Why veracity matters

[Eryn]

Yes, I was harsher than I should have been. My buttons were pushed and I didn't consider the motives of the pushers.

I've been living with this for 50+ years, during most of which I had no idea of what my issue truly was. That was a true hell. Understanding my issue was a relief, but is only half the challenge.

Throughout my life I have developed coping skills and learned how to conform with society's expectations. Having these skills is a bit like giving a transfusion to a bleeding man. It'll keep him alive, but it won't fix his problem. On the other hand, the transfusion will allow time now that the problem is identified, for it to be addressed in the best way rather than in a panic.

That's where I am. I can clearly see the goal and I am progressing toward it at a pace I find acceptable. The fact that I am honest about this is fodder for a critic or two, but it also resonates with people in similar situations.

I have two FTF friends who have followed quite similar paths to transition. They are happy, their careers and relationships are intact, and they are great mentors. Yes, it took longer for them, but the result was worth it.

[GabbiSophia]

Becky read the original post. But I have an unbox full of people. I do have a bunch that are beyond nice though too. I have also met a few in meetings that are high and mugthy

[Kate T]

...and so most of the people that have replied in rebuttal are also people that are on record as not transitioning or "partially transitioning". Some thinking to do indeed.

C'mon Melissa. Prior to this post Becky, myself, Sue and Erin all replied and all of us are full time as far as I am aware. That is hardly "most". Since this post Kaitlyn, Eryn, Leah and Paula have also all responded questioning your original concerns. There seems to be plenty of veracity there.

Gabbi, believe it or not, this really isn't about you personally. All of the above people I mentioned have given you support and advice, yes there are some "holier than thou" types out there but they are not limited to the TS community.

Are we going to be an inclusive community willing to help EVERYONE understand us or are we going to hide ourselves behind a layer of tribes and secret special "in" crowds. I'm not interested if it is the second option.

[Angela Campbell]

The way a professional therapist who specializes in transition explained it to me was, a transexual is what a person is. Transition is what a person does.

I was a transexual from birth. Took 50 years for me to get to transition. Then again, I know some who transitioned but are not TS. One is a gay man who transitioned because he didn't like gay men and wanted to have relationships and sex with straight men. Talk to this person for a short time and it is pretty clear.

Transition is a tough thing. Having debilitating fear is part of it. Not being clear that you will is often a part of it too.

In most cases you can tell whether or not someone here is real, but it can be faked. Sometimes, "it takes one to know one" is true. Most of us who have transitioned seem to be able to tell. You can see it in the responses, or more often lack of responses to some threads.

Hell, some days I'm not even sure that I'm real. Maybe this is all just a dream.

[Carlene]

Within our community isn't this the forum where we should be most inclusive? Should we not be celebrating those who have transitioned, extend our best wishes to those who are in the midst of their journey, and be empathetic to those, for whatever reason, find themselves unable to move forward?

[LeaP]

Lea the tongue and cheek in your response to Kaitlyn falls short for me. I think her harsh way of saying it might be better than sugar coating it all the time. This crap is real and it sucks and at times I think I is needed. The one thing is though is that she didn't invalidate anyone while saying it and that is the difference .

And I for one am tired of high and mighty transexuals invalidating what I am going through because I am walking a different path.

This is why there is no community in this..to many high and mighty

You really lost me with this response. My response to Kaitlyn was dead serious.

And who in God's name are you talking about?

BTW, from where I sit, your situation isn't as unique as you apparently think it is. Your path is yours - no argument there. But it's hardly atypical so far.

[Brooklyn]

In just about any subject, I’m less concerned with what people believe, and more interested in what people have actually experienced. The new vocabulary around transgender life is so confusing; I’m highly “binary" and have gone from one closet half-way into another where I’m left wondering how many co-workers, acquaintances, and neighbors know or care about my status. But honesty from trans-women like Melissa gives this part of the forum integrity, which in turn makes it a great resource to those of us headed down the same path.

