Do you consider yourself part of the LGBT community?

[AllieSF]

Veronica and Nikki,

"You cannot legislate fairness, equality, alter peoples views with a law. Change takes time, a lot of time! Plus education, belief system modification, societal change...."


So, are you saying and agreeing that legislation that further defines, clarifies and guarantees basic human rights as defined by our wonderful Constitution should be left as a lower priority and happen whenever in the very far future while letting other higher priorities economy, business, politics, foreign relations get the most attention? If left to that, maybe the blacks would still be slaves, women would not be able to vote, nor work, nor be paid fairly and equally for performing the same work as a man and the gays would still be persecuted, and any number of other civil and human rights would never have been corrected.

Basic human rights apply to everyone and do and should take priority over everything else except attacks on our own safety and security. If the majority always ruled regarding human rights, a lot of our society, us small vocal and sometimes, unfortunately, nonvocal minorities would be still denied the rights that others have always taken for granted. We are not "disordering" the ordered system, we are trying to modify it as it really needs to be improved to be a more fair system. Times change and believe it or not we do advance as a society and correct past mistakes and ways of thinking. Yes, that can be disruptive sometimes and for some people. However, when that happens the disrupted need to adapt to the new paradigm which is better, more correct and fair than what existed before. The abusers and violators of civil rights need to correct their errant ways. The same thing happens at work, school and in every aspect of our life. New technology and ideas and ways of doing things impact society in many ways, many of which on the surface appear to negatively impact us, when in fact, once we adapt we find that life is actually better.

Disruption does not have to be bad. And what "chaos" does this cause, and to whom? I do not see any chaos, rather I see improvements for the better to our societies and cultures. Should we go back to the dark ages too?

[Lorileah]

If you don't want to belong, you know where the door is. It always amazes me how people think "This doesn't pertain to me." when in fact it does. Point 1: 30 years ago, you were all mentally ill. Your dressing was cause for being arrested, confined, in the 1960's they would cutout half of your brain. Now I can promise you it wasn't closeted CDs who worked to get that changed. It was the "T" part of LGBT. Point 2: and this is more current. restroom use. I totally get the dress, play and undress in 10 minute crowd, been there. No I didn't need to pee anywhere other than my house. But now many go out and I don't mean just the TSs. As a group (and please bear with me, we ARE a group) you are exponentially more likely to have some sort of violence happen to you. Now I know most aren't gay here but guess what? When a group of people corner you...you are by default. Point 3: ANY minority needs to gather numbers (sort of the definition of minority is there ain't many of you compared to the class that is in control) . So, having people of SIMILAR proclivity seems to make sense. Right? (crickets). Right, ok final point. You are a minority, you don't have a choice otherwise you wouldn't be here . You'd be doing another activity. The world has always functioned as those with the numbers and the power win. So, today it's another group of people, you're safe. Today. But tomorrow? Who knows who cn gain control? Let's just for fun say it's some off the wall GAY group. The "T"s many of whom have tried to distance themselves are now unprotected. Maybe not a mental illness this time but a moral incursion. Paula noted .5% of the population are T. You won't stand much of chance will you? The Native American's (a far higher percentage) didn't. The Jewish people in WWII didn't. All fell victims to a large group of people who banded together. The cheese stands alone.

This comes up every 4 months here. You what people? You don't want to play in the group? Go, be free...have fun...live your life. Those of us who do stay will be there for you even if you don't want us. We will make sure you have an equal chance keeping your kids in the divorce. You're welcome. We will fight to make sure that when you do get outed, your boss can't fire you. No problem it's what we do. We will push for laws that may help protect you from the people who at least follow laws, or make the punishment far worse for those who don't so maybe they'll think twice. Por nada. A lot of the rights and protections you enjoy right now could go away in a heart beat. There have been successful campaigns for just that. "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist. (after all what does a socialist look like?). Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist. (heck, I'm a professional...unions don't help me get paid...yes?)Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.....Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Martin Niemöller. Or maybe if that doesn't fit "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." Divide and keep people fighting within their community and the wolves feast on your sheep.

[OCCarly]

How could I not be a member of the LGBT community? My youngest brother in law is gay, I have another in law who is MTF transgender, and my wife's best friend is an openly gay makeup artist. There is also a teenage transgender girl who comes to visit sometimes with the daughter of one of my wife's close friends. My home is a safe zone for LGBT folks, and even if I were not transgender, I would still consider myself a member of the community.

