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Thread: Why veracity matters

  1. #1
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Why veracity matters

    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    Apparently the veracity of members is very important.
    It's confounding to me that so many believe that the veracity of members is NOT important.

    I guess I just need to know something once and for all; Is the TS forum supposed to be a support forum for people that are TRANSITIONING or not?

    Why is it sooooooo difficult to make a distinction between people that are doing the hard stuff and those who are not? There are no guitar forums where people who don't play guitar are allowed to pontificate on playing guitar. There are no motocross forums where people who have never raced are allowed to talk about what they would do in a race. Try it sometime.

    I will not support the closeted in their effort to pretend they are not closeted. The very essence of transition is about NOT being closeted. Yes I understand that we all have our own timelines, but a 'timeline' suggests a measure of progress does it not?

    Real? A picture of trans women out and about says nothing about transition. I know several people who may or may not be trans who go out 'dressed' all the time. Is that what this TS forum is about? Going out dressed? Outings? You wanna be out? Then be OUT.

    Why are people who are on record as not being out at work, not changing their name, not putting themselves at risk, allowed to come here and say things like "GD never goes away"? does it matter to anyone (except me) that there are trans women here who have put everything on the line just to be free? Does that mean anything to anyone? Are people who don't want to come out at work because it's scary as hell really in the same boat?

    I know why we are marginalized and discounted in real life, but why on this forum? Shouldn't this forum at least celebrate the people who would risk everything to be free? Does coming out mean anything in this 'community'?
    Last edited by Nigella; 10-14-2015 at 02:43 PM. Reason: circumventing the word filter is not permitted
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  2. #2
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    ...Is the TS forum supposed to be a support forum for people that are TRANSITIONING or not?
    "Transitioning" means "in the process of transition." Everyone here is at their own point of the process. Some are plodding along like the tortoise, others are sprinting like the hare. We have different knowledge bases and points of view, and most of us are cooperating to help each other achieve our goals whether they will occur in the next week or next decade. The validity of what is said by any of us is up to the reader.

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    As much as I agree with you, this is the TS forum not the Transitioning forum.
    Some TS will never transition but they still need somewhere to discuss their feelings.

    I have no issue with it or where someone is at, we all have our stories.

    The only way you would solve it is to have a 'Transitioning/Transitioned only' sub-forum, I'm not sure that would work either.
    My own preference would be for the TS section to not be linked to the new posts, at least that way people are visiting on purpose.

    We have safe haven but it's not used enough, if you only want input from TS then post there?

    Back to the OP, people on here seek Veracity because everyone is treated with suspicion.
    How do you expect someone to prove themselves?
    Meeting someone proves nothing, I met several Trans people that have not been full-time, just cause they meet up as a woman doesn't mean they are not still living most of their life as a man.


    Fraudsters are horrible and insidious but they win if we start to suspect everyone.

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    We have had a number of threads lately over authenticity, veracity, what should be posted here blah blah blah. Well, Melissa, you say what you think and I respect you for that, but it is coming straight back at you this time I'm sorry.

    We have Safe Haven. You want response from post or in transition TS only post it in there if you ask me. It's not used that much, that is OUR fault, not the people "who aren't doing the hard stuff".

    For me, the TS forum provides an access point for those who have a genuine wish to understand TS (noting also that I really don't like the term TS despite now being full time). Maybe they are questioning whether they are TS, maybe they are partners wanting to understand their transitioning SO, maybe they are CD, TG, Gender fluid, or whatever other annoying label we want to come up with but most importantly they want to understand. I will not turn them away and tell them "you just won't ever understand because your not TS". Yeah, sure, occasionally we get and imposter or a misdirected CD lost in the pink fog who thinks they want to play with the "cool" girls and guys, but for the most part they quickly drop off and rarely have an enormous amount to contribute. The really crass or dumb ones are weeded out by Tamara, Nigella and Rhianna pretty quickly as well. And sometimes, maybe, yes they need to see the TS forum to work out "crap, that just is not me!".

    If you don't like someone or think they are just having a bit of a fantasy either ignore them or just explain succinctly but nicely exactly why their post is not appropriate. IT isn't hard to be polite and is more likely to win us friends and support than getting hoity toity about whether they "should" be posting here.

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    Question for you Misty to help me understand the veracity of your comments and the stance that you always have.

