I was not saying the song made them do it. What I am saying is that D-Bags like the ones who attacked me would find that song "oh so hilarious" as it feeds right into their prejudice and hate.Originally Posted by Laurana
I was not saying the song made them do it. What I am saying is that D-Bags like the ones who attacked me would find that song "oh so hilarious" as it feeds right into their prejudice and hate.
I'm feeling both sides of this argument. On the one hand, it's a well-crafted comedic song and taking the artist's body of work as a whole I respect it. But Marcelle is spot on: this is part of the problem. This is part of why so many here pull their window shades or talk about how dangerous it is out there. As a kid in Boston in the 1950's we sang comedic songs about n...err...black people and there was no hurtful intent on our part, but it was reenforcing the culture that was getting black people killed simply for existing. I'd say until you can go into work dressed and made up, until you can dress in front of the kids or meet your future in-laws while pretty, this isn't the time to defend that particular work or others like it.
How about a Christmas song parody that turns the tables? Can you imagine one that puts crossdressing in a positive light and makes the haters the butt of the humor?
Whoa, sorry for starting such a polarizing thread...that radio station has made some positive comments towards the 'community' on the morning show lately (CJ) and then I heard that 'tune' and kinda blew a fuse, over reacted a little bit 😮
That said...It WAS penned 30 yrs ago...back in the 'good ol' days', back when it was 'cool' to spout racial slurs...and Lead in gasoline was a good idea (maybe all that lead was the root cause 😕 )
Meh. I stand by my statement. I found songs like that funny going back to the Dr. Demento days and still find them funny. Make fun of everyone and to hell with those that can't laugh. I can guarantee that there isn't a person ever who hasn't laughed at a joke made at someone elses expense.
No crucifixion today, it'd be in bad taste so close to Christmas.
if somebody were to sing that song to me, in my face, it would be a direct insult, and I would absolutely make a scene. Or at least I know I should. I still have a bitter taste about not giving some small town hicks a piece of my mind for berating my looks, not that long ago. I always wanted to be the angry woman who throws a glass of liquor in the offending guy's face: actually I'd rather drink the liquor and throw just water, but the idea is the same.
But it's all about context. I know you said "now before someone goes..." and I'm going exactly there, but I'm afraid I just don't agree with you. Comedy is just that, comedy, and IMHO being unable to laugh about yourself dries up your life. So writing a song about guys running around in lingerie can be funny. I actually don't find the song that funny but it's not because I feel offended, I just think the jokes are not that great.
I agree there's a fine line between funny and insulting, and cultural standards are continuously evolving: for example, what passed as "funny" using dumb black dunce stereotypes in the early Hollywood age is grossly insulting today. So maybe times are a-changing and that silly song is indeed turning into insulting now. For my own old-fashioned standards, it's still kosher (I hope that didn't offend any Jew cd)
"Laughter is the best medicine." - various sources, "Let a smile be your umbrella." - Irving Kahal and Francis Wheeler. The internet is full of quotes about laughter and humour, and I did a quick look before replying. "I am thankful for laughter, except when milk comes out of my nose." - Woody Allen. "Laughter is an instant vacation." - Milton Berle. "A day without laughter is a day wasted." - Charlie Chaplin.
The ability to laugh at ourselves, to see the humour in what we do and who we are, is one of the biggest assets we can possess. All the great classic comedians knew this, and were much beloved because of it. When I was growing up we laughed at Benny, and Skelton, and Hope, and Laurel and Hardy, and Abbot and Costello, and Bob and Ray and on and on. We listened to how Spike Jones, and Homer and Jethroe, and Arthur Godfrey, and Harry Stewart (Yogi Yorgesson and Hari Kari) and Jerry Lewis sang songs murdering the lyrics of both our favourite popular songs, and our cherished classical music. Somewhere along the way, this form of humour, which good naturedly satirized and lampooned the eccentricities of every individual, culture, race, nationality and gender and most often was directed inwardly as we could identify with much of it, was taken over by political correctness. I prefer to call it the politics of guilt as it is destroying not only our sense of humour but also our freedom to think. Comedy today has been reduced to obscenities and sexual innuendoes in the hope of offending nobody.
We grow up in an environment of having an image of manhood and womanhood. The overall perception of womanhood is such that seeing a woman do manly things or wearing masculine clothing is one of admiration rather than derision. The same is not true in reverse for men, as the image of manhood is one of strength and being in control of both the situation and his emotions. The initial impulse, when seeing a man wearing female clothing, or doing chores that have traditionally been female responsibilities, is often to see it as being funny. Comedians and songwriters such as this example have fed on this source of laughter, at least until PC came along and made us feel guilty.
