Because it is easy?
I'm all in for the gay/bi/trans confuseatron.
We center to our own interests.
- MM
Because it is easy?
I'm all in for the gay/bi/trans confuseatron.
We center to our own interests.
- MM
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
Becky, it is all virtual reality anyway, my analogy, but the point being is that you are not a cisgender person, nor will you ever be. You had to get on that elevator in order to transition. Maybe you or others never stopped on the other floors. Some don't, I get that. But still, you, or they had to make many modifications in order to be who you really are internally. Or I suppose you can make none at all... There are some who don't make any modifications, not HRT, or surgery of any kind and just live as a woman socially. That is a choice they make, but they have xy chromosomes. For most who are TS and to physically transition, HRT must continue due to the xy chromosome. Like a recovering alcoholic. Once an alcoholic, you are always an alcoholic, regardless if you are drinking or not. Some may choose a lifelong recovery through AA, others do not, but they are always an alcoholic.
This thought of well, I have transitioned, so TG doesn't apply to me anymore is false IMO. You can successfully transition to match your internal identity, and live totally as a woman in all aspects, and be considered as one, but you are still and always TG.
Last edited by Tina_gm; 05-14-2016 at 10:29 AM.
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
I always think along the lines of people as flavours...!
Some of us are sweet to taste and very nice, while some of us are very bitter and sour so I just spit those ones back out...
I like the sweet ones, there the best ones
Kate D
Last edited by KittyD; 05-14-2016 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Spelling
I seem to have started something here. Some good discussion and thanks to all who have contributed.
I would like to add one point of clarification. Toleration does not mean that we suppress our own opinions. I am glad of the wide variety of opinions expressed here. However in expressing our opinions I make a plea for gentleness.
In Texas at the moment there is a raging debate over transgender schoolchildren being able to use the bathroom of the gender they feel they belong to. Reading the comments of those opposed one could mistakenly believe that the end of the world as we know it is at hand and using a restroom risks a violent sexual assault. Forgotten in all this are the needs of a tiny minority of harmless children who are desperately trying to understand themselves and survive against the climate of bullying and distrust.
the idea of 'tolerance' is insipidly hypocritical.
Who the heck are you to 'tolerate' me?
dripping condescension..
Becky what is wrong with being strong willed?
I never went out of my way to be mean in the TS forum I had honest questions and out of nowhere I was slammed hard by a whole gaggle of you girls.
I backed out and thought holy crap I'm not wanted here and if this is what transition is like no thanks.Constant back biting each other I saw as well.
Not sure if HRT causes that or you think thats normal female behavior so you all do it I don't know.
I looked to you girls for info and wanted to get to know some of you so I could understand more about how you get thru it all. I got treated like I didn't belong to the "club"
and y'all didn't want me in the "club".
Still to this day that has been a huge factor for me not pursuing transition.
Gendermutt, Your analogy is excellent ! Shows our situations, as different floors exactly, as i see it. i wonder if your building is one of Trump Towers? Maybe he came up with the analogy originally!?LOL
Last edited by Alice Torn; 05-14-2016 at 11:07 PM.
Would love to know what questions you have asked, you have never started a thread in the TS forum, with the exception of two in TS body issues, which would, under todays rules, be deleted as they are not TS body issues.Originally Posted by Tracii G
The TS forum is harsh in its dealings, but if you think that area is mean, then wait while you start to live in a world populated by cis people who will not see you as a woman p
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
Nigella, is it a marine boot camp type of mindset? Because what is out there which is so tough that you are putting each other through some ringer, some trial by fire kinda thing? I am left wondering that maybe there are a lot of TG people who are just not sure where they stand, and when they look into the possibility of TS and see all of the harshness, the negativity, that maybe they turn away from that as it looks so cold and unappealing. Someone could possibly think, on their own discovery, that they seem to relate to being TS, but when they see the forums for TS, they think, no thanks, that's just too much misery for me. They possibly see transition as not a better alternative, even though for them it really is. They are just being presented with misery no matter where they turn....
