Is it really about passing??

[St. Eve]

OK, so for the decades I was in the closet, I fantasized about really passing and living life as an accepted woman.
Now that I am coming out and accepting my dual gendered nature, I am less inclined to want to pass and more inclined to want to be accepted for who I really am - a biologically male person who experiences both gender realities inside. Would I like to blend, yes. Would I like to be accepted by cis gendered men and women as I am, blending or not, expressing socially unacceptable mixtures of gender - YES.

Questions, comments, thoughts, complaints???

Peace
Stevie

[CarlaWestin]

Passing is more of a benchmark goal but not exactly a necessity.

[Kate Simmons]

For myself it's mostly about being comfortable with who I am.

[mykell]

here we go again

[Krisi]

You are free to do what you want as long as you're not hurting yourself or your loved ones. Will you be accepted by men and women as you are? Probably not.

Crossdressing is viewed by most of the public as a fetish or a mental illness. "Dual gendered" is certainly viewed as a mental illness by many people. Some people will accept you, many will tolerate you. Some will try to "fix" you. Some will go out of their way to avoid you and a few will try to harm you.

Once you come out of the closet, you can't go back in. This is something you should think long and hard about. Only you can decide if it's worth the trouble it will cause.

[Teresa]

Stevie,
I look back to some early pictures I posted and asked the question do I pass even tough I didn't show my face, ( Long story about an argument with a tree and it came off best !) I received some very encouraging replies, being in the closet is always that goal to feel you're good enough to finally venture out the door.

Now I've done it the question doesn't have the same importance, I've met other CDers and members of the public, the fact is it's me dealing with my needs, not putting on an act to be a glamorous woman , because if I did I'd fall off my 4" heels flat on my face !
Do I blend ? do I pass ? does it matter , if you're OK with people they'll talk to you, maybe about CDing issues if they're curious . Last time out I got into a conversation with the hotel owner and his wife about cruising , at one point I admitted to the wife that my dream would be to spend the evenings dressed, the husband turned to me and said I wouldn't sit next to you at dinner, his wife said he wouldn't have realised until you spoke !

Krisi,
The majority of people are fully aware that CDing isn't a mental illness, perhaps they would like to think so because that would raise their hopes of a cure , I'm sure my wife would overdose me if that were the case.

[Allison_CD]

People are afraid to post pics on here as they do not pass.
In reality many many CD ers are fat hairy men. Nothing wrong with that I exclaim but get real gurls. xx

[ClosetED]

I view it as accepting I am a hetero CDer. We are the lucky ones who can choose to present as male or female as we choose, not being stuck in only one appearance. While we would like society to be accepting of people who flip back and forth, that is rare (Erika Linder, Elliott Sailors, Casey Legler, Andrej Pejic at first). But society is making progress and those who don't realize we can present as either appearance seem to mostly accept what their eyes see and lets that be enough.
Hugs, Ellen

[Krisi]

I think people are afraid to post pictures here because of what might become of them. Most of us don't want our family members, neighbors and co-workers or boss to see photos of us dressed in fake boobs and miniskirts. Once you put something on the Internet, you lose control of it.

Some people don't care and that's fine as long as they understand the risks.

[Georgina]

I have always thought passing was an extension of the closet. You are out but you are not out.

[Jaymees22]

I like to think of myself as a plausible woman instead of passable. Meaning if someone sees me out and about they think that's probably a woman, but if they don't so be it. Hugs Jaymee

[Kimberly2112]

The general public will have a lot less trouble dealing with you if they think you're a cisgender person on one of the poles of the gender binary. Otherwise, like Krisi says, you get reactions ranging from total acceptance to hostility. I think society is become more accepting of nonbinary presentations, but we still have a long way to go.

If we're talking about what makes you happy, there's no right or wrong answer. Some want to be totally immersed in a different gender role, others would rather mix and match. I think the trick is to find the best balance between what makes you happy, what's possible and what people can accept.

[heatherdress]

The perception that you "pass" (or blend, or do not attract attention, or look female) and the belief that you are "accepted" are totally different.

