Why veracity matters

[Badtranny]

Apparently the veracity of members is very important.

It's confounding to me that so many believe that the veracity of members is NOT important.

I guess I just need to know something once and for all; Is the TS forum supposed to be a support forum for people that are TRANSITIONING or not?

Why is it sooooooo difficult to make a distinction between people that are doing the hard stuff and those who are not? There are no guitar forums where people who don't play guitar are allowed to pontificate on playing guitar. There are no motocross forums where people who have never raced are allowed to talk about what they would do in a race. Try it sometime.

I will not support the closeted in their effort to pretend they are not closeted. The very essence of transition is about NOT being closeted. Yes I understand that we all have our own timelines, but a 'timeline' suggests a measure of progress does it not?

Real? A picture of trans women out and about says nothing about transition. I know several people who may or may not be trans who go out 'dressed' all the time. Is that what this TS forum is about? Going out dressed? Outings? You wanna be out? Then be OUT.

Why are people who are on record as not being out at work, not changing their name, not putting themselves at risk, allowed to come here and say things like "GD never goes away"? does it matter to anyone (except me) that there are trans women here who have put everything on the line just to be free? Does that mean anything to anyone? Are people who don't want to come out at work because it's scary as hell really in the same boat?

I know why we are marginalized and discounted in real life, but why on this forum? Shouldn't this forum at least celebrate the people who would risk everything to be free? Does coming out mean anything in this 'community'?

[Eryn]

...Is the TS forum supposed to be a support forum for people that are TRANSITIONING or not?

"Transitioning" means "in the process of transition." Everyone here is at their own point of the process. Some are plodding along like the tortoise, others are sprinting like the hare. We have different knowledge bases and points of view, and most of us are cooperating to help each other achieve our goals whether they will occur in the next week or next decade. The validity of what is said by any of us is up to the reader.

[becky77]

As much as I agree with you, this is the TS forum not the Transitioning forum.
Some TS will never transition but they still need somewhere to discuss their feelings.

I have no issue with it or where someone is at, we all have our stories.

The only way you would solve it is to have a 'Transitioning/Transitioned only' sub-forum, I'm not sure that would work either.
My own preference would be for the TS section to not be linked to the new posts, at least that way people are visiting on purpose.

We have safe haven but it's not used enough, if you only want input from TS then post there?

Back to the OP, people on here seek Veracity because everyone is treated with suspicion.
How do you expect someone to prove themselves?
Meeting someone proves nothing, I met several Trans people that have not been full-time, just cause they meet up as a woman doesn't mean they are not still living most of their life as a man.


Fraudsters are horrible and insidious but they win if we start to suspect everyone.

[Sara Jessica]

Some TS will never transition but they still need somewhere to discuss their feelings.

I may be one of the few who agree but...(holding my tongue).

[Kate T]

We have had a number of threads lately over authenticity, veracity, what should be posted here blah blah blah. Well, Melissa, you say what you think and I respect you for that, but it is coming straight back at you this time I'm sorry.

We have Safe Haven. You want response from post or in transition TS only post it in there if you ask me. It's not used that much, that is OUR fault, not the people "who aren't doing the hard stuff".

For me, the TS forum provides an access point for those who have a genuine wish to understand TS (noting also that I really don't like the term TS despite now being full time). Maybe they are questioning whether they are TS, maybe they are partners wanting to understand their transitioning SO, maybe they are CD, TG, Gender fluid, or whatever other annoying label we want to come up with but most importantly they want to understand. I will not turn them away and tell them "you just won't ever understand because your not TS". Yeah, sure, occasionally we get and imposter or a misdirected CD lost in the pink fog who thinks they want to play with the "cool" girls and guys, but for the most part they quickly drop off and rarely have an enormous amount to contribute. The really crass or dumb ones are weeded out by Tamara, Nigella and Rhianna pretty quickly as well. And sometimes, maybe, yes they need to see the TS forum to work out "crap, that just is not me!".

If you don't like someone or think they are just having a bit of a fantasy either ignore them or just explain succinctly but nicely exactly why their post is not appropriate. IT isn't hard to be polite and is more likely to win us friends and support than getting hoity toity about whether they "should" be posting here.

[Angela Campbell]

The way a professional therapist who specializes in transition explained it to me was, a transexual is what a person is. Transition is what a person does.