Those who would bring us harm because of our predilection to crossdress are going to do so regardless of whether or not they hear songs such as this. However, seeing the humorous side of crossdressing and our own ability to laugh along with it, could do much to promote a better understanding of the phenomenon and those who participate in it. By showing we are not offended by their initial impulse to chuckle, and our understanding of why this occurred, we are humanizing ourselves more than if we were to show hurt feelings and sulk. I am speaking for those of us who are crossdressers and not the transgenders, but they could also benefit from an overall healthier public attitude towards cross gender images. And laughter is great medicine.
Veronica
Light up Pobin. I think it'a a cute little song like gramma got runover by a raindeer. Take A deep breath count to ten and let it go girl.
Angie
I listened and I had a laugh. We all know that the type of CD referenced is all too real.
Okay . . . you win . . . it is great fun absolutely hilarious to make fun at others expense . . . LOL, LMAO and whatnot . . . HARDY, HAR, HAR. Doesn't feed into any negative stereotypes or give people a poor vision of what being TG is all about. Just remember this thread the next time someone asks "Why do people see us as perverts or freaks" or somebody makes an off color joke about you at your expense in public . . . just humor . . . right, not need to get insulted or upset. So take a deep breath, count to ten and let it go.
Said my peace and in the wise words of Becky . . . well agree to just disagree.
Marcelle
I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in on this topic. I have never liked the song and cringe every time I hear it. Plus I agree with a lot that Marcelle has written on the subject.
Robin, I too find this incredibly offensive. The humor in the song is founded on the premise that what we do is perverted or unnatural.
OK, think about if it were about ANY other minority...even if you think that calling people names and reinforcing stereotypes is funny in your world...this is just RUDE and mean. I get where you all find it cute because you are CDs but it is an insult to Transsexuals
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Loroleah, you are right IF you substitute Jew or Black or some other ethnicity BUT... how does it come off if you substitute carpenter or painter or pensioner? While some may feel otherwise, cross dressing is not a religion nor an ethnicity. It's an activity to most in the world. While I do not find the song entertaining, it is not offensive.
I am sorry... I've heard that song about 20 years now. I love it just as much now as i did then. I am not at all offended by it.
Okay, I promised to say my peace and leave it at that but this remark requires response.
Jennifer, if you read Lori's post and some of mine you should have noticed we are of the mindset that it is offensive to TS. Now you might believe the song is aimed only at crossdressers but "newsflash" unless someone is educated in the concept of the TG spectrum they don't differentiate between TS and CD, we are all the same in the eyes of those who hate. TS is not an activity it is my life and when I see garbage like this and hear folks who should know better saying it is just good fun, no harm no foul it irritates me that they cannot demonstrate even an iota of empathy to understand the offensiveness to those of us on the other side of the spectrum who live with these negative stereotypes every day.
On another note, nobody goes around berating, physically assaulting or doing worse to people who are carpenters, painters or pensioners . . they do however do so to TG persons (both TS and CD). There are no negative stereotypes associated with being a carpenter, painter or pensioner which would lead people to minimalize those groups of people and see them as less than human. Besides if this were only an activity (as you suggest) then you should be able to give it up if you have to, which even you proclaim is genetically coded into you so you cannot just give it up. So your activity analogy is quiet flawed and to be honest IMO downright insulting to the TS side of the house.
Marcelle
I don't find the song funny personally but I am not going to get bent out of shape about it. If people like it fine, if they don't, fine. I am a member of another group in society that gets far far more jokes at their expense, fat people (a group that is still 100% culturally acceptable to make fun of.) There wouldn't be enough hours remaining in my life to sue everyone who has ever made a joke at the expense of fat people. People can make fun of any group they want, no matter how offensive it might be to most, it is protected speech, there is no right to not be offended in life.
Don't be sorry for liking something funny.
Here's another one you may like from Weird Al called "Drivin a truck with my high heels on".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXfo50MDxs
I hesitate a little to reopen a comment here, but wth - Marcelle's had a few rebuttal opportunities too...
Let me start by saying that I would shudder to think of anyone here supporting something that actually promoted any sort of hate or bigotry against any of our community or through any inaction of their own, allowed that type of bigotry to propagate.
I feel truly sorry that a number of our TS members have posted here clearly feeling so upset by this rather inane Christmas parody - but I do think that emotions seem to be getting on top of things, when the song has been referred to as being 'rude', incorporating 'name calling' and implying what we do (presumably all of us) is 'perverted and unnatural' when there is nothing that I can find in the lyrics of the song that express that explicitly. The video imagery has clearly been thrown together by some hapless YT aficionado to add some additional humour and is probably more offensive, but is mild compared to other things that can be found on YT.
Look - does anyone here really believe that either Bob Rivers or this YT vid is truly influential...? I don't believe so...
Western, liberal culture has a strong tradition of allowing both free speech and the use of satire, parody and imagery to express individual thoughts, humour and to stereotype and entertain... And before anyone jumps on the use of the word 'entertain' and feels that no minority should be singled out to be used for the entertainment of the masses, this is the foundation of a lot of comedic entertainment - and that is what this song is intended to be - nothing more...