    How long did it take for you to come out at work once you moved forward on your timeline? Did all the time prior to that moment make you any less of a TS than after that moment? Did the things you did up to that point group into the category of "hard stuff" or did that only happen after you came out at work?

    Seems that it is always a question that comes up to prove that what one has through is tougher than another. Why not just accept that it is all hard and not all people can understand what another has gone through because the process is so individualized?

    I almost see a sadness in the way it is received for transitioning. Hell the comment "do not transition unless you have to" inflects that it transitioning is not something to celebrate.

    Of course you will discount me because I am frozen with fear and do not want to face the TS syndrome. The steps I am taking do not mean anything to anyone ..... except me.
    Last edited by GabbiSophia; 10-14-2015 at 08:09 AM. Reason: name correction... sorry about that
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    I understand your concerns Misty. There is one thing that will be true about this entire site and that is that people are unverifiable. The extreme will give themselves away but others plod along.

    So sticking with the assumption that people are who they say they are... I have always read this subforum along with Body Issues. Maybe early on I would have replied at time or two, but I mostly read. Somewhere when I got into the more questioning area, I starting posting and replying. I can look back at my "New Threads Started" and see posts my here and the one saying "The Door is Open and I Am Stepping Through" is not the first one. I agree that we should all be able to post TS topics here. It is great that everyone can self identify, but you do get back to the problem that if someone is misrepresenting themselves even a little, you may not be able to know. We just have to be able to keep an open eye and consider all input appropriately. Safe Haven, to me, is the area where you can post and have another level of privacy. Only MTF Transsexuals are allowed there and that choice is by moderator standards. Of course a fraud can get in there too. It is impossible to have perfect verification.

    Then there becomes a problem of who is transsexual and who is another identity. I'll admit that my work in the community makes me more inclusive. I will take anyone at their word because that is what I advocate for is self-identification. Others may want to see something more tangible. The problem becomes, how much information about each of us do we need to post? I look at Sophia, Michelle, Eryn and I am not one to try and take their identity away. They have all been, at least what seems, upfront to us. I certainly believe all is at it seems as I don't see anyone putting themselves on the firing line like they have with their unique situations.

    I understand your trepidations. I am also guessing that when things are rocky, knowing your source can be important. What can we do? Not only are we on-line where nothing is verifiable (barring a list of who everyone has met), but gender identity is an internal sense of self. The external is gender expression. Transsexuality is linked to the identity, not the expression. So people's words are all we have to go with.

    Ultimately, what has the forum done for many? I came here when I had a file cabinet of clothing and everyone's help across all the subforums educated me and carried me through my discovery and my transition. That is what is important to me. Have we made lives better? Have we maybe saved lives? The imposters become less relevant in this context to me and the ones that might self identify to get "in" become obvious. Then all the context can be taken as we wish.

  7. #7
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    Some TS will never transition but they still need somewhere to discuss their feelings.
    I may be one of the few who agree but...(holding my tongue).
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  8. #8
    If only you could see me sarahcsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    It's confounding to me that so many believe that the veracity of members is NOT important.
    Veracity is important but veracity exists on a spectrum. How truthful must one be before one is considered 'honest'?

    And if a person deceives, how much deception is considered dishonest? Is telling a partial truth being dishonest?

    What proof do you need before you decide to acknowledge others? Also, what proof do you have that you are who you are?

    This is the internet for goodness sake. If people can lie to you in person, they can lie to you on the internet. Are you going to find a way to police this too?

    It is unrealistic to expect people to be honest all the time under all circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    There are no guitar forums where people who don't play guitar are allowed to pontificate on playing guitar.
    Yes, but one guitar player can still ask for proof of skill before they are willing to acknowledge each other. Soon, forum users will have to upload a youtube video to demonstrate they do indeed own a guitar and also their guitar skills before being allowed to join certain sections of a guitar forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    I will not support the closeted in their effort to pretend they are not closeted. The very essence of transition is about NOT being closeted. Yes I understand that we all have our own timelines, but a 'timeline' suggests a measure of progress does it not?
    And can you tell me the what is the very essence of 'eating'? When is 'eating' considered eating?

    The moment we fantasize about eating? The moment food gets plated? The moment food gets placed in the mouth? The moment the food is chewed? The moment the food gets swallowed? The moment it is broken down and absorbed? What is 'eating'?

