Overdressed, underdressed

[AngelaYVR]

After reading through the trouser ban thread (Down with trousers! Up with skirts!), I once again came across many responses that say that wearing a skirt/dress is too much for many occasions. As I look at my closet, I can safely say that I have a skirt or skirt-like-substance for any occasion - chatty Kathy to somber Sally. What exactly makes a scenario [that you go out for, so no gardening or lawn mowing comments] wrong for a skirt?

Perhaps you girls can enlighten me with regard to what your opinions are on this whole overdressed thing. People always bring up the miniskirt and 6" heels at the mall but that is a tiresome trope. Plus, why is not ok to shop for skirts while wearing a skirt? So confusing. Actually, I have worn a mini skirt to the mall (red with patterned black cotton tights, very fashionable). 3" heels though.

Nota bene:
This isn't a thread about one being better than the other; I'm more interested in the thinking behind each outlook and choice. Fire away. My own thinking is that other women admire someone well dressed but don't like to be the one to stick their own heads above the parapet.

[ChristinaK]

I see you're from BC. I love it there! Here in America, women tend to dress down very much these days. Here in California, the trend is toward summer dresses, but back to jeans and hoodies in the winter, or worse, such as sweat pants (ugh!).

So, if you are out and about in the lower 48, most women don't wear dresses anymore. That being said, there are many times that the occasional woman can be spied wearing a dress, especially for work. Same goes for a skirt.

Thirty years ago, you couldn't go wrong wearing a skirt or dress. Yes, I'm old, and yes, I lament the loss of decorum that made women feel that was not only normal, but expected.

When I was in Middle School, 1973ish, (ouch!), our girls protested by wearing pants against school policy. They couldn't all be sent home and thus began the downfall of society (as I see it ;-)

[Judith96a]

Interesting comment about dresses and skirts in the USA.
I see many comments that basically boil down to "if you want to blend then don't wear a dress or a skirt". Yet I look around me and what do I see? GGs going about their everyday business wearing dresses and skirts. Yes, they tend to be in the minority - especially if the weather is cold and wet. But they haven't (yet) gone the way of the Dodos. Could it be yet another "culture difference" between the UK and the US?
And, by the way, I have a neighbour who frequently mows HER lawn (and weeds her flower beds) wearing a skirt.

To get more closely to the topic - I would suggest that if you're intending to do anything "at height", e.g. hanging lanterns for a school play, then a skirt is perhaps not the optimum choice of garment.
Another example that I see daily, young GGs who possess very ample behinds and thighs wearing exceedingly short skirts over thick tights or leggings. (And they flap around, flat-footedly in flimsy ballet pumps). Truly cringeworthy 'fashion'! They'll be giving the podiatrists plenty of business in a few years! Even sweatpants would be better.

[Gillian Gigs]

Climate is probably one of the biggest factors in how anyone will dress. A nice sunny hot day brings out the skirts, while who in their right mind would wear a skirt on a minus 20 C/0 F type of day! I get the impression that many women don't like to wear pantyhose/tights, so on a cold day trousers are in...yuck. Is it just CDers in what they like to wear, or guys in general who like to see a skirt, heels, and legs that just to on for ever? Judging from our photo section, legs are definitely in!

[Lily Catherine]

Given the weather my side of the world, shorts and skirts are the first choice among women, especially the former. Jeans and trousers abound nonetheless, but these are suited towards indoor environments.

A simple single-coloured dress and a pair of flats or short wedges will still get you most places as formality is somewhat understated, but for dress-down occasions shorts of varying lengths are generally the norm. Usually paired with flip-flops.

Oddly enough for someone who likes to show off their legs when dressed, I would rather go out in jeans.

[sometimes_miss]

I can safely say that I have a skirt or skirt-like-substance for any occasion

Well, you can go to a formal event in a bathing suit if you want to. But that doesn't make it a good idea. Arc welding in a skirt? Changing an exhaust system in a dress? Working in a clean room in some type of skirt-like garment while still being entirely covered to avoid any contamination? Sure. How about cleaning windows outside a high rise building in the wind? Walking in deep snow? Walking around in 30 degree weather on a very windy day. Pushing a snow blower in 15 degree weather in a blizzard? I guess you can wear a dress or skirt if you want to. Deep sea diving? Well, I guess it's possible. Space walk. Hmmm, well that might consider some doing. Let's face it, while you could wear a skirt or dress in most situations, common sense would dictate otherwise, so actually doing it just to prove a point is sort of ridiculous. The era of wearing a skirt because you are female is long over, and, unfortunately, for most of us it doesn't hide the fact that there's a guy underneath the pleats/ruffles/lace what have you.

