How do we open the door?

[Teresa]

I don't intend this thread to be about the numbers question, that's been asked so many times before. The point is we don't know the exact figure of closeted people under the TG umbrella , as most of us know we often spend years thinking we're an isolated weirdo until we take the first step of looking and finding help forums, but what percentage actually do that we'll never truly know, but it must be the tip of an iceberg .
Members of the social group I attend don't wear labels around our necks saying if we're CD or TS, there's no discrimination we all chat and treat each other with mutual respect. So how do we educate other people that we are all different and not silly men wearing their wife's clothes for some inexplicable reason.
I applaud PaulaQ for her bravery on appearing in the media, but the problem is the media isn't always sympathetic, they prefer sensationalism rather than true reality on most occasions.

So how do we put the message across ? I was going to ask the question of how many times you've seen a helpline or hand out leaflets in you local doctor's surgery or in other pubic places or maybe on your local church notice board ? That open availability would certain help closeted people and their wives, partners or even parents to realise it's not such a terrible problem and help is freely available. Seeing social groups appear in most towns would be a great step forward, meeting your neighbour or maybe your doctor, solicitor or the binman , if it ever happened the numbers coming out might be very interesting.
I will add that a leaflet from a doctor's waiting area or hospital one, may give the impression that it's an illness that may have a cure. Also and sadly some church denominations can be very introverted and bigoted about the TG community and insight local fear and apprehension. I recall reading some terrible stories when I first joined the forum about the problem , I'm not sure if the situation has improved or the forum removes all mention now of religion, but I'm not that naive to think that problem has totally gone away , certainly members bring it up quite often in the US.

Making the point about who we are, yes the public needs to see the TG situation more open and integrated into the community, it's sad to see us having heated debates within the forum about acceptance among ourselves , some have very hard times with the situation whether they're TS or not, we really should support each other in that respect.
The only area I struggle to deal with is the F-M TG community which I understand is on the increase, it just feels incomprehensible , logically being wired differently can happen to anyone, it's something I will have to come to terms with, as yet I haven't met one so it will be a new experience when I do.

[Lorileah]

great question. It would in some manner legitimize being trans. One could ask why we don't see these types of things about being gay or promiscuous or a myriad of things outside doctor's offices who specifically care for these things (note: neither of those examples are illnesses, just things that people may need help coping with).

First it isn't easy getting these things started. I am part of a "postvention" suicide committee who wants to start a support network for those who survive losing someone to suicide (even out to co=workers and neighbors)and in a year we haven't made any headway. I would bet that if you went to an endo or OB/gyn who has experience with the trans community they have info for you (now on the CD side, if a CD wants help I am sure it is available from the same sources, but they have to want to reach out) I know churches who are inclusive and would have info also. But this info would be directed to TS members because, again, the CDs often don't seek confirmation (but may seek a "cure")

My take is that those who aren't transitioning would have to WANT info and be willing to be out about it, at least to the clergy and medical professions. But there is still the fear and shall we say "mistrust" that these people would not keep it to themselves (seen it over and over here about panties in the DR's office and how later in the break room it is the topic of the day).

Some of us have to be in the public eye. So we have to open up to people. If you don't feel the need for that, no publications or PSAs or news stories is going to change your mind. I always say that we get press when things are bad and out of our control (i.e. crossdresser in public park doing something illegal) but you rarely see, and even when it occurs it is buried, things that show the good things (like did you know there is a high political appointee who is trans?...No but you know Caitlyn.) If we could, somehow take all the voices in the community, and I mean ALL, and make a statement, then working towards acceptance would be easier. But honestly, even here, we can't agree on most things.

[Kate Simmons]

The best way to open the door is by just being ourselves and going about our business as per status quo. I've found over the years if we try to do this through some group, we will end up sorely disappointed as groups normally have their own agendas.If an opening comes up along the way we might make some pointed comments or ask some leading questions. In any case we don't owe an explanation to anyone as to why we are who we are. We don't ask total strangers for a detailed history of how they got to be who they are, so why should we offer one? Just being ourselves should send the message that we are just regular folks when all is said and done.

