After coming out, three years later

[heatherdress]

Paula - I am sorry to hear of your sad divorce and subsequent settlement issues with your ex-wife. It is difficult but you can only do what you can do. I had a very difficult and painful divorce from my ex-wife, but it had nothing to do crossdressing. In fact, I had never crossdressed and did not even know I was a crossdresser when married to her. She was mentally ill and abusive, to me and the kids, which is another story. Even though she wanted the divorce to abandon her children, she still was evil and unreasonable during a 3 year divorce process which cost about $75K for each of us. Sad, but I can appreciate how much more difficult it must be to end a long term marriage with the discovery and revelation that you are really a woman, as you had to do. I am glad that you were able to discover your identity and admire the courage to tell your wife and family, and move on to live your life as the person you are. It is too bad for your ex-wife and children because they only experience your loss, and you must have been a good husband and father. I wish you the best and hope for your happiness.

[flatlander_48]

PQ:

What you described is a reminder that the human mechanism is an extraordinary device. If we put effort into it, we can get ourselves to believe just about anything. Sadly, your Ex is focused on punishing you and she believes that this is important above all else. But, what she doesn't know is that this will not give her peace and will not give her closure and will not allow her to move on.

It is possible that we can make ourselves exceedingly miserable, but by the same token, we do have the power to allow ourselves to be happy. I do hope that she will eventually realize this.

DeeAnn

[PaulaQ]

May I ask the question if you hadn't had the transgendered problem, ( OK use the word normal male !) would you have remained happily married ?

It's hard to answer this because there are so many things going on with me. Had I been a straight, cisgender male, yes, we'd have stayed happily married. Our marriage wasn't perfect, but we were happy together. If only the trans issue is taken off the table in your hypothetical, then there's still the issue of my being bi and poly. I am unsure whether or not my being bisexual and polyamorous would've disrupted our marriage. We'd been married for 17 years when I came out to her. I suspect I'd have stayed monogamous, and in denial about being bi. I wouldn't have been totally happy about it, but I'd never have told her. How bad this would've been, I can't say. But I sincerely believe we'd have stayed together, regardless. I'd never have told her I was bi. Never.

You both know you can't walk away from this situation because of the unresolved issues, maybe it's crazy but living under the same roof again would solve much of that.

She wouldn't get along with the man I'm engaged to, or the other woman I'm dating. Actually, she can't stand talking to me or being in the same room as me, either. So it would be a problem. BTW, staying under the same roof was my initial suggestion. I'd have been OK with it if she hadn't wanted to have sex with me anymore, and had sought out a boyfriend. I had suggested this to her at one point. (That was kind of foolish on my part - it really made things worse.)

Does you wife have the same relationship with her children to balance her life and take the punishment off you?

I don't know. Before all this started, I'd have said yes. But now, I don't have any way to know. She doesn't talk to me. They don't talk to me about her.

You should do what's best for yourself and not worry about your ex wife. She is not worried about you.

You got that right. Well, mostly right. She would hate it if I were murdered before I'd paid out all her support. She told me that, when I pointed out that my life was somewhat contingent on some of the disasters that befall trans people not happening to me. (Another example, going to prison for using the wrong restroom, should such laws ever come to pass.)

I know she's worried about her retirement. I can sympathize with that, although I don't think about it very much myself. I expect, because of the financial drain from the house, and my transition, that I'll work until I am literally not physical capable of working any more. Hopefully until a pretty advanced age. When I feel I am getting close to needing assisted living or some such thing, my plan is to commit suicide. It's not that I want to die, but I can't imagine being institutionalized in a facility that will almost certainly NOT be affirming of my gender, and worse, surrounded by hateful people from my generation, and prior, who don't like trans people. I've seen firsthand what happens to many of us who are trans in institutional living situations. I don't really have any guarantees that my kids would go to bat for me if I wind up in that kind of an abusive situation - misgendered, refused hormones, etc. I won't live that way. So if it comes down to that, I'll end my life instead.

