Revoking my trans identity - it doesn't belong to me anymore

[jenni_xx]

Hey all

Recently I created a thread entitled "Is the world today leaving us here behind", in which a lot of posters here contributed to. I was criticised, both within the thread itself and in private messages, for this thread.

I created that thread because, as someone who identifies as transgender, and thus has an obvious vested interest in any trans-related reporting, I was becoming concerned with a perceived back-lash that had seemingly sprung up in response to the many trans-related stories that were adorning the media. So much so, that a "meme" (of sorts) has resulted from this. Namely "trans-peak" - whereby people post their thoughts/feelings, and come from the perspective of, to paraphrase "I was ok with trans, but now it has become too much, and now I've reached my own personal peak, and now I'm not ok with it anymore".


It's now approximately one month since I posted that thread. And things, for me personally, have gotten a lot worse.

To give you a bit of background into why, before I proceed with the reason for creating this thread...

I am out. All my friends and family know. I was rejected by many, and accepted by few, and it was those that accepted me that I clung to, who helped me overcome the loss of others (friends, as family). I'm also gay. I came out as gay long after coming out as trans, and (this is only my own experience), more people accepted me for being gay than they did for being trans. Interestingly, some who didn't accept me as being trans finally did AFTER I came out as gay. Take from that what you will. (I certainly did.)

Anyway, recently I've spent some time searching the net, finding forums, reading (lurking) the thoughts of others. This is coupled with (occasionally) posting on here. And it's led me to (for me) an inescapable conclusion.

I can no longer identify with the trans community. I simply do not like what it has become. I do not agree with the trans-activists who have become so vocal. I do not agree with the way children, who when expressing a preference for toys, colours, or clothing, are being identified as trans (when in the past they were referred to as tom-boys, or girly-boys (note the use of the word "boy" in both scenarios), many of whom who went through such actually ended up not being trans at all.

I don't like the way kids today are being bracketed, labelled, and encouraged down a specific path, instead of being simply allowed to explore themselves and simply enjoy what they want to, at a specific time (childhood) without being labelled or identified in any way that could end up having a life-long consequence for them.

(That, funnily enough, was one of the reasons why I posted my previous thread. I couldn't help but feel that if I was born today, I would end up being a teenager on hormone blockers, set in concrete into a specific category, a category that doesn't include the word term "crossdresser" (which is what I actually am). I would have been identified as a boy who wanted to BE a girl, instead of being identified as a boy who simply wanted to WEAR the same clothes that girls did!)

I can not relate to the individuals who are being put forth as being spokespeople for the trans-community. I am tempted to name individuals at this point, but I'll refrain from doing so, in order to avoid offending any one here.

And I can not abide, after expressing my own thoughts and opinions, in places that I thought would be accepting of me and at the least value my opinion, even if they didn't agree with it, being told that I have to temper my own approach - which simply put equates to being told I have to temper myself if I want to "fit in".

So for all of these reasons, I no longer want to be any part of this community. Because this community no longer represents or reflects who I am.

[Pat]

Let me suggest that you've fallen into a trap of letting being transgender define you rather than describe you. When you let it define you then you have to "follow the rules" you have to align to the expectations, you have duties and commitments. But that's not what being transgender is. You are an individual with your own views and experiences. You can also say of yourself that you are a transgender individual -- nothing about your views or experiences has to change because of that. "Discovering" that principle cleared a lot of angst for me. I hope it can for you too.

[jenni_xx]

Thanks for your reply Jennie-cd

Let me put it this way.

I am an individual, with my own views and experiences. My views and experiences do not equate to the views and experiences of the trans-community. Ergo, I no longer identify with the trans-community. That doesn't mean that I don't regard myself as trans. It simply means that I no longer have, or want, any affiliation with the trans community. That community no longer speaks to me, or for me.

[suzanne]

First of all, I hope you find peace of mind, wherever you end up. That seems to be what most of the people you are leaving behind are seeking.