[Teresa]

I've just realised that the thread I've just posted about the UK 2021 national census is a small opening up on the governments side because it's trying to get a more accurate answers about the TG community . I also mentioned that part of my problem is at my own front door !

[Jenniferathome]

...I applaud PaulaQ for her bravery on appearing in the media, ...

Now, first, I do not mean to dismiss Paula's bravery, BUT... trans people live just one way. Either women or men. Paula spoke as a transwoman, living her every moment as a woman. We MtoF cross dressers live as men and just occasionally dress as women.

So, the plight of the trans women is not ours. As for acceptance from the public, I think trans people have it WAY easier then cross dressers. Yep, I actually wrote that. The normals, generally, can accept that transition is a real thing. Just as being gay or lesbian is a real thing and not a choice. We cross dressers are certainly viewed as making a choice and a weird one at that. The upside for us cross dressers is that if things aren't going well in girl mode, we can jump back to boy mode any time we like.

Now, your question is valid. How do we educate? To me, it's not about being part of some TG umbrella but rather interaction with the normals, one at a time. Positive interactions will change minds. It will just take a long time.

[pamela7]

perhaps the grass is always greener, the other person's job always easier Jennifer, and so with easier life. you make your life easy or hard, you choose a tough neighbourhood or an easy one, you live with accepting people or non-accepting ones. No-one else makes it tough for you, though your inner victim might try to make it look that way.

Now to the main question; how to open the door? Turn the latch and pull, walk out and show the world. 1 million such little acts get seen and the world realises it has to live with it.

As to your struggle Teresa, i'm surprised. surely after all the non-acceptance from your wife you can realise the same goes the other way? We have a f2m in our house, and it was just as hard for them to get their gender accepted by others. Relatives still use their birth name; and they will do until he exercises his personal power and gets visibly angry with the lack of respect. On a fractal level the same goes; the moment you take the power in dynamics - and women can indeed do so - the moment others let go of it. Touching on the wider vulnerability; why are women fearful of men? Because men are predators? Because other men won't risk themselves to protect the weaker party? Cowardice is the word to describe the aggressor-bully who perps on the vulnerable.

[AbigailJordan]

I think like everything else, it all depends on the person who encounters it. Most people are quite accepting once they have the answers to the obvious questions regarding sexuality and desire or lack of to transition etc. My manager at work for example finds the whole "only at the weekend" type thing much easier to rationalise than a desire to transition fully.

We all agree that it is in no way an illness, but we still label any support or assistance as "help" which suggests some kind of suffering. In much the same way as being gay was once considered to be "wrong", and there were attempts to "help" people get better rather than supporting them in who they are. Maybe one day we will have the same luxury of being "different but the same" the way the majority of the LGBT+ spectrum are after a long struggle.

For me, I educate the people around me whenever they show an interest. and I show them the difference one outfit at a time by combining masculine, feminine and androgyne depending how I feel each day. I'm as comfortable going to the store as my male self, as my male self wearing a skirt and cute top.. or as the full Abi in party outfit. I don't push my dressing on others, but if others express opinion on TS/TG/CD issues, I will tend to explain that I dress before they end up saying something that might be considered offensive.

After the shock wears off, most are very receptive.. Including my manager at work who recently mentioned a friend of his wifes who had chosen to transition.. He even asked if I would ever do the "weekend thing".. well.. once I showed him the avatar pic over there he was stunned but very positive about it.. I am now out to all the guys in the team at work and Abigail is even part of the office banter, which is something I wouldn't have dared think about just a few months ago.

Just as everything is based on perception, it's possible that occasionally, our perception of the perception of others can be as wrong as anything else.

[Teresa]

Jennifer,
Yes I totally agree with you because I'm a Cder we understand each other but the public don't, they don't see or understand the different labels we use within our community.

I like the idea of freely available leaflets in public places as I mentioned so many parties can pick it up , the desperate closeted CDer, a wife, partner or parents. Often just seeing something displayed without picking it up may enable people to start to normalise the TG situation.

As I mentioned the proposed UK census changes could be a step in the right direction, everyone will more aware of the acceptance and existence of the TG community and many more will have to consider coming out to stay within the law, that point doesn't sound so good , I'm not sure how enforceable it will be.

