He seen a She/he.

[Maria 60]

On Sunday my wifes friend from work was in the area and dropped in, I meet her a few times but meet her husband for the first time. Well we didn't hit it off the bat, and it didn't get any better. He told me that we had to excuse him that he just had a horrific experience. I asked him what happened and he said they were in a furniture store and they seen a She/he. I said oh you seen a crossdresser, he answered no that was a transvestite, a crossdresser dresses in private and is usally married and a normal male who dresses for recreation. I told him that he seems to know alot about the subject. He went on telling us that from a distance he seen a tall blonde and because of her height it got his attention, but the closer she was getting he started to realize something was wrong and when she/he got close the five o'clock shadow was showing and it creeped him out and when she/he walked bye he just froze. He said he has been to bars and clubs and seen transvestites that look passable but this guy was just creepy. He asked my wife if that would freak her out, my wife said that she has seen many crossdressers and they never bothered her, they didn't try to steel from her or sell her anything, or try to change her religion, they just go upon there business and she goes on with hers. My only comment was I really don't have an opinion because I enjoy seeing people living there lives the way they want and I don't believe that what you call she/he didn't do anything wrong and was just going upon her business. He didn't seem to care to much what we were thinking because he just repeated that it creeped him out. Some people are like race horses with the eye covers, they only see straight and don't look around. Let's just say we didn't hit it off off to begin with and it didn't get any better after that conversation. After they left my wife said to me, not to let people like that discourage me,you just can't change some people and me and my community are moving forward but have a long road ahead. What a jackass he was, I guess we know who won't be over for BBQ, ever.

[Piora]

So many people cannot tolerate anyone who presents as different from the "norm". They think anyone who doesn't fit into their neat little Slot A or Slot B is suspect. They have no tolerance or understanding of our world, and since most of us fit into neither A nor B, then there's something wrong with us mentally. We're not "normal" by their definition, and deserve to be treated with disdain and suspicion.

[junetv]

For someone "freaked out" he seems to "know" {sarcasm} a lot about the subject. I suspect he enjoys it, but doesn't know how to have a conversation about it.

[Robin414]

Ya know what, I kinda get it (and I'm sooo on our team, let's make that perfectly clear).

Muggles often don't 'get' us for a myriad of reasons way beyond the scope of this thread...it comes down to polite conversation and light debate on the topic.

Let's just say I and two of my raging testosterone 'buddies' had an enlightening conversation with a GG friend pertaining to some of her wonderful fluid friends when I was 17 (well before the pink fog made me realize) and all three of us 'ass holes' walked away with our heads hung low realizing 'the muggles got it all wrong'!

Don't exclude him Maria, look at it as as opportunity to enlighten him! If one GG can genuinely enlighten three raging 17 yr old drunk bulls?

[Sometimes Steffi]

What I think is funny is that some muggles think we have a "mental disease" because we won't or can't change to the binary.

He obviously can't change to accept the non-binary. Maybe he is the one who has a mental disease.

[sometimes_miss]

So many people cannot tolerate anyone who presents as different from the "norm".

They're usually not all that intelligent. Sometimes knowledgeable, having spent a lot of time in schools memorizing things, but still not intelligent. All their lives, they've relied on other people to tell them how to live, what's important, what's not, who to hate, who to like. When you throw something into their lives that they haven't been told how to deal with, they can easily freeze up because they can't figure out what to do. Then of course they ask their also dumb friends, and you wind up with two more idiots who hate what they don't understand.

[ReineD]

My story doesn't quite compare but there's an analogy because it is also something that we are not exposed to on a regular basis: the first time I saw same-sex sex was a lesbian couple in a movie. I had a negative gut reaction to it. I never would have translated this to condemning someone for being lesbian or not being friends with a lesbian, in fact I do have friends who are lesbian, gay men, TS, CD, etc, but I just had a private "Ewwww" moment when I saw two women being sexual together.

Where does this come from. Why do some people have "Ewww" moments when they see spiders or any other thing that causes either fear or disgust, yet others are fine with these things. People have ranges of tolerance to different things (it's complex), and a lot of it may well be caused by lack of exposure. If I shared a home with a lesbian couple, I'm sure that eventually I'd become inured to seeing them be physically affectionate.

So likely this man simply has not been exposed. Does this mean that he would harm a CDer by being rude or physically abusive to them? If he had a son who ended up being a CDer or gay, would he not eventually come to terms with it?