    I will accept that transition, to you, in essence, is not meant to be closeted. But the word 'transition' simply means 'movement', 'to shift' or to 'change from one position to another'. For some, it could mean a transition from being closeted to being open. For others, it could something much more subtle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Why are people who are on record as not being out at work, not changing their name, not putting themselves at risk, allowed to come here and say things like "GD never goes away"? does it matter to anyone (except me) that there are trans women here who have put everything on the line just to be free? Does that mean anything to anyone? Are people who don't want to come out at work because it's scary as hell really in the same boat?
    Is it possible that you are projecting your own feelings unto others?

    As far as I'm concerned, you and every other members on this forum has equal rights to write and publish whatever you want, how are you being marginalized?

    Nobody is trying to undermine your sacrifices but you undermine other people's sacrifices when they mention a struggle different to yours.

    And yes, you made a lot of sacrifices, what else do you want? A cookie!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Shouldn't this forum at least celebrate the people who would risk everything to be free?
    Well said, but it sounds like you are more inclined to celebrate your own triumphs.

    A professional mountain climber can celebrate his triumph over Mount Everest, but does this mean a paraplegic shouldn't celebrate just being able to stand?

    It isn't what is being achieved that matters, but how it was achieved. To a professional climber, there is nothing harder than scaling Everest, but being able to stand is probably the hardest thing a paraplegic can do. Aren't both their feats equally heroic and worth celebrating?

    You are passionate Misty. For that, I admire you.

    But you have some thinking to do.

    Love,
    S
    Last edited by Nigella; 10-14-2015 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Quoted post edited
    "The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me" - Ayn Rand

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    Senior Member Eringirl's Avatar
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    While I am somewhat hesitant to comment....sometimes my mouth gets the better of me and I blurt something out....as in this instant.

    I owe so very much to this entire forum for providing sources of information, contributors providing questions and their viewpoints on numerous topics that I identified with (and still do), and a place to learn from the experience of others. I try to provide that same support and info to others when I can, cuz I know what it is like to be in that spot.....I am sure we all do at one time or another.

    I do have some frustration with people (not only on this site, but in others areas of support etc) who comment or provide "insight" to a discussion topic for which they have no clue what they are talking about. If one has questions, ask away. If one is looking for guidance, support or information, ask away. If one is looking for a place to vent or a shoulder to cry on, pull up chair and I am more that willing/happy to listen/comfort etc. But....BUT, don't tell me how to climb to the peak of Everest if you have only been to base camp. Don't tell me what it is like or how to navigate down 6 decks in a battleship at 150 feet underwater if you have only been on reefs at 40 feet deep. That being said, I totally celebrate the experience of someone, who for the first time, did a 40 foot dive on a reef and listen eagerly to their excitement and sense of accomplishment for them. My experience in no way diminishes want a triumph it is for them to do that. We celebrate that milestone with them enthusiastically. Don't tell me how hard it is to come out at work if you haven't done it. One can be empathetic, absolutely, and offer comfort or support by acknowledging/listening to the struggle. But don't tell me what it is like.

    I'll get off my stump now....
    Seize the day. Life is short, and you're dead a long time...just sayin' ...

  10. #10
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    ...and so most of the people that have replied in rebuttal are also people that are on record as not transitioning or "partially transitioning". Some thinking to do indeed.

    Also, after all of the embarrassing things that I've written here in service to those who may be ready to pull the pin, those who aren't doing so only see that I'm "celebrating my own triumphs"? What triumphs? Swallowing a lifetime of cowardice and coming out of the closet?

    Only someone who has not endured the pain of a public transition could possibly think that I am trying to aggrandize myself in any way on this forum. I post completely unaltered pics, I write as honestly as I can.

    You people can redefine what it means to transition here. It's of no consequence to me, and there will come a time when you will no longer be confronted by the likes of me, but remember this; You have to face yourself in the mirror everyday and you will have to reconcile the life you lead vs the life you want as you try to sleep every night. It's your closet. Your fear. Yours alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
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    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    There are some people who will maintain that the only people who have transitioned are those who have gone through full bottom surgery and that those who haven't had that experience lack credibility.

    What is that saying about glass houses?

    We're all in the same boat, Good ideas are good no matter who originates them.

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    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    I don't see this as an issue about whether one has transitioned or not...or even the degree of which. Instead, it is about why being truthful matters.

