My boyfriend won't tell me the truth

[Tracii G]

Hi Tammy you sound like a pretty understanding person and he is lucky in a way.
The dating site thing like others have said is more of an outlet IMO.I have done that myself but I was not in a relationship.
I do have an issue with you "finding" his clothes stash and going thru his phone "finding pics" Honey that is called snooping and not a very nice thing to do.How would you like him snooping in your stuff trying to find "dirty" little secrets? Shame on you.
He is scared and at 24 being "outed" is by far the worst thing that can happen. He will lose friends and possibly family if they found out he likes to CD.
He is in denial and will do anything not to be discovered.
I have had partners snoop in my stuff and it has caused me to walk out on what could have been a great relationship.
Good luck breaking the ice because it looks like he doesn't trust you either and can you blame him?
I hope you two can work things out I really do.

[Rhian]

If he's on a dating app I imagine there is a sexual element to his dressing. Try giving him something of yours to wear next time you are intimate and it should show him how comfortable you are with him dressing. If your not comfortable with him dressing while you are intimate you may just need to ask him bluntly why he has been wearing your clothes.

[NicoleScott]

Yes, Tammy may have some explaining to do regarding how discovery was made. But that doesn't remove the elephant in the room.

[Mayo]

Others here have suggested that people may go on dating sites to flirt or present their other side without risk but, to be honest, there are tons of chatrooms and adult hosting sites out there where one can 'put on' a female persona or post pics (with face blanked, even) so this doesn't ring true for me (I've done both). I'm inclined to think the dating site is for some sort of hookup, even if he may not actually have done it yet. This may present a risk to you in terms of STIs, and if he really is denying his CDing and/or bisexuality then he probably would not be thinking about safe sex and might even deliberately engage in risky sex as a form of self-punishment or self-shaming. I'm not saying this is the case, but that it might be.

I think you may need - perhaps not immediately, but soon if he doesn't make changes - exercise some tough love. You need to tell him that you accept that he is a cross-dresser or possibly even thinking of transitioning. You need to tell him (if you're agreeable to it) that you might consider an open relationship if he needs to explore other aspects of his sexuality as long as he makes the effort to make sure that you are both safe. You need to tell him that you will not tell his secrets (even if you were to break up!) and that you want to support him, but a relationship is based on trust and that you may not be able to stay with him if he is putting your health at risk and if he can't be open with you about this. You need to tell him that if he won't talk about it with you then he needs to see a counsellor and that you would like to meet with the counsellor too (at least once) to discuss your concerns - either with him or without him. If he can't agree to any of that within a reasonable time frame (6 months?) then you will need to seriously think about ending the relationship (but definitely say that you don't want to). He sounds as though he has some major denial issues and I think that this (not the CDing, not the bisexuality, but the denial and inability to be open with you) is a serious problem if not addressed soon. If he can't sit down and talk with you face to face, you need to say this in a letter at least.

Maybe this is the right way to go, maybe not, but it's something that only you can decide. I hope he listens to you and that you can both work it out.

[Tammy494]

Thank you so so much for all of your replies, it's giving me a lot of insight on the situation. I appreciate everybody very very much.
I will get more into details with the dating site. As I said in my first post, there are other things that have happened that I haven't written about.
It began before I even found the pictures. I had gone on his phone months before in the winter to check something and saw that he had a dating app and kik. I demanded an answer. He told me some bullshit and I brushed it off. Over the past 4 years I've caught him flirting with 2 different girls on his phone but he never met up. They would ask to hangout and he never would. The one time he's ever cried was the second time I caught him talking to a girl and he said his friends give him shit for being in a relationship when they go out and that he has low self esteem and that he doesn't deserve me.
So basically the trust has been broken before. But after the last time when I initially found the app but no pictures, I stopped going on his phone because I realized it is an invasion of privacy.
I found these pictures by myself, in my room on MY phone. I downloaded the app because my gut must have told me too. At first I thought I didn't see anything but THEN.... That butt looks familiar, so does that room, so do those clothes.... They were uploaded 20 hours before I found them. This app tells you when somebody views you and although I used a fake name I think he knew something was wrong when a weird name KEPT viewing his profile.
The thing is, I never thought he was gay. He was the one who defended it before I even accused, saying I think he's gay or something. I never got that vibe from him he's always been very into me, but maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too? Or maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

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For the record, I am very much not okay with being with a bisexual man. No offense to anybody, it's just past my comfort level. I'm also definitely not okay with an open relationship.