[emma5410]

The people on this forum are really inventive. We seem to constantly find new ways to have the same conversation. I agree that the forum should be open to everyone. That those who have travelled further down the path should give advice to those further back.
The problem is that some of those further back are shouting instructions to those nearer the front.

A professional mountain climber can celebrate his triumph over Mount Everest, but does this mean a paraplegic shouldn't celebrate just being able to stand?

No but it does mean that the paraplegic should not pretend that they know what it is like to climb Everest. They should not suggest that they care more about their families because they have stayed safe and sound at home.

When I first joined the forum I lurked and read all I could. I was facing transition and I was terrified. Suicide seemed the more likely option. I read posts by Kaitlyn, Melissa and others and to be honest I did not believe all of what they wrote. They said it was a tough road. Having followed their path I know they are right. From where I was initially I thought I understood. I had read so much. I was completely wrong I had no idea. Until you do it you have no idea. What is worst is that you have no idea that you have no idea.

But this conversation will go on and on. Those who will never transition fully , or do it so slowly that it amounts to the same thing, will continue giving advice to those who desperately need to and that is dangerous.

[Badtranny]

Eryn, are you changing your narrative on us? Because if I remember correctly, you were a committed 'middle pather' and now you are a careful transitioner?

Look, going slow and NOT transitioning is the smart way to go. Always, but even in this thread you are implying that you care more for your family than people who have transitioned despite having families. Doesn't anybody understand that point? You Eryn, have said many times that you can't transition because it wouldn't be fair to your loved ones, or something to that effect. You say you feel the same way as us, but you need to be careful about disrupting the lives of you and yours. Yet my friends have transitioned despite feeling the SAME WAY AS YOU!

People like you make a mockery of people like PaulaQ and Annie K. They both completely upended their lives resulting in losing homes and moving to different states. Both incredibly bright, passionate, level headed people yet they stopped talking and pulled the damn pin despite the cost, despite the pain. Who are you to tell them that they didn't love their family? You and others are absolutely on record with comments about not transitioning because of familial and/or professional obligations. By the way, they are both excellent reasons for not doing it, but my girls don't need to hear it. Do you not think they feel it? Don't you think they suffer some regret every now and then?

Further, I am not advocating for a TS only forum. I don't write for Paula and Annie and the other girls, I write for the newbies. I write for the people that are looking into the abyss. I honestly don't even know how to arrive at a forum that would be acceptable, but I am routinely disheartened by this one.

Also, Eryn, regarding the glass house comment, the analogy doesn't hold up because I don't pretend or portend that I have had any surgery other than what I have stated. A few of the girls on this board have seen me in Mexico and even more know me well enough personally to vouch for everything I've said. I'm glad you brought that up though because let's imagine that there was a Post-Op Forum. You may think that I would be sticking my nose in, but I certainly would not. I'm not a Postie, and I have a few very close friends that are, so I know those gals are dealing with stuff physically and emotionally that I have no idea about. Do they think that quitters like me are 'real' women? I don't know, and I don't care. Those girls are entitled to every feeling they have as far as I'm concerned, and I would never presume that they accept me as one of their own because I really really hate my penis, just haven't gotten around to it yet. They have done something that I won't do. My reasons are my own, but I still have a pickle and they don't. Those are just plain old facts. They are welcome to process those facts in whatever way suits them best.

At the end of the day, We are out. We have burnt down our old lives and now face every day with complete honesty about who we are and THAT is the only point I'm trying to make. I think this forum should be about celebrating honesty and authenticity. That's a worthwhile endeavor.

[PaulaQ]

Eryn, are you changing your narrative on us? Because if I remember correctly, you were a committed 'middle pather' and now you are a careful transitioner?

Eryn's on HRT now. And yeah, she flipped over to the dark side with the rest of us. Muahahaha! (Just kidding about the fiendish laugh part!) This is part of the reason I think this forum should be pretty welcoming to middle-pathers - because a fair number of them end up transitioning. Yeah, they say some stuff that is off base at times, usually out of fear. (Hint: Being non-binary isn't an easy way to stay in the closet. Actually being non-binary is generally much, much harder if you really live it openly, because NO ONE understands who you are. NO ONE.)