    I find it to be of the utmost importance. I want to read about what is real, not some sort of fantasy fiction...especially if perpetuated by someone who makes it their work over the course of days/weeks/months or even years to create some sort of false narrative.

    I want to learn about the trials and struggles of those who have taken the bold and necessary step into transition. I want to hear their good news even more. The overt downside tales break my heart.

    Fact of the matter is that all of these things, these truths, feed into our collective psyche and our personal decision making and validation process. Spreading falsehoods muddies the waters at best and can be downright damaging. Those people should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    We're all in the same boat Eryn, I'm just floating on a different pond. I'm not here to give advice on a process I know little of. Never have, never will. But when it comes to living on my pond, I'll share my story to anyone who cares to hear it.
    Last edited by Sara Jessica; 10-14-2015 at 09:19 AM.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    We're all in the same boat, Good ideas are good no matter who originates them.
    Some of us are outside the safety of the boat, swimming with sharks!

    And Sarahcsc you could do with learning what TS transition is, what you said is meaningless. You have been on here a while now, I think of you as one of the clever ones, what hope is there when no one truly listens to what is being said sometimes. People are so quick to read insults into everything.

    For the record, I used to want to prove my 'Realness' I guess I had something still to prove to myself and others. Since transition I couldn't give a toss, there is way too much difficulty in my life to worry what a few online posters think.
    Last edited by becky77; 10-14-2015 at 09:26 AM.

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    Misty who did you think you were going to get to respond to this? You are in effect diminishing what we have going on because we are at where we are.

    I am sure I will not see those that have had SRS saying that you have no place to talk either. Though according to you they should. I have read tons of your stuff and know what you have been through but that doesn't change what I am going through or what others are going through.
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    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    There are some people who will maintain that the only people who have transitioned are those who have gone through full bottom surgery and that those who haven't had that experience lack credibility.

    What is that saying about glass houses?

    We're all in the same boat, Good ideas are good no matter who originates them.

    Misty has transitioned and she didn't have grs, and had no plans or desire to. There are many others here that have transitioned and haven't had bottom surgery for various reasons, health being one. They all have come out and line their lives as female 24/7. There are others that are transitioning without the benefit of hormones or surgeries. They are out and starting to live their lives 24/7.

    You can't tell me that an individual that is " full-time except for.. " can comment on what's it's like in the work place and have any credibility.

    There was a discussion on Estradiol patches. I inject and have no experience with patches. I would be unqualified to comment on the efficacy or benefit of patches.

    The root issue as I see it is everybody makes up their own definition of whatever suits their particular situation.

    I will end with living 24/7 as female is way different than living part-time. And the experiences are different.

    All my comments and advice (if you want to call that) comes directly from my experiences. If I have no experience I refrain from commenting.
    "When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes

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    The obvious first: Pending aditional clarity from the administrators and mods on precisely what this means, this forum is for discussion of "transsexual specific items and for Transsexuals to share their experiences" and it is open to the participation of all CD.COM members. There are also certain topics listed in the rules that are designated as not appropriate to the forum. These two statements of purpose and content are also brought together in Nigella's TS Forum sticky. That's it. Transitioning, never mind support itself, is not mentioned. Transsexual is not defined. As best as I can tell (and I didn't search comprehensively), the support purpose aspect is either assumed or accultured here. It has been mentioned many times by admins & mods, of course.

    On the veracity point, I think experience matters. While someone without experience might offer good advice in a particular instance, their inexperience renders them unable to extend and adapt it. Coupled with the inexperience of the receiver (else why would they be asking), it makes such advice potentially dangerous. This is explicitly recognized in the case of HRT dosages, but the same principle applies to many other topics.

    Regarding transitioners, the TS forum's purpose is completely up to the site owners. Nonethless, I would support Misty's implied position. The realities of transitioning have hit home. The differences in support needs among the various peoples posting here (how's that for avoiding problematic terms?) are also apparent - even limiting that to those who are, in fact, fully cross-sex identified. Critical assessment factors for me favoring the transitioner support focus include the HIGHLY specialized nature of the topics, their risk and impact, the limited availability of such support, and that the numbers of transitioners, never mind the cross-sexed, are vanishly few. I add to the last point that topical expertise is concentrated in those few - often even on medical and scholarly topics - and that the noise factor from others in a less-restricted forum is hugely disproportionate.