[AllieSF]

Actually, most of the comments I have read here about not over dressing is more about the style of the dress or skirt, than about wearing a dress or skirt. I see girls and women dressed in skirts and dresses all the time when out shopping at the mall. However, they are in the minority with most wearing slacks and jeans. I see no problem wearing a skirt or dress when out shopping like that. I believe that most comments are more about wearing high heels, super short tight skirts, or looking like one is going out to dinner or dancing versus shopping for clothes. I always wear some type of skirts out shopping because I like it, I blend well and it makes it much easier when changing many times to try on clothes.

[Ally 2112]

I rarely see any girl wear dress or skirts wear i live not sure if it is the weather or the community i live in ?

[AngelaYVR]

Well, you can go to a formal event in a bathing suit if you want to. But that doesn't make it a good idea. Arc welding in a skirt? Changing an exhaust system in a dress?

These pretty much fall under my gardening/mowing the lawn scenario.

Deep sea diving? Well, I guess it's possible. Space walk.

Not really sure where you are going with this. Antagonistic attitudes usually mask deeper issues.

The era of wearing a skirt because you are female is long over, and, unfortunately, for most of us it doesn't hide the fact that there's a guy underneath the pleats/ruffles/lace what have you.

And I never claimed otherwise. My question was about the times and places for a skirt versus jeans/trousers/slacks/etc. Also, I'm fairly confident that the jeans won't hide your overwhelming maleness, either.


Everyone else seemed to get where I was headed with this thread, thanks for the replies. It's not a this is better than that type of thing. I just felt that people were perhaps overlooking the versatility and choices available. I mean, jeans are jeans pretty much but there are soooo many styles of skirts. That said, a nicely fitted [tight ] pair of jeans on an attractive woman will still turn my head!

[Katey888]

Angela - first off, well done for trying to bring some intelligent discourse to a subject that - let's face it - is actually very much in the minds of folk that get out around here.

You've touched on two aspects in your OP - the first relating to what our (CDers) opinions are, and the second alluding to how GGs form their opinions ("My own thinking is that other women admire someone well dressed...")

CDs and 'us lot' first - Judith makes a good point that I try to make whenever the fashion police are out...

I see many comments that basically boil down to "if you want to blend then don't wear a dress or a skirt". Yet I look around me and what do I see? GGs going about their everyday business wearing dresses and skirts. Yes, they tend to be in the minority - especially if the weather is cold and wet. But they haven't (yet) gone the way of the Dodos. Could it be yet another "culture difference" between the UK and the US?

Absolutely - and not just UK, US, Europe, Far East, etc., but even cities vs. provincial towns. My experience of the US over the past three decades is that they have led the way of informal dress (and for certainly longer than that). The New World has embraced that in fashion while the Old continues to have minor bastions of dress that look backwards rather than forwards. Personally, I've found the US attitude to informality refreshing (having to wear a suit for business in California in summer pales quickly...) and reflects a very egalitarian approach to life in general. But there are still situations where formal dress is part of the etiquette - although it's become something of a uniform approach...

So environment, occasion, venue, etc. plays a big part for both CDers and GGs - the big differences between them are in motivation.

For GGs their motivation may be about flying under radar or making a statement and anywhere in between: more often it's completely utilitarian but there are also clearly occasions when a particular mode is preferred, and some of that is socio-cultural and generation related. Relatively wealthy folk dress well, whether it's formal or informal - average folk generally don't have a choice or anything to dress for, so tend to be the lowest common denominator.