What seems to be happening in the world around us is an attempt to understand all the types of gender and serial identities that have come to light. The world does this by categorizing. Unfortunately, no one fits neatly into any one category. We are who we are; unique. Parts of us fit one box or another, but not completely. Moreover, we are also at different points in our personal journeys, which may be more similar than first appears. I now treasure this diversity in a way I didn't earlier in my life.

It is ironic that some participants in this forum seem to be saying "This is what a crossdresser is, or isn't" in a way that seems to invalidate an alternate viewpoint. Everyone here has felt the sting of the bi -gendered world's condemnation and want to find inclusiveness. To then turn on another and knock them for being different is incomprehensible. All in all, I find more positives here than negatives.

[pamela7]

Good luck Jennie, i think you touch on deeper problems in society here. xxx Pamela

[Shelly Preston]

Jenni

The trouble is the trans community is so diverse. Almost anything that gets said someone will have an issue with. Caitlyn Jenner is a good example. She has undoubtedly raised the profile of transgender issues but not everyone agrees with how she did it or what she says.

You can still be part of the community and an individual too.

[jenni_xx]

It is ironic that some participants in this forum seem to be saying "This is what a crossdresser is, or isn't" in a way that seems to invalidate an alternate viewpoint.

I don't necessarily think this is a slight on this forum in particular (at least, not from what I've seen), but I completely agree with the intent behind your comment here. If some in this forum are doing that, then shame on them. I have no time for that at all.

To expand on your point, I don't even know what the word "gender" means any more. I've heard the comment "gender is a social construct" too many times to mention, that when I see it mentioned again I roll my eyes. Yet I do so without giving it much thought. Then I did think about it. And that led me to thinking...

...If gender is a social construct, then it only has meaning in a social context. If Society deems "pink" for boys and "blue" for girls, then would male crossdressers be more attracted to blue rather than pink, just because "society says so"?

I banged my head against a wall trying to wrap my (now bruised) head around this idea. I've read posts on here saying how men in the 17th century wore heels, make-up, wigs, presuming to myself that the intent behind such sentiments was that it's ok for men to wear heels, make-up, wigs, 300 years later. But then I thought, if that was indeed the case, then would the male crossdressers of today be wanting to wear heels, make-up, and wigs?

Or would the male cross-dressers of today wanting to be wearing the female garb of today, irrespective of how drab it was or wasn't? They would just be attracted to it because it was more associated with what women wore?

I'm struggling to wrap my head around that to be honest.

Could it be that male crossdressers are attracted to female things, in order to express a female identity that ultimately distances themselves from the pressures that society puts upon men within that society? That is, it becomes an escape from themselves?

The only mind one can never escape from is their own. Is THAT the reason/rationale behind all of this? Which maybe would suggest that the one thing that binds crossdressers together is a sensitivity that enables us to see the world, or rather want to see the world in which we live from a different point of view?

I'm sorry, I'm rambling, it's just that I can't help myself from thinking about such things!

[Tracii G]

I will go out on a limb here and say I feel a lot like you do jenni.
I really have a problem with some that are in activist mode all the time and try to force their agenda on me. I'm a firm believer in you do your thing I'll do mine and leave me alone.
There have been many on other sites that bash me for my views and say I need to be one thing or another and to them I say you have no right to tell me what or what not to do.One said I was not femme enough and I should quit trying to be trans WTH? This girl was 18 and a total activist and I told her I have been trans longer than she has been alive and that started a poo storm.
I was told to lower my rhetoric and be more accepting. OMG I accept everyone until they step on my toes then I will say what needs to be said.
Bashed for being conservative because all TG"s have to fit the liberal dogma and be a left wing type.Sorry thats not going to happen anytime soon LOL.
One gay site where a member said I wasn't gay enough to be a forum member WTH again ???
I give up on so many sites because I am what I am and that doesn't fit their mold so I don't seem welcome there.
That really shows the trans movement is full of haters too.
The more I hear gender binary or social construct it makes me want to hurl.LOL

[flatlander_48]

I can no longer identify with the trans community.

I assume you are clear that one's identity is separate from the community?

I simply do not like what it has become. I do not agree with the trans-activists who have become so vocal.

