I agree. Listen to the GG.
I just came out to my wife. And things are rocky right now. But I'm trying the advice of the GG's here. And hope for the best
I agree. Listen to the GG.
I just came out to my wife. And things are rocky right now. But I'm trying the advice of the GG's here. And hope for the best
What are you sewing? There's not much in men's styles to sew at home. It sounds like she's okay as is. If you want something different, I think that would be your place to bring it up.
I started out convincing my wife that I was uncomfortable in my own undies. So I stated with cotton hipsters that aren't much different from my undies. Then came camis and tees. Then night shirt.
It's been about 9 months since I came out. Ton ugh is the first night I spent on a dress. But the bottom line is I wouldn't have gotten here if I'd waited for her to advance the discussion.
You have to be careful as well. A lot of GG's say they are fine with it, but that changes over time. Things wear thin over time. They start to want more masculinity in their life and are not getting it.
On the other hand, if you are into going out, you could invite her to go somewhere with girl you, walk on the beach or in the woods, art museum or dinner at a white-tablecloth beanery. Offer her a gentle and safe next step, leave her plenty of space to say no not now, or maybe later.... But also give her a chance to say yes.
Given her reaction, I've got a little different take. It may well be that she was already on to something because of the makeup, etc., but as unlikely as it sounds to us in the community she may not have connected the dots. Again, it seems like a small step to us from "husband wears a little makeup and sometimes some girl's clothes" to "husband is a crossdresser", but I think it's possible that to her there is a vast difference. You can bet she hasn't forgotten about it. She's probably thinking as much about it as you are. I wouldn't change anything right now, and I certainly wouldn't press her to talk about it. I have no idea what your morning makeup routine is. I'll venture a guess that although she knows you wear makeup, she may not actually see you putting it on in the morning. If this is so, you might try putting it on when she can see you do it. Better yet, if you've got a big vanity mirror if you could share the mirror and do your makeup at the same time that's likely to broach the subject.
Given the things you already do, you probably already have an idea of how comfortable she is with it. Be honest with yourself about that. This is not the time for unfounded optimism. Tread lightly, but tread a little if necessary. It's also not time to try to stuff the cat back in the bag.
Good advice from everyone. May I also suggest that just because she knows about your "girl" side, don't stop being a man for her. It sounds like she is processing your conversation but if you go overboard and want to be "girlfriends" it may not go well.
Personally,I find it frustrating having to constantly ask questions. I'm the one who has to trawl the internet looking for answers. My husband's answers to the same questions have varied over the last nearly 2years. It really frustrates me. I am in a different place right now to what I was upon finding out as is he to a certain extent,it annoys the hell out of me that he is still changing his answers. He is bloody lucky that I am still here&that I accept it. We were meant to have a night where was going to don the whole kit&kaboodle and it didn't happen. He was waiting for x,y& z to arrive in the post so he could do the whole lot. I'm still bloody waiting. I understand he may be nervous but he wasn't so nervous plastering his face on various cd websites so every tom,dick and harry could see him. I want him to come to me and say he wants x,y,z. We can talk and negotiate. Am I being unreasonable??
Last edited by Sandra; 03-09-2016 at 06:16 AM. Reason: word filter kicked in..word is not allowed on the forum
Dinky you are perfect just the way you are
No. It's because although they may be OK with it as an occasional thing or if it's like a harmless hobby, they are concerned when it ramps up and becomes a priority or when they notice sexual motives or activities (looking at TG porn or enjoying pics of CDers wearing lingerie and showing their junk).Originally Posted by NylonMan
No.
I'd hate it too, if my SO preferred showing this side of himself to others and not me. It would feel like he was cheating. That said, it's perfectly OK for CDers to participate in activities with others and not their wives when their wives don't want to be involved, because the wives have been given the option and they declined. But a wife who wants a husband to share this with her and he won't, feels betrayed when he goes behind her back and shares it with others.
Reine
I'm not excusing anybody's bad behavior but... For most of us this began as a solo activity. It is easier to share this openly with a stranger or on this board than it is to share with a SO. It shouldn't be that way, but from my experience it is. Even an accepting/encouraging SO. My wife knew and participated at home and allowed feminine things when I was with her in public, but it fell short of full-on crossdressing. She knew I went out alone, knew about the clothes and everything, but we didn't talk about it. After the divorce the first time I dated someone who wanted to go out with me en femme I about had a panic attack. I was not dressed any differently than I'd done hundreds of times alone. She helped me get ready; dress, heels, makeup, hair done, nails done. She'd obviously already seen me and we drove to the mall together. She was 100% encouraging, but I just about couldn't get out of the car. If I'd been by myself I wouldn't have thought twice. It was like an out of body experience. I felt numb.
That's just an example. The same thing could apply to the cd who has never dressed in front of her SO. It could apply to a lot of scenarios. It's just hard. It's very hard even for a lot of us to shake that "I'm supposed to be a man! What the hell am I doing!" thing when it comes to our most loved ones.