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
Tolerance? My goodness, The TS and TG are trying to find intolerance in this thread, Hey we are all in the same boat on planet Earth. We are spirits in a physical body. We should all have tolerance for each other. The TS thinks they have gone through fire to get where they are and come down on us in the middle of the TG group as though we are lying abut what we are. But how much fire have we all gone though. If you have not walked in our shoes, why do you have intolerance for us. You are the same as us and we do need to support each other. Goodness, does estrogen do that to you? Why are we so different? I think we could all sit down and have a beer together and get along just fine. Nobody is any better than anybody else. So lets find tolerance in each other.
Part Time Girl
Krististeph,
It's hardly what the OP is saying, if we all had that attitude it really would be a crappy World, we all have to exercise tolerance everyday of the week.
Do you drive a car with that kind of thinking ?
Gendermutt,
I'm not sure if I go along with the elevator idea but one thing you forgot is at what level does the pink fog start ?
I may be inclined to agree with Becky, we may all like to be on the ground floor in the large lobby but with total acceptance of where we are on the TG spectrum ! Accepting we live on different levels is only going to segregate us, when most of us really want to integrate and pass .
GM
The TS forum has its highs and lows, my transition was one of the easiest known on that forum, but most of what members like me have to share is lost in what the majority of TSs have to deal with.
I'm sorry if people cannot stand harsh WORDS which can be read in so many ways and more often than not, not the way they were intended. Heck you can read a post after a hard day, full of stress and read one thing into it, then maybe next day, after a relaxing night, maybe a few beers, read the same post and read it totally different.
In real life, those harsh words can and do manifest themselves into harsh knocks, you only have to look at the current legislation being passed in some of the states. IF a member believes they are TS, lets face it who are we to say they are not, then they get REAL LIFE experience shared by those who have gone before, more often than not this is in a negative way as that is the predominant experience.
Do you think we would be doing anyone a favour saying, Yea Girl, go for it, its a doddle this transitioning thing. Sorry, but none of us believe that.
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
GM: I think your analogy is a bit flawed. As Becky pointed out, we're not on "top" of anything.
To modify it slightly, there are a couple of big apartment buildings in our neighborhood, and there are people living in all of them. There's a building full of men - non-CDs on the west side, and CDs on the east side.
Similarly, there's a building full of women. TS women live on the bottom floors of that building. Sometimes a few residents on the upper floors complain and we end up in the basement for a bit.
In between those two buildings are a bunch of single family homes, each decorated uniquely.
Most of the people from the CD portion of the men's building shop at the same stores as the residents of the women's building. Some of them belong to the same book club.
Very occasionally, somebody finds out they've been living in the wrong building and moves. It's a giant pain in the ass though, because there are no moving trucks, and you have to carry everything by hand. Between that and getting your address changed everywhere, moving takes years and years.
So I don't think we're better, and we're certainly not better off. We're rather different though. If we want to hang out and talk about the things we have in common, it's important to acknowledge those differences, and to not assume that we see the same things in at all the same way.
Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.
Sheesh- I give you gals the penthouse suite, with the best views and you are still not happy, if that doesn't prove you really are women, I don't know what does.
My analogy is a virtual reality, not a physical segregation, perhaps I should have stated this. It is all about where we are in relation to our internal gender identity. Not that we would or should physically live apart and not mingle with each other.
Teresa, the pink fog makes you get in the elevator and push the up button over and over, When it wears off, you suddenly realize how high you are and then get back in the elevator and push the down button over and over lol.
Nigella, I really am just asking as to the why of the atmosphere. If that is really the best way to deal with the reality of being TS then so be it. Perhaps there does need to be the strongest of realities for the most difficult of journey's. I just can't help thinking though, that the doom and gloom that seems so apparent along with a not very friendly atmosphere for guests really is more of a repellent than it needs to be.
I have stated before, I get frustrated being male. But when reading TS forums, I don't see my life getting any better. I just see it becoming all the more difficult. Reading so much misery, I wonder sometimes why anyone would make the choice to transition. I don't get it, and maybe that's the point I guess. You have to get it to make the choice?
