Originally Posted by donnaS
If that isn't a confirmation that, if given the chance, some SOs would be willing to try at least, nothing is. Note my signature from Mr Rogers. It is true but you have to let the other person have all the pieces to make that work.
Now you know you need to talk this out with her. Having a professional there can help facilitate it. She has given you the chance...use it.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Donna, one thing that has helped me immensely, is read every damn word from the GG's on this site. Not all of them are going to have a similar situation as what my wife and I have, but there are remarkable commonalities to so much, even from those who are not in the same type of situation.
Another, actually tune into your own fem side for advice.... The upgrade to the ring.... that is guy thinking right there. the engagement ring, something even say a 1/4c will be more special simply because of what it means, and what you could afford at the time. So that ring will always mean more than just a big huge rock as an upgrade. Think of how she feels, as how you would feel too. It is a strange paradox that keeps my marriage together, because many of my better qualities are from my fem side. My wife has acknowledged this.
Loving yourself is a big key. Being ok with yourself, forgiving yourself because you have this strange condition called human. Learn where gender isn't always the center, but love is. There is hope from what you have recently posted. A lot of work perhaps, but it sounds like she is not willing to pack her bags yet.
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
You and others in this thread assume she is sexually turned off strictly because of the CDing. I don't think this is true. It may be only one of several factors and if you resolve the rest, the CDing might become maneuverable.
My 30 year marriage to a non-CDer ended because I eventually got so turned off sexually that I could not have sex with him. Had he been a CDer, I'm sure I would have had THAT to explain it away (the CDing is a highly visible thing), but as it was I could only assume I had become frigid. I did not know why I felt this way and this explains the degree to which many of us are not self-aware. He was a successful man, outgoing, a great dad and everyone loved him. We went to four different marriage counselors. The first was getting to the truth but my ex didn't like him. The second was helping us get to the truth in a way that did not offend my ex, but she was called out of town suddenly to care for an ailing parent. The third thought I was crazy and suggested we get a divorce. At this point my ex was ready to move on, but I was not. We went to a fourth, but he was no help because my ex was by this time mentally done.
It turned out there were deep issues in our marriage that were unresolved, all having to do with our dynamics together. Both of us had an inability to determine what our deep-seated non-sexual needs were, what we needed emotionally from the other and so neither of us was able to communicate it. Both of us had made up stories about the other in our minds over the years and read things in each other's behaviors that were not there. I don't want to get into all the details, but despite all of this he was able to still have sex (he's a man), while for me everything else needed to be resolved before I could let go again. We ended up divorcing.
I'm in a relationship with my SO now and I no longer think I am frigid. I don't have the baggage with my SO that I had with my ex. My ex is also in a relationship and no doubt they are happy too. But the cost on your children and on me (I feel I lost my family) was huge.
This is just to say that I think you will need to find a very good marital counselor who is able to look past superficial issues in both yourself and your wife. We all are complex individuals.
Last edited by ReineD; 01-28-2016 at 03:25 PM.
Reine
Reine, thank you for the uplifting post. You and I went the same route in our failed marriage. I feel you pointed the OP in the right direction and did not do the pile on thing and put the OP down for just being human. After all this is a support site, but as others have said....the holier than thou and keyboard preachers seem to want to kick a person when they are down.
I wish Donna nothing but the best in life and now that she and the wife have come to an understanding I wish them only smooth sailing and happiness. Donna, just remember communication, consideration will take you far in your marriage. Keep us posted on how things turn out for you both andto you and Reine.
Ok Donna,
Your wifes response should be an excellent guide. Sounds like she is still in the marriage. You need to decide if you are too. There are some really great points here, Reine and Lorileah have good advice, and Tracii also has good points (even if they are tough).
It really comes down to normal marital relationship building, CDING is merely a side note or extra stressor here.
Only you can determine if you made mistake getting married again, and BTW it has nothing to do with whether or not you should have stayed in a previous relationship. If you Did make a mistake, only you will be able to discern what to do about it.