If he was only describing his initial reaction without saying things like "these people should be wiped off the face of the earth", then I think he should be allowed to react privately the way he did, with trust that with more exposure, the reaction will lose severity. But if he expressed violent intentions against CDers in general, then he needs condemnation for not being able to live and let live.

[Lena]

I'm with Robin on this one. The first time I saw a Crossdresser was in an airport. I didn't know what to think.

We've seen wife reactions on this board. They run the gambit from support to disgust.

With the current media storm and politicians promoting fear and distrust, the reaction isn't a surprise. Just be thankful he saw her in the showroom instead of the bathroom.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Though he got a bit confused about the definitions, the fact he knew there existed "hetero dressers who only dress at home" might indicate he has done some research on the subject, for whatever reason.

[ReineD]

No Vickie. People develop all sorts of nebulous definitions, just based on general exposure from occasional stories in the media and stories they may have heard here and there throughout their lives.

[franlee]

This makes me think of how there is no wrong in how someone feels. It is what it is and to ask for my feelings to be respected over your is Wrong, not the feelings. He was within his natural rights to feel and express his thoughts, especially in this incident, he was asked what had caused his mood. People remember I have no more rights than the next person in line and to demand such is Wrong. That seem to be the stumbling block for so many people and special interest groups that demands more rights, they already have them they just want it to be Law or Mandatory for everyone to accept their right to demand you like it or at least act like it is the Norm. Think of it this way if I want to run around in public in a Batman suit or Wedding Gown I'm gon'a draw attention and very little of it will be positive but it's my right! Just as it's your right not to like it and feel it inappropriate, but if I am tuff enough to stand up for my right it doesn't makes any difference what you like as long as I don't infringe on yours or create a Public Hazard or break any laws.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Maia , Yo just can't fix STUPID !

[Sandyhappygirl]

Maria,

Do you think they had actually just seen the he/she they referred to or could it be that they suspect some crossdressing may go on in your house and wanted to test your reaction to a made up story in order to confirm their suspicions? A possibility no?

Sandy x

[CarlaWestin]

Anymore, I just let backwards thinking people remain in reverse gear. Like the whole restroom thing. It only seems to enflame really stupid people.

[Meghan4now]

Maria,

If this guy is a nice guy otherwise, I wouldn't shun him. What I read into the story is that he understands that there is a spectrum of gender nonconforming people, and he wasn't entirely opposed to that. His response in this case was a little rough, but I have to admit that well in the past, when I've seen CDS with serious shadow, other obvious male/female incongruities, and what I perceived as being "dirty", it creeped me out too.

I will admit that even now, I have a better opinion of CDS (and pretty much anyone else), when they seem clean and appropriately dressed. Is that fair? Maybe not, but it is a visceral response that I then have put into perspective and then proceed to treat the person with dignity and respect. I think this guy may just need some positive encouragement.

[Kim_Bitzflick]

Did you say BBQ???? Tell me when & I'll be there!

I agree with your wife, You can lead a horse to water but you can't make she/he drink!

[Sarah Louise]

My initial reaction on reading your post was he sounds like the Colonel Fitts character from American Beauty who is very hostile to gays only to be in denial of his own homosexuality. With this guy, swap gay for cross dresser. But then again, I wasn't there so who knows?

[ChristinaK]

We can't always control our reactions to something way out of the ordinary. The first time I saw a CDer she was coming out of the ladies room with a long line waiting to go in at a truck stop.

My initial reaction was surprise and a little disgust. About a second later I realized that could be me! In fact, I have since used that same ladies room. I was ashamed of my reaction, but I had no control of it initially.

If I were not a fellow CDer, I might have been shaken up substantially more. Remember that we represent less than 1% of the population by some studies, so when people recognize us it has a definite impact. Who are we to judge them harshly for having a genuine reaction to something that is objectionable to most people?

I wish so bad that was not the case, but I'm not sure we will ever be as accepted as LGB's.

[ReineD]

We need a lot better education about non-binary people in early education. I know that this group of people represents only a small minority of the population, but so do handicapped people. For most of the 20th century and before, no allowances were made for handicapped access and they were shunned. I even remember my mother telling me to NOT use the wider stall reserved for handicapped people (the first time I had seen one), because she genuinely thought that whatever had made them handicapped was transmittable and I could catch it.

And now, no stigma remains. We need to do the same with instructing kids that there are people who don't quite fit in a traditional male or female box, and it is OK.

