bathrooms: just what goes on in there anyway?

[Krististeph]

What ever happened to the mixed-gender bathrooms of the Ali McBeal show?

In the 1980s we shared a bathroom in the 18th floor of the playboy building- knock and ask if it was currently occupied by buys or girls.

Several times some of the younger girls (artists) would come in when it was 'boys'.

Hey- as long as there are working stalls, and a modicum of privacy, so what?

We both do #1 and #2 essentially the same, (yeah yeah, peeing is physically different but not as much so when sitting).

Perhaps bathrooms stalls should simply be made more private.

When you come down to it- it is a matter of not exposing your privates to others. I don't want to expose mine to other people, regardless of gender. And people have no problem sharing a single bathroom.

I think the idea of public bathrooms is the problem. what kind of psycho thinks it is a good idea to have a bunch of guys whip their penises out in front of each other? It is a pretty freaking weird idea when you think about it.

I'm bringing this up yet again- because I do not think the problem is totally about gender- but about personal modesty.

What if your social mores say don't expose yourself to anyone? Single bathrooms. Done and dusted.

I think it is very important to note that there THERE IS VERY LITTLE CONCERN ABOUT GENDERS SHARING A SINGLE BATHROOM AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

Since this is evident, the problem is when we as society force people to go to the bathroom as a group. That's the real problem.

[Allisa]

I can recall peeing in a trough at the ball park, now almost all urinals have a splash shield between them. As far as exposing yourself to others, I had to shower with all the other boys after P.E. in school on a daily basis, there were no single stalls, at least not back then, and if you did not "measure up" to teenage male standards for "size" you were open for ridicule from both genders.

[Meghan4now]

I've heard in some European countries, there are mixed bathrooms, that have stalls across from each other with no doors. Not advocating that, but it makes me realize how uptight we Americans can be!

[paulaprimo]

with all of the problems in the world i can't believe the uproar about bathrooms.
they say more boys get molested in the men's room, so for a safety issue it
might be safer if we all used the same bathroom as there would be more activity.
i agree we Americans are modest and far behind the Europeans.
there's only 2 reasons why i use the bathroom:
#1, #1
#2, #2

[Chelsea B]

Meghan, agreed on European bathrooms. I used to travel to Amsterdam quite often, among others. At the convention center there it was quite common to walk into the large men's room and find female custodians tidying up, not in any hurry to finish. Nobody bats an eye. Here in the States, that restroom would be barricaded until they finished. There are many more example of how uptight we Americans are in comparison.

[Barbara Jo]

Let's face it..... TSs are just another "bogeyman" that some are telling the general public that we all have to fear.

It is no different than voter fraud in that it's a non issue that some are using purely for political gain.

[Pat]

One of the technology companies (maybe Google?) tried going to an all-gender bathroom -- it was all stalls, no urinals. After a few months half the stalls got labeled "women only" because men prefer to stand to pee and -- let's be honest -- they're not sharp-shooters, if you know what I mean. The women complained that they needed a clean place to sit and pee. So if we want to have universal bathrooms we either need to teach men to sit or we need full-time cleaning crews.

[Rachelakld]

I was in the mens, somewhere near Paris.
Girls toilets had a big queue
Pretty young woman walks past the urinals
and takes up a cubical

No big deal, but didn't like her big dog being near the urinals

[Krystenw]

The last time I was in Japan, The bathrooms were all Co-ed.

[Gillian Gigs]

From what I am hearing from my red-neck friends, they are afraid of their daughters having to issues with perverts. I wonder if they are as concerned with their sons and perverts! Most North Americans are prudes and those who attempt to prove otherwise go to the opposite extreme, which is as bad! There is a middle ground, dare I say the "c" word, compromise, which means that no one gets what they want, but everyone has to find a middle ground. In the middle ground no one is happy, but happiness is only a fleeting moment!

[Lorileah]

. After a few months half the stalls got labeled "women only" because men prefer to stand to pee and -- let's be honest -- they're not sharp-shooters, if you know what I mean.

Sorry, calling BS on that. I see more "misses" in the women's room on the seats because some women "Hover" Honestly, both genders have issues. So the whole seat argument is a fallacy. It comes down to, again, personal politeness. (One women's room on the interstate about mad me barf with all the urine on the seat and floor)

[Leslie Langford]

...the problem is when we as society force people to go to the bathroom as a group. That's the real problem.