I am encouraged that: 1 you are recognizing the importance of knowing and loving yourself, and 2. You might just learn how to listen. Remember you have two ears and one mouth.
I must enlighten a little more.
I have always crossdressed.
I had just started to want transition when the last relationship blew up. Which was totally fine with her.
Because of her drug addiction.
After the counselor told her no more handling the family finances see turned on Donna and said no more. I was devastated. After all I had been thru with the ex. She attacked me at that point.
So back in the shell I went.
Like so many others I denied it and covered it up. Wrong! Here it came with full vengeance. I was remarried by now.
I guess I need that touch to feel love. The intimate touch to know I'm connected to that person. Cheating doesn't fix that I know. But crave that feeling of connection. And cheating is all false feeling. I know a marriage doesn't center on intimacy. But I've been broken.
Counseling starts in Feb.
thank you all for the harshness and advice. It is what it is. I'm a work in progress. And it's hard work.
Hugs
Donna
Telling a member here they look pretty isn't cheating because all you are doing is paying a compliment.
Tracii
Yes that's all I mean it to be.
But in the past relationship.......
I know I know got to let all that go.
If only I can only get the tears to stop flowing.
With the least amount of words possible to voice my conviction on this. I have close to 50 years of experience on this subject.
Yes Cheating is cheating, there is no question on that. You are really asking about justification. That is your decision and yours alone.
Advise, I have none because I never had a wife to take a hard line like you describe but I can honestly say I wouldn't cheat. I'd get a divorce if her mind was set and I knew I wasn't going to change. But that's me.
Good luck, sounds like you are in a hard spot and will either do what you know is right or make excuses for doing what feels good. You wouldn't be looking for outside answers if you didn't already know the answer/truth.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Fran
It's worth something just being around to Fuss!
Yes.
It would be best to resolve your issue some other way.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
based on what you have said divorce would be better for both of you, she obviously goes for controlling men and you escaped a controlling woman, too many weird psycosexual dynamics at play. run for the hills but be polite on the way out.
If shes not ready for sex, yet you need physical touch and shes open to continueing to explore your marriage with you then I'll suggest massage or other similiar ways to stay connected or reconnect. Leave sex out of it for now so that neither of you feel under pressure, but this might at least help you to redevelop your connectedness. You two can work your way back to sex when you're both ready. Just a suggestion and I hope everything works out for you.
hi Donna,
Credits to putting yourself open to critical feedback, that at least is a step.
I will not bash a mistake for the sake of bashing.
Also I won't give you my opinion on what to do with your relationship, as that essentially is a decision the both of you need to make together (unless one of you one-sidedly comes to a strong decision to end things prior)
But I would like to give you some good advice in general, seeing as you two do seem to be able to talk, that if you want to understand your partner better, and if she wants the same: talk more!
And there's the point where I can give some good advice : there are many ways to do that more effective (many of which are online suprisingly enough in basic sales training excersizes!
For instance google "open ended questions" and look for examples.
- Ask "open ended questions", not closed ones (that can be answer with yes or no).. easy tip to remember, those questions start with "what", "how" and "why"
- Follow up an open ended question with another open ended question on something your partner said in her answer
- Once you think "ok, now I understand".. don't assume but recap!!!
It might feel a bit dr.Phil to go "ok, so if I understand you correctly, you mean XYZ, correct?", but it is the ultimate double check to see if you understood what it is that she is trying to tell you.. and don't be afraid to say you are doing this to understand her better and make sure you get it right, because that is the truth and a very good starting point.
It might not be an easy road ahead, and it might be easier then we all think based on the bit of input you gave her.. but at some point in time you might need to set some rules to live by that you both agree on.
My last tip is to weigh those rules carefully, because you will be both building trust based on those new rules!
Oh and do not make the classic male mistake of "promises promises", so choose them wisely.
For instance if you know you need a certain level of intimacy at some point, don't hide that or promise it won't be an issue.
