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Thread: Somewhere in the middle

  1. #1
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Somewhere in the middle

    Hi everyone. Not any new development of myself, more of a gradual understanding really. My CDing itself isn't taking on any new dimensions. I am never desperate to dress. I never get depressed when I don't, or when I change back to men's clothing. But, nor do I ever feel a need for me to not dress, or change back either.

    Dressing for me is never about any thrill. I don't get anything sexual from it. I don't become anyone different, or go into some other space in my head. It just feels comfortable, relaxing and natural when I do. To this day, I do not have any other name than my own. No female name attached to me.

    I do get frustrated sometimes being a man and not a woman. I often feel I relate to women better than men. I sometimes do check the TS section and once in a while do make an occasional post, but there is not really where I feel I am most aligned to either.

    I never actually get a feeling of "I am a woman." For me, it is more like I am more like them, at times. But so too at times, it will evaporate. I love to play golf. When I do, I am all guy on the golf course. I like to hit from the back tees. Hit it long, play aggressively. When I am playing golf, it is like TG doesn't exist for me. Most often too when I am with my kids. Sometimes too at work. (not always though)

    Where some on here have goals to achieve, or pursue or be able to be more feminine, I do not. Femininity in as far as mannerisms all comes natural to me. I have to practice nothing at all. When I am at work or in other social situations, I have to sometimes work to keep those mannerisms hidden. At least not so obvious anyway. Sometimes it sneaks out, and I have heard occasional comments through my life.

    While over time, I am coming to accept myself more, and be more comfortable with myself, the femininity seems to show itself more. But- my desire to dress seems to not increase either. If anything, I feel less of a desire?? I feel more comfortable than ever when dressed, but whereas when I made the initial plunge to self acceptance and allowed myself to dress, I remember going home from work and it would be the 1st thing I would do. Or if my wife would be gone to her sisters or friends. She would be pulling out of the driveway and I was already upstairs changing. Now, I do not get that type of feeling. But again as I said, when I am dressed, I am more comfortable now than ever before.

    I guess I am just somewhere in the middle in the whole gender spectrum. Wearing male clothing does not bother me.... but NOT wearing female clothing sometimes does, if that makes any sense at all, because TBH, it doesn't for me. How can I be not bothered to be dressed as a male but be bothered to not be dressed as a female??

    Either gender pronoun seems to equally fit me. Describe me as she, or he, and neither feels wrong. I am not in a state of crisis or turmoil.... but, so often though, the masculine and feminine aspects of myself sometimes do collide in ways. My nails are definitely borderline girl length. When they get long, I like it, but I don't like it. Make sense yet? or is anyone reading this have their head spinning as mine often does lol. I feel great when I shave my body, but then sometimes get a feeling like I am going to grow the hair back (I never do though) but it is almost like there are moments when I miss it. Yet, a few days of stubble on my chest or legs will drive me insane. I feel a sense of relief when I feel only smooth skin....

    Anyway, I have no goals, no destination other than peace and happiness. Perhaps this place in the middle, or both is really where I need to be. I have no plans to go further, dress more, or less, feel any more or less of anything. I never really have. I am just slowly accepting myself for myself, and find myself more and more somewhere in the middle between male and female.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  2. #2
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Okay. Sounds reasonable.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  3. #3
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    I guess I am wondering how many others relate to this? I probably should have added that in the OP.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member Georgette_USA's Avatar
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    I can understand some of your story. I just don't identify with it. I am glad that you can accept both your sides.

    When young <19 and at home. My parents did not believe in tight gender roles. My 3 brothers and I shared in all the chores. All my fathers yard work and things like wallboard and painting in the house. We did a lot of my mothers work also. Dishes - some baking - housecleaning. And later when my sister came along we helped with her, feeding - taking her on excursions in the neighborhood - some washing till she got older - mom still did the main diapers with pins and all. My mother wanted us to be independent and not have to rely on someone else.

    In school would get bullied sometimes called sissy. Even driven to fight and than said to fight like a girl. I'm not sure what would prompt this as I didn't think I projected that.

    One of the things that I argue with others are on these male activity things. Cannot a woman also play golf aggressive. We all learn to do different things in life, why do we need to call them male or female things. The only male/female thing is sex for pro-creation. Since woman can't create sperm on their own.