Aye, and there's the rub...for most GG's, going to a public restroom is a communal event, especially when they are in groups. It is a time/place not only to relieve themselves but also to fix their hair, make up, and clothes, catch up on the latest gossip, talk about the other people left behind at the restaurant table, check their messages and Facebook status, phone a friend for advice if their date happens to be going badly, as well as for any other social matter related event. Men go to the restroom for one purpose and one purpose only, and unlike GG's, the only time a man will ask another man if he wants to accompany him to the restroom is if they happen to be in a gay bar ).

Heck, I've even seen GG's take group selfies to text message to their friends from a public restroom. Who DOES that??? Teenage girls, that's who...

So yes, I think that for many GG's a restroom is more than a place to simply relieve themselves. It is a social meeting place and even a sanctuary in some instances, and that is perhaps why they get so freaked out at the prospect of genetic males - even transgender ones - gaining access to what they consider their rightful "private" space.

Funny how that concept didn't seem to matter years ago when women sports reporters demanded - and ultimately received - permission to enter male players' locker and shower rooms to conduct post-game interviews...

[Alaina R]

Although I usually come down on the progressive side politically, I'm not sure what to make of this latest bathroom cause celebre. Maybe I just don't understand the issue well.
When it comes to bathroom use, I'm especially scratching my head over the definition of transgender. Isn't that mostly a self-defined term? Who decides if a person is transgender? Example, if the men's urinal is broken, can I say I feel like a girl today and go into the women's restroom, no matter how I'm dressed, or do I have to be dressed appropriately? If it is dependent on dress, a lot of women wear jeans and tee shirts so does that count? Obviously I'm being somewhat facetious but my point is that I'm not sure this has been thought through very well. I know that if I was a woman who valued being able to use a public bathroom without having men also using it, I might be pissed off. If a person has transitioned or is in process, I have no problem with switching bathrooms but most of the people we are talking about are still sporting their original parts. I know my wife has told me that when we have been to crossdressing events she doesn't like to use the bathroom because it is full of guys. Maybe it is just because I'm old fashioned in some ways, but I'm just not comfortable with how this change is being implemented.

[Tonya Rose]

Ok, here is a common sense answer to the whole bathroom thing... Dont we all share a bathroom with our SO. and our kids ???And we rearly even shut the door ... in our house..??? can`t everyone just get along and get their buisness done in peace?As parents we took our young children in the bathroom we were comfortable in. RIGHT No matter their sex...A dude in a dress in the mens room is gonna catch hell as is a chic in the mens room. pee as you present!!!!!! All will be fine... JMHO!

[Stephanie47]

The people I know, who tend to be conservative are really more concerned with locker rooms which have not been adapted for co-ed use. For them it is a modesty issue. They do not feel their young kids, especially girls, should be viewing the developed genitals of the opposite sex. In my opinion the underlying issue is many of these protestors absolutely do not like gays, lesbians and any transgender men and women. I base my opinion on unsolicited testimony of friends and acquaintances who have no idea what the subject is about and think they do not associate with any. Surprise!

[Christie ann]

You know I have been in plenty of public pool locker rooms where a dad takes his daughters into the men's room and my wife has seen her share of boys with their moms in the women's room. These kids are all wide eyed and staring but no pitchforks come out and the police are not called. These new bathroom policies are just someone's attempt to legislate a non problem about people who are different from themselves. Diversity in the gene pool is good but not in public pool.

[Kate Simmons]

I often wondered what went on in there myself. Especially since I was a part time custodian at a grocery store after I retired and part of my job was to clean both the mens and ladies rooms. Guess what? They were equally bad when it came to cleanness. I could fill a book with what I found in those little flap containers in the ladies room stalls. Nothing surprises me any more.