I sympathise with anyone who is offended by this and other things they feel offended by, but I cannot feel offense on their behalf for something that I neither feel is offensive to my person, nor was intended to offend in the first place.
Comedic stereotypes, however, do have a habit of pushing buttons... which is why (once again) education and propagation of more truthful examples is key to understanding and acceptance...
Katey x
"Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear" Stefani Germanotta
Okay . . . so if this is not offensive to any of you who claim so and just good fun. Then why are not out to the public as CD? I am not just talking about dressing up and going out to lunch or shopping but out to your friends, family and whomever. After all it is just good fun, an activity so should be no issue proclaiming such to the world. Why do you keep it private? Because you know the world will paint exactly as that silly parody does . . . mincing perverts in lingerie. I'm out of here.
Marcelle
While not a Christmas song, you should check out Weird Al Yankovic "driving a truck."
By the way I love walking around in womens underwear. Yeah and the song is good too. Hahaha
Marcelle you know damn well that that song did not say anything about "mincing perverts in lingerie". You want to be offended and pissed off and rail at the sky fine. But at least have the decency to not lie about what the song says.
As to your "why are you not out" comment; There's probably a thousand reasons why people keep this side private. And quite honestly it's none of your business.
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Love that song.
Umm . . . never said the song said anything about that. The parody of TG folks obsessed with lingerie and prancing about as such says it all. So please get your facts straight before accusing me of lying. Thanks.
Who here is old enough to remember Amos n' Andy? It was a network (CBS) television show that was based on a network radio show and was wildly popular and funny. Well, funny to white folks. It was about a group of black friends living in Haarlem and they were largely portrayed as buffoons. Hilariously funny. To white folks. The issue wasn't the jokes, which were Vaudeville retreads for the most part and could have been applied to any minority, the problem was the underlying message -- that the portrayal fit all black people. That it was OK to evaluate every individual in an entire race using the assumptions (applied humorously) in the show. It didn't say it's OK to harm black people, but it supported the culture that thought it was. It had been cancelled long before the civil rights movement got traction but it was popular in reruns up through the 60's when it became a point of focus and the network withdrew it. At the time there was a lot of backlash from people, even black people, saying, "Hey, it's funny! Hey, it means no harm!" and so on. But "means no harm" and "does no harm" are different things.
I'm pretty sure that's what Marcelle and others are reacting to. Yes, there is no lyric in the song about mincing perverts but the song supports the people who choose to take that view of us. And someday, hopefully, the day will come when those people are as popular as white supremacist are today but until then you have to ask yourself if the song is funny enough that you want to encourage its social viewpoint. Is it funny enough to forgive a public attack? Funny enough to make up for the fact that transgender people are murdered at an alarming rate?
You can find Amos n' Andy episodes again now. They used to be completely wiped away. You can honor them for the creative effort that went into them, for the jobs they created for black actors back in the day. But now when you watch them you'll be comparing their social view to your personal knowledge that there are black CEOs, black doctors -- even a black president. Hopefully they'll still make you cringe a little bit. I admire the creative effort that went into that song and I admire the artist's body of work, but it might be time to put the song in a drawer for a while until transgender folks on the front line get social acceptance in place. As Eldridge Cleaver said "There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."
I "get" parody, satire & humor in the context of free speech. It doesn't necessarily make it right when the subject of the purported humor is offended.
Food for thought, I can think of very few instances of parody that is directed at vanilla white males. About the only one I can think of is Eddie Murphy's classic "white man dance". Pretty funny stuff back in the day. Thing is, people didn't go out in search of the real white dude dancing and beat him up because he dances the way he does.
Many here don't identify as a minority because they don't put themselves out there to be scrutinized as such. This parody song offends many because it perpetuates inaccurate perceptions and it is unfortunate that perception = reality to most people out there.
While following this thread, I have thought more about why I have avoided even hearing this song. It comes down to the fact that I find it to be creepy. The premise is creepy. Many out there find us to be creepy (and as has been stated already, there is no differentiation between TS, CD or everything in between among those who are not in the know).
The song doesn't speak to me in any way. It certainly doesn't mesh with my world view. I don't walk around in women's underwear. They're my underwear. I'm not necessarily offended by a song I've never heard beyond a few snippets but at the same time, I'm bothered by its existence. I don't need the words of what must be a catchy little ditty permeating my brain when I hear the real Winter Wonderland song.
If the song speaks to you and/or strikes a humous chord, hey...that's great. But please try to understand why others find it to be offensive.
Last edited by Sara Jessica; 12-24-2015 at 09:04 AM.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
Evidently some folks have their "buttons" pushed pretty easily. Just saying.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
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