Tiers?

[Tara Rushing]

Does anyone else get the feeling that there are "tiers" on this site? Not all of us are lucky and are brave enough to be "out" to our SO's or anyone for that matter. I have seen a lot of post recently where those of us in the closet seem to be looked upon as 2nd class or coach around here. There is the group that pontificates on not telling your spouse. The group that bloviates on how simply and easy going out in public is, as if not doing so is cowardly or not "owning" your CD self. I am truly happy for those that venture out in the world. I try to always post an "atta girl" for those brave girls, but a lot of the "out girls" seem to take a condescending approach when reply to those of us that are still "in". And I am not talking about myself personally. I pick it up on lots of posts here. Today there was even a post about selfies with smiles being fake and the only good smile was a candid. Not all of us are out and having folks take candids of us at the ball sipping champagne. We are still stuck in the bedroom or bathroom getting our girl on.........sorry to rant......just seems like I see more and more of this daily around here......

[tifftg]

Tara,

While I agree there is a wide spectrum of in the closet to full fledged TS, that is one of the things I like about the site. I have been here a long time and my dressing has gone thru phases, intense pink fog to rarely but liking to check in on what the group is doing. I don't read every story and don't even log on every day. What I do know, what ever the issue I need help with there is someone or someones who have walked the road and will share their view.

Tiffany

[Adriana Moretti]

yup that was me LOL.....I am a big promoter of gals getting out the closet...sorry if it comes off in a certain way...I want to see more people enjoy life xoxo

and yes every selfie at home I ever took the smile looks incredibly forced, fake & unnatural ....every picture "out" though has a smile ear to ear ... .I am just hoping to get some of you out & comfortable a bit more, unfortunately it is a very delicate situation for those in the closet, which is completely understandable ..I can see why it would come off they way you think it did to you but it was meant to give encouragement to get out.

There ARE tiers unfortunately I see them here, and out too all the way up to fully tranitioned gals ....but its from the gals on the different tiers that I have learned from who taught me things, showed me the way, and those that I encourage too that I helped get "out" .... kind of a each one teach one kind of thing, but I get what your saying sometimes us gals push too hard and forget what it was like to be in the closet , I sometimes work for a transformation service and it is mostly gals deep in the closet, I have to remind myself to dial it back a bit . that something I take as being completely normal, is overwhelming for others xoxo

[Sky]

It's called the human race, Tara.

Being cd's does not mean we're immune to typical human prejudice, divisionism and sectarianism. Save for the fact that we tend to prefer petticoats to cargo pants, we're just like everybody else.

[CONSUELO]

A strength of this site is that it is a broad church that welcomes many variations. This is a self-help site after all and people come here for help and information as well as validation. I would hope that we all remember to be as understanding as possible as it would be a great shame if this wonderful site were to be the sole domain of one type of cross dresser.

[paulaprimo]

hi Tara, i felt the very same way when i joined this forum. nobody was deeper in the closet than i was...
when i joined i'm sure i was in the lowest "tier" as you call them. i find that there are "tiers" in every
aspect of my every day life, so why should this forum be different? if we were all on the same level,
i doubt i would have learned as much as i have. this site built me up, gave me confidence and made me
a very strong woman. i went at my own pace with lots of baby steps... every time i needed help or had a question,
there were plenty of more experienced ladies right here with great answers and plenty of help.
i was like a sponge and soaked up so much helpful information. i suggest that you do the same. this is a
support site and you should not feel pressured. do as i did... go at your own pace with lots of baby steps,
and no matter what "tier" you land on, as long as YOU are happy, that is the ultimate goal!!

[audreyinalbany]

I don't know if I'd call it 'tiers' necessarily. Although it might come off as a little preachy sometimes, I think this site is generally very supportive and the girls that encourage us to 'own it' and 'get out of the closet' are people who have once upon a time been in the closet themselves and are trying to be encouraging of those of us who are hesitant to advertise their crossdressing to the whole world. Just like your friend back in the day who went on the Roller Coaster when you were too scared, they're just saying, "man, that's fun!!! You should try it too !!"

[Nadine Spirit]

I don't mean to disparage anyone by discussing the reality of how being out has been far easier for me than I ever thought it would be. I simply would like to share my story and you all can take from it what you choose to. If you think that I bloviate then I suppose that is your choice. But it is a reality that I at one time was terrified to go out in public, and now I do it without a thought. It is a reality that I was terrified of telling anyone, except my spouse, and now that I have done it, I know better.