In another thread, I might have said "Well behaved women seldom make history.". People becoming local just has to happen. Public opinion, and subsequently laws, don't change with silence. I believe it was ACT-UP that coined the phrase "Silence = Death". Things NEVER move quickly enough, but they would move even slower without people being vocal. For example, if people were not vocal, would we have Marriage Equality now? Remember that people have been working on that issue for decades.

I do not agree with the way children, who when expressing a preference for toys, colours, or clothing, are being identified as trans (when in the past they were referred to as tom-boys, or girly-boys (note the use of the word "boy" in both scenarios), many of whom who went through such actually ended up not being trans at all.

Unless we have intimate details of many different situations, I don't see how any of us can make a definitive statement. I am a parent, although mine are beyond "kids" at 40 and 34. I would not make such a move unless I was quite certain that was what needed to happen. I assume that would be the case for the majority of parents. There are also legalities involved in that doctors cannot prescribe drugs without sound medical reasons. Your statement "...many of whom who went through such actually ended up not being trans at all." sounds anecdotal. If you can back that up with statistics or definitive statements by well-respected medical personnel, please do so. Otherwise it's basically spurious text.

DeeAnn

[jenni_xx]

Jenni

The trouble is the trans community is so diverse. Almost anything that gets said someone will have an issue with. Caitlyn Jenner is a good example. She has undoubtedly raised the profile of transgender issues but not everyone agrees with how she did it or what she says.

You can still be part of the community and an individual too.

Caitlyn Jenner is a joke to me. As far removed from society and no clue about how society operates as one can be. It saddens me that such a person can raise the profile of any community, while being so distant from it. I have no time for her at all.

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Tracii G

Thank you so much for your comment. You have hit the nail on the head for me.

What you have wrote, and what I am hinting at, is essentially about an inability of others who, while striving to make the "mainstream" accept diversity, are themselves unwilling to let diversity in.

[Rachael Leigh]

I really see your point in many areas here jenni, I agree that many will not always fall in line on the agenda others have, gender is so much of a mystery in many ways and I guess we see a lot of different ways its expressed.
To me male and female are the born identities we have based on our organs and to some extent DNA but as we all know gender identity can be very different and for me I still get confused over all the research, so to your point we all must decide where we fit and what we choose to support, this site has always shown an openess to many different people and expressions and Im greatful for that.

[Tracii G]

This site has always been the best trans site because its all inclusive.
Other sites seem to be focused on the porn/fetish side.

[jenni_xx]

I assume you are clear that one's identity is separate from the community?

Yes of course I am clear about that. I assume however you are clear that in such a community, it is all to easy to bracket people as being one and the same?

In another thread, I might have said "Well behaved women seldom make history.". People becoming local just has to happen. Public opinion, and subsequently laws, don't change with silence. I believe it was ACT-UP that coined the phrase "Silence = Death". Things NEVER move quickly enough, but they would move even slower without people being vocal. For example, if people were not vocal, would we have Marriage Equality now? Remember that people have been working on that issue for decades.

To which I would simply respond - the loudest voice does not speak for me. I refer you to your earlier comment about identity being separate from community. The only person who can truly speak for you is yourself.

Your statement "...many of whom who went through such actually ended up not being trans at all." sounds anecdotal. If you can back that up with statistics or definitive statements by well-respected medical personnel, please do so. Otherwise it's basically spurious text.

Have you ever seen a teenage girl go through a tom-boy stage in her childhood? Have you ever met an effeminate male who isn't gay or who doesn't want to be a woman? How can you seriously reduce my comment here to "spurious text"?

[Alice Torn]

jenni_xx, I feel a lot the same way, being an extreme individualist loner that i am. I cannot stand anyone left or right, or in between, putting me into a box! Some of us havw so many sidw to us, that only "complex person" seems to fit! As for kids, I have never been a dad, and cannot imagine putting them in a box for life. Most of us are pretty complex, and i would guess most here agree to some extent.

[Tracii G]

I'm all for kids being kids and deciding what they like to play with.Most will grow out of things because they have so many phases they go thru.
To box a kid up just seems wrong to me.I think a lot of parents read too much into things a kid does and won't let them just be kids.