And last year I put my name and my money on it by openly sponsoring a transgender beauty contest in the Philippines. (Transgender beauty contests are a "thing" and quite a popular one, in that part of the world.)

So put me down for a "yes."

[Pat]

You cannot legislate fairness, equality, alter peoples views with a law. Change takes time, a lot of time! Plus education, belief system modification, societal change....

It's an interesting stance and on its surface not unreasonable. However, most of the things people complain about as "new law" aren't. Most of them are just amplifications of existing law. For example, long ago the founding fathers wrote the big words that all men deserve equal treatment under the law. Some argue that those were only meant to be grand-sounding words; that they only ever were meant to apply to white, straight landholders -- and, oh by the way "men" meant men. But time and again people have come along and said, "Hey, wait -- all men are equal under the law and so I deserve the same considerations as everyone else." And constitutional scholars (i.e. the Supreme Court) look at it and say, "Hmmm. Whadda ya know? They're right."

When you look at the history of that happening it almost never happens that the previous majority roll over and say, "Well, fair's fair. We have to let them in." So we needed laws that amplified the simple constitutional right that had been there all along. We needed specific laws that say you can't fire someone just because they not male. And we had to add another law that said you can't fire someone just because they're not white. And now we're looking for one that says you can't fire someone just because of their sexual orientation or gender presentation.

If you look at all the controversial laws that the LGBT community is trying to get passed, none of them are asking for anything new -- they're just asking for what the majority already have: the right to marry, the right to hold a job, get service in a public business and, basically, the right to be alive. Yes, we actually need law that says it's not OK to kill us for being who we are. But none of that is new law. It's just getting it written down that the old laws apply to us too. Because if it's not written down, apparently it's OK to say it doesn't apply to LGBT people.

So on the surface, I totally agree with you -- we shouldn't need a law that says gay people can get married (in a secular service.) It should have been a no-brainer the first time a same-sex couple applied for a marriage license everyone should have laughed and said, "Hey! We never thought of that -- we've been printing these forms wrong all these years. Our apologies - but we'll fix it up for you. Step over here and the judge will marry you." We shouldn't need a law that says you can't fire someone for anything not job-related. The first time someone even contemplated it they should have been taken aside and counseled. But that's not what happened and so we do need laws that say, "Yes, them too. They can eat in the restaurant; they can own a home; they can...<whatever it is that THOSE people shouldn't be allowed to do.>"

[franlee]

I think we have had a thread about this very subject not too long ago. I think it came up when Caitlyn Jenner appeared on the magazine cover. I said No then, and nothing has changed. As a CD, and solely a CD, I don't belong under that umbrella.

I feel the same way. All this publicity has done for me is alienate me from any causes that make CD's stand out instead of being left to our own devises by the way I can't think of one law that I violate and don't want or need any changed for me. And I was doing this a long time before any groups took it upon them selves to represent me. The media coverage of the Parades is offensive and immoral in most pictures that are highlighted, certainly not something I want to be tied to. As for the restroom laws I don't want you or me in the same restroom with my or your wife at the same time, it's just not right on so many levels and a receipt for trouble or worse, let alone the children that are in there. It is an inconvenience I know, I've dealt with it for years but it is just a part of doing what I enjoy and there are so many options if you plan for the need. So "NO" I am a Cd not any other initial. I don't mean to offend anyone because some of my best friends fit in with the yes's but this is my answer and reason.

[Nikki Elle]

This thread is getting off track, it was a question of yes or no and possibly why. If we want to debate the merits of positions start another thread and I will happily engage.

[josrphine]

I am with Jaylyn, I would like to see as I am not a "T" added LGBTCD, T means you have become a women , am I right or wrong. JO

[AllieSF]

Josrphine,

"T" which generally stands for Transgender can have several definitions depending on different points of view. On this site they have defined Transgender as the umbrella term including Crossdressers to post-op Transsexuals. When you get out in the real world the general public most of whom are not too knowledgeable about the whole Transgender situation, may think that it only refers to Transsexuals. I really do not know what definition is correct or better. All the ones that oppose the umbrella concept have their own valid reasons for disagreeing. To try to simplify conversations here, I accept the sites definition.