I hope things change, but I don't really see growing old gracefully and retiring to a pleasant life, and dying at an advanced age in my home, surrounded by loved ones, as being a very probable end for me. Honestly, if I make it 20 years, I'll consider this a win. And maybe things will change, and I won't face such awful choices as I age. I really hope they do change - I don't look forward to such a choice. Assuming I get a choice, and something else doesn't get me first.

It's hard to see some of the things I've seen in the past three years and think "oh yeah, happy ending - that's definitely going to be how it goes for me!"

I think you may be correct about her wanting/needing to feel like the victim. Sometimes when people are angry or upset they make bad decisions - or avoid making difficult or emotionally-laden decisions so that they don't have to see themselves as responsible in any way for their situation.

Yes, it seems like this is the case. She certainly blames me for leaving, although she asked me to go. Perhaps she means my transition when she says "I left." It's hard to know - she won't let me talk about what happened. When I do talk to her, we agree to "not go there," and then she does, but shuts down the conversation if I respond.

If I have to take action she won't like, you are probably right, I should probably let the attorney do it.

Frankly I don't know if one can really ascribe the term "victim" to these marital breakups. I tried to make a quick check for your age, but, could not find it. Or the length of the marriage. However, what I have usually observed is the woman in a marriage is generally the spouse who is ill prepared for a marital break up. The financial facts of a divorce is the plain fact it is a lot cheaper for two to live together than separately. Combined incomes with one mortgage, etc?

We were married 18 years by the time of our divorce. I was 50 when I came out to her, she was 48.

We didn't have children together, although we both had kids from a prior marriage. I had always encouraged her to work, and to continue to educate herself so that she could have a career. I paid for at least three different career paths, and their attendent educational requirements. For that matter, she got her associate's degree while we were together - again, I paid for that. (I don't have a degree at all.) In the end, she just decided she didn't like working, and stayed home. For a long time, my salary covered everything, because she just didn't like working. I really did encourage her to be self-sufficient and independent throughout the relationship. I think, on some level, I knew this day had to come. Oh, if you'd asked me, I'd have told you, and believed, that it was all about empowering her, and that life was never certain - I could die in an accident, for example. And while those things were true, they wouldn't have been "the truth."

As it turns out, we were both the "woman in the marriage..."

I'm not saying she wasn't hurt by this, or wasn't a victim. I feel we both have been, in many ways. Look, I lied to her about who I was. I lied to EVERYONE about who I was. The truth wasn't acceptable at the time. So I did what I was expected to do, and hurt myself, and others, including her, in the process.

I can't fix her life though. She has to be the one to do it.

Sadly, your Ex is focused on punishing you and she believes that this is important above all else. But, what she doesn't know is that this will not give her peace and will not give her closure and will not allow her to move on.

I believe you are right. And that is her choice.

I do worry that she'll make it extremely difficult for me to sell the home she got in the divorce, but that I'm obligated to pay for should she default on it. There aren't many realtors in the area where it's located, and she can certainly tell them horrible stories about how I'm screwing her, and that selling the home is stealing from her, aiding and abetting me, whatever. I suspect she's already done some of this. I can deal with that - I have ideas on what to do anyway. That also hurts her though, if she has.

I appreciate all the kind words from everyone in the thread. I have just a couple of things to check on, and then I will propose some alternatives to her that hopefully avoid her defaulting on the mortgage, foreclosure, horrible stuff like that. If she rejects them, I have a plan to deal with it.

[jaleecd]

Paula
I seem to remember you having suicidal thoughts, until you accepted that you are woman? You had no reason to know that transion was in you future, nature scrambled you up with a female brain with a birth defect. Her choice is to punish you for something that is an accident of birth. guilt sucks and is a useless emotion.Do what Paula needs to do to survive and prosper. that will piss her off the most, seeing you as a better woman than she is. Good luck.

[flatlander_48]

PQ:

Funny how Humans often have no problem cutting off their nose to spite their face...

DeeAnn

[Bria]

Paula, I'm so sorry to hear that your ex has found another way to put you through the wringer. I thought that you were all done with her after the observatory fiasco. At this point you need to look after and protect number one.