[Sarah-RT]

Box's can be troublesome I'll agree. There really is no answer on them as everyone is different. Non binary people hate box's as they identify as all or neither depending. Then like myself I only want to be in a box, when I dress I identify as female and only wish to be in that box. Transitioners I assume are the same in that regard.
For those discovering themselves box's can help, I found when I began to realise what I was doing was out of the ordinary clinged to the word crossdresser because it was something, it helped explain that was I was doing was a thing and I wasn't entirely weird but I don't associate with the definition of it anymore.

I can agree when you say some are too vocal, I wouldn't critique that they are vocal but simply more vocal than I would be or believe things should be a certain way. I've encountered it here and I've seen it in person. I know gay people who dislike the overly vocal in their part of the LGBT community but freedom of speech and all that.

It's perfectly fine not to agree with what everyone else is saying, you conclude that you are trans but disillusioned with the community and there is nothing wrong with that. If you can accept what you are and carry on without the need to connect with similar people that isn't a problem, that's your choice.

[flatlander_48]

I assume however you are clear that in such a community, it is all to easy to bracket people as being one and the same?

No. Being part of a community or supporting a community does NOT mean that everyone is exactly the same. It is ludicrous to think so. However, what you will find is that people will want to claim that because of some ulterior motive. Restroom access by transgender people is a case in point. In order to highlight this issue, people claim that their concern is having women attacked by males pretending to be females. That casts an aspersion on the ENTIRE transgender M2F population, and not unintentionally. By that logic do we assume that EVERY male is a rapist?

To which I would simply respond - the loudest voice does not speak for me. I refer you to your earlier comment about identity being separate from community. The only person who can truly speak for you is yourself.

In recent times my soon to be former employer (I am in the process of retiring) added transgender health benefits to the program. Last year the total coverage amount was raised. For 12 years I was a part of the LGBT employee resource group. We put the issue in front of corporate management and continued to do so in spite of the fact that NONE of us (current members) would benefit, including me as I have no plans to transition. By your statement, since not of us could speak to that issue, I guess it wouldn't/shouldn't have happened. Is that what you want? Or, perhaps if the group doesn't speak for you, any gains that are made should not be applied to you? That would seem fair.

So, at some point you do have to speak collectively, even if it isn't the particular constituency. How would you expect change to happen? The thing is, regarding social issues if people don't speak up, NOTHING happens. The same was true for the Women's Movement, the Civil Rights Movement, the Gay Rights Movement, et al. If progress was so easy, it would happen by itself, but it never seems to work that way. On more than one occasion people complained exactly as you have about some group being too strident, too In Your Face, etc. But, those did see success and it would NOT have happened without people being willing to speak up. I've been around for all 3 and what I said is exactly how it worked.

Have you ever seen a teenage girl go through a tom-boy stage in her childhood? Have you ever met an effeminate male who isn't gay or who doesn't want to be a woman? How can you seriously reduce my comment here to "spurious text"?

One data point doesn't mean much. It doesn't speak to probabilities, trends; nothing. It can't. You cannot drive change on a handful, or less, of data points. That doesn't really have anything to do with your opinion. The only thing I'm trying to get at is whether it is based on reall, verifiable information or is it just rhetoric.

DeeAnn

[OCCarly]

Jenni, you have to walk your own path. No one can do that for you. If you do not like the transgender label, then don't wear it. If you do not want to be categorized, then don't be. And maybe hormone blockers and a childhood transition would not have been the thing for you. But they most assuredly would have been the right thing for me. I know myself well enough and have been struggling with myself long enough to know for a certainty that I need to have a feminine face and body. Not want, need. To keep my blood pressure down. To stop the panic attacks. To keep me sane, alive and healthy.

It's funny. I come to this forum specifically because it is an island of sanity in the middle of a maelstrom of shifting politics, attitudes, and ideas. The population here is mostly older, established, and long on sanity and wisdom and I like it here for those reasons. I hope you will reconsider leaving us.