CDers have a totally different set and range of motivations to dress for, even when the venues and occasions are the same. You've used shopping as an example (I know you love to shop ) and your example of wearing a skirt to shop for skirts is totally valid. Many women will do the same, I'm sure. Other CDers, however, go shopping just to walk around - not to shop or interact. Within those that do either, there are further divisions between those that want to blend and not be noticed; those that positively want to be noticed; and those that don't care either way and that simply dress for themselves. There can be a huge range of desires and needs driving those three, outward behaviours, and I think if any of us are prepared to accept ourselves and our own needs, we should be tolerant and understanding enough to believe that, however outlandish the behaviour may seem to us personally, to those individuals their feelings and needs are completely valid and honest, even if they can't explain them.

Motivation is the key to behaviour for me - slightly subsidiary to that (and important but rarely touched on here, for various reasons) is capability. From what I've seen, Angela, you have a physique that will make the most of certain dress types... minis included... Not everyone has the 'best' features to pull off a particular fashion look - and (probably not unlike GGs...?) I can't help but think that the ones that decry certain fashions in public places are also not likely to be those that would look their best in those modes... That's not intended to be a judgment of folks' motivations, but it is human nature to make those sort of observations...

Katey x

[Meghan4now]

Angela,

While "advice" here may suggest that when in Rome, do as the Romans, certainly you should dress as you comfortably wish. Sure there are plenty of women out there that dress a tad bit more formal than others and not only is it fine, but I enjoy seeing it. The same is true in male mode. Business casual and even Sunday-go-meeting has gotten way casual. Sometimes it's nice to wear something a bit sportier, a nice tie, a blazer, even when others are not.

However, I do not begrudge those here that want to give advice. To them, they think they are imparting some wisdom about blending in. For many reasons, safety, keeping a low profile to avoid conflict or ridicule, and even to avoid reinforcing stereotypes they dislike. And in fairness their opinions have some thread of reality to them. Also it takes time to overcome our own prejudices. We all have them and couldn't operate without them, but as we learn more, we slowly figure out which are useful and which are detrimental.

Thanks for bringing up the topic, and I hope to see more civil and constructive conversation to follow.

Love,

[Krisi]

You can wear whatever you want, whenever you want. If you're stuck on mini skirts, that's fine.

For those of us who want to just blend in with the crowd (as women), rather than stand out, we choose to wear what women our age are wearing for the time and place. In many parts of the country, that could be jeans or tights.

I think some crossdressers get so excited about dressing as women that they feel compelled to take it too far. Too short of a skirt, too much makeup and too high heels. Some day, go to the mall and get something to eat at the food court. Watch the women walking by. Unless it's a high end mall, probably less than one in twenty will be wearing a dress or skirt. That's my observation, feel free to make your own and report back.

[michelle64]

Who in there right mind would wear hells to a mall..not me...20 gg's do but they work there...its like size 12 forms on a 150lb cd...it just makes no sense but well have at it..i have zero cares for a cd who goes home and then pens a response here about how the world is so unfair and racist towards cd's..yes virginia ..at times we are our own worst enemy

[Sara Jessica]

My reply on that other thread had to do with there being times when a dress or skirt might make a look "overcooked". I guess an elaboration would be that in these pages, wearing a dress or skirt typically includes mandatory usage of hosiery and high heels, thus contributing to an overcooked look when out & about.

Given that clarification, here in SoCal there is no shortage of women wearing skirts and dresses. However, if you are looking for the complete look that is often objectified in these pages, it is not as readily seen. That would be the distinction in my book.

Taking this a step further, the obvious choices of style beyond skirts and dresses are marvelous and utterly feminine. When there is a chill in the air, I very much look forward to jeans or leggings much more than a skirt, more often than not.

[Teresa]

Angela,
Skirts can be dressed up or down with the right shoes and stockings/tights, I guess GGs just find it easier not to have to think about it everyday and slip on trousers/jeans instead . I know which I prefer , I enjoy thinking about what combinations will work in the right situation , it's just boring wearing trousers.

[Karen RHT]

Nota bene:
This isn't a thread about one being better than the other; I'm more interested in the thinking behind each outlook and choice. Fire away. My own thinking is that other women admire someone well dressed but don't like to be the one to stick their own heads above the parapet.