Sure there are levels, it doesn't mean that one is better than another, just different. I have my preferences and you have yours.

[Julogden]

Yep, there are tiers. And it's nothing new. The tiers aren't necessarily a problem, it's that a few people seem to love looking down on those who are on tiers that they consider to be "below" them. My first experience with it was back in the mid-1980's when I first made contact with the gender community. Seems like there are always some insecure people who need to act superior to others in order to make themselves feel good. It's a shame. We ought to all be supporting one another.

[pamela7]

i think its only "tiers" if someone thinks hierarchically, like there's a progression UP somewhere.
We have diversity and differences of situations and opinion. Honestly, if i lived in a deep redneck neighbourhood or in a dangerous city I'd think several times about being out of the closet, if i lived with a wife that i know would not approve, i'd be closet probably. So i'm lucky, i can be out, i do talk it all out with my wife. I'm sorry if there's some judgement about, tho it seems to be in human nature to some extent. Really, we're here to support each other, and sometimes that includes challenging the thinking being expressed.

[Rosemary+]

What a great OP , what sensational answers, I'm firmly in the closet and this why I joined this site, to read the experiences of the girls that are are out, the girls that are on the higher " tiers", I call them the trail blazers, they are out there living life to the fullest! if they can do it why cant I, a closeted CDer from the a small country town

[docrobbysherry]

The "tiers" r not for everyone, Tara. Some of us need to come out because women is who they feel they r. And, after a TS completes her transition to living as a female every day, discussing CD issues is like a motorcycle racer discussing how to ride a tricycle. After a while, many just r too busy living the dream to even visit here!

As far as going out dressed? There's a number of us here that do it often, but don't enjoy it all that much. But, many just don't say that because it's negative. So, they just don't comment, period. In fact there r very many closet dressers that visit here often and never comment. It's not everyone's CD dream to go to Macys or Dennys in bland, blending clothing. Some r quite content to dress in private. As am I!

There r also quite a few dressers who love going out dressed in glamorous, sexy outfits with their T girlfriends. To T events, clubs, bars, etc. Many of them don't bother visiting here often. Because for them dressing is all about fun, partying, and their T friends! The struggles of so many here is a not of interest to them. I meet lots of these party girls at the Vegas T events. It's an entirely different level from the, "---went out shopping at Walmart and Payless, then stopped for a sandwich on the way home", crowd!

But, don't think of it as tiers. It's more like different interests. Like: Some folks prefer to stay home building model train layouts. Some like to go out golfing with their buds. Others like hanging out and drinking at the corner bar. While others like to dress up for concerts and fancy dinners out.

We r all different. And, once we have dressed enuff? We may want to incorporate dressing into our other interests. I certainly have! Sherry's fantasy life is richer than anything Robert ever imagined in the 50 years before I began dressing!

Here's a few of us cd.com girls at a costume event at Mary's in Long Beach!
khgcghvbl (640x487).jpg

[Pat]

Yes, it could be that the site and everyone on it is the problem. Or it could be that you personally are feeling sensitive / insecure / unsupported for some reason. What would be an ideal post from your perspective?

[Jenny22]

After many lurking years here (What's the level for lurkers .. the lowest?) and reading all of the 'you CAN do it', I finally got the nerve to buy my pretties en homme, regardless of what people might think, and to drive pretty in my car and to get out and walk around in parking lots and other somewhat secluded places, and to underdress almost daily. But, at my age, with a honker the size of Jimmy Durante's, and facial skin that's really sagging, droopy eye lids and masculine hands, and etc., etc. I don't think I will ever venture any further 'out.' Now, my closet isn't as deep as it once was thanks to this wonderful forum. I'm happy!

[Tracii G]

I guess there are tiers here but they are everywhere in life its just the human factor.
We all have to start somewhere do we not?
I don't let the tier system bother me too much because we all have our own style and comfort level.No better no worse just different.
I do notice the closet girls seem to get mad when those of us that do go out and have a social TG existence say yes you can go out and have fun.
All we are trying to do by saying that is encourage ones on the fence that need the encouragement.
We are not bashing the closet girls that like where they are and totally fine with it. Its just they always comment in a negative way.
In turn that causes the girl that wants to go out and move forward to think she isn't good enough to take the plunge into the real world.