I was a transexual from birth. Took 50 years for me to get to transition. Then again, I know some who transitioned but are not TS. One is a gay man who transitioned because he didn't like gay men and wanted to have relationships and sex with straight men. Talk to this person for a short time and it is pretty clear.

Transition is a tough thing. Having debilitating fear is part of it. Not being clear that you will is often a part of it too.

In most cases you can tell whether or not someone here is real, but it can be faked. Sometimes, "it takes one to know one" is true. Most of us who have transitioned seem to be able to tell. You can see it in the responses, or more often lack of responses to some threads.

Hell, some days I'm not even sure that I'm real. Maybe this is all just a dream.

[GabbiSophia]

Question for you Misty to help me understand the veracity of your comments and the stance that you always have.

How long did it take for you to come out at work once you moved forward on your timeline? Did all the time prior to that moment make you any less of a TS than after that moment? Did the things you did up to that point group into the category of "hard stuff" or did that only happen after you came out at work?

Seems that it is always a question that comes up to prove that what one has through is tougher than another. Why not just accept that it is all hard and not all people can understand what another has gone through because the process is so individualized?

I almost see a sadness in the way it is received for transitioning. Hell the comment "do not transition unless you have to" inflects that it transitioning is not something to celebrate.

Of course you will discount me because I am frozen with fear and do not want to face the TS syndrome. The steps I am taking do not mean anything to anyone ..... except me.

[Carlene]

Within our community isn't this the forum where we should be most inclusive? Should we not be celebrating those who have transitioned, extend our best wishes to those who are in the midst of their journey, and be empathetic to those, for whatever reason, find themselves unable to move forward?

[PretzelGirl]

I understand your concerns Misty. There is one thing that will be true about this entire site and that is that people are unverifiable. The extreme will give themselves away but others plod along.

So sticking with the assumption that people are who they say they are... I have always read this subforum along with Body Issues. Maybe early on I would have replied at time or two, but I mostly read. Somewhere when I got into the more questioning area, I starting posting and replying. I can look back at my "New Threads Started" and see posts my here and the one saying "The Door is Open and I Am Stepping Through" is not the first one. I agree that we should all be able to post TS topics here. It is great that everyone can self identify, but you do get back to the problem that if someone is misrepresenting themselves even a little, you may not be able to know. We just have to be able to keep an open eye and consider all input appropriately. Safe Haven, to me, is the area where you can post and have another level of privacy. Only MTF Transsexuals are allowed there and that choice is by moderator standards. Of course a fraud can get in there too. It is impossible to have perfect verification.

Then there becomes a problem of who is transsexual and who is another identity. I'll admit that my work in the community makes me more inclusive. I will take anyone at their word because that is what I advocate for is self-identification. Others may want to see something more tangible. The problem becomes, how much information about each of us do we need to post? I look at Sophia, Michelle, Eryn and I am not one to try and take their identity away. They have all been, at least what seems, upfront to us. I certainly believe all is at it seems as I don't see anyone putting themselves on the firing line like they have with their unique situations.

I understand your trepidations. I am also guessing that when things are rocky, knowing your source can be important. What can we do? Not only are we on-line where nothing is verifiable (barring a list of who everyone has met), but gender identity is an internal sense of self. The external is gender expression. Transsexuality is linked to the identity, not the expression. So people's words are all we have to go with.

Ultimately, what has the forum done for many? I came here when I had a file cabinet of clothing and everyone's help across all the subforums educated me and carried me through my discovery and my transition. That is what is important to me. Have we made lives better? Have we maybe saved lives? The imposters become less relevant in this context to me and the ones that might self identify to get "in" become obvious. Then all the context can be taken as we wish.

[Michelle789]

Paula, your post is very well written and sums up everything that I was thinking.

I know why we are marginalized and discounted in real life, but why on this forum?

So, if we expect everyone to fit into a cookie cutter definition of what a transitioner is, we are marginalizing a good chunk of the transgender community. We are leaving out many people who don't conform to the norms expected to be a member of this forum, who in turn have nowhere to turn. Wait. The transgender community in real life does this too. Haven't genderqueers been marginalized by the trans community? Haven't the passable ones socially ostracized the non-passable ones? Haven't those who have suffered through more pain - worse dysphoria, more procedures, or more social difficulty - put down the ones who suffered through less pain?

Yes, this shit happens in the real life trans community, not just on this forum. It's really a shame that we as a community can't be more united. No wonder the whole world hates us. We must unite and put aside all our differences if we are to gain acceptance and tolerance in this world.