Look, going slow and NOT transitioning is the smart way to go.

Well, except when it isn't. Going slow and NOT transitioning would've yielded RIP Paula. Everybody is different. I mostly reach out to people here who strike me as future lead poisoning victims. I figure the rest will eventually sort themselves out and don't need to hurry.

You Eryn, have said many times that you can't transition because it wouldn't be fair to your loved ones, or something to that effect. You say you feel the same way as us, but you need to be careful about disrupting the lives of you and yours. Yet my friends have transitioned despite feeling the SAME WAY AS YOU!

Lucky her then. She gets a choice - or gets the luxury of thinking she has one. (The latter is something some of us discover - that we don't really have a choice.) Either way, time will tell.

People like you make a mockery of people like PaulaQ and Annie K. They both completely upended their lives resulting in losing homes and moving to different states. Both incredibly bright, passionate, level headed people yet they stopped talking and pulled the damn pin despite the cost, despite the pain. Who are you to tell them that they didn't love their family?

Meh. I never feel like anyone who tries it differently than me makes a mockery of me. I did what I had to do. Yeah, it sucked for my family, and my ex-wife and one of my kids hate my guts. It would've been worse for them (or at least my kids) if I'd committed suicide. That's always the worst choice for children - they are far more likely to attempt suicide themselves, and at the very least tend to suffer grave emotional harm after surviving a parent who commits suicide. (It would've been worse for my ex too - suicides don't pay life insurance, and dead people don't pay spousal support.)

So given two horrible alternatives - dead father or live mother (or whatever I am to them now), I chose the one that caused the least damage to them and to me.

But look, if someone else manages to do this with less dire choices than I faced, then I'm happy for them. I mean that. It just tells me they transitioned in time, before it got really bad, unlike me, who very nearly waited until it was too late. (It's only too late to transition when you are dead.)

The main thing I'd tell someone who moves kind of slowly, particularly if they do it out of fear, rather than calculation, is that dysphoria can become relentless, and my experience is that it's better to move purposefully through transition - stopping halfway through the minefield of transition is often a recipe for disaster, in my opinion and based on others I've watched. (For example, some things, like coming out, tend to have a limited window of opportunity - you can tell your story before everyone hears, or word gets out, and you lose control of your narrative.)

But none of that makes me feel one way or the other about my own transition. I just sort of ask questions, try to give advice, and if people don't take it and seem to struggle later, reengage with them. And hey, if what they try works for them and they live OK lives without racking up as many losses as some of us have, then I'm really quite happy for them. Personally, I'd be happy if the world was such that when my mom caught me as a kid, she'd told me "it's OK, you can be a girl if that's what you need to be." I hope we see a day like that someday - it's starting to happen a little bit.

I mean I'm sad about what happened, and I miss things about my old life. But I know what I faced was so far beyond me that resistance was impossible. So I am finally over guilt. (My ex threatening to sue me while I was writing a check to cover repairs for equipment I was selling for her did help alleviate that guilt some, I won't lie to you!)

I will say that comments like that - that I didn't care enough about my family - did hurt at first, when I was racked with guilt. A little bit of "there but for the grace of god go I" on the part of some of the folks making those types of comments would've gone done pretty smooth back then. (Actually the ones that really hurt me were the comments from some of the CDs who said "*sniff* Well... If you'd been just a CD, your marriage almost certainly would've stayed together!" These were made by people who didn't know my wife - I am quite certain that the day I admitted I did anything more girly than not watching pro sports, that my days of marriage were numbered. It was like they were saying it was somehow my fault I was like this. That really seemed unfair.)

I do think it's really hard to hear stuff like that when a person is starting out. I don't see that trying to avoid hurting your family is the same as making those types of comments though. I think putting others first when faced with GD is generally a losing tactic, but in general if someone wants to try various things to avoid making their life a total disaster, that's fine with me. I don't really get too worried about it unless they seem to have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel...