[Tara Rushing]

Yes, it could be that the site and everyone on it is the problem. Or it could be that you personally are feeling sensitive / insecure / unsupported for some reason. What would be an ideal post from your perspective?

It really has nothing to do with me personally. Every time I've posted I've been almost overwhelmed by the positive responses. The only post that I have taken personal offense to was Krissy saying something about my ordering breastforms and I replied to that sort of harshly and probably should not have.

The "straw that broke the camel's back", if you will, was today's remark about selfies being fake and the thread from yesterday about hiding your CD'ing from your spouse. I suppose there is a grain of truth in that when when I read a response to another girl who like me is in the closet I take that "on the chin" for all of us "in the closeters"...I just in general have a problem with snobbish behavior. It has nothing to do with the stories of girls going out. I love those. They are encouraging. I am glad they (and I guess you as I don't recall your posts) are free to go out. What I was talking about are the replies to girls when they mention wanting to go out like: "all you have to do is turn the door handle", "it's easy", ect...since you asked what I'd prefer in a post it'd be "yeah, I was scared too, but here's how I overcame it" that is conversational. "just open the door" is condescending. None of us walk in the other's shoes (male or heels) so there are myriad reasons people have told no one or are afraid of venturing in public......and when I see others treating them that way it is frustrating.

[NicoleScott]

Tara, I agree with your tiers idea. Reminds me of the cable/satellite packages:
Pkg A. 72 channels
Pkg B. Pkg A + 46 more
Pkg C. Pkg B + 38 more

Here, it's "I am everything you are, and more" and "been there done that, but now......".

Want some examples?
"It used to be entirely sexual, but now......"
"I thought I was JUST a crossdresser, but now....."
"I used to hide in the closet, but now....."

[Nadine Spirit]

... what I'd prefer in a post it'd be "yeah, I was scared too, but here's how I overcame it" that is conversational. "just open the door" is condescending....

How did I actually get out in public for the first time? By telling myself all I had to do was to open the door and get out there.

When you have never done it, it may appear condescending, but I don't think that any of us who have ever stated that, after experiencing that, are attempting to be condescending, just honest. There are not a whole lot of baby steps that can be taken that make opening that door and getting out there all that much easier. Before you do it, nobody can convince you that it is as easy as it actually is. When I first went out, about 10 years or so ago, I knew of no one else who cross dressed. I was not a member of any support group. I did not communicate with others online. Nothing. No contact in anyway with anyone who had any gender variances.

What did I have? Myself and my own assurances that I could do it. That all I needed to do was to open that door, and get out there. Seriously, I think so many of us say that, because it is that action that is the hardest. Once I was out there, on the street, interacting with people, that was easy, because the reality of getting out is far different than what your fears make you think that being out in public will be like.

So maybe saying "just open the door..." is really an analogy for saying "get over the fear within your own head and go experience reality before deciding what it will be like."

You will never know what it is like until you try it for yourself.

(Yeah I know, a bit off topic and I don't mean to derail your thread, I just want to offer up some explanation for those of us who say "just open the door.")

[Adriana Moretti]

and here is my first time out in public hun.... taken from an article i wrote last year...the second part was a complete bug out....hope this helps , cause once you face the fears, and realize it was all in your own head...its all pretty much downhill from there....

it was about 10 years ago, I finally got to a comfortable place with my crossdressing where I felt I had the confidence to go out in public and decided a safe place would probably be a CD/TG event. After some research I found an organization that would host monthly parties . This was going to be my first night out.

Nervous? Yes, I was pretty terrified, and waited till dark to slip out of my apartment to drive to the party. Is it just me? Or do you seem to drive a bit slower when you are crossdressed?

Arriving at the venue and sat in my car gathering up the courage to just get OUT and walk across the street. I was pretty nervous and did not know what to expect and my thoughts got the best of me and worked me up into a ball of nervous energy. 20 MINUTES I sat there till I had said to myself " Adriana....you have been preparing and dreaming of this moment for WEEKS, you spent ALL that time getting ready, DROVE all the way here....if you do not get out of this car right now and walk in the front door you are going to be kicking yourself in the a$$ the whole way home, and you will regret it !