Genderqueers, or other trans people who don't fit the cookie cutter mold of being transgender, are often excluded from the real life transgender community. We don't really have a place for everyone else. I mean, we have MTF CD. We have transmen. We have the transsexual forum.

But what about the genderqueers?

What about gender fluids? Agenders?

What about those who want to live as a woman socially, but not medically transition?

What about those whose GD is relieved from a small dosage of HRT, and no need to socially or legally transition?

What about those who are genetically blessed and don't need FFS?

What about those who desperately need FFS but have no way of funding it?

What about those who transition in every way possible, but are content with their penis?

What about those who transition in every way possible, and need the whole gamut of procedures, but have to pick between FFS and SRS? They only have the money for one or the other, but desperately need both?

What about those that can't get surgery or HRT because of old age or serious medical conditions?

What about those who are underprivileged and live in states or other geographic locations where changing their name and/or gender is nearly impossible?

What about those who have special circumstances preventing them from changing their name and/or gender? Maybe it's employment. Maybe it's related to being in school. Maybe someone is torn about whether or not to keep their birth last name or change it to something else.

How about someone who was given a he/she name at birth, is content with their birth name because it passes as for both male and female, and doesn't change name, only gender?

What about the transitioner who really wants to save up as much money as possible before coming out at work, so if they get fired, they can have enough money to pay for FFS, SRS, electrolysis, HRT, food, rent, transportation, and the last minute emergency that costs $3000?

What about those who are lucky to still have jobs after coming out from work?

What about those who deliberately don't want to pass? Those who want to retain some male features, or those who have passing privilege who choose to come out to everyone as trans.

What about those who were lucky enough to gain a relationship after starting their transition?

What about those who in fact got their highest salary since transitioning?

Have you ever considered that stuff that could go wrong during transition is not conventionally related to transition, such as bronchitis? Or the death of a family member? I mean, life still happens on life's terms while transitioning.

How about those that just don't believe in putting themselves back into another box after transitioning?


How many of you can honestly say you answered "yes" to any of the above questions? Just one. Even if none of the other situations apply to you, you can relate to just one of them. Maybe you're the transitioner who was lucky to keep your job, but you lost your wife, and went through the whole set of procedures. But you don't fit neatly into the box of what is considered to be a transitioner, because you still have your job. I would imagine that way more of us don't fit neatly into the classical box of what a transitioner is supposed to do, look like, and experience. Maybe we all do, in some way or another. Humans are diverse and hence why transgender people do exist. Transgender people are just as diverse, and may variations exist within our community. There is no one-size fits all transgender person, or one size-fits all transsexual.

Maybe it's time we change the name of this forum to the "Transgender Forum", and we encompass all identities. And this section is appropriate for all general transgender related discussions, including questioning your own identity, gender dysphoria, coming out, social transition, victories, difficulties. We could keep the "Transsexual Body Issues" for discussions of HRT, electrolysis, and surgeries. And we can add a "Legal Transition" section for discussions around the legal aspects of transition. This, btw, is just a suggestion. I'm not trying to tell the mods here what to do, and I don't want to come across that way. But this idea is just a suggestion. Oh, and no matter how we would end up re-organizing the forum (or just keeping it as it is), I believe we should include everyone who identifies and goes through at least a part of the process, and go with the innocent until proven guilty. Asking people to "prove" their legitimate, and forcing people to comply to a rigid definition of what constitutes transition, is only going to either (a) exclude people who really need this forum, or (b) or result in people lying so that they can either prove themselves or lie to sound like they fit the rigid mold of what a transitioner is.

How can we ask for the world to accept us for being diverse if we can't accept the diversity within our own community?

Shouldn't this forum at least celebrate the people who would risk everything to be free?

Shouldn't this forum at least celebrate the people who risk everything to be free, but don't follow through with all procedures? Shouldn't we celebrate the transitioner who came out at work, lives 24/7, but elects to not go on HRT, get electrolysis/laser, and no surgeries? Shouldn't we celebrate the people who risk everything, but take their good old time in doing so? Shouldn't we celebrate the people who calculate their risks and execute them slowly, as well as those who risk everything all at once?

