Expanding my horizions.

[Helen_Highwater]

OK there’s been loads of posts about being out and about for extended time frames and this in part is one of those.

I recently had the opportunity to spend 4 days/5 nights fully enfemme. Forms glued on, the works. During that time I was able to meet up with 2 others from this forum and attend a meeting of the Concorde group in Manchester, the 3 of us having first dined in a restaurant. Spend day times indulging in some retail therapy interacting with loads of SA’s. Attend a second CD/transgender support group meeting, spending time just chatting about this and that. I paid for fuel in the kiosk at petrol stations. Used "The Ladies" public toilets as and when required. One evening I took myself off to the cinema, something I’d done once before, and was treated as any GG would be by the male SA which felt great. I also ate lunch in a seaside café and again was treated just as any GG would be, ignored by the other customers and trust me on this, I know I don’t pass. I suppose it does show just how more accepting society is becoming.

So here’s the thing. I’m now fairly confident in being out and about even though it’s a rare thing for me to me able to do. Upon returning to drab I was left with the question, “Next time what do I do to push the envelope that bit more?” I suppose trying on clothes is a possible next logical step although I must say the thought of that is scary.

So what can you suggest? In drab I don’t like shopping so even enfemme I need a reason for it. I just don’t want to be walking around shops just for the sake of it (this time there were things I needed). Even in this period I hadn’t anything specific to do one evening so I stayed in watching TV forgoing the chance to go out, something I wouldn't have done in the past.

[Teresa]

Helen,
When you say how much you've been out and enjoyed it without any problems from the public I'm surprised by your comments about shopping.
OK I choose to shop in drab, shoe shopping doesn't bother me at all now, but charity shops are the best, the male shoppers give some side looks but the female shoppers appear to be fairly happy with a guy next to them when going through the racks. Some of the SAs are so much fun many of then are volunteers and don't care what you buy, I always double check that they don't have a problem with a man looking through the women's racks though . I've tried on coats, cardigans and shoes, in fact aSA asked to try on some boots to double check the size on the label, and that was in front of other customers.

[Veronica27]

So here’s the thing. I’m now fairly confident in being out and about even though it’s a rare thing for me to me able to do. Upon returning to drab I was left with the question, “Next time what do I do to push the envelope that bit more?” I suppose trying on clothes is a possible next logical step although I must say the thought of that is scary.

Almost my entire crossdressing life (over 60 years now) has been one of inching that envelope a bit more. From searching my older sister's room in my early teen years, to see what her bras looked like, to figuring out how to put them on, to looking for other things to examine and try, to..............all the way to getting out to a few CD events a while back. I seem to have hit a plateau recently, as I have little desire for some of the next logical steps. Like you, I don't particularly enjoy shopping and some of the events seemed like a lot of money to spend when much of the programme was of no interest to me. Given my own particular circumstances, most of the things that come to mind are outside of my or my wife's comfort zone.

I would also like to hear some suggestions for that envelope.

Veronica

[kittie60]

Hi Helen, I've pretty much done it all. Shopping and trying on clothes is no problem. You'll love it.

[debstar]

Hi Helen, I can relate but from different perspective. Being single and having relatively few friends in this new land I do tend to wonder what to do with my self (in drab). I'm not one to hit the pubs by my self, go to the movies, holiday... Point is it's always better with others en-fem or in drab I think it's all the same. I have visited many villages in the area and after walking around for 30 minutes and having a coffee is gets a bit boring, but when I am with someone it never is.

As for pushing the envelope I am way behind, but plan on dressing and driving to the Concord and back in the same evening so that's a little personal milestone to shoot for.

Considering all you have done I would say whats next is public speaking? join a band and gig run for office Get a part time job as Helen?


Debs.

[Helen_Highwater]

Helen,
When you say how much you've been out and enjoyed it without any problems from the public I'm surprised by your comments about shopping.
OK I choose to shop in drab, shoe shopping doesn't bother me at all now, but charity shops are the best, the male shoppers give some side looks but the female shoppers appear to be fairly happy with a guy next to them when going through the racks. Some of the SAs are so much fun many of then are volunteers and don't care what you buy, I always double check that they don't have a problem with a man looking through the women's racks though . I've tried on coats, cardigans and shoes, in fact aSA asked to try on some boots to double check the size on the label, and that was in front of other customers.

Teresa,

Part of my problem is, am I really saying this?..... I already have too many clothes. If I could get out and about more often then I could justify having an ever bigger wardrobe. While on this last trip I wore 2 dresses out that had never been seen except in front of a mirror at home. I left soo much stuff behind. If I'd taken it all I'd have needed to change 3 times a day to stand a chance of wearing it all. I did buy some things, things I did actually need, jewelry to match the dresses, holdups to match shoes, again which were getting a first outing. What I don't want to end up doing is wondering around shops for the sake of something to do while enfemme.

Giving it further thought I suppose an element in my fear of trying on is being snubbed, the "Yes sir, the gentlemen's changing rooms are over there" sort of thing. I'm fairly thick skinned and can give a withering look when called for. I could easily see myself asking for the manager to discuss diversity training for their staff.

I guess what I'm eluding to is that I'm looking to be in a position were I'm doing different things. Using public transport, that sort of thing. So what things do other regular out and abouter's do?

[docrobbysherry]

Shopping's a 2 way street for me. In drab I don't scare the crap out of SA's or customers, and they hardly ever notice me out shopping!

It takes a certain "in your face" attitude to force your non-passing fem persona on vanillas. Many of u have done this for so long u don't even think about it. But, it will ALWAYS will bother me!

