focus on the fact that it could "restore your hair", then you are pandering to your fantasies. If you chose to focus on the fact that the "hair restored is modest and could potentially fail", then you are pandering to your need for reality.
It has nothing to do with the surgeon if he was indulging your fantasies or not. People do that for themselves.
Love,
S
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me" - Ayn Rand
Holy crap, ladies... I'm all for real talk - it's a large part of why I like the people in this forum - but there comes a point in any heated dialogue where you're just stuck in a feedback loop of ever-increasing vitriol and rage, and it's time to walk away, breathe, and simmer down for a bit.
I'm becoming convinced that a slightly different division of forums would be helpful here, or at least a restatement of purpose for the existing ones. I am firmly of the opinion that the "real talk" surrounding full-time transition is hugely valuable, and entirely necessary - it's a big part of why I value this forum.
I'm not suggesting what the name should be, but I think there needs to be a forum in the Safe Haven for people who are specifically in the midst of, have completed, or are planning on undertaking a full-time transition. Alternatively, there could be a non-transitioning forum. Or, the public TS forum could be redeclared as the place for the "wider variety of experiences" discussions, and the Safe Haven could be restricted to those pursuing full-time transition. I don't care what the configuration looks like, but if (as I and others believe) there are specific realities associated with being full-time that need frank discussion, then we need a place to discuss those things without people complaining about feeling marginalized. Similarly, the people undergoing different sorts of transitions that may not result in full-time need a place to discuss their issues without feeling marginalized. The system is not doing any favors for either group as it stands right now, at least lately.
Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.
I would have thought that the answer was simple. If you are so sensitive that you cannot stand anybody disagreeing with you then you just do not post on those threads. Why have separate boards. Why move discussions about being full time to a restricted area so newbies cannot see them leaving them relying on part timers.
The way some people write it would seem that Anne has the ability to stop them posting. She is expressing an opinion. One I sometimes I agree with and sometimes don't. It does not stop anyone else expressing their opinion. Or are we back to the attitude that you can challenge what someone says but if someone challenges something you say they are bullying you?
I know that HRT makes you go through a second puberty but that does not mean people have to act like over sensitive teenagers. We are all adults here (or maybe not).
Last edited by emma5410; 08-27-2015 at 09:22 PM.
The forum is divided into fantasy and reality. There is the Crossdresser sub forum and the Transsexual sub forum.
We should feed into people's fantasy is they are considering transition. Advocate for full transition at the fastest speed possible. NOT. Sorry those needing to transition need to know it's not a walk in the park. Transition is F****ing hard. It's real. It's expensive. The potential for losses are great. Very, very few suffer no or minimal loss. So yeah we should encourage and support unrealistic and fantastical ideas.
We all have different experiences. They all have value if they are experienced and lived. I made a comment in another thread. I'm finding the 2nd year more difficult than the first and I had the benefit of FFS in the second. The first I thought was fairly easy even without the benefit of FFS. Others have said the first year was harder than the second. Different experiences, but valid because they are lived experiences.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
You don't offer a different point of view.
Seems to be the way here now! There are a certain few who have to give their opinion on everything. I guess they just want their post numbers to go up. Kinda why I have giving up on this forum.. Oh don't forget to spell check me and point out my flaws !!! I came here for support and advice and possible meet new friends. So much for that . but who am I to say anything .
Pretty sure I did when I said some people are afraid to post here, but it's totally okay and fine.
Actually, you have never asked for any kind of support or advice in the TS forums. As for people here spell checking you - their posts would not be allowed to stand and if they persisted, they would soon find themselves in trouble.
Your one and only other post in this forum was informational and was greeted as such.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
<walks in a peeks around>
For what it's worth, I agree with everything you said in principle. If we were all adults here though, this thread wouldn't be in the state it's in.
Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.
A modest suggestion, if I may. Please try to look outside of yourselves and your own lives a bit. Some of you do this, but quite a few don't really seem to do so.
So we're really arguing over whether or not it's OK to call out people as fakes based on their posts here? Really?
Is this the biggest problem we are all facing? Potentially delusional people on a forum?
Or are we arguing for the tough "love" approach because, gosh darn it, the world is becoming a (tiny bit) more accepting of us, and we can't risk someone getting through the gauntlet and taking less BS than we took?