  5. #5
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    i totally understand this, GM, tho i have factors which take me across the divide. A woman can also enjoy playing golf, physical power play as well. Your natural body-gesture femininity is something i also share, i get that. A person who can be comfortable as a feminine spirit in a male body is a rare and special being, able to flow wherever the situation desires. No reason to change, enjoy the experience! xx
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
    I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.

    thanks to krististeph: tigger = TG'er .. T-I-GG-er

  6. #6
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    I can relate to just about everything you have written. I am a late starter (2006) for this totally other side of me and my presentation of that. I love it and am very comfortable with myself with all of this. It all came to me like a perfect storm compared to what others have lived through and continue to live with on this site. I am mature (read old), single, had a successful battle with prostate cancer, live alone and retired. I have no one to answer to in my immediate house except myself and my cat, who thankfully accepts me totally! I am in the closet with my friends and family (no need to come out right now), and out to the world in general and go and do what I want as Allie when I want. However, I am starting to wonder if there is more to come?

    PS: Yes, women can be aggressive in sports, including golf. I think it was a way for GM to say that she still has some of her old male identified self traits as she expresses them, and I believe that she also knows that many woman have those same traits.
    Last edited by AllieSF; 04-14-2016 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Pam7, I know there are women who play golf, I follow it pretty intensely and even a little of the LPGA. While they, and other female athletes do use physical power to achieve success, the mindset of the average woman IS typically different. What I am talking about is the domination factor here. Other than me being a 7 hdcp golfer, I have a somewhat Tiger Woods mentality when I play. I don't just want to win, I want to stomp my opponent into the ground lol. I do lose with grace though, I promise I am not a sore loser. Not outwardly anyway lol.

    As for the ending compliment, thank you, although it is a frustrating way to be often times. There have been times I have thought to myself just pick a gender already IDC which one.
    Last edited by Tina_gm; 04-14-2016 at 02:59 PM.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  8. #8
    Lisa Allisa's Avatar
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    I hear ya GM. That's why I say I'm gender fluid.
    "you are a strange species and there are many out there;shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you ,you are at your best when things are at their worst" ...[ Starman]
    It may of course be a bit disturbing to sense that one is really not so firmly anchored to the gender one was born into.

  9. #9
    Aspiring Member JustWendy's Avatar
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    I can relate to much of what you say in your post, gendermutt. You are not alone. One difference, I do have a female name

    Wendy

  10. #10
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    I can sometimes relate to that term, but not always. When I play golf is just an example of when I am not feeling the feminine presence. Dual gender maybe for me, if there is a difference. Sometimes if flows evenly, sometimes it is more dominant on either side. It doesn't have a whole lot of pattern to it, other than golf and my kids. That is when TG for me seems to disappear, not the only times, but definitely those times. Other times, very random. Sometimes I am quite frustrated to not be a woman or at least dressed as one. Other times, I don't feel that way so much. And it seems to have little pattern to it.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  11. #11
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    I get where you are coming from GM.
    In regard to myself I am more female than male and that is my normal mindset.I do have to hide my mannerisms around certain friends and continually watch how I react to things they say.

  12. #12
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Wendy, I have thought about a name, thought about a whole lot of them actually. I just can't seem to find one that makes me think or feel aha. So I just gave up trying.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  13. #13
    Aspiring Member JustWendy's Avatar
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    GM, I went decades without even thinking about a name. But there were a couple of changes in my life about 8 years ago, I became more focused on my gender identity, I started thinking about what I would have liked to have been named if I had been born female. A couple of months before I joined this forum, it just came to me, and I knew it fit. Yours may sneak up on you the same way.

    Wendy

  14. #14
    Gold Member Dana44's Avatar
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    Gendermutt, That is like gender fluid definition. The only difference is the dysphoria is more present in us. But we have no goals or destination. Just to enjoy life and I think we are richer for it. Now on golf, we did go as girls on a golf outing at the Diva Las Vegas event. Every one of them said it was a blast being feminine out there on the course. We gender fluids are in the middle also.
    Part Time Girl

  15. #15
    New Member cdlove's Avatar
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    The Middle Is Where I Live And Where My War Starts.