Passing is based primarily on visual appearance (includes beauty, clothing, make-up, hair, mannerisms, voice, build, size) and is influenced by setting, observers, time of day, lighting, proximity, distractions.

Acceptance depends on other's beliefs, education, experiences, culture, ethnicity, religion, frame-of-mind.

- You can pass and be accepted to some or to most, you can pass and not be accepted to some or to most, you can not pass and be accepted to some or to most, or you can not pass and not be accepted to some or to most, regardless of how you define passing, acceptance and degree of acceptance.
- You can remain in the closet even if you pass or even if you would be accepted - because you don't want to be known as a crossdresser to family or friends or occupation

I think passing or blending to some degree is comforting, acceptance by others is something we have minimal ability to control and influence, but acceptance of ourselves, whether in the closet or out, is what is most important. Do you really want to live your day-to-day life worrying about the general public?

It's really about what you feel about yourself and how you live your life.

[Pat]

Re: "passing (is) an extension of the closet." I really like that metaphor. It works for my approach to life, but it's reasonable for others to have their own standards.

Edit: I think it depends a lot on your internal reason for passing. If you do it because it gives you joy, that's a totally valid thing. If you do it because you fear the consequences of NOT passing, then the closet metaphor is probably just. In my case I don't want people to think I'm actually a woman -- that to me is dishonest. But I do get joy out of looking womanly. So I dress, sometimes to the nines, but don't try to pass. Some are like me, some are not. We all have a right to be who we are.

[Jenniferathome]

Stevie, there was a time just after I came out to my wife where I thought passing as a genetic female was important. As a result, I was always searching for that one special accessory or outfit that would make that magic happen. I can tell you now, that was wasted time and effort.

Cross dressers do not pass as genetic women. Yes, I burst many bubbles with that statement but it's truth is undeniable. "Blending," to me, means not being noticed. I think that is possible for some cross dressers if dressed appropriately for the time, place, and your age, as most people are wrapped up in their own world. Still, even blending is impossible for some cross dressers due to the obviousness of size and/or girth. There is a bell curve of blending and as yo get to the edges, blending stops.

No, that stated, what I have come to learn after being out many times is that if one is confident, that confidence somehow affects the perception of the normals. If you think you belong, the average normal will read you as belonging. I do not pass a genetic woman, ever. I suspect that I blend for the most part until I have a personal interaction and then I am likely to be perceived as trans. My wife thinks that is true. But what is important is that I am comfortable and that puts others in a more receptive state.

[Jennifer in CO]

when I transitioned back in the early 80's, my "goal" was to not so much be accepted as a woman, but not look like a "man in a dress"...ae to blend. After a couple of years, letting my 32C's show a bit and long curly hair to the middle of my back made being accepted as a woman that much easier even tho I was over 6ft. I regularly wore lower cut blouses and dresses so that there was no mistaking I was a woman at first (or second) glance.

So to me, "passing" just means to "pass you by" and not notice anything out of the expected norm...

[docrobbysherry]

It must be nice to want to present as a man in a dress, Stevie. Because u don't have be concerned about how fem u look or if u may pass occasionally. On the other hand, you'll have to develope a thick skin. And, get used to being treated different than you're used to. And, take it from me, it's NOT all politically correct SA's trying to pretend you're just another GG customer.

The more I go out the more I feel that dressing to blend is a cop out unless u can pass. When u pass, people treat u like a woman without thinking about it. It's happened to me on a few occasions at Halloween. When it happens to u, YOU'LL KNOW!

Since I can't pass up close, I believe dressing to blend is a waste of time. So, I now dress in outfits I enjoy and feel good wearing. That way, along with the hoots, WTF's, and overly helpful SA's, I may get a few honest compliments about my clothes!

[Eva Bella]

Like the OP, I enjoy being who I am. Although I've got a curvy rear and soft facial features for a guy, my arms and legs are far too muscular to pass for a genetic woman.

I've definitely attracted a lot of attention on my few outings, but honestly, a genetic girl with my build wearing tight and short clothing probably would too. Some people don't like to see a man in womens clothes, and some people don't like to see a woman with muscles.