Why are people who are on record as not being out at work, not changing their name, not putting themselves at risk, allowed to come here and say things like "GD never goes away"? does it matter to anyone (except me) that there are trans women here who have put everything on the line just to be free? Does that mean anything to anyone? Are people who don't want to come out at work because it's scary as hell really in the same boat?

I only wish Cody could be a member of this forum and post. He would probably be laughing at the ways some of us here want to put ourselves, and everyone else, back into boxes. Isn't the point of transition to be your authentic self, and not to put yourself into another box? Even if you end up transitioning into a very binary identified, femininely dressed, feminine featured, feminine behavior woman who has had every procedure possible and legal name & gender change, well good for you, because that's who you are hopefully, and you weren't just trying to put yourself back into another box - the box of extreme femininity. Yeah, Cody wouldn't be too happy with the idea of someone having to legally change their name or gender to be considered a transitioner, full-time, or anything else. Why? Because Cody can't afford to pay the $700 court fee to change his documentation. Some higher income transitioners have an easier time coming up with $700, and lower income transitioners can get the court fee waived in Los Angeles County. But some of us make too much to get a waiver, and too little to afford the court fee. Perhaps someone from this forum who believes you must change legally change your name and gender to be considered RLE or full-time could give Cody $700 so he can legally change his name & gender.

Finally, I am a firm believe in innocent until proven guilty. Maybe there are some people who in spite of living and being raised in the United States believe in guilty until proven innocent. I will say this. Every one here who believes we should ask someone to prove that they are transitioning will never get picked for jury duty, for you can simply say that you believe the defendant is guilty until proven innocent. Obviously, anyone who believes that you need to prove yourself before posting believes that you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

[sarahcsc]

It's confounding to me that so many believe that the veracity of members is NOT important.

Veracity is important but veracity exists on a spectrum. How truthful must one be before one is considered 'honest'?

And if a person deceives, how much deception is considered dishonest? Is telling a partial truth being dishonest?

What proof do you need before you decide to acknowledge others? Also, what proof do you have that you are who you are?

This is the internet for goodness sake. If people can lie to you in person, they can lie to you on the internet. Are you going to find a way to police this too?

It is unrealistic to expect people to be honest all the time under all circumstances.

There are no guitar forums where people who don't play guitar are allowed to pontificate on playing guitar.

Yes, but one guitar player can still ask for proof of skill before they are willing to acknowledge each other. Soon, forum users will have to upload a youtube video to demonstrate they do indeed own a guitar and also their guitar skills before being allowed to join certain sections of a guitar forum.

I will not support the closeted in their effort to pretend they are not closeted. The very essence of transition is about NOT being closeted. Yes I understand that we all have our own timelines, but a 'timeline' suggests a measure of progress does it not?

And can you tell me the what is the very essence of 'eating'? When is 'eating' considered eating?

The moment we fantasize about eating? The moment food gets plated? The moment food gets placed in the mouth? The moment the food is chewed? The moment the food gets swallowed? The moment it is broken down and absorbed? What is 'eating'?

I will accept that transition, to you, in essence, is not meant to be closeted. But the word 'transition' simply means 'movement', 'to shift' or to 'change from one position to another'. For some, it could mean a transition from being closeted to being open. For others, it could something much more subtle.

Why are people who are on record as not being out at work, not changing their name, not putting themselves at risk, allowed to come here and say things like "GD never goes away"? does it matter to anyone (except me) that there are trans women here who have put everything on the line just to be free? Does that mean anything to anyone? Are people who don't want to come out at work because it's scary as hell really in the same boat?

Is it possible that you are projecting your own feelings unto others?

As far as I'm concerned, you and every other members on this forum has equal rights to write and publish whatever you want, how are you being marginalized?

Nobody is trying to undermine your sacrifices but you undermine other people's sacrifices when they mention a struggle different to yours.

And yes, you made a lot of sacrifices, what else do you want? A cookie!?

Shouldn't this forum at least celebrate the people who would risk everything to be free?

Well said, but it sounds like you are more inclined to celebrate your own triumphs.

A professional mountain climber can celebrate his triumph over Mount Everest, but does this mean a paraplegic shouldn't celebrate just being able to stand?

It isn't what is being achieved that matters, but how it was achieved. To a professional climber, there is nothing harder than scaling Everest, but being able to stand is probably the hardest thing a paraplegic can do. Aren't both their feats equally heroic and worth celebrating?

You are passionate Misty. For that, I admire you.

But you have some thinking to do.