Or is this just for the cis spouses, who are probably going to get a divorce anyway, because it's all fun and games until someone starts on hormones?
None of these seem like real problems to me. (Sure, divorce, discrimination, etc. are very real problems. The great trans-fakers and regretters? Um, OK.)
The "American Horror Story: Asylum" style mental health care available for trans patients in the local psychiatric hospital here, or the new trans health clinic that only supports trans people who are HIV+, or homeless (everyone else, better hope your 30 hour per week minimum wage job no health insurance benefit job leaves you enough at the end of the month to fill your prescription) - those seem like real problems.
By the way, the two of those problems together are, of course, extra-super-awesome. Imagine working your crappy job, sinking into gender dysphoria, attempting suicide, and then getting stuck, for weeks, in a psychiatric hospital that misgenders you and makes your problem WORSE, thus prompting an even longer stay in the hospital. Because while Texas will fight tooth and nail against paying money to make one of us better, it'll gladly spend tax payer dollars to make one of us worse.
In fact - those are EXACTLY examples of real problems out where I live. I dunno, Texas is a hell-hole, I'll be the first to admit that, and maybe people transitioning by mistake are the biggest problem out y'all's way.
But I bet if you go outside and play with others, you can find some bigger problems than the ones being discussed in this thread.
I personally observed the following problems of members of my local community just this evening:
1. Trans women suffering from autism
2. Trans woman of color who suffers from bipolar / schizoaffective disorder
3. Homeless trans woman of color who lost it all thanks to Meth. She'd been in and out of transition for years.
I could go on - but you get the idea. Maybe "tough love" would've saved all these women from the horrible situations they face. I mean, I thought about telling them the cold hard truth "you probably shouldn't have transitioned unless you are fairly well off, white, and abled." But call me crazy - I did the following instead:
1. Talked to the autistic woman about the therapy program I'd helped her enroll in
2. Took the schizoaffective disorder girl back to a more quiet room, where she could gather her thoughts, and actually hold a conversation with me. I ended up finding her a ride home, which I bought the gas for, because she was too freaked out by all the excitement in the meeting to figure out the bus schedule.
3. Put the homeless woman in touch with a member who works for one of the homeless agencies in the area. No dice for tonight, but we'll try to find SOMETHING for her. (Yeah, I had nothing for this one. Sucks - homelessness here is a really nasty problem.)
I also gave a new girl a set of breast forms and a bra, because she had NOTHING, and me and my fellow committee members gave away a year of free HRT to three people, two legal name and gender marker changes, some binders and a wig, and, oh yeah, top surgery to two deserving trans people, one dude, one chick. (No, I'm not kidding about this stuff, me and several others worked all year to make this happen - we've helped out about 20 people in this way - not nearly enough, but it has used up essentially all the money we've been able to raise, and most of the service donations we've been able to beg.)
I point out all the above not to say "oh look, I'm so awesome" because I'm FAAAAR from awesome. I fail people. I fail them a lot.
But I do at least go out once in a while and look for real problems. And every once in a while, with the help of others, a solution comes up. Sometimes it even helps. Go figure.
Oh, and lest you think the stuff I do out in the real world is irrelevant to this discussion, I've helped quite a few people I've met here. Yep. Met one of them in person and talked to her on Sunday, in fact.
Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to call and check on a suicidal trans woman I know.
P.S. Homeless girl found her way over to my condo, so apparently I'll continue to deal with her, too.
Paula you bring up 3 examples that are not exclusive to Trans individuals. There are far more Cis individuals as a percentage that suffer from the conditions you just described. I will agree that having GD can complicate those issues.
Hell, since terms are so unimportant. I should never have started facial hair removal. I should not have come out to anybody especially family and work. Should never have changed my legal name. I could have saved a ton of money on electrolysis, and FFS.
I would declare to the world. I'm a woman. Accept me as one. Life would have surely been a lot easier. I would still be married. I would still have a healthy bank account.
Come on this is the TS forum. We should have least be able to agree on authenticity. No? Full time should mean full time. Out to all. Out at work ( or unfortunately unemployed at work because you are authentic). Legal name change. (Yes there may be some that have difficulty or no money. But if you don't change your name. Don't complain you aren't treated as female. ).