[Ressie]

This is kind of a matter of seeing something that he hasn't seen before. Something incongruous, unexpected, and (to him) disgusting. I would have had a ewww reaction myself to seeing a seemingly attractive woman with 5 o'clock shadow. Of course, I would be understanding about it since I'm a CD.

Not long ago I know I had a puzzled look on my face when my CDing friend took an electric shaver out of her purse and started shaving! Just something that I've never seen done before - something the brain tries to put together.

[LelaK]

CDs I used to see on talk shows, like the Maury Povich show etc, used to seem unattractive to me for the most part. Maybe that's what the guy meant. The CD was unattractive to him.

I don't see a problem with allowing everyone to have their own choice about what they consider attractive and unattractive.

If we want an atmosphere of honesty, then we should be tolerant of anyone admitting when they're grossed out. Shouldn't we?

[Teresa]

Maria,
I can't help feeling the guy has a hidden agenda about CDers, maybe he's struggling with something inside and seeing one just stirred it all up for him, as you say he appeared to know a great deal about it.
I guess we're back to the presentation thing again in some ways, Did the CDer make a mistake not interacting more with the people around her, maybe smiling and saying a quiet good morning, it goes a long way to break down the barrier. Also I've come back to this subject again of putting over a confusing message if you can see a beard shadow or even a full beard, a vast majority of people would say WTF is going on here, what does is this person trying to portray ?

I will add that that there is another side to this, many years ago in a car showroom, a girl from the office came to check with a salesman some details on a car, she was slim dressed nicely but had a full beard, I guess the obvious conclusion was she had a severe hormone imbalance , I didn't think WTF but more I felt sorry for her, without the facial hair she would have been a very attractive girl .

[Robin414]

We need a lot better education about non-binary people in early education. I know that this group of people represents only a small minority of the population, but so do handicapped people. For most of the 20th century and before, no allowances were made for handicapped access and they were shunned. I even remember my mother telling me to NOT use the wider stall reserved for handicapped people (the first time I had seen one), because she genuinely thought that whatever had made them handicapped was transmittable and I could catch it.

And now, no stigma remains. We need to do the same with instructing kids that there are people who don't quite fit in a traditional male or female box, and it is OK.

OK, that makes so mutch sense it's like (OK, I don't have an analogy) 😐

I remember when I was in Jr. high school we had a compulsory 'sex ed' class where we talked about...the birds and the bees...but the topic of gender identity was never raised...it should have been!

Anyone here with influence in K-12 education!?

[ReineD]

Anyone here with influence in K-12 education!?

But yet again, there are roadblocks with some conservative elements in this country. These groups of people home-school their kids or they have their own private schools and universities because they disagree with the "brainwashing" conducted in public schools that teach things like evolution (vs creationism), the science of climate change, sexual diversity, etc. My SO is in education and I come from Canada, so I was gobsmacked when he told me. And then I began noticing these schools as we traveled around. There is an isolated culture of people who want their children to learn specific things that agree with their own beliefs. So in some states, parents have a big say into what gets taught in public schools, and tolerance for LGBT (among other topics) would not be accepted. We don't have national learning standards in the US and attempts to establish national standards are strongly opposed in some states. It is difficult for people who live in the more progressive states to fathom this.

On the one hand, the US is a powerful, progressive country but on the other it has a strong element of people who resist certain ideas. I like to think that the number of people who hold on to the narrow views is reducing (although the recent proliferation of political wedge issues is not helping), and certainly I think that social media is helping with that because kids are exposed to things outside of their families and schools. But I'm afraid it will be a while before a more progressive curriculum can be introduced in those schools, or in public schools in those states. Yet these are precisely the people who need to be taught about the gender and sexual spectrum. People in the more progressive states don't tend to have issues with LGBT, abortion, etc.

[leannejacobs]

It's very difficult to respond to seeing a CDer in public, I was sitting in the car at a supermarket with my wife's best friends husband when a CDer and an other elderly gentleman got out of the car opposite us, this CDer was by no means passable, cheap wig, yellow summery very short dress and black stockings of which the tops were completely visible, a cream cardigan, cream shoes and hand bag, the complete outfit was terrible and she stood out like a sore thumb, my friend and I looked on as she boldly walked into the supermarket, we both commented on the poor presentation but I was pleased to see he never had any negative comments about the lifestyle.

He has no idea about my dressing though his wife does, my wife needed someone to talk to, she's very open minded and has been fine, her husband, the friend in the car doesn't know as the observation was before my wife outed me to her friend, he might know now though I hope she managed to keep my secret.