Do they think that quitters like me are 'real' women? I don't know, and I don't care.

You aren't a quitter. And of course we think you are a real woman - or at least I do. You know why? Because you told me you are one. And that's good enough for me. I've been with people with all different kinds of parts. At the end of the day, what's between your legs may have some impact on how you have sex with someone else, but it doesn't say a thing about who you are as a person. Bottom line - you are all girl as far as I'm concerned. Some girls have a penis, is all.

I think this forum should be about celebrating honesty and authenticity. That's a worthwhile endeavor.

OK, we do totally agree on this. I tend to look at the end result - is the person living an authentic life, as best I can tell? I don't have to agree with it, nor does it have to suit me. I look more for things like:
- dealing with the consequences of whatever you had to do to about your gender. (Not avoiding - dealing with them in some manner)
- altering their life somehow, preferably to a better state than it was before in some way
- especially changing who they are internally - letting their true self out
More or less the opposite of someone who makes completely fear based excuses for not doing something they desperately need to do.

Look though, this is a process, and even if someone gets kind of stuck for a bit, they can eventually get themselves moving forward again. Hopefully someone here can gently nudge them along. Example: "Um, look. You've been on HRT for what, five years now, and you say you wear "androgynous" clothing that's still women's clothing, even to work, but you aren't out at work? And you say you hide 'girl mode' by not wearing dangly earrings to work? Oh honey, this is Texas, and no regular dude wears earrings and carries a clutch purse to the lunchroom... You need to come out - they know already." (Don't laugh - I've had this conversation - for real. And when they did come out - it was - drumroll please - fine.)

Anyway, I'm not concerned if someone comes on here and says "middle path." "I'll never transition." "Wife and kids -- too important, can't do it!" because more often than people like to admit, "Started HRT yesterday..." follows... If it takes a person a while to beat down denial, well, it just does. That seems to be the way of this, to me.

edit: @Misty - just noticed your forum avatar. Bravo, I love it. I may argue with you about all kinds of stuff, but girl, you got moxie!

edit 2: I'll just say one last thing. The part that always concerns me with people who try to stay closeted for a very long time / forever is that the hard part of transition is learning to be yourself, and not wear a protective mask. Look, most of us needed the mask to survive in the world for a time. But when it's time to let it go, you have to do that. If you have leeway to minimize the damage this causes your life, great. But there's no way to learn how to live a new life without actually living it. Particularly if you are highly binary, switching from one mode to another is often intensely painful emotionally. People also underestimate the difficulty of this I think, focusing on the more obvious obstacles like "coming out", "medical transition", etc. It's often very difficult to let go of the old stuff that holds you back.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

To be honest I was going to avoid this thread like an uncharted minefield. However, I did feel obliged to provide my two cents and they can be taken for what they are worth. I consider myself TS and that was my call which wasn't based on some qualitative analysis of percentages/probabilities and other descriptive stats to define myself as such. I know I a woman and always was meant to be a woman . . . yeah it took 50 years to figure that out but some folks just need a bit of time. When I figured that out and accepted it, I took steps to deal with it in my own way. I tried the non-binary approach and in a sense I think it was just me holding on to what was comfortable (being a guy) but in the end it became confusing for others at work and for me in my day to day existence flopping between happy (being a woman) and sad (being a man). I came here because to be honest I was scared to death as finally pulling the pin on the tranny grenade (TM)was harder than anything I have every done in my life including combat. I got a smack down or two when I first came here but learned the ropes quite quickly: (1) Nobody here ever told me I could not be who I wanted to be. If I wanted to consider myself TS vice TG or whatever, that was my call; (2) respond, post, commiserate or whatnot but don't provide advice or comparative analysis on things you have not lived or don't have first hand knowledge (makes sense) ; and (3) this is a very personal thing.