So, based on that definition, whether one considers themselves a CD, TS, gender fluid or some other label or non-label, it doesn't matter, they are still under that umbrella. As long as one is happy with how they define themselves that is more than fine with me. However, for the sake of clarity and commonality of definitions and hopefully less disputes about labels from members here, the site's definition could work. You will see many times here a great thread get seriously derailed and then closed down over these side discussions of labels and definitions.

[Lauri K]

.

At 0.5% of the population, the " T" really needs the L's, G's, and even the B's (whatever they are.)

- many of us who are transgender are also gay, lesbian, or even bisexual.

I consider myself part of the LGBT /Q movement

If you want a voice in this you had best get on board with them, simply because the CD numbers will never become large enough to make a movement on their own.

The "T" is very important and we must stand to support the LGBT, heck who knows some of you ladies may decide to transition some day. (many Cd's do by the way)

At the end of the day I really hate labels, but unfortunately the LGBT /Q is the only group leading the way for our rights. (not get fired, housing, healthcare, etc)

I am sorry but the time is now, get on-board and support the LGBT/Q as an Ally, it can only bring much benefit to the CD community.

This is serious, I am not joking you had better take stock of all the hatred that is going on.

Just look what happened here in Houston..............4th largest city to have no LGBT/Q protections

Its all about equality, no matter which group you are or are not affiliated with.............but the LGBT/Q has the momentum and the CD group better get on the deck and start swinging to help the effort to get to equality for ALL.

[carrie001]

@OCCarly - that may be the best response ever.

[heatherdress]

I am not sure what this thread is going to do. It seems that most members who identify as simply being a crossdresser do not feel identification with the LGBT community. They support LGBT goals or ideals, but do not feel they are part of the community. Should that be a surprise? I don't think there are any negative sentiments expressed about the LGBT community in this thread. And I don't think anyone should be surprised or upset. If you do not feel a connection, it is not a decisional statement Perhaps, however, it does offer an appreciation that the LGBT term is so broad and diverse.

[carrie001]

I agree Heather and maybe all of these responses have helped me. I want, and feel proud to consider myself part of the LGBT community. Right or wrong, I can't answer. Hopefully someday soon I'll be outwardly and openly proud.

[kittie60]

Yes,certainly do. I am T. They have opened doors for all of us one way or another. Yes as.with any group your going to get people one sided,snobbish and down right rude, but we are use to that. Take the T,if you think aboutit. Transgender transsexualand transvestite. Look it up and see. For those who think they arein no way connected the lgbt community. I'm not saying this to be thoughtless to anybody its just that I have heard so much crap about it I decided to speak my mind. Again it not meant to offend any anybody.el

[Acastina]

With respect, I think Nikki Elle (#24), Veronica (#50) and Franlee (#55) are essentially expressing reactionary sentiments. The civil-rights movement for African Americans is far from over, and is hardly a self-perpetuating enterprise that has outlived its purpose. Do not confuse winning some battles with winning the war. Yet that war has been raging for, oh, about 60 years now on America's front burner; far from finished.

By the same token, that fear that we all experience when we step out the door as ourselves is very real and damnably durable. That alone should tell us that, for all the landmarks of change that we have seen, there is still a lot of work to be done. No, you can't legislate fairness, but you can penalize unfairness through legislation, court decisions, and political and cultural pressure. Over time, that may have much the same effect.

Finally, "the initial gains made by the movement in obtaining employment and housing rights for transsexuals and others with gender identity issues" are far from universal and exist only in enlightened jurisdictions in which those who hold and politically assert ugly traditional prejudices have been reduced to minority status. Only one who chooses to be willfully blind to the unreasoning hatred that lurks a bad experience or two away from our lives would believe the war has been won and we can all just chill.

I also believe that the development of the conversation to include political and legal aspects of inclusion under the umbrella is an appropriate extension of the OP.

[Lena]

You don't have to legislate equality. It's already a protected right. Without the LGBT (and others) taking their cases to court, the democratic majority would trample those rights. 14th Amendment means states must treat citizens equally, and can’t favor men over women, whites over blacks, or heterosexuals over gays.

See, you don't have to legislate it because it's in the Constitution.