[AllieSF]

Helen,

Just do things that you would do in male mode that do not require being in male mode. How about movies, theater (I saw The Phantom of the Opera many years ago at the Manchester Opera House, in male mode that time), symphony, live performances in big and small venues, museums, special events like women's expos, jewelry shoes, whatever you like to do where female attire would work well. Good luck and enjoy.

[pamela7]

hmmn, before CD (BC) shopping was for me a quick in-and-out experience, needs-must-only, once every 2 years for clothes. After CD (AD) shopping has become a joyful time, where i can browse, look, feel fine in the ladies zones, i "get it". So i'm wondering what i got and you missed that you need a reason to shop when there's an infinity of lady stuff out there!

PS this was my 1500'th post - wow, I never expected that, i've never managed even 1/3 of that on any other kind of forum! thanks ladies

[Leslie Langford]

Helen, once you get over the initial fear factor, resolve to just "do it" as the Nike adverts would tell us, and just own it, then using the womens' fitting rooms when shopping en femme is really quite elementary.

You: Confidently walk up to the fitting room area, look the attendant straight in the eyes, smile engagingly, and declare "I'd like to try these items on, please."

She (smiling pleasantly in return): "No problem. How many do you have there?", and after duly counting them all, will issue you a card with the correct number written on it. She will then let you go to the next available fitting room, and if you are really lucky - and if it happens to be a fitting room area with both a men's and women's section - she will actually point you in the direction of the women's section if you appear at all hesitant as to which direction you should head off in.

Then, once you are done trying on the clothes, simply go back to the desk that she is working from and hand her back her card along with the items that you don't want. She will then thank you, wish you a good day, and you do the same in return. And if it happens that none of the items that you have selected strike your fancy after you have tried them all on, the worst that can happen is that she will pleasantly inquire "Nothing for you today, then?" or the like as you are leaving. You then respond with a sad puppy-dog look, express your sincere disappointment that nothing you tried on was suitable, and she will empathetically share your pain as GG's are biologically programmed to do.

It's really as simple as that. Fitting room attendants are not paid to be the defenders of public morality and the first line of defense in keeping those rampaging hordes of perverted trannies out of the women's fitting rooms. Their No. 1 job is to ensure loss prevention. Period. So unless you make a spectacle of yourself or otherwise draw attention to yourself in a manner that will trigger a visit by store security, you have nothing to fear.

Stores are not in the business of alienating their customers, and even if you are not 100% "passable" - especially with so many mannish-looking women out there these days - do you really think that they would risk insulting such a GG by questioning her gender and her right to use the appropriate fitting room? For all they know, you might just be one of those, and any lingering doubts will end right there.

[MissDanielle]

What I did today at Kohl's was take the jeans I wanted to try on over to the men's room since I was drab. This enabled me to finally get an idea of what size jeans I wear (14). It's possible I could be a 12 but I didn't see any in the stack that I could try on. The inseam on the 16s were way too long for me.

[Allison_CD]

I Googed Concorde group in Manchester and found it interesting.
Shopping I had phoned Evans Outsize and they told me no, re changing rooms but when I was in the shop the lady recognised my voice and said, "If you are dressed Female you can use the changing rooms".

[Helen_Highwater]

Thanks for all the replies.

I can see why folks find it a little odd that I can tire of shopping enfemme. While Helen is an element of the whole me the male part doesn't like shopping and although I behave differently when enfemme I'm not two entirely different persons. Yep trying on for the first time would be scary, a buzz, I know that if I said to myself, go on do it I have the confidence to do so. However I wouldn't want to do it for it's own sake, as if just proving a point.

What I'm trying to articulate, what I'm asking, is what else do you do when enfemme. I've already decided I'm going to try to go to the theatre. It would be interesting to be sat next to a total stranger for several hours to see if any conversation arises. Perhaps I'm answering my own question. It's more finding those interactions that are more than, "Did you find what you were looking for?", "Do you need a bag for those?" that you get with SA's.

So do others seek this sort of what I see as validation. Being treated "normally", engaged in conversation as if they were talking to a GG. I've experienced it somewhat by chatting to the little old lady when waiting in the queue to pay. Is it feeling a need to belong?

More questions than answers!

[AllieSF]

Helen,

As I stated above I try to do most of those activities that I would do in male mode. I have so much fun when out, that I do actively seek that interaction with those that I know and know me in femme mode, and with complete strangers. I thrive on those casual and sometimes deep and personal, mostly about themselves, conversations and good times "in the moment". Only occasionally does the conversation swing around to what I do, who I am and why do I do it. Mostly it is fun conversation with a light of conversational humor and just regular fun. I used to feel validated and now hardly ever think about that anymore.

If you are more shy, reserved or introverted, this approach becomes more difficult. However, I have seen that type of person come out of their shell when dressed as a woman and out interacting with complete strangers. If you start to frequent certain venues likes pubs, wine bars and restaurants often enough you start to look forward to seeing the service staff, maybe the owners and other patrons. It really can be liberating and enjoyable once you find out how to make it work. Good luck and please try it. You just may like it more than you imagined.

[pamela7]

So do others seek this sort of what I see as validation. Being treated "normally", engaged in conversation as if they were talking to a GG. I've experienced it somewhat by chatting to the little old lady when waiting in the queue to pay. Is it feeling a need to belong?

Hi Helen, I still don't know the answer to that. I know I feel happy and more me, fully me, when dressed. Anything anyone else does or thinks doesn't really impact on this. However, the first letter I received addressed to "Miss ...", well that did give me a huge grin, so I'm sure there is some validating going on inside. xxx Pamela