The disaster of coming out to the SO

[pamela7]

I feel sad with all this, there are some tough words here, and me included, not everyone expresses what they mean in the limited medium of words, so we come across wrong.

If the SO feels truly loved, why would she respond negatively? The words "plain Jane" horrify me, because i know every human being is beautiful, if most of us can't see it. A human tree archetype may grow a hunched back and stagger along the road, but their form still radiates a unique being, the light in their eyes is another soul. I'm attracted to slim, petite, short brunettes with long hair (and a big smile, with big teeth, red riding hood). Sorry, I can't help that. It does not mean I find ugly everyone else, it's just what turns me on, being the wolf'n'all.

The answer folks is to watch Grimm (NBC) and match up your archetypes, rather than chase what the media sees as beauty.

[Marcelle]

To be honest I read the post title and thought this was going to be a balanced view of the potential for things to go bad when the big reveal happens. However the post read more like a primer on "what not to do" if you want to seek some sort of accord with your SO.

Sorry Shiny . . . I don't even know where to start? It never ceases to amaze me that some folks will gravitate here espousing a "live and let live attitude" only to trash their wives/girlfriends with misogynistic beliefs of the good old days when men ruled the roost and women sat around all pretty in high heels and a dress waiting for the man of the house to come home, hand him a drink, serve him dinner and wait on his every need. I just don't get it? If you dress like a woman and wish to be allowed to do so in your relationship here is a question for you (for those of you whom this is a scenario you enjoy the question is not meant to challenge your lifestyle choice but only for the OP) . . . Would you spend all day at home coiffing your hair, doing your nails, baking cookies, doing housework, taking care of the children waiting anxiously for your wife to get home to see to her every need? Would you dress up in uncomfortable lingerie to match her belief of what you should look like? Would you spend every waking minute of your life adhering to a gender stereotype of femininity because your wife earns more money than you? You might for awhile but I believe it would wear thin pretty quickly.

She's a "cotton panty" "plain Jane" girl, which is problem one. I'd buy her lingerie, she wouldn't touch it. Expensive sheer vintage nylon stockings? With a garter belt!? NOT a chance! I admit I get sick of seeing the grungy slippers and sweat pants and shapeless sweat shirts but I enjoy the female shape and sure would like to see it once in a while--to admire. Anyway, the more I mentioned heels, and lingerie, and makeup and maybe mentioning to her to maybe get her hair done it somehow became too much.

My girl started out as a girly-girl. Hey, I love feminine women! But after a time I guess it's easier to follow the crowd and trends, but come on. She quit wearing makeup, and heck with the dresses---how about a nice blouse and women's slacks and feminine shoes even if they are flats now and then? Nope. It started on the weekends and I get that too. But soon it was a daily deal with no makeup, unkempt hair, old sneakers, sweat pants and usually, my old sweat shirts. I mean she did bathe often and did not grow out her body hair but it started to feel like I was living with another GUY! I did not force her to wear girly things! But I had a reasonable expectation if I brought her lingerie she might indulge now and then, geez! When she didn't like the things I bought I didn't complain, I simply quit buying her nice things----she at least did enjoy the flowers I bought though.

So let me get this straight it is okay for you to walk around at home in typical guy attire (sweats, t-shirts) and I am guessing unshaved at your leisure but your SO is not afforded the same latitude because you love to admire feminine women? I have no idea what your phenotype is but how would feel if your wife suggested you hit the gym a bit more and get a six pack abs and a bigger chest or just look more manly? How about dressing more snazzy around the house (no sweats or t-shirts for you)? We enter relationships with our best face forward (e.g., dressed to the nines, kempt and whatnot). Over time it wanes not because we don't care but because we learn to accept each other for who we are not what we wear. You GF/wife is not a Barbie doll to dress up and admire anymore than you are a Ken doll. You are people with free will to wear what you want when you want much like you expect the right to dress as a woman from time to time . . . n'est pas.