    I would agree that I relate somewhat to Gendermutt in terms of feeling like I lie in the middle of the TG spectrum. As I have mentioned before I don’t recognize myself as either male or female but rather in the middle. What Gendermutt is referring to could also be considered gender identification/fluidity on the spectrum. I have no desire to go through the transition to be a full blown women, and I am not a man’s man by any means. I relate more to the female side of things but can do the things that you would view as the full blown male task.

    I can fix cars, do plumbing, etc. I can also tell you how to properly wear a bra what heels go with what, what line is in and such just as a woman would be able to do. I consider myself in the middle. I am not into sports the way the normal guys’ guy is I’d rather watch and follow Olympic sports. I love things with lace and in the color pink along with it being very feminine in dress, yet I also love a nice suit. I don’t possess anything that would make you think I have a very Fem side. I would have to work very hard to have female mannerisms other than my views from the outside I look like your normal guy.

    The middle is where I live but it is also an area that causes me a mental war with myself because of my lack of acceptance that it’s ok to slide on the spectrum. So for me the middle is my life but it’s also a constant mental war that seems to not have a clear ending.

    If you would like to read my blog where I dive into the question regarding the difference between cd and tg you can find it here: http://knockknockdepression.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by cdlove; 04-14-2016 at 09:43 PM. Reason: addition of further reading

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    I'm with you 100%, GM. I have zero interest in transitioning, I like being a guy, but feel I relate way more to women. To me,it's a pretty good balance.I'm not all torn up about being a cd er, I've come to peace with it, but what Ido doesn't define who I am. I'm just a fella that likes to dress up like a gal from time to time.

  17. #17
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    You do seem to be in the middle and have come to terms with this. It just shows that the whole CD phenomenon has a variety of aspects and being in the middle is one. I have always felt that there is a range of the CD phenomenon, going from the low key, part time CD, who dresses in closet is a few female items all the way to the very hard core CD who dresses every day. There is a huge variety of intermediate types. You are obviously a CD and fall somewhere in the middle. Nothing odd or wrong about that.

  18. #18
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Congratulations! You’ve achieved balance, which I dare say describes many other folks here including my SO.

    But one thing I’d like to ask about:

    Quote Originally Posted by gendermutt View Post
    Femininity in as far as mannerisms all comes natural to me. I have to practice nothing at all. When I am at work or in other social situations, I have to sometimes work to keep those mannerisms hidden. At least not so obvious anyway.
    What feminine mannerisms, specifically?

    I’ve read this many times here and it has always puzzled me. The differences I’ve observed between the average male or female are those related to how they’re actually built. Women generally have wider hips and therefore have a different center of balance than men, and so they walk differently. Men and women have different voices, different average heights, shoulder and head widths, different upper body strengths, etc, all due to their physical differences caused by their respective sex hormones. This makes sense. But differences in feminine and masculine mannerisms that are not accounted for by physical differences? I honestly cannot see any.

    So I googled. An example I found is a pop culture article listing 5 ways that men and women behave differently in restaurants. Turns out they’re all stereotypes and they don’t apply to the people I observe around me every day. I’ll quickly tackle them one by one, just to show the difference between pop culture and reality:

    http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/...r-differences/

    1) Women take longer to say goodbye. Does this mean that if my brother lingers to talk to an old friend for awhile, I’ll think he is acting in a feminine manner? Nonsense.

    2) Women want to know what everyone is ordering. More nonsense. If a male friend wants to know what I’m having, I won’t think this is a feminine question. I’ll take it he is having difficulty making up his mind. Often, couples on purpose order two different things so they can each have a taste of the other. You cover more menu ground that way.

    3) Women always want to try other people’s food. More nonsense. Wanting to try other people’s food relates to an interest in food and how it is prepared. Lots of guys are into cooking and when my son asks if he can try my sauce, I don’t think he is being effeminate. Also, if it’s a restaurant that people plan on returning to, it’s a good way to gauge whether or not you might want to order the other dish next time.

    4) Women touch other people more. Really? I have a solid network of female friends and I can honestly say that we don’t touch each other during conversations. We’ll greet each other hello and goodbye by touching, but men do the same thing. And lots of men hug goodbye too.