You can argue all you want here how unfair it is. The reality is how does society deal with it. In a perfect world. The Cis population would be supportive, accepting and heat us with open arms. But they don't. They think we are mentally ill. They respond with ridicule, hatred and violence. We are lower than the low.
On this forum we don't usually hear from those that are disadvantaged. I know a girl has been whining about the treatment she gets from medical practitioners. She whines about people addressing her with her male name. Well guess what her name is still legally male. She has all kinds of excuses. She won't be able to collect her inheritance. She doesn't have the money. It's too expensive. And the list goes on. In NJ it costs $250 for the court and 100 bucks for the newspaper affidavits. Add in another 100 bucks for the NJ Treasury and other misc. Yes that can be an obstacle. But after 3 years. No excuse. You can collect aluminum cans to scrap to raise that amount of cash. Many want the easy way and don't want to work for it.
I have a Cis female friend that is unemployed, her home is in foreclosure. She has no money, no idea where she is going to live in 2 weeks after she is evicted. She doesn't suffer GD. But her life is no less easier because she doesn't suffer GD.
You can't blame all your life troubles on GD. Transition cures one thing and one thing only. Your GD. If your are unemployed before, you will still be unemployed after. If you have an affinity to abuse drugs or alcohol, that will be there after transition. If you are Autistic before transition. You will be Autistic after. The list goes on. Life goes on. You still have to deal with life after transition. My experience "full time" transition introduces additional stressors that may not have been present prior. If you can't handle life prior to transition. The odds you can handle life stressors any better after Transition are slim to none.
Last edited by stefan37; 08-28-2015 at 07:28 AM.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
Some people are afraid to post here. WHo would disagree with that?? I wish they wouldnt but so be it..
thats not a different opinion
i wonder if you understand the meaning of the word opinion...
...what you do is try to tweak members with petty little passive/aggressive comments..you did a good job of it on this thread
---
and Paula you are projecting big time... discussions over authenticity are and mental asylums are far far apart..
i'm sorry to say the issues you are facing in your corner of the world are outside the scope of a forum like this sometimes...
and i find it pretty presumptive of you that you assume those three things you did are not done by others outside of the scope of this forum
i have easily spoke to thousands of physician assistant students, i have volunteered at the local trans center where homeless and young TG folk spend time, i have donated money and written letters and helped people get their name changed without paying a lawyer..
Last edited by Kaitlyn Michele; 08-28-2015 at 07:18 AM.
This is one of the safest places you are ever going to find, sweetie. We support each other. We share experiences, successes and failures. If someone challenges you, then that is the basis for questions... we all have our own headspace and our own situations. None of them invalidate yours.
- MM
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
No, Paula. You got it completely wrong. That's not what the OP is about at all. Not even one bit.
Impressive job patting yourself on the back, though.
And yeah, what Madame Moose said!!
Last edited by Anne2345; 08-28-2015 at 07:49 AM.
Absolutely.
A gender transition requires a resolve that doesn't exist in someone who can't overcome the fear of an internet forum, especially one as heavily moderated as this one.
Some people tend to mistake being treated with respect for being treated as an authority figure, and when you don't accept their authority, they complain that they're not being respected.
Paula, the problem of the fantasy driven (among others) transitioning isn't that it's a big problem in the big 'ol real world. That's a self-limiting problem with a few high-profile exceptions. The FORUM problem is the noise it introduces in the perspective and advice given to actual transsexuals and people actually transitioning.
Well-expressed re authority and respect, Misty. I like the formulation.
There is a special problem with transsexualim when it comes to authority. That is, the most knowledgeable people on the topic are transsexuals, most of whom are not researchers! The average doctor has little to no real perspective, never mind training on the topic. When they do, it's narrow (endo, surgeon, therapist, whatever). And even they are often not current. When the very best (and I really mean exactly that) you can muster is a bunch of armchair experts, recognize that the only way they got there, at any level, isn't just because they are well-read. It's because being pushed HARD by challenges is needed to make-up for lack of holistic perspective that long and rigorous training yields. It's a poor substitute that leaves loose ends and holes everywhere, but that's what we have. Expect challenge and refutation. Welcome it.
Lea
Do I owe you any favors? I don't think so. I never said it was a rule either and I will respond to what wish when it suits me.