[reb.femme]

...I really have a problem with some that are in activist mode all the time and try to force their agenda on me. I'm a firm believer in you do your thing I'll do mine and leave me alone...

Hi Jenni,

Very much what Tracii said. I get fed up with the wild campaigners affiliated to my social circle and their mad at times, rantings and leftist political rhetoric. But, what I do is let them get on with it and ignore heavily. Life is too short to be constantly angry.

...One gay site where a member said I wasn't gay enough to be a forum member WTH again ???...

Obviously only a four or lower on a scale of one to ten Tracii . As per Tracii's response, think WTF and move on. I am a crossdresser and therefore by standard the descriptor, transgender. So, as Jennie-cd said, it describes you but does not define you, it's how it is for me. Let it be your mantra! I am me and I am unique, thank the lord for that says my wife.

[susan54]

There is a certain accuracy in this allegation- there are people on this site who seem to insist on certain behaviour in others. For examle there are those who say you HAVE to dress to blend in or you HAVE to wear women's trousers or you are not being serious. Just accept we are all different and do what WE want to do. I like to wear women's outfits based on skirts and dresses. I like to look good in these clothes and this includes a bra and forms. If I say that doesn't make me transgender then it doesn't. It is just ACTING. I only identify as male.

A little more acceptance of variation would not go amiss. This only applies to a small number of people on here - please accept we are all different.

[lynnef]

There is a certain accuracy in this allegation- there are people on this site who seem to insist on certain behaviour in others. For examle there are those who say you HAVE to dress to blend in or you HAVE to wear women's trousers or you are not being serious. Just accept we are all different and do what WE want to do. I like to wear women's outfits based on skirts and dresses. I like to look good in these clothes and this includes a bra and forms. If I say that doesn't make me transgender then it doesn't. It is just ACTING. I only identify as male.

A little more acceptance of variation would not go amiss. This only applies to a small number of people on here - please accept we are all different.

I've noticed this myself a few times,
when I post pictures, on occasion i've been asked why I don't use makeup or wear jewelry/etc... now there are people who do wear lots of makeup and jewelry, which is of course their choice, and many look rather nice with it, i just don't want to deal with it, plus I woudn't know how anyways.... (i'm also not going to be the first woman in my direct family to wear makeup :P )

yes, we *are* all different, we are different ages, situations, and also in different places on the gender/sexuality continuum (sp?) for example, I'm a homoromantic(attracted to women), grey-asexual (not for sex necessarily), non-op transgender woman (self-explanatory :P), does that make me less valid than a person who may be my opposite? nope. just different, and different is good, otherwise everything would be (valley girl) Sooooo BoooooorrrriIIInnnngggg. (/valley girl)

so no, i don't think there's any need to revoke your Transcard(tm), as only you can define it

[jenni_xx]

No. Being part of a community or supporting a community does NOT mean that everyone is exactly the same. It is ludicrous to think so. However, what you will find is that people will want to claim that because of some ulterior motive. Restroom access by transgender people is a case in point. In order to highlight this issue, people claim that their concern is having women attacked by males pretending to be females. That casts an aspersion on the ENTIRE transgender M2F population, and not unintentionally. By that logic do we assume that EVERY male is a rapist?

I didn't say that it was. Why you have chosen to mention a particular (important) issue in response I don't quite understand. What you have mentioned here is not what I am talking about. That is a specific issue, that does need to be addressed, but it doesn't need to be addressed to me, in respect of my response to you. My point was clear: while it is all too easy to bracket people as being one and the same, this is CLEARLY NOT the case. Your response is to seemingly agree with this. Thus you seem to be arguing against my point while making the exact same point I am intent on making. In this respect, I don't understand why you have chosen to respond to me in the manner that you have.

Oh, but then, hang on a moment, in the very same post of yours, you go on to say the following: "at some point you do have to speak collectively". Which drives exactly at the heart of what I am actually arguing against. I say, no, I don't have to speak collectively. The only way *I* could speak collectively, or rather have my voice heard *collectively* and agreed with *collectively* is if the community to which I am speaking about agree with what I am saying *collectively*.