Abigail,
I do agree with you on the coming out comments, our fear is more in our heads than the reality, I use photos to get my message across, people are surprised what i look like, many have the image a man in a dress maybe making a fool of themselves under different circumstances I would be out dressed more, but that's more over concerns of my family than myself. As you say don't force on anyone , also like you I never dreamed such a short time ago that I would be as open as I am and going out dressed.

[Alexa CD]

This is going to be a difficult thought to explain so I'll put it incredibly simply. Rather than open a door and acknowledge that one exists, we need to remove it. An open door can be closed and even if open still represents a divide. I think this is how the gay community has been so successful, they simply removed the door with help from the other side rather than attempting to open it.

I hope that makes sense to some of you.

[Teresa]

Alexa,
Yes I understand , it was just a turn of phrase for a title, sometimes it's difficult to find a correct one.

Maybe I could have asked, " How do we become more open to the public ?" or " How do we make the TG community better understood ?"

[Megan G]

So, the plight of the trans women is not ours. As for acceptance from he public, I think trans people have it WAY easier then cross dressers. Yep, I actually wrote that. The normals, generally, can accept that transition is a real thing. .

I have to disagree with you Jenn, and not just because I am TS but thru the experience of coming out to everyone in my life gave me a little insite to this. When I decided to pull the pin on the Tranny Grenade(TM) I think the most common response was "why can't you just settle with being a crossdresser and not go thru all that.. I had many friends say it and a lot of relatives so from my experience people were more willing to accept a CD'er than a TS. I will not venture into everyday life as there is just no arguement on who it's harder on..

As for the OP, to open the door and get your conversation moving you need to stand up and be counted. You need to get out of the shadows of your closet and into the real world so people can see you and so you can engage in conversation with them.

[Jenniferathome]

Megan, I get what you are writing. The people closest to you are fearful for you. I agree, anyone with a vested interest in you will look to alternative first. My comment was specifically about the "general public." STILL, your comment shocks me none-the-less. Certainly this is a debate to which we'll never get an answer but I can't let go of the "cross dressers are weirder than trans people" idea. What a great survey THAT would be.

[Teresa]

Megan,
I am out of the closet, at the moment it may only be to attend social meetings but it's start. I am out to quite a circle of people now . I'm not sure why you made that comment but you can see what I look like at the meetings if you dig in the archives in the picture section.
I discussed the 2021 UK census proposals with a group of people today knowing how it could affect me. I had to have physiotherapy today, he queried why my body was shaven last time , as he was Polish he didn't fully understand so I showed a picture and explained about my Cding, I apologised if I had offended him ,he said he was surprised but not offended and thanked me for my honesty. Now he understands why I need to have full movement of my arm back.

It doesn't matter who pulled the pin on the grenade , the fact is you accepted becoming TS , the point is the the public on the whole don't differentiate between our groups , to them we wear clothes of the opposite sex for some inexplicable reason, I was trying to suggest ways how we get over that first hurdle before we segregate and confuse them again but hopefully don't fall out among ourselves , it doesn't help anyone's cause .

Going back to the list of people it could help by a simple leaflet they don't know exactly what they're dealing with all they know is someone they know and love is suffering or causing suffering over wearing the wrong clothes . To most that's their starting point !

[Megan G]

Jenn,

You are absolutely right in the vested interest part, but the way I kind of see the whole thing is they see cross dressing as a "kink" and most likely atribute it to sexuality, just like the many comments I recieved saying "why can't you just be gay". So while they may be confusing cross dressing with just being a sexual kink it gave me the impression that they would have had a much easier time accepting me as a CD than a TS. And it prob has something to do with they would not have had to watch the person they knew "die" and be reborn into this completely new person if I was a crossdresser. They would have still been able to see the old me on occasions..

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Teresa,

It was not a shot specifically at you, I realize you are beginning to come out to more and more people.

I was just pointing out that if the conversation was to really open up a lot of freeking people need to stop hiding and stand up and be heard. Until that point comes the conversation is pretty one sided..

[Teresa]

Megan,
I may be looking more at the softly softly approach rather than banging the big drum ! The latter is OK but when the media get hold of it they often contort it to make it more sensational , all most of them are looking for is the big headline !