I hope that this all turns out well for you, I'll remember you in my prayers.

Hugs, Bria

[steftoday]

What Bria said. You've done all you could (basing that on your prior posts). Please, take care of YOU this time.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks y'all! I think she may have turned the realtor she's using against me - they aren't returning my phone calls. I already know what I'm going to do though. I am going to contact the mortgage company, and make sure I have an open line of communication with them, just in case she tries to block that. After I've established that again, I'll have a talk with her.

I thought that you were all done with her after the observatory fiasco.

Thanks Bria. She brings up the observatory when I talk to her as something I screwed up for her. I sold the building, helped disassemble it, and kicked in some money out of my pocket when she didn't get as much as I'd hoped for. I was working on having the scope refurbished when she started threatening to sue me. I was literally writing the check to the telescope maker when she started texting me with legal action. So I just told her I was through - I couldn't take it anymore. She found a place that sold it on consignment, and rather quickly, but she didn't get the price I'd hoped she'd get. So that's my fault too. I should've ignored her threats against me (which she won't talk about), and found a buyer for a higher price, without the commission the consignment seller took. Maybe she wants me to pay her the consignment fee? She brings up stuff like this all the time. It makes talking to her kind of painful for me emotionally. I mean, I know it's painful for her to talk with me, she makes that clear to me. I guess I don't try to deliberately hurt her feelings. (I really don't, it bothers me that just talking to me seems painful for her.)

Sorry, I don't mean to tell a lot of uninteresting details, or say bad things about her. I think the fairest thing to be said is that we have both been through a lot, and aren't really very good at working together cooperatively anymore. I hope we are able to work together, to resolve the house she plans to abandon in a way that is least harmful for the both of us, but given our history over the last three years or so, I'm not totally optimistic about that. Still, I intend to try. However, I will NOT do anything that will hurt me. Not this time.

edit: I'm going to talk to her about all this, and try to work something out this week. I don't expect I'll succeed at that. I have failed every single time I have tried to compromise with her over the past 3 years. I'm surprised how much I still grieve over our breakup. I hate how much she still grieves. I'm crying a lot tonight while I think about talking with her. I know, after the conversation, that I'm going to feel like a horrible human being. It doesn't matter what I say or do - I am pretty sure I could just cave in and give her what she wants - which I literally cannot do - and she'd still make me feel just terrible. I keep telling myself that I'm not going to let this bother me, but I know that is a lie. It is going to bother me, and in fact bothers me a lot right now. Really, at this point, I just want this to be over, and to never have to deal with her again. I miss her, and I miss the relationship the way it used to be. But I have pretty much concluded that it's likely that she is always going to hate me, and that nothing even approximating friendship is ever going to happen between us. (Honestly, being able to be in the same room, and talk, for more than 10 minutes would be a big improvement.)

I'm sorry, it's stupid to even think about all this. We would never be friends. I am not the type of woman she'd ever like, even were there no history between us.

I think it's very likely that I'll lose my kids once and for all over this - that they'll side with her and decide that I'm terrible. My step-son, and daughter in law skipped having dinner with me for their birthday's (they both have birthdays in the same week in march), and complained that I'd talked, in extremely vague terms I might add, about being sad about how things are between me and her, on FaceBook. I really only said "there's trouble between us, and I'm sad about it."
I'm not sure when or if I'll see them next. It kind of hurt a little extra, hearing them be so steadfast against hearing *any* information from me about my life, because the month before, I'd bailed them out of a big credit card mess they'd gotten themselves into. It was several thousand dollars, and they were really sweating it. It's not that I think I should be able to buy their love or loyalty. It doesn't work that way. But it'd be nice if it felt like they cared about my life to a small degree.

I think I just need to leave this place, and just disappear to someplace where they'll never find me. They could just make up whatever story they want about why I'm not around. Maybe that would be easier on everyone, my ex, my kids, my old ex friends. They could just not talk about me, and pretend it all never happened. I can't believe that any of them would ever understand, or like me, if they knew what I was really like. I think about coming out to them as being bisexual and polyamorous sometimes. But I just drop something heavy on my foot, instead. It hurts less, and is over more quickly.

