Autogynephilia

[Starshine24]

So I have been really searching myself to find out about myself and only after talking with several people in the LGBT community I was pointed to this topic.
Autogynephilia
Basically, I am attracted to female clothing for intimate reasons. When I am finished being intimate, I am completely done being "en femme". According to those I talked to, this was the biggest reason why I was directed to this topic in particular.
I've lived for years now assuming I was a crossdresser. Is this really what I have been searching for? Please give some insight if you have it.

[Teresa]

Starshine,
There have been some differences of opinion on this topic, I believe the term applies to me but with the addition of transvestic. The actual term to love yourself as a woman is something I can relate to.
The big BUT is Blanchard got too much of it wrong , there were too many anomalies in his research and case studies.

I'm like you, the more you search for answers the more complex it becomes, some members eventually say just go and enjoy it and don't worry too much about labels. It still intrigues me as to what makes a CDer tick.

[Starshine24]

I know you're right in quoting the other members. I guess my issue is trying to get a label so I can explain it to others (mainly the wife.)
I did read though that Blanchard was criticized for his work. But maybe it was just as complex to him as it is to us.

[Kate Simmons]

I think maybe the majority of us start out this way whether we may admit it or not. It may stay there or develop into being mostly about feelings.Either way the important thing I think is to accept who we are and the feelings that go along with that.

[marshalynn]

Starshine24, I read some where that after you are (intimate) your body gives off a hormone that makes you feel this way. Natures way of making you want to walk away. Do more research on this. Marshalynn

[Teresa]

Starshine,
I'm so glad to hear you say that, I keep digging so I can understand it, I can then explain it to others if they choose to listen.

During my gender counselling I wrote it all down and devised a gender sheet to get it clear in my head where I am on the TG spectrum.
It was a great exercise and I do recommend it I know now where I am, I accept I have a GD problem, and AGP comes into the equation, but I also described myself as a male lesbian. Again there has been some debate over this so I now accept bi-gender, I also know how that I'm just on the male side of TS. The problem I had was the sheet didn't make sense until I tied it in how my CDing started, after I'd completed this I wrote an unbiased summary sheet to say where I am now with my CDing. My counsellor went through it with me and couldn't see any problems, in fact a colleague asked if she could use the basis for another client . The point was I had something my wife could read that I knew was factual , she only read my summary but it was enough to make my point.
After all these years I still feel how my CDing started has affected me and still need to tell it to try and get it out of my system.

[ClosetED]

There have been other labels for this as well. But there are differences if a man put on panties and got gratification and took them off. Never taking pictures, adding more items of clothing or wig. But if you add more items, try to look more feminine, act more feminine, and that gets you hot, then there is a difference. If the idea of a GG putting those on you gets you hot, that is also different than the first scenario. Many may start out that way, but from those stories told here, most, as they age or get more total time dressed, may feel less need for release, and just enjoy the peace and calm they find from seeing, feeling, hearing, smelling the felinity that they desire. YMMV.
Hugs, Ellen

[Starshine24]

I didn't think about that :\
I don't need a wig because I have shoulder-length hair... But I do have a huge collection of clothes. I love the idea of being feminine and acting as such. I guess this isn't what I'm looking for.

[Leah Grace]

I've met many who think autogynephilia, or what Serano calls 'Female Embodiment Fantasies', is bullshit and an excuse to keep transwomen from transitioning. While I think this may be true in some cases, its not in others.

I like to use the term 'crossdreaming' for myself. Because I really do get aroused and excited by the thought of myself as a woman. But I'm fine being a guy in every day life. So in that sense, and there are people like that, it does exist. Just not in the way Blanchard thought it did.

[Lorileah]

I know you're right in quoting the other members. I guess my issue is trying to get a label so I can explain it to others (mainly the wife.)

Ok, just my thought. I would guess you are looking for something to prove you aren't different. Credibility so to speak. Reinforcement maybe. But you start throwing big words around, especially when you are trying to convince your wife about this, you will lose her attention in a heart beat. Why do you need an academician to explain things? It's easy to just say "Hey, I like the way it feels." or "It gives me joy." you don't need to get into any mpre details than that. You start throwing sexuality in there and you get people who really start looking at you as unusual.