The continual drip policy has quite an effect , continually seeing leaflets often normalises things. Consider ones you do see now in waiting areas , it's not long ago they many of them would have been taboo subjects.

OK to put another slant on this perhaps some members of the TG community prefer the hiding factor or the dare factor , if it becomes an everyday thing they have nothing to get a kick or a high on !

[Lorileah]

No matter if you like it or not, the plight to the TS has bearing on the plight of every other branch of the community. Look at history, lets use the Native Americans for instance. The tribes who were "friendly" were not saved when the government started isolating them. Same with Germany, you are guilty by association. Happening now with many diverse groups that most people (muggles) see as the "the same". But, I have given up asking for everyone to try and make everyone else's lives better and easier. I don't get the mindset, but I don't have time to try and make you all see...same boat, we should paddle in the same direction.

[Zooey]

I am out of the closet, at the moment it may only be to attend social meetings but it's start. I am out to quite a circle of people now . I'm not sure why you made that comment but you can see what I look like at the meetings if you dig in the archives in the picture section.

Because it's relevant to some discussions happening here, I feel it's necessary to clarify what most of the trans women here are referring to when we say "out" or "out of the closet".

If you are actively/deliberately hiding your identity, whatever it may be, from anyone... You are not out.

You may be out to some people. You may be in the process of coming out to more people. That is excellent, and I'm proud of you, because it's not easy. Regardless, you are still not out of the closet yet. You may be "partially out", or "coming out", but you are not "out".

It is not about revealing your status and/or history to every human you're within 5m of - it's about being your actual self. I don't yell "I'm trans" every time I go to the store, but I am always myself - a woman - regardless of where I am, who I'm with, and what I'm doing. I do not have a male mode to hide behind when it'd be more comfortable.

This applies to all identities, although it can be more confusing to decode in the case of truly mixed or fluid gender folks. This is one of the fundamental differences we often talk about between e.g. post-full-time trans women and most CDs here (even those who go out dressed), and it applies within the TS group as well. If you've read posts in there about how "part-time" or "full-time except..." are not the same experience as "full time", this is what we're talking about. For those who identify as CDs and are regularly out and about, think about what you would say if somebody you know (but hadn't told) asked you if you crossdress, or ran into you while you were out dressed. How would you react?

There is nothing wrong with being "in progress", "partially out", etc. It's a state pretty much everybody goes through, and for different lengths of time. There is, however, a very real and very significant difference between that and truly "out", both philosophically and in terms of the practicalities and experiences of living one's life.

[heatherdress]

Teresa - You ask "How do we open the door?" My response would be "Open the door to what?" or maybe "Open the door for what?"

Crossdressers want privacy. Those who go out want to blend or pass. Many do not, or feel they cannot, even let their wives, children, friends and co-workers know that they crossdress. What door do you think they want opened? The majority do not want to be "out", or be "partially out". Disclosure about crossdressing by wearing a bra and heels in your home a few times a month because it feels sexy, or underdressing occasionally with panties, does not relate to disclosure about sexual identity. If we are outside and someone recognizes us as a crossdresser and makes a comment, we ignore it. We do not have the desire to explain to strangers why we dress like a woman. Crossdressing for most crossdressers I know is not about being "out" to others.

And as far as conveying a message about crossdressing or transgenderism, anyone familiar with the array of self-described crossdressing descriptions and behaviors and identities that are described every day on this site would be challenged to try and present a consistent and understandable message to the general public describing what crossdressing means because it is so different for each of us.

[Teresa]