That said, it's not healthy. There are several on here whose spouses participate and some who are participating spouses. Those are wonderful and wonderfully open and loving relationships which the others of us envy. I'll bet that most of them didn't start that way. I know it must seem to Dinky and others that their acceptance should make it easy. Easier is the term. Many of us have our own hangups about it, strange as that may sound. I had hangups about it that I wasn't even aware of until we were sitting in the parking lot.
I appreciate what you're saying Rhonda.
And so maybe a wife who feels like Dinky should explain to her husband that when he shows this side to others and not her, it makes her feel left out as if he trusts others more than he trusts her.
Surely when a CD husband hears this, he will make an effort to get over his discomfort because he will be interested in preserving the health of his relationship?
Reine
Michelle Fox, enjoyed reading your story and hope the best for the both of you.
Reine,
Exactly. Your explanation and mine pretty well describes the problem. When a CD husband or boyfriend can finally let down her guard it is one of the best feelings there is. I'd also say that in a relationship where this is shared and truly accepted it is such an intimate thing between them that their relationship is incredibly strong. Sounds like a win-win, but it's hard to get there, from both sides.
One other thing, Reine, and I have to point this out. It's hard for a CD to get over the lingering fear that her wife or girlfriend isn't being completely forthcoming. That she's trying incredibly hard to be supportive, but one day she'll have had enough, that this incredibly intimate and strengthening thing will one day be the ultimate deal breaker. Then the CD husband is left having given her wife ammunition that could ruin her. It's hard to truly trust 100%. People change. A lifetime is a long time. It must be similar to how the wife feels about the possibility of transition.
I at one time had a very supportive wife. I'll give one example of how this plays out. 20+ years ago I went to my usual hair salon and got a French braid. I was very excited and loved it and couldn't wait to get home to show my wife. I really did think she'd like it. When I walked in I saw her eyes widen a little. I'm sure she could tell how excited I was as I showed it off to her. I asked her if she thought she could do that for me and she said "Yes, I think so."... but her voice cracked a little. I knew she didn't really want to. I was smart enough that (as far as I remember) I never asked her to do it. Dumb enough, however, to have many French braids done at the salon. She wanted to be supportive, and didn't want to tell me she not only didn't want to do it for me, she didn't want me running around with my hair in a French braid. I kidded myself into thinking that what she really had an (unspoken) problem with was doing it for me, but she'd be fine with me having it done. That's two people who love each other, but are killing each other at the same time. There's the rub, and that is the nature of the beast. One little deal like that probably wouldn't be all that bad. Problem is, I've got a million examples just like that, and many of us do.
I always stress communication. That's the biggest thing I/we did not do. It is the simplest yet most difficult thing.
Michelle, some very good advice here. I only came out to my wife a scant 13 days ago. My experience so far has been positive. I believe it has been positive for a few reasons.
1. I am being brutally honest with her. No lies, no half truths, even if it means opening myself up to potential ridicule.
2. I am not pushing the subject. I have been living with this my whole life. She has just had it thrust upon her. Give her time.
3. Let her know how much you love her. Let her know you care, and above all, let her proceed at her pace. Overwhelming her could have disasterous consequences.
Every relationship, and every woman is different. Even though my wife has no desire to see me dressed just yet, she has stated that she does, in the future, want to meet Rebecca. She just wants to be assured in the meantime, that Richard will still be there when she needs him. Best wishes to you Michelle, and all of the other girls out there, GG and CD alike. After all, we all just want to be happy.
I have a few questions. First, did you wear your french braid in front of everyone you and your wife knew, or did you only wear it when you dressed outside of your home/neighborhood/work sphere. And if you did wear it in the familiar spheres, was it just the french braid, or was there also makeup, nail polish, women's clothes, breast forms, etc ... in other words could your friends/family/coworkers tell that you were a CDer or did they just think you were a guy with odd tastes for hair styles.
I'm asking because I support my own SO looking as feminine as possible, but only in the next town over. We both know there would be lots of gossip, misunderstandings, and some people would want to distance themselves from us should my SO come out to everyone we know, and so we're both in agreement that the CDing is private (in the next town over). So did your wife not want you to present as a woman ever, even in the next town over?
Second, if you did wear your french braid at work, in the neighborhood, with your friends, etc, what were the reactions and consequences as far as you could tell, and what would have been your own reaction if your wife had told you she was OK with you wearing it to go out in the next town over but not in your own spheres.
It's hard for me to imagine your situation without knowing more detail.