Love,
S

[Badtranny]

...and so most of the people that have replied in rebuttal are also people that are on record as not transitioning or "partially transitioning". Some thinking to do indeed.

Also, after all of the embarrassing things that I've written here in service to those who may be ready to pull the pin, those who aren't doing so only see that I'm "celebrating my own triumphs"? What triumphs? Swallowing a lifetime of cowardice and coming out of the closet?

Only someone who has not endured the pain of a public transition could possibly think that I am trying to aggrandize myself in any way on this forum. I post completely unaltered pics, I write as honestly as I can.

You people can redefine what it means to transition here. It's of no consequence to me, and there will come a time when you will no longer be confronted by the likes of me, but remember this; You have to face yourself in the mirror everyday and you will have to reconcile the life you lead vs the life you want as you try to sleep every night. It's your closet. Your fear. Yours alone.

[Eryn]

There are some people who will maintain that the only people who have transitioned are those who have gone through full bottom surgery and that those who haven't had that experience lack credibility.

What is that saying about glass houses?

We're all in the same boat, Good ideas are good no matter who originates them.

[Sara Jessica]

I don't see this as an issue about whether one has transitioned or not...or even the degree of which. Instead, it is about why being truthful matters.

I find it to be of the utmost importance. I want to read about what is real, not some sort of fantasy fiction...especially if perpetuated by someone who makes it their work over the course of days/weeks/months or even years to create some sort of false narrative.

I want to learn about the trials and struggles of those who have taken the bold and necessary step into transition. I want to hear their good news even more. The overt downside tales break my heart.

Fact of the matter is that all of these things, these truths, feed into our collective psyche and our personal decision making and validation process. Spreading falsehoods muddies the waters at best and can be downright damaging. Those people should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

We're all in the same boat Eryn, I'm just floating on a different pond. I'm not here to give advice on a process I know little of. Never have, never will. But when it comes to living on my pond, I'll share my story to anyone who cares to hear it.

[becky77]

We're all in the same boat, Good ideas are good no matter who originates them.

Some of us are outside the safety of the boat, swimming with sharks!

And Sarahcsc you could do with learning what TS transition is, what you said is meaningless. You have been on here a while now, I think of you as one of the clever ones, what hope is there when no one truly listens to what is being said sometimes. People are so quick to read insults into everything.

For the record, I used to want to prove my 'Realness' I guess I had something still to prove to myself and others. Since transition I couldn't give a toss, there is way too much difficulty in my life to worry what a few online posters think.

[stefan37]

There are some people who will maintain that the only people who have transitioned are those who have gone through full bottom surgery and that those who haven't had that experience lack credibility.

What is that saying about glass houses?

We're all in the same boat, Good ideas are good no matter who originates them.

Misty has transitioned and she didn't have grs, and had no plans or desire to. There are many others here that have transitioned and haven't had bottom surgery for various reasons, health being one. They all have come out and line their lives as female 24/7. There are others that are transitioning without the benefit of hormones or surgeries. They are out and starting to live their lives 24/7.

You can't tell me that an individual that is " full-time except for.. " can comment on what's it's like in the work place and have any credibility.

There was a discussion on Estradiol patches. I inject and have no experience with patches. I would be unqualified to comment on the efficacy or benefit of patches.

The root issue as I see it is everybody makes up their own definition of whatever suits their particular situation.

I will end with living 24/7 as female is way different than living part-time. And the experiences are different.

All my comments and advice (if you want to call that) comes directly from my experiences. If I have no experience I refrain from commenting.

[Eryn]

Misty has transitioned and she didn't have grs, and had no plans or desire to. There are many others here that have transitioned and haven't had bottom surgery for various reasons, health being one.

I understand this and I have respect for all, regardless of their degree of physical or behavioral transition. I wasn't thinking of Misty when I wrote my post. What I meant was that those who wish for a "litmus test" to validate participation here may well find themselves on the outside looking in of the test adopted isn't the one they had in mind

How useful would a guitar forum be if it was limited to accomplished guitarists only? Eric Clapton might give some tips to Keith Richards and Mark Knopfler but would they be useful to someone in the middle of learning the art? I've found that the best teachers are those who are in the process of learning. They are not only fresh on what they have learned, they also remember the process by which they learned.