I don't believe any of them know what they want from a relationship with me. I think what they really don't understand is that it's pretty obvious they don't want a relationship with me at all. They want him back. But he's gone. I couldn't be him again now even if I wanted to. I don't remember how, for one thing.

[Mayo]

Without getting into details, my ex plays the victim card a lot too, though both of us were to blame in various ways. She prolonged the divorce process over 8 years and it cost us each close to $100K. She actually and literally threatened a 'scorched earth' approach on several occasions - that she would destroy everything rather than concede certain issues. If you believe that your ex is in this state of mind, you really have no choice but to act in the best interests of you both - to do anything else will be giving in to her anger and prolonging the agony for everyone and leave you both destitute. (Ten years on, my ex and I can be civil to each other now, most of the time....)

[STACY B]

LAWDY,,LAWDY,,LAWDY,,, You sure are an old softy you,,, I Love my wife more than anything on earth and wouldn't want her to suffer at all for anything, But when I tell you something and you won't or don't heed my warning I leave it all up to you, Cause once it's all said and done I am looking out for number one,, I can take you with me but other than that yull be sucking hind Tit,,, SO LIKE I SAID IN SOMEONES BEST INTEREST they better HEED the WARNINGS,, Y.O.L.O..

[char GG]

I'm a little surprised that your attorney didn't make sure that you were protected from the type of situation your wife is putting you through by making sure that your name was off of your wife's house mortgage and make her responsible for that debt.

Doesn't the divorce being "final" mean that your obligations are in writing? Things seem to keep popping up!

I hope your situation improves. Best wishes.

[cdlove]

Paula’s story is one of the main fears that I have about coming out. I am in the fortunate position to not be married, nor have any children but I struggle in a similar way. Minus all of the housing and back and fourth conflict with the ex, I fear that I will be alone forever. I have had relationships one engagement that all ended when I came clean with my CD. I don’t identify with Transgender even though I think it could be concluded that is what I am. I am a straight male that is interested in women only so I have a hard time accepting that I am transgender. It could be because I am still trying to fully accept that women may not accept me for my crossdressing and how do I deal with that issue.

My engagement ended one month before the wedding all over the fact that she could not accept my crossdressing. I have had one relationship where the woman was open to me wearing only panties that looked like men’s panties. She informed me that it made her more accepting of it if it looked and felt like briefs that a man would wear. I simply cannot conform to what others want me to wear just because it makes them comfortable with me.

When I was younger I didn’t have a choice about revealing my crossdressing to my family. At the age of 14 I was arrested for shoplifting panties and bras from a retailer and thus the fact that I am a crossdresser was flung out into my community. My parents had known since I was a child I had an obsession with women’s panties but they saw it more of a phase then an actual lifestyle or problem. I was on a swim team growing up and when I got into high school I would sneak into the ladies’ locker room during early morning practice and steal the ladies panties and suits. It may seem gross but when you are 13-14 and have no money or means of transportation you take some drastic measures. Panties have always been my most prized possession because I can wear them when ever and where ever. When the news that I had been arrested broke and it was discovered what was stolen, the jig of who was taking the women’s clothing from the locker room was up.

My forced outing brought with it a truck load of psychological issues as well as isolation. Imagine going through school and being an elite athlete and having absolutely no friends because you are seen as an outcast among society as a whole. I was even seen by my parents as someone with “severe mental issues” and thus thrown into heavy therapy. My parents would not accept me for my crossdressing stating that I needed to “grow up, and “if you want to be a girl then find another family.” Simply put it was not accepted nor was it tolerated to be an individual who did not conform to the gender that I was born as.

When I was 16 I had finally found a friend who by coincidence had the same name as me. I was able to for the first time know what it was like to have a “friend”. I would soon be mistaken though as this so called friend was not a friend at all but a predator. As we all could probably agree high school age is a wacky time for every individual. Your body is going through so many changes, your mental chemicals are all over the place, and your identity of who you will be as an adult is being developed. My “friend” did an unthinkable act because he was trying to find where he fit in, he was gay and hearing of my outing opened the door for him to confirm his identity with me. He physically abused me one night, and then sexually assaulted me. It was an event that has forever changed my life and has been the reason I have a very difficult time accepting who I am and more so my CD.