With that little motivational speech I got out the car, walked across the street in my WAY too high stripper heels ( 6 inches) and headed into the unknown behind that closed door. As soon as I entered I was greeted right away by a gal pal I knew from an AOL chat room ( remember those? ) She had immediately put me at ease..what was I so worried about? What was the big deal? I learned that night that I was not alone, and that there are others in the world who are JUST like me. I didn't want that party to end.....it still hasn't .

Which brings me to my Second FIRST time OUT in public, after my 7 year purge from crossdressing Which was April 19th 2014. This time it was a little easier, but not by much.
I decided to make my first trip back out out a big cd function ( why not right). It was one of Jennifer Bryants Raven Event's. I arrived the day before the event to scope out the hotel, the club, the restaurant, etc..settled in and figured I would use the night before to brush up on my makeup skills.

I Got dressed, did my makeup, now I was sitting in my hotel room alone and bored, so i popped a bottle of wine....drank that and my mind started wandering off...I JUST traveled over 200 miles, and I'm crossdressed, ALONE, in a hotel room ! What was I doing?? Was I crazy? Have I gone too far?? Did I go over the edge?? I undressed and tried to sleep, ...I just crawled in a ball and shivered all night.


In the morning, I thought about leaving...and coming up with an excuse as to why I missed the event ( I was meeting gals from crossdressers.com there) . But I decided to at LEAST check out the Meet & Greet and if I hated it I could always use my excuse then.

Showtime came and I drank up some liquid courage to help me get out the door (I wasn't driving,, the meet & greet was right downstairs in the hotel),

I left my hotel room, and was nervous.....sooooo nervous that when I met my friend Samantha she could see I was visually shaken right away....Samantha grabbed me looked right into my eyes and said "Adriana..calm down...it's going to be ok"...and you know what from that moment on...it was !

It was nice to have a big sister like that , and she made me feel right at home and comfortable.
I wound up staying the WHOLE weekend, even though I had a few first time blunders ( wig disasters, spilled, drinks, falling in my heels etc )...but it WAS fun...and I went to the next, and the next, and the next.....

It was kinda like riding a bike....but it can be overwhelming at first....being alone in the hotel room with just my thoughts was prob not a good idea looking back.
I encourage those still in the closet to give it a shot and get out & live the life you want to live & those of you gals who are OUT to be a big sister and lend a helping hand to any girl looking to get out in public. Each one teach one & let's all pay it forward.



and speaking of teirs.... figured id share this too cause it is very interesting on alot of levels .....here is a facebook rant my friend wrote when she was a bit tipsy and angry...it has to do with the teirs and the levels people put us on....it got alot of buzz when she wrote it , she was angry that the full time tg's were turning their nose at her calling her a cd cause she wont get hrt. and she is trans i saved this post, cause i thought it was really good... ... keep in mind this is HER rant...not mine...but i do agree with alot of it...

I AM NOT A CROSSDRESSER

I really despise the label. I think it should be thrown out with the nights garbage. It's been used as a black mark, a signifier of something deplorable and undesirable. I get asked frequently how long have I been in hormones or since I transitioned. If
I haven't made a medical it lifestyle transition as others have, I no longer am taking seriously. Im playing dress up or I'm a coward. I suddenly become less than human, despite all the things I have accomplished that speak to the contrary. I despise the line of thought that my identity, as it ever evolves, is stripped of the dignity it deserves...... that it commands. Lives
I have positively touched, the courage have wrangled from loneliness and despair. The truth of my own identity that can only be defined by what I have accomplished and lived through and remain intact. How can the worth of that ever be diminished? How can that light be dimmed by the fact I have not chosen a path walked by others? IT DOES NOT. We all, in this community, have faced the same questions about who we are and who we want to be. How we choose to answer is the only difference. Granted if a person identifies as a crossdresser, you should respect that and treat them as they ask. However, please refrain from forcing an antiquated, limited, ill fitting and suffocating box on someone who doesn't identify with it in any variation. Imagine the turmoil and self loathing you experienced by those who could not fathom or tolerate the truth of who you are. Without tremendous resolve and resilience, you are resigned to walking out of one closet only to walk into another. Without an option that speaks to YOU, your only recourse is to return to darkness, to shame, to less than living. By judging a person on what they have not done or what they do not ascribe to, you have dealt the same injustice you have, yourself, experienced in your journey. If you see me online or in person, please do not call me a crossdresser. Whether to my face, in conversation, or in your mind. Call me sister, because at the end of the day I understand and support and advocate for you, and myself every day. The way I currently live my life is not a blemish on our community. OUR community is not thriving despite of people like me, but because people like me are a part of it.