[Michala]

I agree with "What is the big deal?" Well, I don't think the bathroom is the big deal. It's more of let's write a law that will cover every possible instance for the transgendered and bathrooms just happen to be in that category. I's more than any one thing. Women's bathrooms? Probably not much to see unless you're obviously trying to get a peek and then it should fall into the category of a peeping tom. Locker rooms? Probably more of an issue. Not sure that young girls need to see a GM walking around displaying his male (and possibly fully operational) genitals.
And now our POTUS is threatening fiscal sanctions against schools who do not allow such a thing. Really? Don't all students have some rights to privacy, not just the transgendered? I'm beginning to think the biggest problem in this country is the lack of common sense and decency. I'm sure if I had a son or daughter who was transgendered I would still love them and want what was best for them but I don't see myself forcing those beliefs onto all the other students. Perhaps with some guidance and useful information other students would see that just because there is a difference that doesn't mean there is something wrong with such a person. Look at how far we have come with Down's Syndrome people. Used to be put away in a home just to survive and they complete school, receive training, hold jobs and get married in many instances.
Tolerance is a 2-way street, we have to tolerant of others who have different ideas as do they to us.

[Zooey]

I am a woman, and in particular, a trans woman. I've got an F on every piece of legal identification I can. My birth certificate is the last one, and requires surgery because of the state I was born in.

Disclaimer: I am speaking only for myself here.

Personally, I just want my legal/medical identity to be respected consistently. That includes locker rooms and other gender/sex-segregated spaces.

When it comes to folks like CDs, at least to me, it's more complicated. I don't particularly want men in women's spaces, regardless of what they're wearing. That said, I have no problem with CDs being in there, because statistically it's just not an issue, and they have safety concerns. My personal belief is that CDs should feel okay with going into the womens room for safety reasons, but I don't believe we need to legislate the right for them to be in there. It should not be a punishable crime, but if asked to leave over a dispute, I don't think it's unreasonable to leave.

The tricky thing here is what constitutes a "sincerely held gender identity", which is language that gets used a lot. For trans men and women who transition, IMO there's very little room to question, especially with legal identity changes. In the other cases, I personally do wish we had some kind of standard, because it would shut a lot of nasty people up. That said, I'm not certain it's possible to define a standard that's actually enforceable, other than "what's on your legal ID", so here we are.

I don't love the fact that my choices appear to be "bathroom free-for-all" and "legislated bigotry that denies men and women access to the correct spaces". If anybody offered me the chance to vote for "guaranteed access is based on federal identification, and using the 'wrong' bathroom is a non-punishable/non-convictable offense in case of dispute", I would do so in a heartbeat. You would then find me advocating FIERCELY for removing (or substantially easing) the monetary roadblocks that can keep some people unable to make those legal changes.

[Pat]

And now our POTUS is threatening fiscal sanctions against schools who do not allow such a thing.

I don't believe the law requires people to flaunt their genitalia. There's no reason why locker rooms can't be made to give privacy to all. Even without transgender people communal changing rooms and showers are a problem for people -- I know it freaked me out in high school and even now at some gyms.

If the problem is modesty, fix that. If the problem is perverts, fix that. But banning transgender folk doesn't fix anything.

[Sallee]

Yea its a pretty stupid discussion but it does take the mind off the important issues of the day. I wonder where trans people went 1 yr ago I guess no one noticed. They were to busy peeing

[Barbara Jo]

And now our POTUS is threatening fiscal sanctions against schools who do not allow such a thing

There is some misunderstanding and misstating of the facts about what Obama told them or wants them to do
All he did is to remind the offenders of the 1971 law baring state sponsored discrimination if a state is to receive certain federal fundings.

[Jenniferathome]

...Disclaimer: I am speaking only for myself here.

...When it comes to folks like CDs, at least to me, it's more complicated. I don't believe we need to legislate the right for them to be in there. ...

Zooey, I agree with you here. It IS more complicated for CDs. I do not identify as female but even my wife agrees that using the men's room would look really weird. I do not think I would be beaten in a men's room but who knows. It would feel weird to be in there, for certain. I would never enter a woman's locker room as there is not the same level of privacy for the women inside as in a restroom. And, I agree, we do not need legislation. Whatever "rules" existed last year or 10 years ago seemed to work as there have been ZERO documented instances with trans or CDs causing problems. Clearly it was not a problem and is now being used to obfuscate.

[Heidi Stevens]

Just how anal have Americans become over going? Remember "trough" urinals at gyms, ball parks, etc.? They took the one out of the old ball park about 30 years ago because the guys got tired of crowding up to each other between innings.