    I should mention that I arrived LONG ago at the viewpoint that "transsexual" is not an identity or even a noun, though I still (unfortunately) feel compelled to use it that way in shorthand form. As far as I'm concerned, the term is best used as an adjective applied to a cross-sex identified person who has transitioned or is in the process of doing so. The reason isn't even semantic purity, as much as that is dear to my little heart. It is because that usage so neatly encapsulates the essence of transition, the concerns of which are irrelevant to others in the most personal sense.

    Still, if the forum were transitioner focused ...

    Where would that leave the truly cross-sex identified who are not transitioning and can or will not? I don't know.

    Where would that leave the questioning? I would say their best interest would be in a separate forum where the responders would also be limited to transitioners ... along the lines of the "Ask a Transsexual" thread.

    Where would that leave the gender-variant and others? Strictly, solely from the standpoint of transitioner concerns, I don't care. In answer to the oft-protested counter that alternative views from such on other solutions (e.g., middle path) are needed, I would say two things: transitioners already advise people to investigate solutions other than transition, and intermingling these populations and their views adds to confusion and not support. Someone investigating non-transition options deserves an arena as free from the distractions and dangers of the non-experienced as do transitioners. Transitioners typically have FAILED at non-transition solutions.

  17. #17
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Veracity +
    Specific Experience
    =Credibility and Gravitas

    whether you are ts or not, or whether you transition or not, its an open forum...

    I bet there are MANY more transsexuals of age (lets say 40+ ish) that have not transitioned... and i bet there are many people struggling with gender identity that are not transsexual..
    and of course the liar trolls, who may or may not be ts

    i don't think its right to make anyone struggling with gender identity unwelcome here...however i know i've had run-ins here, i also don't think its right to play pollyanna and sugar coat what real transsexuals going through real transition live through.

    and i think its wrong to sugar coat what NOT transitioning does to people too...and this includes families... the unrelenting nature of GD, the destructive nature of transition, the terrible isolation of years and years of ever increasing GD and and the "side effects" of living with GD are stark realities and so many of us avoided or repressed these realities to the point of hitting rock bottom... that's real... and its tiresome to get people that don't know this reality because they are not transsexual, or just havent hit rock bottom yet to tell me i'm too negative..
    and then later i hear that some of these people were FRAUDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry but i have feelings too... i was in some big "kerfuffles..hehe" and on the other side are people that are known frauds.. i post here because i care and want to help...
    i am incredibly open and honest...i have a depth of knowledge and experience...practical stuff...
    and from my perspective i hope people listen to the honest people with experience.. if they want meaningful feedback, its the only way..

    its hugely discouraging to think of the time wasted and if you really get analytical its the people that DONT KNOW anything that get hurt the worst...and frankly i don't think the mods really have much to do with it because they don't have any information that we dont... they have no tools to vouch for people..

    =======================================

    i recall when my kids were born talking to parents and non parents ...sometimes i'd hear non parents tell me what they thought i should do with my kids..

    apart from wanting to rip their face off for daring to talk about MY kids, i understood that they literally knew nothing that could help me....

    and if they did say something that helped me it was just an accident or something they heard from a real parent... that's what i see hear when "reasonable advice" comes from people that are lying about where they are...

    i think its the same thing here.... and just like when i was a parent i got to pick and choose what felt right to me and in the end no matter what we say and no matter what the rules, in a forum where its really just words people are just going to have DO THE WORK themselves and in doing so they will be able to protect themselves..

    i think based on years of being here the people that have been caught out as pure liars didnt do that much damage...they just wasted a lot of time... if you were caught up in those situations, i hope you didn't invest too much in what they said and i hope you can find the real person that was the real source of any advice that helped you or encouraged you...

    in the end if you want to be "encouraged" there are lots of other places where you can get generic positivity that works in any situation..
    I am real

  18. #18
    Silver Member Starling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    ...i think based on years of being here the people that have been caught out as pure liars didnt do that much damage...they just wasted a lot of time... if you were caught up in those situations, i hope you didn't invest too much in what they said...
    One small quibble here. I don't believe a liar's post ever did me damage, but having found that someone I shared a lot of personal information with in PMs and outside the forum was a fake and a phony certainly did. I'll be much more careful from now on.

    Lallie
    Time for a change.