In the recent pass I was told after sharing where I am on my journey: " I wondered why this perfectly paddle transgendered woman was hanging out with all these cross dressers." I could not even accept the compliment in the face of the slight cast on my friends and other company. What this person (who happened to be a transgender woman, living in stealth) did not know was that the groups I interact with can. It be tightly categorized. Those beautiful women ranged from traditionally transitioned, to on to close path to such a transition, to veteran weekenders who were happy enough to enjoy acceptance and understanding companionship. They were all amazing in the truth they were living. A person whom you would think to possess empathy and understanding, cast them off all because they didn't look like her. Their stories became irrelevant. Sorry, but the company of the former is not a club that I desire membership.

I am not a crossdresser. At one time I was. I have evolved well beyond that. I may be many things, but a crossdresser is not it. If you have walked a similar path and feel you are..... I applaud you for taking ownership of who you are and want to be. For me, it isn't satisfactory.... not by a long shot.

Before anything we think and say about others, let one idea persist. Live and let live.

--

[paulaprimo]

well said adriana!

my biggest fear about going out for the first time was people staring at me and what they thought about me.
it took a long time for me to feel comfortable about going out. what worked for me was that i first had to accept
myself and feel good about myself. once i did that it was much easier going out. i also found that i was paranoid
about people checking me out when in reality they could care less. they had their own busy lives to live...

and like adriana, samantha was the one who got me to attend the raven back in april 2014. i had been out for about 2 years
prior to this, but never on the scale of the raven. i was scared to death with sooooo many girls there but wound up having the
the time of my life. talk about a confidence builder... to be with so many girls without a care in the world, was truly amazing.
it took me 2 years and lots of baby steps to get to the raven. now, to look back, i say to myself, what the hell was i scared of???

everybody's time line and path is different. go at your pace and what works for you!!

[Julogden]

i think its only "tiers" if someone thinks hierarchically, like there's a progression UP somewhere.

In theory, yes, you're right. In real life, at least here in the US, there are tiers invented primarily by those who apparently need to have others that they can feel superior to.

[Tara Rushing]

Adriana and Nadine thanks for your stories. I had read Adriana's either here or on her site before. Even though it was one of Adriana's post that "set me off" a little, I hold no ill will toward her. I have spent hours on her site learning stuff.

This thread kind of makes me feel like Dorothy talking to Oz and taking up for all us cowardly lions and getting told, "SILENCE WHIPPERSNAPPER!!!!"

Maybe we could all take a step back and learn a little something (then again maybe not - LOL - as the ones who say this is human nature are ultimately the correct and smart ones) and you "pros" could be a tad more understanding and us cowardly lions could toughen up a bit?

[CarolBrown]

I wouldn't say there are tiers as such... There are those on different levels, where they are partially or fully out of the closet.. There are also a few idiots who feel that we all should be out of the closet..

We are all in the place where we want/need to be and advice from here for taking it to the next stage if necessary. Finding this forum has helped me to understand more about who I am and how to control the pink fog to a point...

[Zooey]

The "tiers" r not for everyone, Tara. Some of us need to come out because women is who they feel they r. And, after a TS completes her transition to living as a female every day, discussing CD issues is like a motorcycle racer discussing how to ride a tricycle. After a while, many just r too busy living the dream to even visit here!

LOL, what dream are we living again? Very few, if any, of us are living "the dream". Rather, we are simply living (or at least trying to).

I don't think your motorcyle racer/tricycle analogy is terribly great, because TS is not the "top tier" of "crossdressing". Honestly, I find most CD forum discussions to be a strange combination of fascinating, thought provoking, and occasionally infuriating. My analogy would be that being a woman in the CD section is like being a highly-decorated experienced combat fighter, and finding yourself in a discussion full of people who are super-obsessed with playing over-the-top military videogames. Interesting in its own right, but not terribly applicable to my situation (and vice versa - reality is rarely as fun as fantasy).

[RachaelXD]

I think there are tiers and that the ones that matter are largely internal.
They are the tiers of acceptance.
Do you accept who you are now? Do you need to explore further?
Sometimes I think I am there and sometimes I question that.
The question can be directed to any part of a persons life, not just dressing.