I am able to talk about this now because of intense therapy spanning 17+ years and have finally gotten to a point where I am beginning to let the ghost of my past be just that, a ghost. Why do I bring this all up? I suppose to point out that I have never had the chance to come out as I would like. It has started to be easier to come out to people I know, as this day in age minds seem to be more open to indifferences. My parents and sibling are still on the fence by they are starting to open up a little and accept the little things. I hide my CD side from my family because of their disapproval. I am not saying that coming out is something that is ever easy, what I am saying is that everyone has to do it in their own way on their own terms. If you are robbed of this opportunity you end up not knowing or accepting who you are and thus live a life of shame and misunderstanding until you open up to yourself.

[PaulaQ]

Doesn't the divorce being "final" mean that your obligations are in writing? Things seem to keep popping up!

Final does indeed mean that it's all in writing, and filed with the court. Unfortunately, it's possible to violate the terms of the contract we signed. And yes, my attorney did me no favors by not insisting that the house be refinanced, or sold within a set period of time. I'm not sure if my ex could've qualified for the mortgage on her own though. Maybe with my alimony payments added... Oh well, nothing I can do about that now. There is some protection in the decree for me, so I do have some control over what happens. And yeah, it's kind of amazing how this just keeps going on and on.

Paula’s story is one of the main fears that I have about coming out. ... I fear that I will be alone forever. I have had relationships one engagement that all ended when I came clean with my CD.

Hon, I'm really sorry about how you feel, I mean that. You've had just an awful time. And I'm really sorry you were sexually assaulted - I can only imagine the degree to which that wounded you. I have to believe it makes it even harder for you to open up and to trust others.

I would point out to you though that being alone is not part of my journey. I know many of us are terribly lonely. I see this all the time. It saddens me. It is unfair. However, I've been in five relationships since I started transition. This is more than I've been in during the 50 prior years of my life. I'm currently living with, and engaged to a really wonderful man. I'm also dating another woman. My fiancé knows and is fine with this - in fact he and my girlfriend are really good friends. I can honestly tell you that I feel more connected to people since transition, and there is far more love in my life than there ever was.

But what I hope that you, and anyone else, who reads my story will consider the following. Sure, I've talked about the losses I've suffered. I've gotten off lightly compared to so many others I know - and yet my losses are real, and they are painful. But consider that my relationships now, and my life now, were completely unimaginable to me three years ago. I have gained a lot - I know who I am. I understand how I work, who I love. And so if the potential for loss seems huge, please know that the potential for gain is also huge. I hope that if my life shows anything, it shows possibility, and hope. That someone can survive transition, be pretty happy, and experience a life beyond their imagining. It won't always be a happy life - there will be tragedy. But there will also be joy the likes of which you can't understand right now.

Anyway, I hope that comes through my narrative. It's why I'm telling it. There is hope.

I don’t identify with Transgender even though I think it could be concluded that is what I am. I am a straight male that is interested in women only so I have a hard time accepting that I am transgender. It could be because I am still trying to fully accept that women may not accept me for my crossdressing and how do I deal with that issue.

There are many straight woman who will not accept your crossdressing. This is true. Femininity in men isn't well accepted in our society.

That said, have you ever considered that perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond, or with the wrong bait? Perhaps you aren't a crossdressing straight man - maybe you are a lesbian transgender woman? In that case, you'd want to date women who like other women. (lesbian or bisexual women.) Or maybe you really are a straight man - you'd want to look for women who are open minded. There are straight women who can accept a CD, and there are definitely bisexual women who'd have no problem with you. The kink community might be a good place to try to meet people.