Now I have gone as far as I can down the road without HRT or surgery and as I have maintained I don't feel the need and that is not to say some day I won't. However right now I do not. Does this mean I have transitioned to post-op? IMHO yes because I no longer live as a man, no longer consider myself a man and do not feel happy as a man. Could others see me as not TS because I have not pursued HRT, surgery nor aligned my birth sex with my gender legally? Possible but to be honest . . . I don't care because as I said in point number three of the things I learned . . . this is personal to the individual and that individual is me.

Keeping those things in mind while I may offer a congratulatory salutation for someone who posts about starting HRT, I would never dive in with my two cents about why they should or should not do so as I have no frame of reference to dispense such advice. Would I respond to someone looking for advice about coming out at work? Yes, because I have come out at work and understand the pitfalls of doing so. Would I respond to someone wanting to commiserate about how hard this can be? Well, that depends. I would provide discourse from my own POV regarding my own high and low points but I would never tell that person my way is the best way to handle things because my circumstances are fundamentally different.

In the end, nobody has come here (in my opinion) saying . . . psst I think you belong on the other side of the curtain sunshine, they have only asked that if you are going to participate in discussions, choose you words wisely and provide advice from a position of knowledge.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Eryn]

Eryn, are you changing your narrative on us? Because if I remember correctly, you were a committed 'middle pather' and now you are a careful transitioner?

Eryn's on HRT now. And yeah, she flipped over to the dark side with the rest of us....

Thank you for noticing, Paula, but let's not let the reality of my current status get in the way of Melissa's attack. It's a pretty good rant.

BTW, when I announced my decision here six months ago I received congratulatory replies and welcomes to the "dark side" from everyone in this thread. Well, there was one notable exception.

[gonegirl]

Here's whats confusing: when I read a post in the CD section written 3 days ago by someone who's supposedly transitioning (transsexual women and men transition) where they self reference as being in a secret society of cross dressers.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?232598-Trying-to-guess-if-someone-is-a-crossdresser&p=3825874#post3825874

Problem is, none of us wants to be recognized!

We're the most secret secret society, one in which we don't even acknowledge each other!

[becky77]

At the end of the day, We are out. We have burnt down our old lives and now face every day with complete honesty about who we are and THAT is the only point I'm trying to make. I think this forum should be about celebrating honesty and authenticity. That's a worthwhile endeavor.

I'm not sure about celebration, but I am pretty proud of myself for having the strength to see this through.

[PaulaQ]

Sorry for talking about you Eryn. You are a good example of what I'm talking about though. Many of us approach transition out of a place of fear. Giving people who say "I'll never transition!" space where they can say stuff, even if it's kinda wrong a little, before they realize "oh crap, I'm exactly going to transition!" is one of the things I think a forum like this can do for people.

My opinion is that most of the time, the arguments some of us make against transition are not with the person in the thread, but really with ourselves.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Maybe Eryn if you laid off some of the things you say in the future you will not get the response you did..

That's the bottom line...

[Eryn]

Here's whats confusing: when I read a post in the CD section written 3 days ago by someone who's supposedly transitioning (transsexual women and men transition) where they self reference as being in a secret society of cross dressers.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?232598-Trying-to-guess-if-someone-is-a-crossdresser&p=3825874#post3825874

#1 I was unaware that people on the TS path weren't supposed to converse with people on the CD section. I guess I'm a rebel! Where's my stars and bars?

#2. I do not think that most TS people want to be recognized as such in public any more than a CD. For me it is pretty much inevitable but I prefer it doesn't happen.,

Sorry for talking about you Eryn. You are a good example of what I'm talking about though...

I don't mind at all because you are fairly aware of what I'm about and reasonable in your comments.

Maybe Eryn if you laid off some of the things you say in the future you will not get the response you did..

That's the bottom line...

You're right, if I am silent I won't be commented upon.

However, is the point to silence anyone who has a view the least bit contrary to the one you wish to hear?

That would yield a bland conversation!

In some ways I have already been silenced, since I have chosen not to share minor milestones that I found significant to my transition progress because they would immediately become fodder for the naysayers. Nobody wants to achieve a goal and then be told that it was insignificant or invalid by some self-appointed arbiter of transness.