Most women don't dress anymore, they've become too macho. Most are slobs around the house, they won't cook and after a time they even push intimacy aside. Guess that's "today's woman." I made most of the money in the relationship, paid way more than my share of the bills because I am the "GUY" and ended up doing 90% of the cooking and housework and washing and cleaning. Where's my benefit?

But, look at "regular" women these days. Really look! They want the 50's lifestyle women used to enjoy with all the benefits of a home and car and spending money and being able to stay at home if possible but they won't reciprocate as in the old days.

Okay I am going to call BS on this one . . . now who is living in a 1950s fantasy land. Really? She owes you domestic servitude like in the "good old days" because you pay some bills and earn money?

But once she figured out I dressed the relationship fell apart about as quick as a sugar cube hitting the hot coffee!!

I then turned the tables on her and fought back by saying: "...well, maybe if you had pretty legs like mine you wouldn't mind dressing up now and then in stockings and heels." . . . Well, I got another round of insults then told her I had no doubt my legs were far more "feminine" than hers were. She laughed and guffawed. I then got dressed and took a few leg-pictures to prove it! . . .Anyway, I proved myself and when she saw the printed picture in 8x10 you could see the smoke coming out of her ears! I heard the whisper of the word "fag" as she left the room. Two days later she moved out and that was it.

To be honest, while the dressing may have been the impetus to push your SO away I truly believe there was more to her exit then just your dressing. Goodness you admit to expecting your SO to dress and act like some gender stereotype, insult her when she does not then get mad when she retorts.

And my "legs" comment? I never made fun of her, I just got fed up one evening after taking another round of verbal gut-punches and told her my legs looked better. Stupid to do that? In retrospect, sure. Maybe I was trying to show that my CDing wasn't any big deal. She looked at me like a different person when there I was standing in front of her the same guy she'd know all along. Too bad she couldn't see that or even try to understand. Well, I did all I could.

No you never made fun of her . . . you insulted her. Trying to show your CDing was no big deal by insulting her . . . not the best method for open dialogue and moving the ball forward. Most people who come out to their SOs here spend time in communication, with common ground identified which both are comfortable with. How could you even expect your SO to accept this part of you when you spend your time trying to force your concept of femininity on her? The logic escapes me . . . sorry.

I've always been a live-and-let-live guy and only wish others felt and thought the same way. Hard to understand sometimes why most folks are so inflexible while others only get off on ridicule and putting others down!?

Serious? I think Paula summed this one up perfectly. You expected your SO to let you be who you needed to be but you are not willing to afford her the same latitude? Again the logic escapes me.

I'm always amazed at the lengths single women go to, with their sexy clothes and makup, and how quickly they regress into the frumpy, comfortable look after the wedding. Just telling it like it is.

And I am guessing you maintained your youthful physique and continued to dress all GQ around the house for the woman's benefit?


Marcelle

[hope springs]

Ok shiny, i have read the responses. I would dismiss most of them since folks here usually defend the GG and advise the CD to change.
If a relationship is in trouble, then alot of harsh words are being thrown around. People here got real focused on you telling her that your legs were better. Most glossed over the verbal tirades she threw at you. People always want to take the high road, not me. If you sling some mud my way, im lobbing boulder size insults back. If you keep calm and respectful, so will I. Point is dont worry about the barbs you exhanged, i would likely have said much worse.
Second, im sure its damn hard to find a woman who accepts CDing. Woman are a dichotomy. They want a manly man, but not overly dominate. Alpha in the right situations but also able to open up and connect with them emotionally( and only them, claws out for other women). Its appears they want manliness but only on their terms, under their thumb if you will. I digress.
You are what you are and if a woman doesnt like it... So be it. Its easy to get bitter about being a CD, we want companionship too. Just expect a woman will walk out when you tell her. Everntually, one might actually stay. But i understand if the pain of this cycle you experience is too much.
Oh. And theres nothing wrong with asking a gal to wear some sexy stuff now and then. We are visual and lord knows they ask alot of us GMs..