Similar to what Katey pointed out, I'm quite frequently motivated to wear skirts and dresses, and very infrequently motivated to wear jeans, leggings, slacks, etc. To me it's not a matter of what society, the fashion police, or the weather suggests I should or shouldn't wear; it's about what I want to wear. Wearing stylish skirts and dresses makes me happy, raises my spirits, and helps me to enjoy my day. Given the choice, I simply prefer to wear skirts or dresses over any other type of attire. I try to make good choices in terms of style, and wear them well. That way I never feel out of place in them.

It's the same for my wife. In her younger days, she wore skirts or dresses constantly, and she wore them with grace and style no matter the occasion. Time and circumstances has changed her thinking, so now she rarely (and I do mean rarely) wears a skirt or dress. As much as that habit disappoints me, she has her reasons for making the change, and has every right to do so.


Karen

[AngelaYVR]

Wow, some really great replies! Katey, I doff my wide brimmed hat at your meticulous response!

When I go out, drawing attention to myself is not my goal but I know that it is unavoidable at times. I feel that I have a good sense of style and that my outfit is always appropriate albeit quite different to the majority (but thankfully, not always). Life is short, I hope everyone here gets to revel in the small, daily pleasures of life and are doing what makes them happy, be it in yoga pants or a polka dot dress.

[Lorileah]

I am a woman. I rarely wear slacks. In the winter I may wear leggings or tights with a short jumper type skirt. And yet...all I get is compliments from people. But maybe it is where you go MORE than what you wear. All this talk about "blending" is smoke. Most people couldn't tell you what another wore while they were in the mall. Skirts, pants, shorts (here in Colorado people wear shorts and ski parkas at 20 degrees out. even flip flops.)

When I am in the suburbs, yes the outfit of choice for women seems to be yoga pants and a tunic. When downtown, women wear business suits (with skirts and heels frequently) or colorful dresses. When I go to the country, jeans are the norm (and in RE one post above, I will tell you a country girl will do mechanic work in whatever she has on, and shorts or a skort is not unheard of)

So, my take is dress as you like. You will find YOUR comfort zone. You wear 4 inch heels and a 5 inch mini, you will get looks. If you like it, who cares? But quit throw every woman into a pile. It often depends on what they are doing and honestly shopping brings out the style...unless you are shopping in a lower end store. The old saying is dress for the job you WANT. I want to look classy and good.

[flatlander_48]

The idea of Blending really does nothing for me. In fact, in most situations, it would involve lowering my personal standards and I would resist that. I'm 67 and what I remember is that people dressed (albeit not quite like going to church, however) when going downtown or to airports or to the shopping center, and later, the mall. And, one of the first shopping centers in the country opened in my home town of Toledo in 1958. But I am not begrudging folks from wearing what they want even if it may, or may not, be tacky. That's not my problem.

All that said, pants are an easier option for me. Due to scaring on my lower legs, I often don't like to be uncovered. Beyond pants, other options with skirts and dresses are opaque tights or regular stockings and body makeup. Anyway, I like pants, skirts and dresses all in roughly equal preference.

DeeAnn

[grace7777]

Lately when I go shopping I try to not be overly dressed. One can wear a skirt or a dress and yet be casual. I try to wear clothes that I feel comfortable in and yet make me feel good about myself. Mini skirts are not personally my thing, but I have worn skirts and dresses a few inches above the knee.

Most of the time when shopping at the mall I am skirted, but the last time I went shopping I did wear slacks. Also, if I anticipate trying on clothes I want to wear stuff that I can take off easily.

[TaraGrace]

hi,

as I've just said 'hi world' only a few days ago, it's a bit hard to throw in my experience,
so I'm happy to throw in some thoughts that came to mind and perhaps add a bit too..

I live in the Netherlands, which despite being very liberal in many ways is (outside of Amsterdam) extremely dull.
There's a rule for everything (correction, there's probably multiple rules), and the general 'just be normal, that's crazy enough' is not a cliche, it's the standard. Stand out and people will hate it (if you look good or not).

Despite Holland having some famous designers, everyday fashion is dull, if there is a trend it is followed by almost every chain cheap or expensive, and it often is just missing the mark, sizes are bought +1 size up per default etc. (and that's for both men and women).. it's actually the main reason I go to shop in the UK, Germany or Belgium (or use webshops from those countries).

You even see it in cars.. for years the most common sold color of a vehicle (despite model or brand) is grey, it's on the news each year and has been like this for as long as I can remember.