I'm not an advocate of the "jump off the cliff" school of transition. I could have been "loud and proud," announcing my transition to the world and to hell with everyone else, but that would have been unfair to my loved ones who are supporting me so much. I'm trying to find a path that minimizes problems. I don't want to leave scorched earth and broken lives behind me, nor do I want to destroy my own life of there is an alternative.

Someday, transition will be nothing extraordinary. It will be an everyday event on a par with getting married. That will be a happy day.

[LeaP]

The obvious first: Pending aditional clarity from the administrators and mods on precisely what this means, this forum is for discussion of "transsexual specific items and for Transsexuals to share their experiences" and it is open to the participation of all CD.COM members. There are also certain topics listed in the rules that are designated as not appropriate to the forum. These two statements of purpose and content are also brought together in Nigella's TS Forum sticky. That's it. Transitioning, never mind support itself, is not mentioned. Transsexual is not defined. As best as I can tell (and I didn't search comprehensively), the support purpose aspect is either assumed or accultured here. It has been mentioned many times by admins & mods, of course.

On the veracity point, I think experience matters. While someone without experience might offer good advice in a particular instance, their inexperience renders them unable to extend and adapt it. Coupled with the inexperience of the receiver (else why would they be asking), it makes such advice potentially dangerous. This is explicitly recognized in the case of HRT dosages, but the same principle applies to many other topics.

Regarding transitioners, the TS forum's purpose is completely up to the site owners. Nonethless, I would support Misty's implied position. The realities of transitioning have hit home. The differences in support needs among the various peoples posting here (how's that for avoiding problematic terms?) are also apparent - even limiting that to those who are, in fact, fully cross-sex identified. Critical assessment factors for me favoring the transitioner support focus include the HIGHLY specialized nature of the topics, their risk and impact, the limited availability of such support, and that the numbers of transitioners, never mind the cross-sexed, are vanishly few. I add to the last point that topical expertise is concentrated in those few - often even on medical and scholarly topics - and that the noise factor from others in a less-restricted forum is hugely disproportionate.

I should mention that I arrived LONG ago at the viewpoint that "transsexual" is not an identity or even a noun, though I still (unfortunately) feel compelled to use it that way in shorthand form. As far as I'm concerned, the term is best used as an adjective applied to a cross-sex identified person who has transitioned or is in the process of doing so. The reason isn't even semantic purity, as much as that is dear to my little heart. It is because that usage so neatly encapsulates the essence of transition, the concerns of which are irrelevant to others in the most personal sense.

Still, if the forum were transitioner focused ...

Where would that leave the truly cross-sex identified who are not transitioning and can or will not? I don't know.

Where would that leave the questioning? I would say their best interest would be in a separate forum where the responders would also be limited to transitioners ... along the lines of the "Ask a Transsexual" thread.

Where would that leave the gender-variant and others? Strictly, solely from the standpoint of transitioner concerns, I don't care. In answer to the oft-protested counter that alternative views from such on other solutions (e.g., middle path) are needed, I would say two things: transitioners already advise people to investigate solutions other than transition, and intermingling these populations and their views adds to confusion and not support. Someone investigating non-transition options deserves an arena as free from the distractions and dangers of the non-experienced as do transitioners. Transitioners typically have FAILED at non-transition solutions.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Veracity +
Specific Experience
=Credibility and Gravitas

whether you are ts or not, or whether you transition or not, its an open forum...

I bet there are MANY more transsexuals of age (lets say 40+ ish) that have not transitioned... and i bet there are many people struggling with gender identity that are not transsexual..
and of course the liar trolls, who may or may not be ts

i don't think its right to make anyone struggling with gender identity unwelcome here...however i know i've had run-ins here, i also don't think its right to play pollyanna and sugar coat what real transsexuals going through real transition live through.

and i think its wrong to sugar coat what NOT transitioning does to people too...and this includes families... the unrelenting nature of GD, the destructive nature of transition, the terrible isolation of years and years of ever increasing GD and and the "side effects" of living with GD are stark realities and so many of us avoided or repressed these realities to the point of hitting rock bottom... that's real... and its tiresome to get people that don't know this reality because they are not transsexual, or just havent hit rock bottom yet to tell me i'm too negative..
and then later i hear that some of these people were FRAUDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry but i have feelings too... i was in some big "kerfuffles..hehe" and on the other side are people that are known frauds.. i post here because i care and want to help...
i am incredibly open and honest...i have a depth of knowledge and experience...practical stuff...
and from my perspective i hope people listen to the honest people with experience.. if they want meaningful feedback, its the only way..

its hugely discouraging to think of the time wasted and if you really get analytical its the people that DONT KNOW anything that get hurt the worst...and frankly i don't think the mods really have much to do with it because they don't have any information that we dont... they have no tools to vouch for people..