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
I've beenfor 10 years and never picked a any one way of who dresses to what extent. I dress full on most of the time and would tell someone just under dressing is not cressdressing. Or to tell someone full on dressing is over the top. Why do some think there thoughts are the only way to do things. I've seen this all my life. What ever one likes to do is good and if someone thinks it's not then that person can take a walk in my MHO.
Angie
GM that's the point. Transitioning can literally destroy everything you know, losing family and job is unfortunately common.
It's not fun and if it's really not for you then the strong warnings will save you from making a terrible mistake, if you are determined and truly TS you will stick it out in the TS forum and find your place.
At least one person has said going to the TS section put them off transition, really? A few strong opinions on an internet forum stopped you from making a life changing decision?
Then you aren't ready and hopefully you have been saved from making a mistake, because honestly if you think a few opinionated posters are scary that's nothing to the brutality of living full-time.
You simply won't get cheerleading on the TS forum and that's because transition is very serious, it does no-one any favours.
Once someone proves they are beyond ideals and fantasy and ready to take it serious you will find they are accepted. Is it a clique or a group of individuals who understand just what it takes?
Btw I'm assuming people know that TS is different to Transition?
GM I genuinely find alot of your posts interesting and I like how you question and explore things, but as you said when it comes to TS you don't get it.
Look I don't get why a hetero masculine male wants to underdress in panties, but I accept it and I don't think I have ever knocked it because I see nothing wrong, all I say is that I have nothing in common with that person and typically the underdresser doesn't see a connection with being TS.
We can get along but agree we are completely different.
Yet you seem determined to put us all in the same box and that's when it all gets contentious.
Can't we embrace our differences and still get along?
That is the closest thing to the truth of it that I've ever seen written here.
When you "get it", it also doesn't really seem like much of a choice. I could describe most of what I think people are referring to when they say we "jump all over everybody that comes into the TS forum" as, "we don't spare words with people who visibly don't get it".
Incidentally, I also think the underlying idea behind your statement applies more broadly than just to transition.
Last edited by Zooey; 05-14-2016 at 03:21 PM.
Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.
Maybe some body is borderline and wanting info like I was and truly wanting to "get it" and got treated like I was stupid for even asking the question.
That sucks and it still sucks to this day.
Nigella if the TS section is harsh then why is being harsh not OK everywhere else on the site?
I'm not wanted in the TS section I understand that because if I make a comment you always delete it. I get it I'll just stay out and let you be mean to someone else.
Your comment you made in regard to REAL life and predominant experiences of those that have gone on before is where the elitist attitude is and that is why people get so put off by you. You think you ladies would try and help others not run them off.
I really hate to feel this way and know I should be more understanding and tolerant but I'm not the only one that sees it this way so maybe its you and not me that is intolerant.
Last edited by Tracii G; 05-14-2016 at 04:24 PM.
I can't find any of those questions by searching, so I have no idea what you asked. Regardless... If you're "wanting to get it", you don't get it. It's like breathing, and I don't believe that the most fundamental aspects of it are learnable or manufacturable. I'm not talking about facts or information or knowledge here. I'm talking about a state of being.
People who don't get it have come in and asked questions without projecting or asserting before, and I've seen perfectly fine discussions with constructive answers happen.
When people who don't get it come in and start trying to debate us into accepting that they do in fact get it, things get contentious. That happens. Sometimes it's a one-off thing, other times it's a persistent thing as somebody feels determined to be in there and make some kind of point.
Judging by recent activity (including this thread), I'm not sure what gives you the impression that being "harsh" (I would say "direct") is disallowed outside of the TS forum.
Edited to add: This feels highly relevant.
Last edited by Zooey; 05-14-2016 at 04:38 PM.
Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.
This was so long ago and I'm sure I deleted my comment or it got tucked away somewhere and I'm sure you all are frantically trying to find it and I wish I could help.
Very well could have been a lurker and not a contributing member at the time who knows.
I really don't want this to escalate and get ugly because that helps nobody.
I said my piece as did others of how we feel and I will leave it there and move on.