[Krististeph]

From what I am hearing from my red-neck friends, they are afraid of their daughters having to issues with perverts. I wonder if they are as concerned with their sons and perverts! Most North Americans are prudes and those who attempt to prove otherwise go to the opposite extreme, which is as bad! There is a middle ground, dare I say the "c" word, compromise, which means that no one gets what they want,

Okay- this is good information- because no one want their daughters to have to deal with 'perverts'.

But what constitutes a "pervert"? The more open we are - the less chance anyone can get away with anything.

i can't think clearly at the moment, so i won't postulate anything- but it seems that reactionary people equate transgender with pervert, or on other words: "people who are not what think I grew up with" are "child molesters".

I understand the fear- heck we'd kill to protect our kids. All of us. But protect from what?

I think it really trickles back to beliefs..

keep working this train of thought, is what i am saying.



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Sorry, calling BS on that. I see more "misses" in the women's room on the seats because some women "Hover" Honestly, both genders have issues. So the whole seat argument is a fallacy. It comes down to, again, personal politeness. (One women's room on the interstate about mad me barf with all the urine on the seat and floor)

I see piddle on the seat in the bathroom (college) regularly. What the heck is going on there? Grab some tissue, wipe it up. wash you hands.

btw- urine- from an uninfected bladder, is sterile. Gross, YES; but sterile. I hate using the school bathroom but at times i must. I'm suprised we do not have disinfectant wipes in stalls yet. Too much risk from skin irritation from residual chemicals, probably.

Personally- i'd rather have a rash than a uti.

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Just how anal have Americans become over going? Remember "trough" urinals at gyms, ball parks, etc.? They took the one out of the old ball park about 30 years ago because the guys got tired of crowding up to each other between innings.

But this is where it all starts:

If everyone (male) is allowed to pee at will in a certain space- fine. What about those who are not male? It's not about shy-ness, it is about fear of exposure to the unknown or the unusual. We ALL have bad knee jerk reactions to it. But we have to realize that there are people out there who are not going to fit into simple male or female.

And majority rule does NOT work in these cases.

Think about a classroom. I teach electronics. I get very upset over the blase attitudes of some students. They play lawyer with me- (they do NOT win) but even at that- this is not a democratic decision: Do the freaking work.

what this means: Yes we should be relaxed about all this- but someone needs to set a reasonable standard, and enforce it.

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You know I have been in plenty of public pool locker rooms where a dad takes his daughters into the men's room and my wife has seen her share of boys with their moms in the women's room. These kids are all wide eyed and staring but no pitchforks come out and the police are not called. Diversity in the gene pool is good but not in public pool.

Good lord! A little girl might have seen a penis? Other than her dad's?

I think this is the crux of the issue here. really. Christie has hit the issue:

As a little boy- if you go into the women's bathroom. if the barriers are bad, you might see the private parts of someone other than your mother. I can see moms not all that happy about it and i can see moms kind of upset about it.

As a little girl- if you go into the guy's bathroom- the upset is so much greater. But why should it be?

granted- females are not equal to males, they are much more susceptible to rape and abuse. and we protect them more as such. And we should continue to do to for the foreseeable future.

The real problem is a minority of men who take advantage of situations like this.

They are first and foremost: BULLIES.

Eliminate the bully mentality and you eliminate the gender issues.

I think this works. Rally up sister TGs: Is this a reasonable hypothesis?

I really think this bathroom issue is a combination of several social issues: this would explain the complexity- and the inability to find a single simple answer:

Those guys who have to take their girls into the men's bathrooms- this is a hard thing. How do they do this? This is serious: because this is how we deal with issues of gender:

Privacy- in a stall, with dad- and no one dares mess around with it.

Privacy.

Forcing people to do bathroom functions en masse is the problem.

We all tend to choose privacy for bathroom functions - so why the freaking freak freak do we not just have private stalls in schools?

Money- it saves a few mother-freaking dollars to make a multi-stall bathroom rather than multiple stalls.

A few bucks, really?

The people who should be attacked are the ones who started this whole "lets go to the bathroom as grouped by genders" crud. It does not work. for little boys with moms, or little girls with dads.

This is the united states. 2016 quit asking me to share my bathroom activities for freaks sake!