[mechamoose]

Honesty trumps everything.

You can't lie to yourself, and you can't lie to your mate. Even if it hurts, *especially* when it hurts. That is when it matters.

- MM

[mykell]

Hi Tammy, welcome! I'm a genetic female like you.
There is also a private section for GGs (genetic girls, a.k.a birth females) that you might want to join too, for support. The details are here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...f#faq_gg_forum

i think it will benefit you to apply to this forum, i think he is scared and confused but getting real about it will be advantages to you both, since society presumes we are gay he may too, all the more important that he join in here and learn about himself with folks like himself.....

edit:
look this is about him, print it out, show him its OK, he is not the only one like this, it validates your love for him, it establishes good intent and love from perfect strangers, it will let him know he will be OK in the end, however far down the rabbit hole he goes he is not the first....its in the open already, an honest conversation has to be had....

28,866 members and counting, he has to have something in common with someone?

[~Joanne~]

Until your BF becomes comfortable with all of this his self, the wall, barrier, or whatever you want to call it will always be up. It won't come down for any reason and maybe not pushing it would be the best advice. At some point every one here denied they were a CD. We have purged and tried to stop to no avail. I assure you, we didn't ask for this, it chose us not the other way around.

I didn't accept this myself until a couple of years ago and I am almost twice his age. at 24 he's probably really struggling with this especially because your in the picture. He's probably thinking the relationship is getting to a serious point after 4 years, I am talking about marriage, and is probably fighting with his self even more. I am not saying you shouldn't be in the picture I am just saying it's adding a lot more pressure to him. Especially now that he knows you know.

Coming out of the closet as CD in time is one thing, being forced out is another. When I told My SO, it was out of fear (and a long story itself) I knew I had to tell her and believe it or not, it just got better but he's not to that point, he's not ready. A lot of sister's here still haven't told their SO's out of the fear of losing them, being rejected, the humiliation, and a million other thing s that run through our minds when trying to keep it secret.

It's not that we don't want to tell our others, the thoughts of being accepted and having a supporting SO is like hitting the lottery to us but we don't live in a perfect world so we know that telling anyone of this has the potential to ruin one's life completely. Once the cat is out of the bag, there's no putting it back.

Ok right here your buying into the whole CDing means the person is gay misconception held by the population as a whole, and it really is one of the main reasons most CD's never tell their SO's about their dressing.

maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too?

Most of us are heterosexual males. We don't understand the draw of female clothing, the need to try these things on or the continued need to explore this side of ourselves but the one thing that very rarely changes is our sexual preference. Yes, some find that they are more than just a CD and it does change but for most of us it doesn't.

I wish I could explain to you as to why we do this but unfortunately we don't even have those answers. It's one of those things we have struggled with our whole lives, and still do, and probably will never find that answer.

maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

I am sure most of us have been here also. Confusion is your best friend when your a CD. You ask yourself "Why" all the time. In time though you just learn to accept this and your BF isn't there yet being as young as he is. I understand you want answers, you need answers, you just want him to be open about it and to trust you with what is probably the biggest secret of his life but he wants the same thing too. He wants answers he'll never find. No therapy in the world is going to help him find them either.

Just like I just said that most of us are heterosexual, I will also say that most of us THOUGHT when we first started experimenting with women's clothes that we were gay also. It's how we were shaped to think by society as a whole. Once you go outside that box of thinking though you really do realize that your hurting no one, you should have the same freedoms everyone else does to express yourself and that when you start accepting this and it can move forward.

[Stephanie47]

I'm not going to revisit the advice that precedes my comment. He's 24. You're 21. You and your boyfriend may be able to work these issues out. Maybe not. Just remember you must be true to yourself and look after your best interests and happiness. You cannot save a relationship by yourself. In your relationship I see in him a lack of maturity and commitment. Some men, whether they wear a dress or not, will never hold their girlfriend or wife as an equal. They will be dismissive of their women. It is not adequate in a relationship with a man that he is liked by all others. It is not adequate that everyone thinks he is sweet and has a good sense of humor. You need to consider how he treats you. You can bet your last dollar that he is not going to discuss his feelings with anyone else, if he will not discuss them with you. And, if he will not discuss them with you, you're going to be what many men consider their girlfriends and wives to be....package..a possession.