[Zooey]

#1 I was unaware that people on the TS path weren't supposed to converse with people on the CD section. I guess I'm a rebel!

#2. I do not think that most TS people want to be recognized as such in public any more than a CD. For me it is pretty much inevitable but I prefer it doesn't happen.,

I'm trying to stay out of this, but I think you're missing the point of the criticism in this specific case. It's not about conversing in the CD section, or about not wanting to be clocked. It's about using language that implies to readers that you are a part of the CD community, when you are also professing here to instead be a member of another, very different community with (generally) very different motivations and concerns.

I'm not saying you meant anything by it, or even that I care, but it is confusing language to use.

[Jennifer-GWN]

I've been biting my lip on this one and now it's bleeding. Ok... Generally I'm miss happy but if the only way to be considered as a true transitioner is to have sea of blood and personal carnage behind you then I guess I'm not a member of the transitioned club.

Have I had my personal and internal agony? YEP. Many years of it that led me close to suicide a year ago. Has MY transition using my view gone well? Absolutely. likely in part due to careful planning, good luck, and favorable environment to transition in. I acknowledge others have had or for those at some stage in the transitioning process might have a crap load of all kinds of issues. Can I offer perspective to others? Yep; and I know that ymmv applies here as well.

Is there carnage and blood behind me? Not really and I'm thankful for that daily and look at it as a second chance at life and I better make it a damn good one.

So here I am Hormonally female, Name Changed officially, Gender Marker Changed, Out EVERYWHERE. No hiding, no mixed mode, it's all girl time. Dangly bits intact with path forward to be determined. Not everyone's need to transition is driven solely by an utter hate for those dangly bits. Do I consider myself at the core a woman? Yes; damn straight I do and subsequently considered myself transitioned.

So I'll let the judge and jury decide if I am member or not and do/should I have a voice and opinion to share going forward. If the answer is no then I'll happily shut up go to my room.

This forum has been such a great help to me. I've read so many great threads with good responses and varied opinions that have help me sort through my own issues as I charted my path forward.

I fear this and a few other threads are taking us away from meaningful and thought provoking sharing and more into sparing in a boxing ring between each other on definitions and validation criteria.

So I'll ask where is that transitioning application and whose decided that blood and carnage is the test criteria attached. I thought this was about sharing experiences; while being mindful that sharing should be driven by experience and constructive questioning.

Are all these threads and this current state purely manifested by the recent person to remain nameless situation. If so I think it's time to move on. That particular situation did throw me for a loop as well but I'm not naive to think that this situation exists in many forms including trolls etc and eventually get weeded out. I think most of us here are mature from the point of view that they don't follow one particular persons view blindly, if so they have much bigger issues recognized or not by them.

Transitioning is, as someone tells me regularly, pretty much the most f'ed up thing someone can do and you better have either your shit together or a support system around you to help as you go through the motions... And everyone's path and timeline is personal to them and only them.

Rant over...Jennifer

[Eryn]

I'm trying to stay out of this, but I think you're missing the point of the criticism in this specific case. It's not about conversing in the CD section, or about not wanting to be clocked. It's about using language that implies to readers that you are a part of the CD community, when you are also professing here to instead be a member of another, very different community...

I'm not saying you meant anything by it, or even that I care, but it is confusing language to use.

It was only confusing to someone carefully searching through my posts to find a "gotcha" to use in this thread. I was obviously speaking as a member of the overall TG community when I used the word "we" in the MTF section.

[PaulaQ]

#2. I do not think that most TS people want to be recognized as such in public any more than a CD. For me it is pretty much inevitable but I prefer it doesn't happen.,

This is a whole n'other can of worms, and a good point. Some of us want to be stealth. All of us just want to be treated with dignity, as the people we are. I'm really about as out as a person can be, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't milk passing privilege for all it's worth in some situations. Of course many of us will never have that privilege - they are really the brave ones. (Actually, I think they are the most beautiful ones, too.)