[Sara Jessica]

I'm not sure I've encountered a more rooted and clearly stated misogyny than what is presented in OP's two comments. The first one, someone might take it with a grain of salt but the true colors really come through in the second one. There was no high road taken. The hurt she felt in dealing with this was met with utter ridicule. The missing ingredient on both sides seems to be communication. The aftermath wasn't all that unpredictable.

I'm not going to pick these things apart any further, others have done so quite eloquently. But one thing should be put into context...

Come on, girls. Give her a little slack. She just had a bitter breakup and needed a place to rant.

No, these aren't fresh wounds...

Anyway, being single and living alone now for the past several years is well, lonely, but I've come to terms with it and don't mind it at all anymore, matter of fact I prefer it! It's a freedom nearly without limit--eat what I want, when I want, watch TV shows I want, have a drink when I want, stay up late if I want.

This whole things sounds like years of bitterness rolled into a far-reaching rant and any sympathy or empathy I might feel is wiped away by the overall tone of the posts.

This whole thing makes me think of the lyrics to a song by The Beautiful South called "A Little Time"...be careful what you wish for, guys. While the song has to do with infidelity, the theme applies to any situation a relationship might encounter. We are a difficult lot to deal with for most of our SO's regardless of when we come out to them. They might give an inch, we often take a mile (guilty as charged) and it usually takes a significant amount of communication and compromise on the foundation of a strong relationship to keep things working positively for both people.

Anyways, back to the song...blue verses are his, pink are hers. I dare everyone to read these words, to understand them in the context of your own situations.

I need a little time to think it over
I need a little space just on my own
I need a little time to find my freedom
I need a little

Funny how quick the milk turns sour
Isn't it, isn't it
Your face has been looking like that for hours
Hasn't it, hasn't it

Promises, promises turn to dust
wedding bells just turn to rust
Trust into mistrust

I need a little room to find myself
I need a little space to work it out
I need a little room all alone
I need a little

You need a little room for your big head
Don't you, don't you
You need a little space for a thousand beds
Won't you, won't you

Lips that promise fear the worst
Tongue so sharp the bubble burst
Just into unjust

I've had a little time to find the truth
Now I've had a little room to check what's wrong
I've had a little time and I still love you
I've had a little

You had a little time and you had a little fun
Didn't you, didn't you
While you had yours do you think I had none
Do you, do you

The freedom that you wanted bad
Is yours for good I hope you're glad
Sad into unsad

I had a little time to think it over
Had a little room to work it out
I found a little courage to call it off
I've had a little time

I've had a little time

Again, be careful what you wish for.

[PaulaQ]

OK, I'll try this again.

We can't conclude much about the general likelihood of acceptance from a spouse because there are a number of problems in the way the OP approached the reveal:
1. The reveal happened during an argument - this is not a formula for success
2. The OP had been criticizing his spouse's fashion choices, and buying garments for her that quite a lot of women would decline to wear. She likely felt objectified, as well as possibly triggering body issues, and apparently, she didn't like wearing those types of items. So she probably already had bad feelings about the types of clothing the OP likes to wear from these incidents. (Not defending her actions either - the SO was pretty nasty about the whole thing, but she was also provoked, that's my only point.)
3. After apparently several heated discussions about the OP's CDing from the SO, the OP decides to further body shame her. This happens to women a LOT, and it's unpleasant. In my opinion, this pretty much ended all hope for a recovery.

Revealing your CDing during a fight, and then digging in and striking back (even if you feel it's warranted because your SO is acting somewhat abusively towards you), is not a strategy that is likely to succeed in acceptance of your CDing. This is one of the best examples of the wrong way to do the reveal that I can think of. It is probably only slightly better on the reveal than greeting her dressed at the door and yelling "surprise, I'm a crossdresser!" Preceding the reveal with insulting behavior, and following it up with actual insults probably makes a surprise reveal actually more likely to succeed than what the OP did. (Note: I would've said a surprise reveal was probably the WORST way to come out to your SO, at least until I read this thread...)