Be true to yourself.

[Debra Russell]

Set out some clothes tell him you understand and see if he would like to have a "Dress up Party" - help him do his makeup - tell him he's pretty and you love him for who he is ,,,,,, who knows .... maybe it could be a good thing.....................................Debra

[ReineD]

Hi Tammy,

Two things:

I read your OP again and noticed this:

But when he got home he still didn't tell me the truth. He avoided it and opened up to me about how depressed he's been for years and talked about all of the pain that he holds inside. It broke my heart that I never thought he was anything but happy. So again I let it go. Months down the line now, I still don't trust him one bit.

I think you let it go too soon. He does know that you found his clothes. The key here is "all the pain he holds inside". I think this was an opening to let you in. You might want to revisit the conversation from this point of view and ask him to tell you more about his pain. Tell him that you understand how difficult it must be for him to tell you about his feelings and the crossdressing, but he needs to know there are a lot of men who do this for lots of different reasons and they are not crazy. You are a couple now and there are certain things that have a huge impact on intimacy, that cannot be ignored.

That said, he won’t be able to tell you why he does this. I’m guessing that it is sexual for him at this point, and he thinks it is a weird and somewhat shameful sexual kink, especially if there is conflict between this and his sexuality with you.

Is everybody suggesting that I wait it out a little longer even though I don't trust him and it tears me apart?
The dating site is just another one of many unexplained things. I just truly in my gut do not think he is cheating on me or intends to. My own theory is that he's so confused inside and perhaps he posted these pics without his face to get approval from strangers without giving himself away. I hope that's the case anyway. I'm left to draw my own conclusions...

Waiting it out will only make things worse. It's not a good idea to draw your own conclusions because it is very likely you will get it wrong.

The sexual urges related to the CDing can be very powerful. You don’t say what type of dating site this was, if it was a site where CDers hook up? Was it a dating site or an image hosting site with profiles for CDers to meet online and engage in cyber fantasy together in private? A lot of people feel that online fantasy interaction is not cheating because the people involved do not meet in real life. But, it is still sexual energy that is directed outside of your relationship (like reacting to porn) and if you are not OK with your bf sourcing sexual gratification outside of your relationship then you need to let him know.

I’m doing a lot of guessing here because I don’t know the details (I'm getting my cues from the term "dating site"), but fundamentally, things won’t get better between the two of you until you find a way to bring everything out in the open with your bf, without any judgment. Tammy, if you sweep this under the carpet for fear of upsetting the status quo, your relationship will stagnate. I know that bringing this up again is hard to do.

Does he know that you found pictures of him dressed on that site?

[Infused]

Good for you for being so accepting and making the effort to keep your relationship. I just want to add something regarding the denial. It is difficult to explain something when you don't understand it yourself. I've made progress understanding myself, but when I really ponder on it, I still come up with more questions than answers. I wish that I had someone to talk with and help me figure myself out. Hopefully he finds the courage to be open and talk honestly about this.

[ReineD]

The thing is, I never thought he was gay. He was the one who defended it before I even accused, saying I think he's gay or something. I never got that vibe from him he's always been very into me, but maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too? Or maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

I typed my response above without reading page 2 of this thread. Sorry.

There are lots of fantasies about being with men here. Any thread that has "dating" and "men" in the thread title gets thousands more hits than other threads. Yet most CDers are hetero. It's more about the fantasy of being a sexually alluring woman (and using the fantasy guy as a prop) than actually having an attraction to males, although we do have some members who are gay or bi. If your bf became upset when he thought you were wondering if he is gay, he probably doesn't intend it to take the fantasy to real life physical experience.

It still gets back to the same thing though. Does he source a greater amount of sexual excitement with the fantasies than he does with you and even if he is equally into you, are you OK with having this sort of competition.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Tammy, It sounds like shame and embarrassment on his part.