Yet that is completely at odds to what I was actually trying to say when I created this post. My point is that how I feel DOES NOT equate to the collective voice. And it's for that reason that I don't want this collective voice to speak for me. For they do not represent who I am. And it's for this reason that, because I, as a single person, can not change that collective voice, then I have chosen to distance myself from that collective. They do not speak for me, so therefore I am not part of them.

One data point doesn't mean much. It doesn't speak to probabilities, trends; nothing. It can't.

Yet you have chosen to use one example to make your point (when you talked about YOUR experience with your "soon to be former employer".

Nonetheless, I asked a question "have you ever seen" - to which you didn't respond by saying yes you have or no you haven't. Go back and read my question again, and this time please, try to answer directly. I can cite several examples of this, but they are all anecdotal - admittedly - yet they are still examples that are widespread and common - hence why they have become a stereotype with their OWN identification - eg, tom boy, girly boy, effeminate, etc etc. These are real examples that happen and occur all the time and to deny them is to be ignorant of the truth. What is important is, not to deny that such exists (for they do), but to try and understand why such identities exist. For that is to get to the heart of the matter.

[Krisi]

I know the word "community" gets thrown around quite a bit. "African American community", gay community, transsexual community, etc. Personally, I think it's a crock. "Community" to me means a neighborhood, not a bunch of people from all over the country or all over the world. There's no way every black person, every gay person or every transsexual person feels the same about everything. It's just a way of trying to justify or amplify an agenda.

I don't feel like I am a member of any "community" except for the one I live in.

[jenni_xx]

I know the word "community" gets thrown around quite a bit. "African American community", gay community, transsexual community, etc. Personally, I think it's a crock. "Community" to me means a neighborhood, not a bunch of people from all over the country or all over the world. There's no way every black person, every gay person or every transsexual person feels the same about everything. It's just a way of trying to justify or amplify an agenda.

I don't feel like I am a member of any "community" except for the one I live in.

That's just one definition of the word of the word community. That is "a group of people living in the same place"

The other definition being: "having a particular characteristic in common"

One doesn't necessarily exclude the other, nor is one dependent upon the other. Both have equal meaning, and in turn, equal value. To dismiss one as "crock", while adhering to the other, is just, well, silly.

While you correctly state that there's "no way every black person, every gay person... feels the same about everything", there's also no way that people who live in the same area feel the same about everything either. Yet you ascribe value to one, while dismissing the other as "a crock".

[Kate T]

....I've heard the comment "gender is a social construct" too many times to mention, that when I see it mentioned again I roll my eyes. Yet I do so without giving it much thought. Then I did think about it. And that led me to thinking...

...If gender is a social construct, then it only has meaning in a social context. If Society deems "pink" for boys and "blue" for girls, then would male crossdressers be more attracted to blue rather than pink, just because "society says so"?

I banged my head against a wall trying to wrap my (now bruised) head around this idea. I've read posts on here saying how men in the 17th century wore heels, make-up, wigs, presuming to myself that the intent behind such sentiments was that it's ok for men to wear heels, make-up, wigs, 300 years later. But then I thought, if that was indeed the case, then would the male crossdressers of today be wanting to wear heels, make-up, and wigs?

Gender is not a social construct. Gender is real. Otherwise TS'ism would not exist. Gender EXPRESSION is socially constructed and dependent at times.

Caitlyn Jenner is a joke to me. As far removed from society and no clue about how society operates as one can be. It saddens me that such a person can raise the profile of any community, while being so distant from it. I have no time for her at all.

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Tracii G

Thank you so much for your comment. You have hit the nail on the head for me.

What you have wrote, and what I am hinting at, is essentially about an inability of others who, while striving to make the "mainstream" accept diversity, are themselves unwilling to let diversity in.

Reread your entire post above carefully Jenni and beware of the insidious bigotry that can infect us very easily. You want to claim true diversity and rail against apparent (and sometimes real) prejudices, but in the same breath will happily exclude someone who has done nothing other than try to be herself and understand herself the way she feels best and present that to others.