    5) The sexual element thing. This is true … there is more sexual tension between people who are potentially attracted to each other than between people who are not. But this is not a gendered difference … they do say, between a hetero, gay, and lesbian couples.

    I'm not saying you're referring to these specific things, I only used them as examples. But, are you sure that others think you have female mannerisms, or do you just think you do based on pop culture or stereotypes. I’m not wanting to attack you, I truly am puzzled by all of this because I see around me every day a wide range of manners from both men and women, most that overlap, and none that generally make me believe that a particular woman is behaving suspiciously more like a man or a man is behaving suspiciously more like a woman. There is simply too wide a range of mannerisms among both males and females; their respective bell curves do overlap to a greater degree than they don’t.
    Reine

  19. #19
    Non-binary/Questioning
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    I think society gets too hung up people on being one or the other gender because non-binary folks don't fit well in our convenient mental boxes. It's a form of erasure, like bisexual erasure - people want you to pick one gender (or orientation) and stick with it so they can slap the associated labels and stereotypes on you and not have to think about things beyond that. Hopefully this will change.

  20. #20
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Hi again, and thanks for the replies. I would not suggest any congratulations of balance though, as IT is at times a struggle and always will be. Not in achieving it, because I think even from the very start of my journey of acceptance and me allowing myself to CD, which began about 3 and a half years ago I had balance. It is living with it. Dealing with it.

    ReineD- as for the mannerisms I speak of, just everyday typical movements along with many thought patterns and some reactions. I would like to say 1st before I give my examples is that I wish many more people would view the world as you do, and not be so hypercritical of the perceived gender differences. Unfortunately, for a great many people both male and female, they do over scrutinize gender and its differences and what men and women are "supposed" to be.

    Mannerisms I speak of, gosh just about anything I do really. It tends to have a feminine characteristic to it. hand gestures seem to be where it shows up a lot. I have even been told by a former GF that I smoke like a girl. (and you are probably thinking how does one smoke in a gender specific way) and that is sort of the point that I am making, many people will pick anything and attach a gender label to it. The way I waive, sit, stand, walk (to a certain degree) I do not have the hip waggle, but I have a smoother glide like gait than most men do. My gait has been described as graceful, which personally I feel is a compliment, but in today's hyper gender labeling world, and for most guys nowadays, it is an insult.

    Women tend to talk more with their hands. They are more expressive with communication, which I certainly have a lot of. Besides hand gesture, women tend to be more facially expressive, and generally in a warmer way. More eye contact, nodding, or a head bob to the side.

    While I am a leg crosser, and I feel that something like that has been robbed of younger men (it'd damn comfortable) I do not personally see it as a feminine trait, but in today's hyper gender world, it now is, and we have had several threads on here about leg crossing. Look at any older movie and guys routinely crossed their legs at the knee, even Sean Connery while playing Bond did so. Watch in person or on any show or movie any younger male characters or younger males in public and see how many cross their leg at the knee. You won't find many, although many men above age 40 still do, as in their time it wasn't considered to be feminine.

    I also have a knack for a lot of talking, chatting in a way that would be more typical of women than men. Men tend to talk in a more brief less expressive colorful way. My wife has said that once while she was at work, at lunch actually I think, but I was talking to her and she had me on speaker phone and a co-worker made a comment about me being very chatty, like a girl.

    I am glad you do not view these things to be so dramatic. I really wish a lot more people had this it ain't no big thing attitude. unfortunately, we who have feminine traits deal with a lot of society who view us negatively because of it. I do make a bit of an effort to keep these toned down a bit when I am at work, or with friends. I used to be very conscious of it. Now, eh, I am sort of not being so over cautious of it. It can be stressful. I guess in a way I am mildly allowing people to view me as "not manly" even though today, and with all of the supposed gender variance acceptance, I really feel there is more emphasis for guys to be "masculine" than there has ever been.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  21. #21
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    so after your examples i must be more feminine also, im a total chatterbox, i talk with my hands, and although i cross at the knee when dressed i dont tend to do so when male, but unlike you some seemed to learn of my secret when i was young (not as skilled at hiding it as thought) and it has followed me through life, so yes some folks made some remarks.