But screw them. It's about being yourself, being confident, and asserting the fact that you belong.

[Rachael Leigh]

Stevie yes I so agree and the more I go out the more I feel that is possible.
I've gone out knowing I'm not fully passing but usually feel comfortable and in general seem accepted
Yes I'm ok with that
I also would say that passing is not the be all that is end all either. Just be yourself and enjoy, it's what I've found to be true

[suzanne]

Interesting thread. Does it reflect the beginning of a refreshing change of direction, to where the goal is being comfortable being YOURSELF, whoever that is? That's what works for me. I just try to make my "guy in a dress" presentation look as good as possible, to the point where it looks natural for me to be there in a skirt. I never thought I would hear in this forum that passing could be thought of as a form of hiding in the closet.

[Tracii G]

When the comments start referring to "binary this binary that" like its some sort of scientific rule is where I have problems with discussions like this.
Hell science doesn't know how YOU feel about yourself they just guess and make up stuff.
Be yourself and be confident and most of all be happy.
Do we ever pass? Sure I suppose but people don't pay close attention most of the time. The fear of not passing is what keeps a lot in the closet.
Once you get over that fear passing is a moot point.
Go out do what you normally do dressed to fit in your surroundings and you will most likely not be noticed.

[ariannavt]

For many reasons I would like to "pass", but I think an important step for me was realizing that I don't HAVE TO pass. My gender presentation is for me. It's not a show I am putting on for others. Of course, if you really want the world to treat you as a (insert appropriate gender here) then passing can really help clear some of the hurdles.

[amy1989]

When I was a teen I wouldnt have considered going out unless I passed. Now i think I need to go out even if I don't pass. Like other members have said I now think it's more important to feel comfortable than to pass.

[josie_S]

I saw this video on youtube (see below) about a woman who coaches cis men on femininity and I was particularly struck by the host/journalist's opinions on what being feminine is (as well as some of the cis women she interviewed on the street) and how put off they were (at least initially) that anyone can teach/coach femininity, as if there is one standard for being a woman/feminine. She said Monica Prata (the coach) was "straight out of a rom-com" and was offended at her idea of what being a woman meant since she (the journalist) has personally spent so much time and energy reshaping and carving out her own persona as a woman, consciously going counter what she sees as a 50s idea of what a woman is supposed to be since it's one that has been shaped by patriarchy and heteronormativity. I may not be summing it up fully here (its a 17 minute video but if you have the time, I think it's worth it) but I hope you get my drift...

As I read this thread and have thought about "passing" and "blending" and "looking like a *real* woman" when I dress or shop or go out or all three, I can't help but notice that my shoulders are broad, my voice is deep, my arms and chest aren't hairy but my beard is heavy, I don't have hips, and, no matter how tight I pull the corset, I won't have the exact shape of a woman...and then I realized I was doing exactly what that journalist was initially resentful about. How could I be so beholden to patriarchy when I'm wearing mascara and Chanel No.5? (It was probably a Britney Spears scent that I bought at Wal mart but you get my point :P) I'm one of the good guys! (as it were...lol)

Then something else dawned on me, and I hope this is helpful here: I don't know why I like wearing nails and lipstick and panties and heels. I don't know why I like wearing wigs and dresses and skirts and pretty jewelry. I don't know why I like lining my eyes and fanning out my lashes or seeing myself in the mirror after all that effort. I just like it. Because, isn't dressing up fun? Isn't getting dolled or dudded up fun? It is to me. It's about having fun. Enjoying myself. Enjoying the process of it all, even shaving. I think I've realized it's not about passing. I think it's about how much fun I have. Sorry for the rant, but I think that journalist would admit that even if she doesn't dress up like she's out of a rom-com, she still enjoys how she dresses up. So do I. I bet we all do



https://youtu.be/ACVM1BUY8tY

[aprilgirl]

For me personally, my goal has always been to be presentable. I may pass to anyone who doesn't give me a second glance or thought, but that's where it ends, and that's okay.