I get so tired of people railing against this so-called "political correctness.". It seems when I was growing up we learned not to say asinine things out of politeness, not "political correctness." What's up with the desire to justify being hateful? If you want to say inappropriate crap, go for. Just don't cry about the supposed political correctness when someone is calling you out for rudeness.

I hope that came out the way it sounded in my head. I think Nikki sounds a lot like most Texans I've met. Is that politically correct?

[Pat]

I am with Jaylyn, I would like to see as I am not a "T" added LGBTCD, T means you have become a women , am I right or wrong. JO

You are wrong. You're confusing "transsexual" which is not what the T stands for with "transgender" -- transgender includes transsexuals, but also includes anyone who feels their gender (an internal sense of self) conflicts with their sex (the fleshy bits.) Men who feel a compulsion to dress in women's clothes are generally assumed to be transgender since cisgender males (manly men) would never even consider that behavior.

Does that change your answer?

By the same token, that fear that we all experience when we step out the door as ourselves is very real and damnably durable. That alone should tell us that, for all the landmarks of change that we have seen, there is still a lot of work to be done.

Awesome statement! As long as that sense of fear exists, the problem exists. If you can rattle off a long list of horrible things that prevent you from coming out, then you're enumerating the problem.

[BillieAnneJean]

I wrote about this on my blog:
http://billieannejeansblog.apps-1and1.com

Lady Ambassador

I have become an ambassador for the LGBTQ community. Every time I go OUT I get one or more people asking probing but polite questions about me, my sexuality, CDing, gay friends, a trans nephew, and so on. There are times where the conversations last an hour or so. I always answer their questions because I may be helping some one that I will never meet.

[heatherdress]

The fear that we have as crossdressers of walking out the door has little to do with legislation or politics. It is primarily fear of embarrassment or becoming isolated by neighbors and friends because of our appearance. Few of us are afraid of being attacked or locked-up, but most of us are afraid of laughter, stares and unkind remarks which would make us feel uncomfortable and lead to probable isolation. That's why most crossdressing occurs in privacy and secrecy, even hidden from spouses, family and friends. We battle behavior expectations that we were taught. I feel with all the terrific accomplishments and goals of LGBT efforts, that our interaction/rejection fears will not be diminished much with legislation. Most crossdressers are private and very secret. That's why I don't even feel deserving of association, as a person who dresses part-time for pleasure, with members of the LGBT community who are battling for such important marriage, employment and other quality-of-life issues which mean so much. I feel changing our individual fears, is more on us, the individual crossdresser, if we want to experience change, at least for the present. I am only being realistic, at least for me. I need to feel different about what others think and not take possible rejection personally. I also think to change ignorance-related sneers, mocking and general non-acceptance from others, significant culture and education changes must occur over time, which I think and hope will happen. I just see that as a different effort than most LGBT efforts, which, once again, I fully support, and an effort that will take a lot of time. Even Bruce Jenner's transition, which I think was remarkable and courageous, most likely promoted knowledge and acceptance of the challenges of transsexuals, but did little to enlighten and promote acceptance of simple crossdressing. Our battles as crossdressers are generally internal, personal, small-scale, gradual, on-going - and winnable.

[Mayo]

As for the restroom laws I don't want you or me in the same restroom with my or your wife at the same time, it's just not right on so many levels and a receipt for trouble or worse, let alone the children that are in there.

I'll just leave these here:

rDTJnvV.jpg

• Debunking The Big Myth About Transgender-Inclusive Bathrooms
• Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathrooms
• The Anti-Trans Bathroom Nightmare Has Its Roots in Racial Segregation
• Why the obsession over bathrooms is the worst thing for transgender rights

[Veronica27]

See, you don't have to legislate it because it's in the Constitution.

I agree with you.

I get so tired of people railing against this so-called "political correctness.". It seems when I was growing up we learned not to say asinine things out of politeness, not "political correctness." What's up with the desire to justify being hateful? If you want to say inappropriate crap, go for. Just don't cry about the supposed political correctness when someone is calling you out for rudeness.

Political Correctness is actually much deeper than simply being polite. I recently found the following quotes while researching the subject.