[Judith96a]

Sara Jessica,
I remember hearing that song when it was first released. The subtext really is "Be careful what you wish for"

Is it just me or is there the faintest odour of something?

[Meghan4now]

Hmm. Missed that tidbit there Sarah

Shiny has been a member here a long tme. Sound like the bitterness has set pretty hard. Building up those walls and the dedication to anger and lack of empathy can be an almost insurmountable obstacle for any healthy relationship. Good luck to the OP. He needs to find some serious healing.

[Tina_gm]

Wow sarah jessica that is a powerful song. I decided to give youtube a try to see if it was there, yep. I figured it was a song not about CDing, but the words still ring so true.

Now I say this of CDers, not those who are TS. So please for all those who are more than CDers, I do not mean this for you. I mean this for CDers who are not transitioning....

We marry the girl of our dreams. Maybe we tell them ALL, usually not. All the reasons yadda yadda why we don't. I didn't either. Most of us go to work and spend 8,9,10 or more hrs a day there. Our co-workers get the male. We go spend time with our friends, mutual or just our guy friends- they get the male. Our kids, family-they get the male. We come home and the girl of our dreams, who has found the guy of his dreams, but now he expects she to be ok, content, and even happy with the female only she knows of. A secret we ask her to keep.

We make all the time for the male and only the male for everyone but her. We expect her to be ok with something she was never looking for, doesn't likely have any attraction for. We expect her to accept something later on that she never knew of, and expect her to be ok that only she knows about. We tell her hey, no big deal, it's all normal really. But PLEASE don't let anyone else know, unless it is ok'd by him. It's really all so ok, normal, but our actions tell it so differently.

The girl of our dreams comes home after enduring all the stresses in life we do, and maybe some nights, she just wants the guy she fell in love with to be only that. Not wrapped up in how to look better as a woman, act better as a woman. She just wants the guy she married.

For the CDers, the girl of our dreams makes A LOT of compromise just to stay with us, and give us time, either with them or without them, but they are giving us that time. Sometimes we need to be able to give them their time too. To be what we showed them we were, to honor our promises that they are the most important thing in our lives and we will do anything for them.

I am really sorry to be a buzz kill. Not the 1st time from me, probably not the last. I am not saying or suggesting we give up what or who we are. I am just saying remember what is truly most important. If- we do not identify as women, are not ever going to actually become women, remember what your real priority is. Work, friends, family-kids, all get the male. Yes, our lives as CDers can be very frustrating. But, so is life in general much of the time. I say this as I do need to remind myself of this. Not that I dress in my wife's presence, I don't. But, I need to remind myself too that just because I am not dressing, I still need to be him- that everyone else gets for my wife too. He is in there, HE enjoys life, enjoys being a dad, enjoys HIS golf game, HIS time with HIS buddies. His wife sometimes just needs time with HIM too. She is every bit as deserving as anyone else to have HIM, and HIM alone sometimes.

[ReineD]

Marcelle, I agree with everything you said, except the following:

Would you spend all day at home coiffing your hair, doing your nails, baking cookies, doing housework, taking care of the children waiting anxiously for your wife to get home to see to her every need? Would you dress up in uncomfortable lingerie to match her belief of what you should look like? Would you spend every waking minute of your life adhering to a gender stereotype of femininity because your wife earns more money than you? You might for awhile but I believe it would wear thin pretty quickly.

We do have a contingent of CDers here who want exactly that (but dressed as a woman of course), in fact the scenario you describe is their ideal fantasy and this might explain why some CDers have such unrealistic expectations of their GG partners. Coincidentally, there's a current thread in the CD section about this very thing ... a CD member is about to live as a genuine "housewife" for two weeks with a male friend, and she wanted advice on how to make the experience as realistic as possible.