I think it's worth pointing out that some of us end up needing a lot more courage than others of us, and some of our situations make various transitional steps easier or harder. This is why I try not to judge - there's just no way to know if someone has legitimate reasons to hesitate, or if they are just getting in their own way, something I also observe quite frequently, both in myself, and in other men and women I've worked with. (The latter is the main thing I try to help people with. Getting in the way of your own transition serves no purpose - but it's so easy to do it because of fear.)

To me, veracity is a process, just like transition. We all start out, almost all of us anyway, having this awful lie shoved down our throats until it nearly chokes us to death. It takes a while to hack it up, and often what comes out during that process isn't pretty. But in the end, we're OK.

BTW, I post on the CD section all the time. Indeed, I reach out when I can to local CD groups. Some of us start out down the CD path. Many of us don't, but some do. Some take a slow path going en femme in public, some barely CD at all, and totally in the closet at home. (That latter was me.) Some become desperate. Some come to a gradual realization. When I can help, I try to.

[Suzanne F]

Ok I tried to stay out of this but I just have to say something! First off I salute Melissa for championing living an authentic life. I am with her on that being the goal of this forum, supporting those who risk everything to have it. I was with her the other night and I can tell you that she passionately feels that women here who risk everything to have it should be exalted. For her, women who are not willing to risk everything should not be criticizing those that do. They should not comment on matters they haven't faced yet. I agree.

I too wanted to protect my family. However, it was inevitable that I would have to risk everything because I have been driven to be me since coming out. It has been an unavoidable force and could not be controlled. I thank Melissa for for helping me to see that! At times I did feel less than when I wasn't out at work. Yes there were practical reasons but there was also fear that had to be overcome.

Finally, I learned a valuable lesson in all of that. No one on this forum should have the power to make me feel less of a woman. If I can't take the criticism and either adjust or walk away then how can I hope to navigate an often difficult world. I am a woman and my opinion on that fact is the only one that matters. Transition is tough and requires tough women. I am out and will not go quietly into the night. Life is too short to wait any longer.

Suzanne

[LeaP]

I think I've re-read this thread 50 times trying to figure out how to address the myriad of (frankly) off-topic issues that have been interjected. I was successively intrigued, disturbed, confused, then disoriented. It doesn't help that I'm getting a cold and have missed 4 days of ADs. (Don't ask.) Then my head blew off. So, after retrieving it, screwing it back on reasonably tightly, then thinking a bit, I decided to simply answer the questions in the OP. I'm answering the rhetorical intentions, not necessarily the literal or implied questions. This will undoubtably be too long as it is, so I won't mince words.

Is veracity important? There are two kind of relevant content - information and advice. Information can be independently verified. Cites help. Personal veracity not required. Taking advice from unknown people of unknown experience and motives is foolish.

Forum for transitioners? Answered before, but yes - should be. Declared intention, in-process, or already transitioned are close enough.

Why is it difficult to make distinctions? It isn't. My answer is the same as the one above. The baseline of social transition is close enough for me. The other "distinctions," nuances, considerations, etc. being introduced are irrelevant to the OP. Arguing for the importance, presence, need, and so on of non-transition(er) considerations misses the point. Parenthetically, this need not take on any qualitative aspect. Unfortunately, the OP introduced that when talking about the "hard stuff," which begged for comparisons and objections. I say let it go in favor of advocating transitioners' unique needs. It's a tiny group and otherwise buried and lost.

Do timelines suggest progress? Yes. No action, intentions notwithstanding, no transition. I think the related at-risk point Misty makes is valid. IMHO, the actions that matter as real measures of transition progress are those impacting one's public life, i.e., despite the risk of adverse outcomes in private life when coming out there. I tipped the risk scale when I came out to (select) management at work. I'm going to push hard on the scale when I meet with a board member and press her for a job on the basis of her diversity statements while telling her I will transition on her watch.