  19. #19
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by stefan37 View Post
    Misty has transitioned and she didn't have grs, and had no plans or desire to. There are many others here that have transitioned and haven't had bottom surgery for various reasons, health being one.
    I understand this and I have respect for all, regardless of their degree of physical or behavioral transition. I wasn't thinking of Misty when I wrote my post. What I meant was that those who wish for a "litmus test" to validate participation here may well find themselves on the outside looking in of the test adopted isn't the one they had in mind

    How useful would a guitar forum be if it was limited to accomplished guitarists only? Eric Clapton might give some tips to Keith Richards and Mark Knopfler but would they be useful to someone in the middle of learning the art? I've found that the best teachers are those who are in the process of learning. They are not only fresh on what they have learned, they also remember the process by which they learned.

    I'm not an advocate of the "jump off the cliff" school of transition. I could have been "loud and proud," announcing my transition to the world and to hell with everyone else, but that would have been unfair to my loved ones who are supporting me so much. I'm trying to find a path that minimizes problems. I don't want to leave scorched earth and broken lives behind me, nor do I want to destroy my own life of there is an alternative.

    Someday, transition will be nothing extraordinary. It will be an everyday event on a par with getting married. That will be a happy day.

  20. #20
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    I'm not an advocate of the "jump off the cliff" school of transition. I could have been "loud and proud," announcing my transition to the world and to hell with everyone else, but that would have been unfair to my loved ones who are supporting me so much. I'm trying to find a path that minimizes problems. I don't want to leave scorched earth and broken lives behind me, nor do I want to destroy my own life of there is an alternative.
    you fundamentally misunderstand why transitioners transition....

    your experience is valid and real...but its irrelevant to "advocate" for anything other than living an authentic life for each person..

    i guarantee that if you felt what i felt...you wouldn't be going on about being unfair to your loved ones... that's just the way it is...

    disparaging words like "announcing my transition to the world and to hell with everyone else" provide insight to your attitude..
    Calling something the "jump off the cliff school of transition" is another one...

    I don't call what you are doing the
    I decided to live a meaningless and empty life in the wrong gender because i'm weak and afraid school of non transition
    or the I decided to not transition because actually I'm probably not transsexual school of non transition

    transitioners do not advocate for transition...they explain what it is and what it means to people... your views of what it means take second place ..
    I am real

  21. #21
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    Hmm yep that is my school.. Never have heard it put that bluntly but hell call it what it is..

    Hmm an outcast of the outcasts ... Never thought I would end up there..
    Professional thread killer.

  22. #22
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    Kaitlyn, I know that you are advocating for an open forum. Yet I have to go no further than your response to see, yet again, the fundamental problem with the openness of the forum playing out as if you address Eryn's response! I'm not suggesting that the solution is obvious. The problem certainly is, though!

    Eryn, I do expect transition will become easier in the future. The statement that it would become an everyday event or as common (in the acceptance sense) as marriage is quite a stretch. The condition is too rare and it twists peoples heads around a bit too fast and hard to ever reach that point.

  23. #23
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    Lea the tongue and cheek in your response to Kaitlyn falls short for me. I think her harsh way of saying it might be better than sugar coating it all the time. This crap is real and it sucks and at times I think I is needed. The one thing is though is that she didn't invalidate anyone while saying it and that is the difference .

    And I for one am tired of high and mighty transexuals invalidating what I am going through because I am walking a different path.

    This is why there is no community in this..to many high and mighty
    Last edited by GabbiSophia; 10-14-2015 at 03:21 PM.
    Professional thread killer.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadTranny
    Why are people who are on record as not being out at work, not changing their name, not putting themselves at risk, allowed to come here and say things like "GD never goes away"? does it matter to anyone (except me) that there are trans women here who have put everything on the line just to be free? Does that mean anything to anyone? Are people who don't want to come out at work because it's scary as hell really in the same boat?
    Why do we allow cisgender people on here at all then? Such people have no firsthand experience with the things we go through.

    I think there are really two issues at play here, that we are conflating:

    1. People who aren't exactly who or what they say they are.

    2. People who comment on stuff they haven't gone through yet, or who are taking a very different path than the typical one taken here.

    For #1, there are two reasons I can think of for someone to misstate who they are:
    A. They are stealth, but need the fellowship a group like this offers, something they DARE NOT do in real life, or that isn't available where they live. Someone like that would surely use fake name, fake picture, and lie their ass off about everything they do, and their location to keep themselves safer. I sure as hell would!
    B. They really are fake. They may be trolls, chasers, or simply some *really sad* person who wants to be on the top of the heap of a trans forum by pretending to be a stealth, long transitioned trans woman. I can't imagine how this would seem worthwhile to anyone, but there are some weird people out there.