Hope that helps, and good luck to the both of you
x Tara
Wanted to give everyone an update on my question I posted.
My wife and I have been talking more.
My transition is continuing. I finally understood where she is coming from.
She didn't marry her husband. She married Donna which had always been here. Her being married to a transgender is been considerably hard. I want her to see me as Donna. She she's a man as everyone else does. I do not see myself that way, for I have always been Donna inside.
Donna is there in the bedroom during intimacy. I can have totally man clothes on and be full man to her, but she said the female manners where there from the first time. She said it caught her off guard. Never experienced it before. She was very unsure about it all. She explained that's it hard to adjust that this comes from me naturally during intimacy. So intimacy is not very often if any right now. She's not lesbian and I don't know how else to be.
She asked me this question:
When go to your LGBT meetings and you meet someone your attracted to that's just like you, what's going to happen?
I responded: Isn't that cheating?
She responded: Yes, but I'll never be what you want.
So if I came home from a meeting and explained to you how I have found someone, how would you feel and respond.
She responded: I would be expecting that and Would agree to go our separate way quietly.
I guess my question was answered with: yes, it's considered cheating.
But as my wife said. We do not know what will happen to I experience that atmosphere. It may be something I hate and can't handle.
But it may also be what I've wanted all my life.
So each situation is different. Each couple is different. As my wife says: Just live each day, let what happens happen. And we can go from there.
I know now she loves me unconditionally and
Maybe just maybe can understand just a little it of the turmoil TG face living thier lives.
Good advice- that's where I'm at. I adore my wife, and I'm sad that after years of great sex she went through a long, hard menopause and came out the other side with almost nil interest in sex, but I'm not going to leave her because of it. I had a difficult time of it for about 2 years, but I am so glad I stuck it out.
But from what you say about wanting to go further down the path towards transitioning, I can't say your marital weather forecast looks good to me, even though your wife has made some encouraging noises.
I'd like to add that I admire your self confidence in not being put off by what verges on hostility from some of the members. It's easy here to hurl rocks and get off on judging, but this is primarily a support site, and perhaps people ought to respect that a bit more.
Good luck with it Donna.
Last edited by Nikkilovesdresses; 02-02-2016 at 12:24 PM. Reason: It's the only way I can get Lorileah to write to me.
I used to have a short attention spa
I am sorry for your dilemma. I have an SO who is unsupportive, if not down right mean about CDing. I do believe that it would be cheating unless there is an agreement before any action is taken. Is you being TG new for her or has it been a significant about of time?
Well here is a hug anyway!
Jenn
Hi Jenn
Totally new for her. She was very vanilla when we married. We dated for a year and then got married. We have been married for 1 1/2 yrs. She found out about me 3 months into the marriage.
Before we go further, would you please clarify what you mean by transition? Are you planning to take hormones and anti-androgens with the view of being full time and eventually coming out at work and to friends/family and pursuing a legal name and gender marker change? Or would you like to maintain your status-quo but have a more feminine body so you can pass better when dressing. There are vastly different definitions of what transition means among our members and being a bit more precise at this point would be helpful.
I think this is the fundamental reason she is turned off. Does she feel that when you make love, your mind is elsewhere rather than genuinely into her? There is no greater turn off than a lack of connection when making love, than believing that a lover isn’t into us.
You think your wife is turned off because she senses that you are female. Although hetero women are not attracted to people who have breasts and vaginas, you don’t have those attributes yet. In terms of lovemaking style both men and women are all over the map. It’s a fallacy and rather stereotypical to believe that men are dominant and women are passive. In truth, both men and women can initiate, be adventuresome, sensual, playful, passionate, teasing, and any of these styles can overlap and fluctuate based on mood and degree of arousal. Some lovers (both men and women) are into pleasing the other, while some are into pleasing themselves. Lovers who are more into pleasing themselves (who are in their own zones when love making) can be a turnoff too if this is consistent. The most arousing thing in a partner is when they are really into you and you can feel it through every nerve in your body.