Why are people allowed to say things like GD never goes away? A simple answer is lost in the non-transitioner argumentation being presented. Which is that transition is the only resolution for GD for those who must transition. This isn't tautological, it's fundamental in the medical literature and THE rationale for gender-confirming surgeries in particular. Here's the rub - the GD focus of the TS forum is the gist of the noise in that the forum isn't REALLY transsexual-focused at all as a result. For a double dose of the rub, add the fact that much of the "GD" discussion isn't about GD anyway.

Should coming out mean anything in this 'community' (forum)? ("Coming out" taken here as asking why transition should receive prominence.) You bet, because it takes discussion into considerations of public life. "Real life" isn't a good usage here. The inner life is real and important, just not relevant to the OP's emphasis.

[Badtranny]

Generally I'm miss happy but if the only way to be considered as a true transitioner is to have sea of blood and personal carnage behind you then I guess I'm not a member of the transitioned club.

Well, all I can say is I'm sorry if I am giving the impression that a transition MUST be awful to be authentic. I do NOT believe that, however, my experience has been different. My transition has been challenging but I have had it easier than some, and others have had it much better than me. Speaking for myself, I think it's wonderful that you have managed to avoid some of the trauma that many of us experience. I also think that it's rare and I want bad stuff to be talked about so people know what they're getting into ...potentially. The fact is, it won't make a bit of difference to people who are dead set on transitioning, (and it shouldn't) but hopefully we can help people who may be romanticizing the experience to avoid a rather costly mistake. Transition isn't for everybody.

So here I am Hormonally female, Name Changed officially, Gender Marker Changed, Out EVERYWHERE. No hiding, no mixed mode, it's all girl time.

and there you are, transitioned. Coming out is the "hard part". Coming out at work is the REALLY hard part. Changing your name is necessary to live a real life, and all the rest is just chemicals and surgery neither of which are necessary to live an authentic life.

Some people are not on the transition path, yet they live authentically and without secrets. They are out as cross dressers or gender queers and they live the life they want to live with no apologies and no regrets. Those people should be celebrated. A 300lb CD or trans woman who is out damn well deserves to be celebrated because as Paula mentioned, they are truly the bravest among us. Certainly braver than me. I had to move 4 hours north to the SF Bay before I could even contemplate coming out as gay. When I finally got my head straight and started transitioning, I still couldn't go full time without breasts and extensive face work. Sure I was out. I was telling everyone who would listen about my 'transition', but there was no way I was walking into that office without changing my face and to tell you the truth, my face was still much more masculine than I was hoping for. Some of us, need more work than others.

Yes transition is a very personal experience and we all have our own way of walking it but we also all have one thing in common; a determination to live as our target gender free of the hiding and sneaking and pretending that has shaded most of our lives.

Eryn may feel like I'm targeting her, and I can understand why, but I'm really not. I'm trying to change the zeitgeist here. I want to plant the idea to the next generation of transitioners (trans generation equals 3-5 years) that the only thing that really matters is honesty. Honesty with the world, but most of all, honesty with yourself. I want them to be intolerant of secrets and the closeted, I want everyone's goal to be coming out of the closet, whatever that may look like. To live the life that you want to live without fear and shame. Very few people will actually transition but that doesn't mean they can't still be free and surround themselves with like minded people.

Someday, I will grow weary of internet forums and blogs and I will be like the mist that burns away in the sun. ...but the seed that we have planted here will have grown into a new crop of rugged, brave souls who will not apologize for their brash decisions to live their lives with courage and authenticity.

[PretzelGirl]

Jennifer, great rant! Seconded!

Misty, I always think that someday I will grow weary of the forums. I have said it to some privately. But even the disagreements feel like arguing with siblings. I don't like that we are not agreeing, but I come back for more. Masochist. LOL

Another edit. I think the struggle I have is that I view transgender as an umbrella and I don't like to sort us underneath it. We are in this together. On Saturday I paid my dues to the local Tri-Ess for my eighth year with this group. They are trans*, they are beautiful, and they are my family. So with this exposure, and it isn't just that one night a month that I spend with transgender individuals with a story different than mine, it keeps me in the mindset where I don't draw these boundaries of who is who.