Zooey ask jenniferathome how it feels to get slapped for being direct and honest other places on this site.
She is just one person I know of that caught hell for being honest.
Last edited by Tracii G; 05-14-2016 at 05:12 PM.
Becky, and Zooey, thank you for the compliments you gave me. Although I am not certain as to what box I am putting anyone in. While "I don't get it" lol, (video) I do get that being TS and transition is not one in the same. Transition is an action. It is a choice, even for those who say transition or die, as death would be the other choice. Personally I myself would opt for life.
I can only say for me, that this TG stuff is confusing as all hell to me. It made me consider transitioning. For me, it seemed like a path that would cause more difficulties then what life is now. As for the TS and not transition.... If I were to go to the TS forum and proclaim that I am TS, I am one of you, I am a woman inside.... BUT.... I am going to continue living as a man because wifey won't stay with me, kids won't talk to me if I do, and all of the other hardships that are likely to fall my way, then I would be called out as a fraud, or that I do not get it and shouldn't be there. (this is just a hypothetical btw) so you guys do seem to need quite a bit of proof by action in order to consider someone TS. Not necessarily a full transition, but definitely more than just saying so. Not that I would blame you, I would too.
There is a general feeling though from those who wander in to see what TS is all about, because there are some of us, a lot of us actually, that are caught in some weird in between world. Not just a dude in a dress. We don't really know exactly where we are going with this, what it all means. We do not identify as cis males, that is for certain. But, it is like you guys are putting up some pretty crazy obstacle course to pass in order to gain entrance, then I guess that does make sense. If you are TS and you want it bad enough, you will find a way to make it through the course..... if you can't, well then you shouldn't be there. I guess I get that. I get that I don't get it lol. I would only say that of the many lost souls, the way you guys make transition sound so daunting, it really can make someone think there is no choice in life that will ever make them happy. It will be misery transitioning or not transitioning. It will be misery just to join the ranks of TS. That is how it appears to those on the outside, wanting to look in because they are a little lost and are looking for a little direction.
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
GM prepare for the worst and hope for the best
But best to strip away any delusions first because if it does blow up in your face you know what to expect, if it works out well and all is happy most of us will be delighted for you.
Becky, that is pretty much the recipe for life in general lol. I would like to know how I am making you feel that I am putting you all in a box. I can assure you that I do not feel this way, and that it is not intentional. Perhaps poor choice of wording... feel free to pm me if it if you prefer.
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
I can't think of a single active TS poster in the TS forum who isn't happier for having transitioned. If you read often and deeply enough, you'll usually find this caveat sprinkled in amongst the hard stuff.
It's been extremely difficult for all of us, even those of us who have had it "easy" (including me), and new challenges pop up all the time. Some come from within, some from without. Transition is the saddest, hardest, most miserable thing I've ever done. I put my partner before transition through a lot of pain and anguish. I deeply wounded my relationship with my parents, but especially my mom (fortunately it's recovering, albeit slowly). I took away all of my previous "safe places". I lost some friends (made new ones too). I made my love life about 1,000,000 times more difficult.
It's also been - without question - the absolute best and most rewarding thing I've ever done. I honestly can't remember the last time I had really genuinely smiled before transition. For all the misery and pain, I am so much happier now.
If we make it sound miserable, that's because it is miserable in a lot of ways. If it's what you need to do in order to truly be yourself though, then the fact that it's miserable isn't so much of a brick wall as it is a speed bump. We don't cheer people onward into transition, but we do generally celebrate progress once you're on the path.
Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.
If that was me, although I do think that bathrooms designated for females should only be used by people who identify as female (although if there's no one in them then it's OK), I didn't use the word "qualified".
My point was, when someone identifies as male or gender-fluid/gender-neutral, why would they want to use a space that is designated for females, rather than use gender-neutral/single-user spaces.
But back to the topic - I really don't want to turn this into a bathroom thread, although I do want to address a specific example of someone who believes they were treated badly - I'm sorry if you found my opinion bullying or mean. I did not intend to disparage you in any way, by pointing out something that seems logical to me.
Reine
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