Zooey,
This wasn't intended to be a discussion about being , "OUT ", but as far as my personal situation is concerned I would like to put this issue to bed.
During my gender counselling I began to realise my situation wasn't going to improve unless I made the break and separated from my wife. The intention was to move away, dress possibly 100% and form a life around a basic teaching course and then running some form of adult painting group. I realised I had to have an income and was thinking and planning how I could reform my life . My wife started to plan how she would reform her life after the split, it soon became apparent that it was going to hurt us and other people too much. I would have to leave my wife struggling in a bomb crater trying to pick up the pieces. We discussed how we could integrate my needs back into our lives, I knew how much I was compromising my life in an attempt to keep forty years of married life and all that goes with it intact , everyone was relieved that we had reached that decision , much of this has been discussed in various threads in Loved Ones section, most members applauded my decision some doubted I could live with the compromise. I will admit it's a double life I'm living which was a question I asked in M/F section, I admit I'm not totally happy with it.
The point about stages of being out , at sixty five it's only just happened for me and I still can't believe it has but on my first outing I drove the thirty or so miles dressed and walked in the hotel, to my surprise I wasn't nervous, it just felt right I was so comfortable with just being me, I apologise the attached picture has been used before but it shows just how I felt. For me it was a defining moment, my World had changed I had brought my other side together. So I'm not going out in my local area, but that is more the benefit of others, I have asked if I can attend my art group dressed my tutor doesn't have a problem neither do some of the members who know about my dressing but there are other complications . The net of people who know is expanding rapidly and I don't have a problem with it but at some point I'm sure this double life bubble is going to burst . Whether you feel I'm in denial but I'm not going to use my age as an excuse it is too late for radical changes, I still have responsibilities I can't walk away from .

I hope Marcelle ( Isha ) doesn't mind me commenting but we have discussed the difference an understanding partner makes , the way she describes her lifestyle is how I would like to describe mine , it's not going to happen to that extent I will do my best to be happy with what I have .

Heatherdress,
The point about being out is my personal view , it's something I need .
Your question of opening the door to who ? not only applies the CD/TG/TS but the people around them that also need as much help to deal with the situation.
Maybe you would like to open a thread asking how many would prefer to be out of the closet if they were given the chance without any repercussions ?

[Jenniferathome]

...If you are actively/deliberately hiding your identity, whatever it may be, from anyone... You are not out....

Zooey, I need to comment on this statement because it just doesn't work universally. If you are a transperson, YOU HAVE TO BE out to everyone in order to live your life. As a cross dresser, I do not. My cross dressing affects no one in my life, except my wife and she knows. Now, you asked me privately but asked the same thing above so I'll answer publicly. If someone I know saw me while I was dressed and then asked me about it then or later, I'd admit the truth. "Yep, that was/is me." Then I'd attempt to educate a but and answer questions. I'm a pragmatic person and my cross dressing is a "need to know" situation. Those that need to know, do or will know. I live my life comfortably with that.

I'll add that I do NOT consider myself "out" because I told my wife nor because I go out. I can, however, easily understand a situation where a cross dresser is "out" and still not have told "everyone." Cross dressing simply does not have to affect "everyone" that one knows.

[Alice Torn]

I, and a gay friend of mine have been members of a very conservative, yet, not so condemning small, unusual out of the mainstream church. It broke into a number of different sects, after the elderly leader died, in 1986. He and a only several other people that he knows of, were gays in the church. I think i may be the only Cd, or the only one that has admitted it to anyone. Well, my friend is now sexually abstinent, but is lifetime gay, and he opened up to a minister, (now deceased), who actually did a lot of homework, on homosexuality, and changed from his harsh condemning view he had before, and became the head of that church worldwide, and allowed my friend, to write a long article, telling his story, anonymously, in the church big bimonthly magazine! A few years later, my friend asked if he could give a short talk, in one of the congregations after Saturday services, and he courageously told his story, with tears, and a few people there, were shedding tears, too, and comforted him, after he was done talking. No one was condemning. This is a church which observes the law, but it is good to see, he was not showed his way outside. I am not saying that church accepts homosexuality, or TG or TS, but it is good to see this with my gay friend, Sadly, though, my friend wants little to do with me now, as I accidentally sent him my Alice Torn Youtube channel, and he does not like that i CD. i hope we can still be friends later.

[Zooey]

'll add that I do NOT consider myself "out" because I told my wife nor because I go out. I can, however, easily understand a situation where a cross dresser is "out" and still not have told "everyone." Cross dressing simply does not have to affect "everyone" that one knows.

Jennifer, just so we're clear, you are substantially more "out" than most of the situations that I was addressing here. Perhaps you are "out enough", or "as out as you ever need to be".

My point, however, is that even "out enough" is not the same as "out", and it's important to avoid conflating the experience of the two. Like I said, that goes for everybody.