[Mayo]

As has been stated, the assumption that CD = gay is just a stereotype and more likely to be false than true. Unless you know he's talking to other guys then you don't have any idea at this point if he's bi or gay. Who his intended audience for those dressed photos might be is at the moment unclear (though I have difficulty believing that it's other women). Frankly, he may not really know himself but ultimately people need to figure these things out for themselves. I understand where your comfort level is about non-hetero sexuality, but it does complicate matters a bit in terms of unconditional acceptance: you're in the position where you have to say that you love him and accept him if he's a crossdresser but you won't be able to handle it if he's not absolutely straight.

Ultimately, for a relationship to survive and thrive, people need to be comfortable with who they are themselves (which he definitely is not) and with who their spouses/SOs are, otherwise there will be conflicts. These things need to be gotten out in the open for your relationship to succeed, but at the same time you (both) have to realize that doing so might bring up things that could cause the relationship to crash. You just have to read these forums to know how much anguish some of the people here have gone through. The fear of loss is a scary thing that keeps people hanging on, not being open, and ultimately making choices that in the end are not the best ones for themselves or for the relationship. (I speak as someone who got married when I shouldn't have because I didn't have the guts to say no and be honest about my true feelings and then stayed in an abusive relationship for a decade because I didn't have the guts to say no and leave.) In the end, if the two of you turn out not to be compatible, isn't it better to know sooner than later? Please note that I'm not saying that you two aren't going to stay together - I'm just saying that you need to recognize that the possibility exists and work together to make the relationship survive if it can.

It seems that he needs individual counselling for his gender issues - whatever they may be - and the two of you could use some couples counselling as to how to deal with whatever comes up (including his inability to be open and honest with you) in the most constructive way possible for you both. I hope it works out for you both in the end.

[Pat]

I never got that vibe from him he's always been very into me, but maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too? Or maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

Confused at his age? Absolutely. 100%. But it was in the days before information was widely available and the subject was *never* discussed in a positive way. He's fortunate to live in these times when there are sites like this and a tiny minority (numbers say 0.3% of the general US population identifies as transgender and not all of those people are crossdressers.) can find each other and help and support each other.

Bisexual means you're attracted to males and females. It doesn't mean you're promiscuous and it doesn't mean you have to act on any particular attraction. So living with a bisexual man isn't as much of a challenge as many women fear. I've been in long-term, monogamous relationships with women, was married for 20 years with no infidelity on either side. I've had committed and non-commited relationships with both sexes -- other than the anatomy of my partner I don't see my relationships as different than traditional ones.

[Mayo]

This is also true. Just because someone has bisexual interests doesn't mean they have to act on them. On the other hand, some people feel strongly enough about it that they do feel that need. This is something he needs to figure out (if it's even an issue, which hasn't yet been established). So, even if it's true, it may not be a problem in terms of fidelity, but whether the possibility that he's potentially bi would be a big problem for you 'just because' (even if it's never acted on) is something you may need to deal with if it does come up. Whatever the issues turn out to be, I can only say that it will be a challenge for you both. Good luck.

[RADER]

For the record, I am very much not okay with being with a bisexual man. No offense to anybody, it's just past my comfort level. I'm also definitely not okay with an open relationship.

Tammy:
maybe it might be time to cut your losses. If you have tried to talk with him, and he refuses,
You have seen that he can not be trusted, and you suspect that he might be on this dating site.
Then You might think of looking toward finding a new interest.
I understand the leaving him would be very hard; After all you invested a lot of time with him,
Spent some happy times together. But if the two of you went further in a relationship, You could
be hurt a lot more if one day you came home and found him with an other person.

By your post, you sound like a dream come true to most people on this forum. You deserve a lot
better treatment. I treated my wife like a Queen, I loved her very much, and she also in return.
We had great respect for each other, and now even after her passing, I still act in accordingly as
if she was still here. I do hope you find your happiness, weather with (HIM) or someone else.
I hope also that finding the Forum, helped you in your endeavors.
Rader

[Laurie A]

Hi Tammy -- thanks for coming to the forum and asking. Your guy is fortunate to have you even if he doesn't know it yet. A closeted crossdresser has years of conditioning to hide his behavior and it's probably backed up by as many years of self-loathing. He's probably afraid to come clean about it both because he doesn't understand it himself and because he can't imagine how anyone could love him if they find out about this awful vice (in his mind.) You're a total hero if you ride this out. It seems like you're saying the right things, you just need to crack through the shell. Maybe you should encourage him to come here and read a bit -- find out he's not alone; he's not broken and he can be as loved as anyone else.