But I think before you are likely to find love, you need to understand who and what you are, and learn to accept and love yourself, to be true to yourself - whatever that turns out to mean. If you can find a way to be open and authentic, and to open your heart, you are much more likely to find love. And I am not trying to trivialize this, nor your suffering. I know you have been through some awful things, and recovering from them is not easy at all. But I think it is possible.

It seems to me though, just speaking as someone who's been through some things, that your first order of business is being able to answer as rigorously honestly as possible the question:
"Who am I?"

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Mayo's advice is simple, but excellent. But I'd go further. Get all this in writing - the whole record of your financial settlements to her - and your suggestions and options from now on, and the consequences to you both of her continued non-cooperation; get it witnessed, and send it not only to her attorney, but to her, and to your children (assuming they're old enough to comprehend it.)

That way at least it's all out in the open and nobody down the line can say you didn't act with the utmost generosity.

As somebody else said, you're always going to feel guilty, but you don't have to spend the rest of your life guilty and broke.

I only wish we could wave a magic wand and make your ex see the folly of her ways. Great to hear you're doing well otherwise Paula.

[PaulaQ]

Well, I talked things over with her on Sunday. It didn't go over well. She expected me to either allow the foreclosure to happen, which would result in untold financial damage to me. (To her too, but she doesn't have anything other than that house.) She offered to give me the house back, provided I pay her all her alimony. Unfortunately, the mortgage payment, my part of my kid's student loans, and her alimony is >90% of my income. I couldn't make a car payment, much less pay rent or buy food. So as much as I'd like to help her, there are limits to what I can do.

I suggested we rent the place until it sells. I offered to help with any costs associated with this. My hope is we can dispose of it quickly. If not, I'll pay the mortgage, and deduct it from her alimony, which my divorce decree explicitly allows. So whatever she does, unless I allow otherwise, she has to pay for the place.

I'm hoping she'll cooperate with all of this, so we can get it over with as quickly as possible, but I have my doubts. She blames me for everything. Which is unfair - she wanted the house. But I spent a half hour with her on the phone, listening to her blame me for all the poor decisions she's made since I came out to her, and misgendering me, and calling me by my deadname. Apparently, that's how it's going to be when I deal with her - she'll just call me by my deadname. Oh boy. I am not expecting this process to be pleasant. At the end of it, we're unlikely to ever speak again, which is what she wants. That makes me sad, but given all that's happened, realistically, that's for the best. I'd hoped for a better outcome though.

Despite all that, I feel really bad for her. She's an alcoholic train wreck at this point. She's made horrible decisions, and managed to destroy every resource she's had. I know that she is really hurting. There just isn't much I can do about that. I'd hoped things would go very differently for her. But her response to her grief from the loss of our marriage has been just a terrible thing, and she's hurt herself, and I think continues to do so.

I'd be sadder about this, but I'm dealing with too many other problems in the local trans community that are far more serious than stuff I'm dealing with here, and I just don't have the energy to grieve a whole lot about my situation. No one is likely to die here, best I can tell, and that's in marked contrast to other situations I'm involved in.

[Pat]

Sorry to read of all the turbulence around you at the moment. I hope it smooths out in time.

Regarding misgendering and the use of your "deadname" you have to give people from your past extra latitude. The image of you is already set in their neural pathways and it's not always done with malice (My gf is TS and faces this frequently.) And in cases where it is meant in disrespect you have to decide if you want to get into that morass -- pro'ly not worth it if you're looking for a clean exit.

I hope it all works out for the best.

[flatlander_48]

PQ:

Sad, sad situation...

Many years ago I did personal introspection work for quite a while. One of the phrases that stuck with me early on was "We don't always act in our own best interests.". When we try to exact revenge or fix the past, for example, it diverts time, effort and resources away from what could be used to move forward and get on with things for the future. It would seem that this is where your ex-wife is stuck. She believes that all this is hurting you, which it is to an extent, but it's not having the effect that she would want. However, what she hasn't understood yet (and hopefully will at some point) is that you have a path forward that appears to be working for you, but she does not. Unfortunately that light bulb just hasn't turned itself on so far.

Once again, "We don't always act in our own best interests.".