Reine
Reine,
When I got the French braid we had just moved to a new town and were temporarily renting a house. We didn't know anybody. My kids were 6 and 2, and they certainly saw it. I'd get it done on Friday and take it down Sunday night or Monday morning. I didn't wear it to work or around anybody we knew. The neighbors saw me when I mowed the yard or went to the mailbox. I ran errands around town and we went out to eat, so people saw, but, again, nobody we knew. We had a boat, and my biggest "reason" for wearing it that way was because it was easy to take care of at the lake. If we were somewhere where I thought we might run into someone we knew I wore a cap. We lived there until the house was built, at which point I no longer wore it that way around the neighbors. I don't think anyone who became our permanent acquaintances ever saw my hair that way. I saved the full-on CDing for the next town over. My wife had seem my hair in a lot more feminine styles than a French braid.
I know you know this because your SO has long hair, but when you have long hair you're already dealing with something that everybody considers feminine and you've dealt with it for a long time. A French braid really seemed pretty trivial to me at the time. Not trivial enough, however, for me to wear it to work. Just about as trivial as a man bun is today. To one person it's a man bun, to another it's an updo.
Her reaction would have been exactly the same if I'd come home with a bun. Ten years before that a French braid would have been a non issue to her. Long hair became more and more of a point of contention. It was something that was always visible and would be the last thing I'd give up. It got to where it pissed her off every time someone complimented my hair.
I suspect your SO is not much different from me at the time. You save it for the next town over, but do you really? Long hair, long nails, shaved, probably has her brows done. Those are the things she has to do to be as feminine as possible the next town over, but those things are evident all the time. I kept my hands almost in a fist to hide my nails during the week. I didn't think anybody noticed. I admit that I knew she hated me wearing my nails long (and they were ridiculously long) and I ignored that. She said trying to hide them made my hands look deformed and that I wasn't really hiding anything.
I could write a book called "Don't Do What I Did".
Here's the thing... My wife kept a journal. I didn't know it, I don't know for how long or why (though I have my suspicions). When I found out about it I searched for it and found it. I only had time to read snippets. I'd like to say it sounded like she was writing about someone else. It was me, alright. What I read was me through her eyes. It is no exaggeration to say it was shocking. It is hard to look at myself that way, particularly to admit that it was true. You have to communicate, people. That's not the end of it, though. You have to compromise. Nobody likes to compromise.
To Michelle Fox, I'm hoping the side conversation that Rhonda and I are having will be of interest. Even though it has no direct impact on a conversation about bringing clothes into a shared closet, it's a good example of the ways that couples can fail to communicate.
Not really though. There are 3-4 men in my SO's department (all ages) who also have long hair tied at the nape. They are not CDers, it's just not an unusual thing to do in my SOs field. We live in a college town and so we have a lot of men with long hair tied at the nape. My SO was blond (getting gray now) and so the eyebrows have always been barely visible. There's no trimming except maybe the few odd hairs that might appear between the eyebrows. The only thing, really, are the long fingernails but by themselves it's not enough for most people to put two and two together although I've sometimes wondered if some people at work believe my SO to be gay. We were at a work-related party some years ago and after talking to one of the women who works with my SO, she asked who I was with. She expressed shock in a way to imply that she didn't think my SO would have a female partner. She actually said, "I didn't know that _____ had a girlfriend!" (with an emphasis on girlfriend).
It's not a point of contention for me for the reasons mentioned above, but it would be if my SO decided to wear it in a French braid like this. In our neck of the woods, French braids would cross the line from "it is not unusual for a man in a creative field to have long hair" to "WTF". And I would feel doubly uncomfortable if people paid him compliments on it because I know that compliments can be a way to bring attention to something unusual. Like, "Your nails are so long, there's no way I could ever grow my nails that long".
Im sorry.
I agree, thorough and honest communication cannot be emphasized enough, no matter how uncomfortable it is. As to compromise, it may be difficult at first but I think that couples have a way of finding a genuine balance if they want to stay together. If they can't or won't communicate then your situation is a prime example of resentments that build to the point of ending the relationship.
Reine
I wrote a long self-serving reply to this but thought better of it. One huge barrier to communication for me was the fear that is we talked about it she say no to something I really wanted. You've just got to put on your big girl panties and do it anyway. It will be difficult to survive as a couple with such a huge elephant in the room. You might survive as roommates, but I doubt that's what very many want out of a marriage or otherwise committed relationship.
And, Reine
Exactly!! I'm so glad you mention this, I think it will help a lot of people. And to tell the truth, everyone goes through that, not just people who want to present as the opposite sex. I've hidden (or not talked about) things at various times in my life because I didn't want to give them up either, even though I knew that what I was doing was not OK in my relationship and would cause difficulties. I made a choice to prioritize my own wants over my relationship needs. And my ex did it too, for different things. We're no longer together either.
Now people can say this doesn't apply to gender identity, which is certainly true if a person is TS and is transitioning. A transitioner absolutely needs to transition and live as the target gender; this is a need and not a want. But if they're not TS and not transitioning, then is the reason for wanting to dress identity-related, or is it instead something that feels intensely good ... an impulse that at times is so overwhelming as to make it impossible to deny, even if it eventually subsides for most non-TSs.
And, Reine
Reine
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