It sounds as if your wife said what she said because she feels a lack of connection when you make love and she believes you want someone else … and so she wonders if you would rather be with men or other CDs/TGs/TSs. I went through that phase too with my SO, as the crossdressing was ramping up. It seemed to me for awhile that my SO wanted to be a woman in bed with a man and I didn't know where I stood. It's all worked out now, but it was difficult for some years.
Last edited by ReineD; 02-02-2016 at 03:54 PM.
Reine
Yeah, it's still cheating, regardless of your situation as described.
My name is Carol.
Reine
Yes I'm going for HRT. I have therapist set up next week. My wife has said that I won't know if it's right until I try.
Will SRS be in the future. I'm not sure.
My job and age might be the only hold back. I can't afford the time off to recover.
As far as the family. Mom and daughter have known for a while. Just never said anything to me. My daughter says she's cool with it. My work family? There is a GG that knows my story about trans.
The "guys" well, they think I am hung up on Caitlyn Jenner's journey and want to be that way.
So, honestly, I am moving forward. How far, I'm not sure.
Depends on the blood work and Doctor recommendations.
Thank you for everyone's feedback, whether truthful and harsh or support.
It's the opinions that get me thinking and help me make my decisions.
To know others stories, good or bad, helps me know; I'm not alone in all this.
And the bed room?
Yes, we have discussed that. And I'm understanding the feelings she and I have there. It's work in progress and we are not finish building on the relationship yet.
IMO, you're being really unrealistic, not to mention selfish. Nothing wrong with you doing what you need to in order to be happy, but don't try forcing your wife to stay with you if she can't deal with it. She needs to move on and try to be happy too.
Julogden
I have done that. Literally asked her if she needed to move on, that I'm not what she wants is ok.
She still here. I'm not making her stay.
Not holding her here. After much talking
She wants to stay. Says she is safe her and content. I've said I'm not what you want, she asked me: why can't i stay because I love you.
I have no answer for that. Although she may have not wanted to marry me if she would have known about all this before hand, she has stayed this long for some reason.
I have asked and asked her not to stay and be unhappy. It's not fair to her,I totally agree.
Each person or couple has to make their own moral code to live by. If she does not want sex, and you have the conversation that therefore you'll get it outside marriage, then its not a problem, but it sounds like actually you want it with her. You both might benefit from working through the CD and abuse issues with a professional, and both need to talk about how relationship moves ahead or not given the present situation. The moral as ever is to be open and truthful up front, or even meet a cd-friendly woman before starting to relate.
Sounds like a "next time" situation to me tho. Best of luck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.
thanks to krististeph: tigger = TG'er .. T-I-GG-er
I didn't ask about SRS. This really is not necessary for transition since the people you deal with everyday don't see what's under your clothes. Many of our TS members live full time as women without having had SRS.
OK, so it looks as if you're not sure whether you will transition or not then? By transition I mean living full time as a woman and coming out to everyone. This is what I was asking, or .... if you would just like to feminize your body while still planning to live as a male (to everyone except your wife, mom, daughter, the GG at work and maybe a few other friends).
Another important question is, would you like to retain your male sexual functioning while taking hormones?
Well, for sure your blood work will determine what you need to do before starting HRT (diet, high blood pressure, etc), but what I was asking was do you intend to live as a man in some parts of your life (work and some social situations and having sex using your male parts), or do you intend on fully transitioning (this means declaring yourself a woman to everyone in your life and with continued use of HRT, eventually losing male sexual functioning).
I ask this, because it very much has a bearing on how your wife takes this.
Also ... although you began this thread with questions about cheating, a great deal more information revealed itself as we went along that does have a bearing on the issues you are having with your wife. So I don't know what the protocol is here. Do we ignore everything you've said subsequent to your first post (if so, why post it lol), or do we place your first post in context with the other things you've posted.
Last edited by ReineD; 02-02-2016 at 05:03 PM.
Reine
im sorry. I didn't mean to post everything wrong.
Posting Permissions