=======================================

i recall when my kids were born talking to parents and non parents ...sometimes i'd hear non parents tell me what they thought i should do with my kids..

apart from wanting to rip their face off for daring to talk about MY kids, i understood that they literally knew nothing that could help me....

and if they did say something that helped me it was just an accident or something they heard from a real parent... that's what i see hear when "reasonable advice" comes from people that are lying about where they are...

i think its the same thing here.... and just like when i was a parent i got to pick and choose what felt right to me and in the end no matter what we say and no matter what the rules, in a forum where its really just words people are just going to have DO THE WORK themselves and in doing so they will be able to protect themselves..

i think based on years of being here the people that have been caught out as pure liars didnt do that much damage...they just wasted a lot of time... if you were caught up in those situations, i hope you didn't invest too much in what they said and i hope you can find the real person that was the real source of any advice that helped you or encouraged you...

in the end if you want to be "encouraged" there are lots of other places where you can get generic positivity that works in any situation..

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

To be honest I was going to avoid this thread like an uncharted minefield. However, I did feel obliged to provide my two cents and they can be taken for what they are worth. I consider myself TS and that was my call which wasn't based on some qualitative analysis of percentages/probabilities and other descriptive stats to define myself as such. I know I a woman and always was meant to be a woman . . . yeah it took 50 years to figure that out but some folks just need a bit of time. When I figured that out and accepted it, I took steps to deal with it in my own way. I tried the non-binary approach and in a sense I think it was just me holding on to what was comfortable (being a guy) but in the end it became confusing for others at work and for me in my day to day existence flopping between happy (being a woman) and sad (being a man). I came here because to be honest I was scared to death as finally pulling the pin on the tranny grenade (TM)was harder than anything I have every done in my life including combat. I got a smack down or two when I first came here but learned the ropes quite quickly: (1) Nobody here ever told me I could not be who I wanted to be. If I wanted to consider myself TS vice TG or whatever, that was my call; (2) respond, post, commiserate or whatnot but don't provide advice or comparative analysis on things you have not lived or don't have first hand knowledge (makes sense) ; and (3) this is a very personal thing.

Now I have gone as far as I can down the road without HRT or surgery and as I have maintained I don't feel the need and that is not to say some day I won't. However right now I do not. Does this mean I have transitioned to post-op? IMHO yes because I no longer live as a man, no longer consider myself a man and do not feel happy as a man. Could others see me as not TS because I have not pursued HRT, surgery nor aligned my birth sex with my gender legally? Possible but to be honest . . . I don't care because as I said in point number three of the things I learned . . . this is personal to the individual and that individual is me.

Keeping those things in mind while I may offer a congratulatory salutation for someone who posts about starting HRT, I would never dive in with my two cents about why they should or should not do so as I have no frame of reference to dispense such advice. Would I respond to someone looking for advice about coming out at work? Yes, because I have come out at work and understand the pitfalls of doing so. Would I respond to someone wanting to commiserate about how hard this can be? Well, that depends. I would provide discourse from my own POV regarding my own high and low points but I would never tell that person my way is the best way to handle things because my circumstances are fundamentally different.

In the end, nobody has come here (in my opinion) saying . . . psst I think you belong on the other side of the curtain sunshine, they have only asked that if you are going to participate in discussions, choose you words wisely and provide advice from a position of knowledge.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Eryn]

Eryn, are you changing your narrative on us? Because if I remember correctly, you were a committed 'middle pather' and now you are a careful transitioner?

Eryn's on HRT now. And yeah, she flipped over to the dark side with the rest of us....

Thank you for noticing, Paula, but let's not let the reality of my current status get in the way of Melissa's attack. It's a pretty good rant.

BTW, when I announced my decision here six months ago I received congratulatory replies and welcomes to the "dark side" from everyone in this thread. Well, there was one notable exception.

[Kate T]

...and so most of the people that have replied in rebuttal are also people that are on record as not transitioning or "partially transitioning". Some thinking to do indeed.

C'mon Melissa. Prior to this post Becky, myself, Sue and Erin all replied and all of us are full time as far as I am aware. That is hardly "most". Since this post Kaitlyn, Eryn, Leah and Paula have also all responded questioning your original concerns. There seems to be plenty of veracity there.