I try to be respectful to others here, I was to you too. You have obviously been very offended though and are angry at me for it. Hope you are able to get over it.
Funny how some of the challengers are not so good at being challenged even just a little.
Thanks for the PM by the way. It was very sweet ;-) Do you send others that you don't agree with those types of messages too or am I just that special to you?
(Am I being passive aggressive?)
Last edited by arbon; 08-28-2015 at 01:10 PM.
I think we are discussing different aspects of dreams/fantasy. One is unrealized - yet realistic - possibility. This serves as an important internal driver, even when it FEELS unrealistic or unachievable. The other is escapism. It doesn't drive toward solutions, it drives away from them. There is a place for that in life, too, but not here, IMO.
I do understand your point on logic and empathy. It is a balance for which I strive but don't seem to hit often enough. My need to be rigorous and exhaustive produces writing that is perceived as aggressive and intimidating, unfortunately.
As far as the forum's purpose, it is nominally support and on transsexual topics only. The need, from a support perspective, isn't coaxing people from dream to realization because the problem that typically presents is confusion. Fantasy interjects primarily in the form of unrealistic, escapist scenarios when it comes from these people. Its continuance is enabled when people feed it.
So what about the realization of real things, then? Support for this happens ALL THE TIME HERE. Why doesn't anyone recognize this? It may be as gentle as encouraging someone to go out, to experiment. It can be experiential when people recount how they got around their fears. It can be consoling and forgiving when it comes to failures and backsteps. But it doesn't happen until a measure of clarity and need has emerged, nor should it. To encourage someone down that path before they are ready is dangerous and destructive.
As I recall, you are a doctor. If so, I hope you won't be offended by this, but giving medical advice, whether presented in factual form or not, is never a mere presentment of facts. In any event, I didn't say he pandered ... I (effectively) said he did not. Your self-indulgence (better than "pandering" I think) point is valid and that does happen regularly in the forum.
Lea
This site is a great site for people who are transgender and struggling with where they fit on the scale. I too first came to the site because it was a cross-dresser site and I didn't know if I would ever be able to transition. I had tried a few times, and was forced to abort or face some consequences I wasn't willing to accept at the time. I just wanted to be able to meet and discuss with other people like me.
When I joined the transsexual forum, I had still been living in my birth gender, and was struggling bitterly over it. I'd already had two heart attacks and a stroke because I had stopped caring about everything. I didn't care that my weight was out of control, I didn't care that my health was bad, I didn't care that I was alone, locked in my "iron mask" trying to avoid any real conversation about my by maintaining a barrage of diversions and isolation tactics. My wife knew I was transgender and accepted me as a cross-dresser and non-transitioning transgender person.
I had established feminine accounts for myself as Debbie, and began to realize how much better and happier I was as Debbie.
When my dad told me "Be yourself, even if that means being Debbie", it triggered something. I started paying more attention to the transsexual group, I began to watch as others shared their experiences at various stages of their journey. I had actually been considering suicide prior to joining this group. At one point, I had even mixed a "Prestone Cocktail". I realized that if I was willing to drink that, I was willing to give up whatever was necessary to be happy in this life. This group made it a real possibility that I could transition, and I wanted to so badly it was literally killing me.
I really need to thank everyone in this group for all of the inspiration and support that you have shared with me and with each other. I have tried to share some of my experiences to help others.
This group understands where we are and where we are going as only others who have "been there" could know.
Facebook - Debbie Lawrence
Web - [URL="http://www.debbieballard.org"]DebbieBallard.org{/URL]
See also:
Open4Success
I just want to chirp in by saying I am just starting my journey and there times I'm still not sure what to do. But I was willing to step in front of a bus. I had reached the point to me something has to change. I look to you all wonderful girls for guidance and stories support the can make some sense. I don't know how this is going to play out I only want to fit in. I also know I'll never pass but who caries. I'm still in the army reserve for 5-7 more years so fear and omg what my fellow Soldiers are going to think. I have hope of the change is coming to make it better.
Erika
Those of you on the 'transition' path have my utmost respect. Changing your identity is no small thing. I will stand up for any of you to make it a safer place.
I hate bigots...
- MM
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
You may care a lot down the road. That environment is probably going to be more challenging than most, or maybe not you never can tell. FFS can do a lot for a woman though.
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