    Obviously people who are category 1-B are suspicious, and should be gone. The thing is, how do you differentiate between 1-A and 1-B?

    For #2 - There are plenty of white, privileged, extremely well off, conservative, highly-opinionated trans women who despite having massive "been there, done that" credibility, are still so entrenched in all the privilege they managed to keep, sometimes toxic, and sometimes so screwed up that I would tend to give more credence to the advice of the newbiest newb on the forum, honestly offered, than their advice.

    Examples I've heard (not here): "I don't understand trans women who would be with other women! What kind of a woman does that?" (said to a trans lesbian), "We need to get some makeup on you, honey!" (Said to a femme gender queer person), "Of course you'll be wanting to get GRS!" (said to everyone - many of whom will never be able to afford GRS, or who simply really don't need it), "When you talk to your employment recruiter about being trans, you need to stress... " (Who the frack cares what you need to stress, this was said to a room full of women NONE OF WHOM will probably ever be in a position to use a recruiter...)

    I've seen people who transitioned post retirement - sidestepping a whole landslide of issues most of us deal with. Hey, I work remotely, and while I did transition on the job and have issues, I didn't have the "in your face" issues most of us deal with. Are either of those perspectives invalid? No, as long as the person giving them knows how to explain their experience as they lived it, and shut their pie-hole when they are criticizing someone for having a hard time with a problem at work THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH THEMSELVES.

    The problem with this type of credibility is that all of our experiences are only limited to ourselves, and to some extent indirectly, to other trans people we might know personally. Knowing a LOT of trans people might help one have more perspective - unless they were more or less all of a type. Sometimes the answers that are right for us are just wrong for someone else.

    There are a number of implicit assumptions on this forum that many of us seem to have:
    1. We're highly binary. (Not all trans people are.)
    2. We're strongly identified as female. (Again, not all trans people are.)
    3. We have generally high degrees of GD - many of us would be pushing up daisies had we not transitioned.
    4. We need some type of medical transition to align our bodies with our minds and mitigate GD.
    5. We need to socially transition - but there is a gender role (woman), that fits us well.

    There are plenty of trans people who need support, but who don't fit these assumptions. I fit them pretty well. Lots of us here do. But there are plenty of trans people who don't fit them, or who aren't ready yet to deal with various aspects of transition.

    Also, this is not a fast process. I went through it relatively quickly I think, going from "coming out to myself" to "post-op" in about 2.5 years, with a bit over 2 years of medical and social transition. I got through what I got through relatively quickly because I'm FORTUNATE. (And if I had been less fortunate, I'd almost certainly be dead.) Some people are more constrained by their situation or resources. Some people simply don't seem to need to do as much, or just need more time. Some people are simply really afraid, and it takes them longer to go through everything. People who are in some intermediate state of transition still need support, and can still have valid opinions, and definitely have valid experiences to share.

    I feel like the best type of veracity for this particular forum is that of people who can honestly relate their own experiences, without assuming they are anything special or of any particular significance to anyone other than themselves. People who are really for real, as much as possible (we're all human), with how they feel and who note things like "well, this part was easy for me, but I'm really privileged because of _____", or "I had a hard time with this - but my situation was ______".

    So I guess if we want to define this to be the "highly binary identity aligned, highly gender conforming, male to female, medical, legal, and social transition forum", (this is pretty much the effective definition of "transsexual", imo), then I guess only giving credence to people who fit that model is OK. But I think it's a poor way to support trans people in general, and there plenty of people who need way more than what the CD forum provides, yet fall short of doing everything many of the others of us have done.

  25. #25
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    Who's invalidating you Gabbi and how?
    What's with the High and mighty talk?

    From my own personal experience once you transition things change so dynamically that it's like you move onto another level, that level shouldn't be viewed as better, just another level that leaves you with a change of perspective where you no longer relate to those that haven't crossed over.

    It's like learning to swim or riding a bicycle or learning to drive a car, those that are in the learning stage are absorbed in it. Those that have gone beyond that stage are just getting on with it and lose connection with the learners.
    We all remember what it was like struggling as learners but our feelings have moved on to other challenges.

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