Ok, sorry for the long introduction, but trying to set the atmosphere for the following; in the last 10-15 years we had had a lot of foreigners from eastern europe join us, especially from Poland. And I do know a fair amount, since my best friend (an ex-girlfriend actually) originally is from Poland.

During a Polish party with bands etc. some years back, she and her girlfriends said they could determine how many years a Polish girl had been living in the Netherlands based on her clothing.. and in unbelieve I challenged them to prove it.. and so they did, either nailing it exactly or being of by 1 year.

The thing is.. appearances matter more abroad then they do here, where newcommers from Poland (or other countries) are in their first of second year here they spend a lot of resources on looking their best.. the longer they are here, the more comfort kicks in.. heels turn to flats, mini to knee, to pants, to whatever is dry on the washing line. etc.
And last but not least.. the long 'sigh' that dutch men simply don't know how to flirt.. so why bother

I've even gone as far as ask some of my dutch girlfriends if this was true from a native dutch woman's point of view, and they'll feel offended and disagree.. untill I bring up 'so do you dress up differently on vacation abroad' which is mostly followed by a 'of course, thank goodness the Italians (or Spanish, or Greek, or...) know how to flirt, that makes it all worth it!

So.. that in mind I think about two or three years ago, a popular radio station introduced 'rokjes dag' (skirts day), and variants of that have been picked up by 2 or 3 other stations too. And what happend, a rapid increase of skirts everywhere.
I'm not sure if it's "well everybody will be doing it, so I have to" or "finally, it's socially acceptable on a nice sunny day" but skirts are slowly coming back in.. and I have to say I love it.. if you don't have skirts day yet, let your local radio station know

[nikkiwindsor]

I would hope that people can simply where what they'd like to where. My wife rarely wears dresses and skirts. She's never really like them. She's far more comfortable wearing a shirt paired with jeans or chinos. As for me, the exact opposite. I'll love wearing dresses, hose or tights, and heels even though it's more uncomfortable than a shirt and pants. She doesn't like to call attention to herself while I don't mind.

[Sara Jessica]

The idea of Blending really does nothing for me. In fact, in most situations, it would involve lowering my personal standards and I would resist that.

So if I choose to dress to blend in, my standards are somehow lower than yours?

It amazes me to see how some of us lack "polish" by not adopting certain feminine trappings 100% of the time. I guess I lack the same polish as 99% of other women out there, so be it.

[flatlander_48]

No, it is a commentary on how things have evolved over the last 67 years. What I do or do not do has NO Bearing on whatever you or anyone else does. I think we've fallen into this slacker sort of mentality and I refuse to go along with it. It's as simple as that. I did not say that you, or anyone else, had to follow my lead.

As the vast majority of mothers in the universe have probably said: "If your friends are going to walk off a cliff, are you going to walk off that cliff with them?".

Majority in no way implies rightness or correctness.

DeeAnn

[Jenniferathome]

...wearing a skirt/dress is too much for many occasions.

...why is not ok to shop for skirts while wearing a skirt?

...My own thinking is that other women admire someone well dressed but don't like to be the one to stick their own heads above the parapet.

Angela, on these three points:

If one compares the average dress code these days, a skirt is less common than pants and a dress is less common than a skirt, in general. So, is a skirt "too much"? No, but it is less common and therefore, appears more dressy even though it is not.

My wife says that it is easier to shop for clothes in pants and a top because she can then try on any thing. If you wore a dress to shop, for example, you certainly cannot leave the dressing room wearing pants or a skirt! My wife always exits the dressing room t look at the outfit in better light. Does one know that the ONLY thing they will but is a particular item: dress, skirt, pants, top?

Lastly, I do not agree. I don't think women really look at it that way. We, cross dressers <men>, notice because we are cross dressing men. To a woman, it is just another woman wearing clothes. Whenever I see a woman out and about in a dress and she is the only one in a dress int he crowd, she is not fidgeting or looking about and no one is looking at her. It's "normal" even though she is the only one. It was just a clothing choice for her. I doubt a woman in pants and a top even registers the woman in a dress. Now, change that "in a dress" description to "in sky high heels, sequined bodycon dress, huge earrings and other blingy jewelry and everyone is sure to notice.