DeeAnn

[PaulaQ]

Regarding misgendering and the use of your "deadname" you have to give people from your past extra latitude. The image of you is already set in their neural pathways and it's not always done with malice (My gf is TS and faces this frequently.) And in cases where it is meant in disrespect you have to decide if you want to get into that morass -- pro'ly not worth it if you're looking for a clean exit.

Oh no, she made it very clear that she was dead naming me on purpose. "I'm calling you 'S____' - I don't know who 'Paula' is." I didn't fight with her about it. Hopefully our contact will be minimal, and hopefully the stupid house will sell, and this will all be over with.

I have to be honest, my sadness that we aren't going to be friends someday, and my sympathy for her, are diminishing fairly rapidly. I know that what happened hurt her - I hurt her by not being honest about myself up front before we ever dated. I take responsibility for that. In my defense, I didn't feel at the time I had a whole lot of choice, and I did love her. But I can say that I've never deliberately tried to hurt her. The same is obviously not true about her - she wants me to suffer.

Once again, "We don't always act in our own best interests.".

No, we surely do not. I do feel that a likely outcome of all this is that she'll likely finish turning my kids against me. They are 75% of the way there. I'm reasonably certain a relationship with them in the future isn't going to happen either. Unless maybe they end up needing some financial help. Then they usually make up with me long enough to get it. :/

[LaurenS]

It seems to me that in spite of your generosity, she is FORCING you to be offensive and protect yourself. It's not you forcing it, it is her.

I know how hard it will be for you, but you can still be empathetic to her situation, but regrettably, she has left you no choice.

I hate it when that happens. It's a tough decision, but mostly it's just a tactic that must be exercised. If nothing else, she might - although I doubt it - respond more reasonably if she is faced with her being the big loser.

Unfortunately, there are no winners in war. Be thinking about you.

[RachelB.]

She is relishing her role as the victim. You are enabling her to be the victim by bending over backwards trying to please her. When you have done everything you can sometimes it isn't enough. That's when you need to cut ties, protect yourself, and walk away. It is hard to do, I have not been through this with a spouse but a similar situation with a child and my parents. I finally had to explain what I was willing to do and not do for my daughter. When they decided it wasn't enough I had to walk away. I didn't speak to them for over a year. My parents finally came around after she stole money and prescription medications. I still only hear from her when she needs something. My parents and I reestablished our relationship and had several good years before they passed away.

Protect yourself and move on with the new life you have started.

[PaulaQ]

That's when you need to cut ties, protect yourself, and walk away

Well, that's the goal. Until we can get rid of the house (since she never refinanced it into her name alone), I have to deal with her, or at least deal with getting rid of the house. I'm on the hook for that, like it or not. Believe me, I don't like that!

I'm going to have to negotiate some practical details about getting the place sold with her once she leaves it. That may or may not be pleasant. I may try to do that by text message. Talking by voice didn't go well. I still hope to avoid the worst case, which could realistically involve her getting no further alimony at all if she defaults on the mortgage.

[flatlander_48]

PQ:

Something just occurred to me. I'm sure that we've all heard the term "Upside Down" as it applies to mortgages. As we know, the value and what is owed create a situation that is disadvantageous.

But consider this...

The human mechanism will almost always defaut to self-preservation unless there are some specific circumstances at work, such as putting ones life in danger in order to keep someone else out of danger. But, the thought that came to me was that the Ex is Upside Down in that she would rather punish you severely, exact revenge on you, rather than look after her own needs. That is some POWERFUL stuff and it's not going to go away easily. The thing is, even if you were to go down as the result from all of this, I doubt if it would be enough.

DeeAnn

[Eryn]

Paula, there comes a point where you have to distance yourself and hire a disinterested professional to represent your interests. Staying in the loop has been both financially and emotionally disastrous for you. Cut your losses, make the most advantageous settlement possible for the house, and move on. This would be best for you and for your ex.

Continuing to play your ex's emotional games is bad for you and ultimately bad for her too, because sooner our or later you will be bled dry and she'll need to learn to lead an independent life. Better that happens while you still have a pot to **** in.