“Political Correctness is Marxism, with all that implies: loss of freedom of expression, thought control, inversion of the traditional social order and, ultimately, a totalitarian state.” From a booklet entitled “Political Correctness:” A Short History of an Ideology published by the Free Congress Foundation—a US conservative think-tank. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/po...realize-say-wr

"The underlying theme of modern “political correctness” is the virtue of victimhood. As a society, or at least in those parts of it most shaped by academic fads, media sensationalism and the struggle for political advantage, our worth is increasingly calculated by our ability to claim we are oppressed. To be oppressed is to deserve respect, not to mention special treatment." Thomas Donnelly - The Hoover Institution
http://www.hoover.org/research/real-...al-correctness


A very extensive discussion of all aspects of PC, and its potential dangers is at the following site which is a lengthy read. http://thoughtprison-pc.blogspot.ca/

Veronica

[Sky]

“Political Correctness is Marxism, with all that implies"

Unfortunately that is not true. I believe in Marxism but not in Political Correctness.

[SHINY-J]

I don't consider myself part of that community. At least not on the outside.... For all intents and purposes, I'm a straight man and I dress completely for sexual gratification so it's more of a fetish for me, as opposed to a lifestyle. I don't socialize with the LBG community either. It's certainly not that I have anything against them... Far from it. I just never really encounter them as I don't run in those circles.

However, on the inside, I do sometimes find myself feeling like a I have a certain kinship with the them as the majority of people out there associate crossdressing with homosexuality... Even if that's not really the case. I also feel as though the LBG community, over anyone else, would understand accept my dressing and not condemn me for it. Plus, the continuing poor experiences I have sharing my dressing secret with the women that I'm in relationships with, coupled with my growing desire to dress in front of and with someone, I've become obsessed with dressing and playing with other CDs, TS, TG, etc... And I have fantasies about being with a man simply because the overwhelming majority of the attention I get comes from them. I know they only want to use me as a sex toy, but I've still grown to love the idea of it because it's another experience I can have while dressed. It's not the man that excites me, it's simply the act of me doing it that excites me... The exposure... The vulnerability... The degradation... The humiliation.... I don't want to go into further details as I know there are strict limits on this MB, but still, the fantasy is there.

Based on that, I'm sure there are some that might say I'm kidding myself to think I'm straight and that I do belong in the LBGT community, but to be honest, I don't really worry about that. Just look at my dressing style... Lol I'm obviously not afraid to be who I want to be! Lol i certainly wouldn't have any problem admitting I was gay if that was the case. It's 2015... Not 1915... Look at all of the progress that the LBGT community has made just in the last year alone!... It may not be where it needs to be yet.. Despite that, there has never been a better time to be a gay person and it's only going to get better from here.

I just hope that as the tolerance and acceptance improve for those in the LBG community that it improves with CDs, TGs, TS, etc...

[Anneliese]

I never really thought about it, to be honest, until I read this thread. Of course I've always supported the LBGT movement. To not do so is to not only hate others, but also to hate yourself. Of course I'm a member, even if I'm not even sure what I am exactly. What I know I'm NOT is a "standard boring hetero M/F", and neither is ANYONE here if they're honest with themselves. You can't dress in women's clothing on a regular basis and be a part of that group. You simply can't.

I might be a little of all categories.

"L" because I am mostly interested in women, even if I'm equally interested in pretty men dressed as women. The hottest sex would be both of us dressed, with my partner either being a laid-back accepting female or a CD/TS.

"B" because I am interested in both genders. I've only been with women, but I intend to try other options out before I kick the bucket.

"G" because although I've only experienced women's "parts", and am more and more interested in the male "part", with most interest in the part on a CD/TS. Strict man-on-man doesn't interest me, but at this point, I wouldn't rule it out completely.

"T" because it covers all the bases of CD/TS/TG/everyone here.

[Veronica27]

Unfortunately that is not true. I believe in Marxism but not in Political Correctness.

I, personally, had never thought about a possible link between PC and Marxism, but when I began to research the subject, many writers, such as the one I quoted have argued that they have similar origins and similar outcomes. I am a fan of neither concept, but I don't want to wander too far off topic.

Veronica

[Katey888]

Can I perhaps reiterate Nikki Elle's own suggestion made a little earlier...

This thread is getting off track, it was a question of yes or no and possibly why. If we want to debate the merits of positions start another thread and I will happily engage.

Good advice, I feel...

Please just try to keep to the topic without straying too far off into political and philosophical doctrine or this thread is likely to be closed...

Katey
Moderator