[Dana44]

Shiny, I must say that your outlook is pretty much what killed her thoughts to stay with you. Never put down a woman on their looks. I also went though life and many many women. Loved them all but they didn't work out as we are pretty special people. Now, I finally have an SO that I can communicate with. She is not always with the program. But generally supports me in this relationship. I never ever said that I looked better than her in anything. I have told her how I appreciate her putting on heels and a skirt and looking the best she could. That is what makes a woman beautiful. She has told me that I look better than her. yet I always say that she is a woman and I cannot ever look as good as you. I have to struggle to pass and she helps me do that. Always appreciate your women and they will do wonders for you.

[Gretchen_To_Be]

gendermutt

Yes, this is exactly right. Which is why I stop dressing entirely from Apr thru Sep! Pure guy time. This compromise has worked for us so far.

[Stumble]

Touché, Sara. I stumbled into this thread with dinner in hand, looking for quiet distraction only to find my self in the middle of The Gender Wars.

It crossed my mind to wonder if all the guys complaining that they pay most of the bills, have they noticed the statistics about how much more money men make?

OK, time to duck and cover. Luckily my guy is 'dressed' tonight so I can go find his ample bosom to cry on.

[Marcelle]

Marcelle, I agree with everything you said, except the following:



We do have a contingent of CDers here who want exactly that (but dressed as a woman of course), in fact the scenario you describe is their ideal fantasy and this might explain why some CDers have such unrealistic expectations of their GG partners. Coincidentally, there's a current thread in the CD section about this very thing ... a CD member is about to live as a genuine "housewife" for two weeks with a male friend, and she wanted advice on how to make the experience as realistic as possible.

Hi Reine,

Oops my bad, I should have been a bit more directive (corrected now in my response). This was meant solely for the OP as I know there is a contingent of folks here where this is their thing and nothing wrong with that as it gives them joy and if they have a willing SO . . . all the better So if I have offended anyone please, it was not directed at you. However, given the OP's level of misogyny I doubt he would be happy being home playing June Cleaver for any period of time while his SO rules the roost.

Cheers

Marcelle

[xNicolex]

My SO is a very attractive woman with few shortcomings (aside from her mental attitude).
Shiny-

I gotta say for someone to just decide to leave someone like that it sounds to me like she had more than a mental attitude problem the words homophobic and transphobic come to mind but haters gonna hate good riddance to bad rubbish

[Teresa]

Shiny,
It became a standard joke eventually that I always bought a nightie for my wife for Xmas . That was before I came out to my wife she did mostly wear them now she obviously thinks they were really for me .
I never bought her underwear but a funny twist to this was I would buy her a nice cookery book sometimes but eventually got a similar answer that her cooking obviously wasn't good enough, so if I could do better I could take over. Again like you I do all the cooking , cleaning, washing and ironing but it's not enough because she wants me to do the man stuff as well !
I have to agree with the other comments and you also agree the leg comment was cruel but in the heat of the moment you tossed it into the argument , I don't think i would have gone as far as taking pictures.
It may be hard for some wives to accept but my legs now they are shaved do look better than my wife's , I would never tell her that . Everyone I've shown my pictures to comment on my legs, I would love to share more of that with my wife but it's not going to happen.

It is sad your marriage failed but the way you write it sounds as if your wife was looking for a reason and CDing may have given the excuse . You don't mention children which complicates things, I just couldn't face separation when it came to it because of losing my children and grandchildren. You say life alone is working out but I chose to stay and live a compromised lifestyle, I knew it would be hard , my wife is inconsistent and moving the goalposts is happening all over again ! My wife accuses me of being moody and awkward but it is hard when one day you can be happy with a situation and the next the wind has changed and you can't do a thing right !