I completely agree with Jennie! I once read that one of the reasons that cross dressers are so ashamed is that they are deeply invested in their male persona. He's probably spent years trying to bury and repress an irresistible urge. The worst insults we were conditioned to as boys were "sissy" and most anything perceived as feminine behavior. Those memories are sometimes deeply burned into our self evaluation.

Hang in there and be strong, if you love this guy, I hope you will be able to work this out.

[NicoleScott]

All the speculation: the box of panties, does he have a panty fetish? The dating site, the photos. What do they mean? Is he a guy who likes to dress up (a CDer) or see himself as a woman? Hetero, bi, gay? All this speculation shows what the problem is and what needs to be done. In the OP Tammy said "without the truth my mind runs wild thinking of all the possibilities." She needs answers, not more time to work on him. Truth now.

[Amy Fakley]

My own theory is that he's so confused inside and perhaps he posted these pics without his face to get approval from strangers without giving himself away...

That sounds plausible. All you have to do is take a glance through the picture & video forum here to find countless examples of many of us doing that exact thing. Heck, it took me something like 3 years hanging around here, before I got the guts to show my face. I sought faceless validation too many times to count, myself. It looks creepy, and shocking ... at the end of the day, it's kind of a rite of passage for our tribe, I think.

Though the fact it was a dating site ... I guess you have to judge context. Was he trying to line up a hook up / cheating type situation? If so, that's far more of a concern than the dressing, I'd think.

One other thought I'd like to share is this ... understanding this from the perspective of "embarrassment" or "confusion" is accurate, but it's more of an aerial view from ten thousand feet. You mentioned he seems irritable, socially distant ... as if he is fighting an epic internal war.

If he's anything like me at that age, he totally is. In more ways than you can possibly imagine. You have to remember that the culture most of us grew up in doesn't regard this as quirky or unusual. It's considered mortally shameful. You cannot imagine the lengths we go to, in order to not only hide this from others, but to hide it from ourselves ... to enable us to get along in a world that does not condone us and has spared no opportunity to make that point clear to us, since before we even had the words to describe it.

Ironically, the thing that will begin to make things better for him is someone like you. But before he can let someone else in, he's gotta make peace with himself, and that just has to come in its own time. I don't think you'll have much luck rushing that.

Same with going to councelling. If he's not ready for it, he won't want to go. He's got to be in that place already.

You absoloutely deserve for him to be honest with you, even if he's not ready to let you in and talk about it, you deserve an end to the deception.

I hope he decides to let you in, but that might take some time. I was married for 17 year with kids before I finally came to that place where I was ready to let my wife in. You guys are so young, and he is so.lucky to have someone like you ... that being said, don't be afraid to do the right thing for YOU, if this doesn't go somewhere positive in a reasonable time frame.

[Lisa85]

Wow no wonder the 20's are so hard and most don't become adults until 30's.

What are the needs of this age?
-- discovering a career
-- discovering what is liked and disliked
-- wondering what a long term relationship really means
-- is long term better than short term?
-- can I say what I think and feel, or will I be critized
-- if I show weakness, am I less than a person...
etc

These are not light questions and it is normal to have ups and downs dealing with them.

HE
-- testing rules about dressing, can Halloween be more than one day a year
-- am I making a mistake by staying around
-- can I safely explore other options before I really commit
-- can I reveal weakness without wrecking all

SHE
-- snooping is OK, but hiding is not
-- unsure if costume dressing is ok
-- sounding like attack mode and surprised when target draws back
-- unsure about other potential relationships in his life


Where to start? Everyone needs a safe area that will not be invaded. He needs sometimes to stash stuff and feeling until it's safe to share. You need to be able to share more without feeling your needs are being ignored. You are young. the biggest constant is not where you are now but how you adapt to changes.

Letters and long notes are not a good method of sensitive communication as they can be misunderstood too much.

I'ld suggest starting with the basics:

-- setting up public and totally private areas.
-- discussing where you are in the relationship and how you can stay connected
-- what are the good things you each bring to the other and how can this be enhanced
-- is "dating app" because want to explore others, or more a "look at me and how I can show a different side"

You could even take advantage of the time of year. How about an in-home halloween cross dress party. You dress and act as maie as possible, and he dress female and act as female as possible. You could make a game of it and have him help you understand what male behavior is all about and you help him understand the fun of female dress, and then later the other aspects of female dressing that aren't so enchanting.