Gabbi, believe it or not, this really isn't about you personally. All of the above people I mentioned have given you support and advice, yes there are some "holier than thou" types out there but they are not limited to the TS community.

Are we going to be an inclusive community willing to help EVERYONE understand us or are we going to hide ourselves behind a layer of tribes and secret special "in" crowds. I'm not interested if it is the second option.

[emma5410]

But did I know I was "really a woman", not even close. So yeah, I smell a bit of "retrospectoscope" rewriting of some peoples history when they come up with a whole heap of cliche's describing their feelings about their life. And it doesn't just come from wannabes it comes from transitioned and transitioners as well.

Did you see what you did there. Just because you did know you were "really a woman" does not mean that others did not.

[emma5410]

The people on this forum are really inventive. We seem to constantly find new ways to have the same conversation. I agree that the forum should be open to everyone. That those who have travelled further down the path should give advice to those further back.
The problem is that some of those further back are shouting instructions to those nearer the front.

A professional mountain climber can celebrate his triumph over Mount Everest, but does this mean a paraplegic shouldn't celebrate just being able to stand?

No but it does mean that the paraplegic should not pretend that they know what it is like to climb Everest. They should not suggest that they care more about their families because they have stayed safe and sound at home.

When I first joined the forum I lurked and read all I could. I was facing transition and I was terrified. Suicide seemed the more likely option. I read posts by Kaitlyn, Melissa and others and to be honest I did not believe all of what they wrote. They said it was a tough road. Having followed their path I know they are right. From where I was initially I thought I understood. I had read so much. I was completely wrong I had no idea. Until you do it you have no idea. What is worst is that you have no idea that you have no idea.

But this conversation will go on and on. Those who will never transition fully , or do it so slowly that it amounts to the same thing, will continue giving advice to those who desperately need to and that is dangerous.

[Badtranny]

Eryn, are you changing your narrative on us? Because if I remember correctly, you were a committed 'middle pather' and now you are a careful transitioner?

Look, going slow and NOT transitioning is the smart way to go. Always, but even in this thread you are implying that you care more for your family than people who have transitioned despite having families. Doesn't anybody understand that point? You Eryn, have said many times that you can't transition because it wouldn't be fair to your loved ones, or something to that effect. You say you feel the same way as us, but you need to be careful about disrupting the lives of you and yours. Yet my friends have transitioned despite feeling the SAME WAY AS YOU!

People like you make a mockery of people like PaulaQ and Annie K. They both completely upended their lives resulting in losing homes and moving to different states. Both incredibly bright, passionate, level headed people yet they stopped talking and pulled the damn pin despite the cost, despite the pain. Who are you to tell them that they didn't love their family? You and others are absolutely on record with comments about not transitioning because of familial and/or professional obligations. By the way, they are both excellent reasons for not doing it, but my girls don't need to hear it. Do you not think they feel it? Don't you think they suffer some regret every now and then?

Further, I am not advocating for a TS only forum. I don't write for Paula and Annie and the other girls, I write for the newbies. I write for the people that are looking into the abyss. I honestly don't even know how to arrive at a forum that would be acceptable, but I am routinely disheartened by this one.

Also, Eryn, regarding the glass house comment, the analogy doesn't hold up because I don't pretend or portend that I have had any surgery other than what I have stated. A few of the girls on this board have seen me in Mexico and even more know me well enough personally to vouch for everything I've said. I'm glad you brought that up though because let's imagine that there was a Post-Op Forum. You may think that I would be sticking my nose in, but I certainly would not. I'm not a Postie, and I have a few very close friends that are, so I know those gals are dealing with stuff physically and emotionally that I have no idea about. Do they think that quitters like me are 'real' women? I don't know, and I don't care. Those girls are entitled to every feeling they have as far as I'm concerned, and I would never presume that they accept me as one of their own because I really really hate my penis, just haven't gotten around to it yet. They have done something that I won't do. My reasons are my own, but I still have a pickle and they don't. Those are just plain old facts. They are welcome to process those facts in whatever way suits them best.

At the end of the day, We are out. We have burnt down our old lives and now face every day with complete honesty about who we are and THAT is the only point I'm trying to make. I think this forum should be about celebrating honesty and authenticity. That's a worthwhile endeavor.