    one thing i must admit is when cleaning up leaves in the fall i almost always catch myself with my arm to the side with the leaf-blower cord like my grandma when she vacuumed.
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  22. #22
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    hahaha Mikell, girly girl. Actually, my theory for us to have these feminine traits is two fold. One- is that we generally have a stronger connection to women, so their mannerisms wear off on us more. We see women do things a certain way and subconsciously emulate that. Secondly though is the hyper masculinity of recent times. Guys now for whatever reason, seem to be distinguishing themselves. I had written a post about it a while back. But I am seeing this more and more. Got to have a big bushy beard. Got to drive a truck, can't be crossing your legs or in any way appear to be feminine, period. I was just outside having a smoke and saw yet another guy.... more and more of it. He was walking, the beard, overalls.... manly man.... at first I thought I spotted sasquash. I mean this guy had a gait that was so lumbering and awkward looking. Either I am just realizing how fem I really am, or more and more, guys are becoming hyper masculine to prove to the world they are not TG.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  23. #23
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Oh ... you're talking about The Male Code? That's different. My son brought home a photocopy years and years ago, about 40 things that males do not do. Like share umbrellas or watch chick flicks. Must wear beard. Must drive truck. We had a good laugh.

    Here's one of the versions: http://www.oocities.org/moore_brando...1/malecode.htm

    Truth is though, as men get past their younger years and become more secure in themselves (less afraid of being branded a sissy?), The Code ceases to apply. Maybe it does continue in some male demographics, for example (and generally speaking) rural vs urban males? I cannot imagine two of my sons getting caught in a downpour and refusing to share the umbrella. Even so, among the male demographic that might believe in The Code well into their adulthood, I don't think that "sissy" has the same meaning as "feminine"?

    If I have it all wrong, then I apologize. Men don't tend to show their homophobia in front of women as much as they might among themselves, so I have not been exposed to the same ultra-macho attitudes that you might have. But yes, I agree, if some of the ways you behave might be construed as "gay" by some rather narrow-minded men, I understand why you might not want to give that impression.

    If you believe that The Code is gaining in importance among some males, then I dunno ... sometimes I think this country is going backwards. When I've gone to Europe I've seen lots of men hug, use bags, well groomed, enjoy a variety of the niceties of life, etc, without fearing that others might think them sissy.

    Edit - Gosh, sorry Gendermutt, sometimes not all posts immediately appear when I've logged out and log back in and I am just now seeing your post #20. I don't mean to minimize what you're saying, but I observe a lot of detail and I've lived in many different places in both Canada and the US, in small towns and large cities. I've also travelled outside the continent quite a bit. There are indeed men who talk with their hands without people believing they are feminine. Sitting? Men cross their legs too. Expressive and animated? This again is not the sole domain of women. Maybe women do this more, but there is still tons of overlap between men and women. Same with eye contact, in fact I'd say a lot of men enjoy making eye contact. If you have wider hips than most males and this affects the way you walk, then you're just being true to how you're built. As to being a chatterbox, you should meet my youngest son. lol. None of these things would scream out "Oh look, this man is feminine". But, we all do perceive the world differently and since you believe that men and women behave in distinctly different ways with little overlap, then so be it. But I would like to encourage you to stop splitting yourself up into behaviors that you deem appropriate for male and female modes, and just be yourself.

    When I first met my SO, he had a lot of gendered beliefs, for example that it was feminine to want to dance and enjoy art, and more masculine to be stoic and logical. (The particular ways that people gender things are different for everyone). But, this is not the case any more and I'm glad.

    ... I'd also like to point out that lots of women don't talk with their hands, do not have animated expressions, shy away from direct eye contact, etc ...)
    Last edited by ReineD; 04-15-2016 at 02:09 PM.
    Reine

  24. #24
    Senior Member Nikkilovesdresses's Avatar
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    I'd love to see what would happen if you played golf en femme. Who knows? You might just hole in one.

    For some reason that sounds indecent...
    I used to have a short attention spa

  25. #25
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    When I get a chance to dress its not a sexual thing for me its who I am. I have to keep my mannerisms in check too. Actually I am more interested in female things than male activities. At times I wish that I was born female

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