You've been thru a lot of change and stress, why not keep it lighter and more fun and then see where it leads

[AnnieMac]

Well, Tammy, he is most likely not gay, but it's possible he could be interested in some other girls, based on what you said about the phone messages and apps. Anyway, you have a great way to get even now, if he's messing around on you. Wouldn't be the first time it happened to a CD on this site. BTW, do us special folks here a favor and pass on to your friends or whoever, that for the most part we are a bunch of nice regular guys here, who just happen to like women's clothes, not perverts or anything.

[Tammy494]

Again, I am so thankful to have found this place and all of you. For the past few months I've been consumed by anxiety and stress over all of this, not knowing what to do next. After receiving so much advice and perspective on this, today is the first day in a while that I've felt a little better. I was able to enjoy my time with him today, a day we're both off from work. Lately I've been very bitter and cold towards him unintentionally because of how I feel inside. I didn't know how to stop it.
You really are all amazing people, and you have all opened my eyes a lot more. I now have a better understanding of how hard this is for him. I plan to go to the group on here that a few of you suggested also.
There's so much that has been said here for me to take in. I read every word of every post and I am really digesting everything that you all have said.
To answer a couple of questions, The dating site was a popular site where you find people in close range to you. Nothing having to do with CDs. I'm honestly a bit surprised that even though he didn't show his face that he would go on there because it is so clearly his room in the pictures and ANYBODY could have come across those pictures including friends that have been in his room. I'll never understand unless it is discussed. And again, I found these pictures just from using my phone. I didn't expect to find anything but when I did they were completely fresh. The pictures were uploaded 20 hours previous to me seeing them online.

Although the pictures were not found by snooping but rather by coming across something that was posted for anybody to see, I understand that snooping does not help the situation, but for me it is a hard urge to resist sometimes when I know things are being hidden from me.

What I have come to from everybody's advice is that, although he is not ready in any way shape or form, I do need answers. I will hold off for a little bit, but I don't think I could last months or years longer without at least whatever truth he has to tell me. I know from everything said that he must not even be close to understanding this or himself so how could he possibly explain it to me?
I'm not going to push, because I recall him saying to me a couple weeks ago angrily that, he would never do anything that he's being pushed to do.

I'm torn between showing him this site, or lightly asking about counseling, or maybe both. Or if I should maybe show him this site and then take some space away from him for a little bit. From everything I've gathered it seems like this age is a very tough time for many CDs and I now realize that and I feel for it. I really do. I only wish there was some way I could help him but I know at this current moment I can't. This is a battle inside him and I can't fight it.
I also realized from some of you that my needs are important also, and that I need to take care of myself as well. I'm going to work on that.
Right now I'm just letting myself relax after months of being filled with anxiety. I'm still stressed about it, but I now have this amazing place with beautiful and incredible people to support and help me. I wish I knew what my next move is but like I said, this is all A LOT to think about. So many different possibilities and perspectives. I really really would like to get him to this site. I want him to feel at least a little better like I do right now.

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I forgot to add that I also am debating taking a lighter approach as some of you suggested and trying to have fun with it. However I have no clue how to approach that at all. I would be fine with him dressing up in front of me or me giving him clothing but I really don't know how he would react. If this is sexual as some of you think, then I mean that's fine. He can be sexy for me. As long as I can still be sexy for him. And as long as I'm not sticking anything in him... But again, no idea which approach to take. Do this, show him this site, suggest counseling or leave? Ugh I'm just so unsure I really don't know which is the best choice

[Dana44]

Tammy, One thing you could do is have a Friday night get together. For example I started this a long time ago. When I was working and had a very busy week. I found that Friday night was the one night I could spend time with whoever I was with. In fact its almost time for that now. I crack a bottle of wine. Some nice finger food, like grapes, cheese, crackers or what ever you like. No TV on or any interruptions. This is for you and him. Used to both strip down and face each other and talk about the week or whatever was on their mind. Sometime used candles and incense this was a most romantic time and for me the girl and I would get intimate quickly I found. Yes it was romantic. I usually put on the moody blues or some really romantic music. Today, since I'm out to her. We both dress in a nightie and face each other and yeah it is very romantic.