Addendum:

Starshine24, I read some where that after you are (intimate) your body gives off a hormone that makes you feel this way. Natures way of making you want to walk away.

Wow, so that explains why guys roll over and go to sleep or turn on the TV. It's hormones. Sorry, it's not true. You will have a release of beta endorphin, but that is with any activity. Or maybe women don't have that hormone you speak of, because usually they don't want to walk away (nor do people in early relationships and a few men)

[Mykaa]

so after you dress, your intimate then you undress & its all done? No feelings of remorse, shame, or guilt? If thats the case why the profile picture? I can relate to what your getting at, but Im close to 49 now and no I dont have the drive I used to, but I dress more often now than I ever used to, I enjoy the look & the feel of what I wear. Ive been this way since I was a child, no its never going to go away. I know labels can help define things, to me Im gender fluid, Im fine with that, I accepted this in me, I let go of all that bad stuff, all done, no more. Im me & Im happy being me.

[PaulaQ]

I've met many who think autogynephilia, or what Serano calls 'Female Embodiment Fantasies', is bullshit and an excuse to keep transwomen from transitioning. While I think this may be true in some cases, its not in others.

Blanchard's theory only applies to MtF transsexuals who transition. A lot of us don't find that it matches our narrative very well. The hostility towards the theory from the community is understandable, because many use the connection to sexuality / use of the word "paraphilia" in the theory to make our identities not deemed as legitimate. In other words - we have no sympathy for you, you whacked off until you couldn't stand not being a girl.

For one thing - the questions Blanchard used to indicate that the MTFs who crossdressed were sexualizing images of themselves as female also indicate a positive for enough cisgender women to call the whole thing into question. Presumably cisgender women don't fetishize themselves, so there is a decent chance his survey isn't measuring what it aims to measure.

A really unfortunate things about all this is that while you are right, this has been used to discourage transition, Blanchard himself favored transition for MtFs who were attracted women.

There is a very real desire in the trans community for the narrative "woman's mind trapped in a man's body" or vice versa, to be true. It's possible that it isn't quite true though, and that we are something else. The societal assumption that there are "only men and only women" is still a problem whatever the case is. We would like science to give us a silver bullet that says "See! I am a REAL WOMAN just like any other - treat me with equality and dignity, or at least not any worse than you treat cisgender women!" We may not get that though.

Unfortunately, in our society, the stigma associated with ANYTHING involving sexuality makes us doubly illegitimate in the eyes of many.

BTW, there is some evidence that rather than being a psychological phenomenon, the differences from cisgender people in the brains of trans people are in the areas that are associated with sexual orientation. In other words, Blanchard may have been right in some sense - that there is a correlation between sexual orientation and the way trans people feel before transition. His idea of why it was that way would be wrong in that case (internalized homophobia for male attracted MtFs, and internalized paraphilia for female attracted MtFs), but the physical differences in our brains from cisgender people may very well be in areas that are related to sexual orientation.

Anyway, I'm not so convinced any of the science gets us very far with people. Look - even if you can prove none of this is your fault, you were born this way - you are till liable to be viewed as an "other" by many people, who will consequently feel no issue whatsoever with mistreating you.

[Tommie.]

Yes... what she ^ said! Relax and enjoy....

[Ineke Vashon]

After awhile it seems one cannot see the forest because of the autophylideciduous trees, or something like that. My last girlfriend allowed that she wore certain dresses because it made her feel sexy. I like to wear a dress and sometimes that gets me aroused. Is there much difference?

And, frankly, it's a lot more fun to satisfy oneself wearing a clingy dress than wearing a snowsuit.

Ineke

[Teresa]

PaulaQ,
I know we've been down this road before eventually we settled on what you say in your last paragraph, and I have to agree with Lorileah, that we may like the big words but our partners want it in small chunks of understandable reasoning.

One question, you say Blanchard only applied it to M/F transexuals, please correct me if I'm wrong but did he introduce a sub section to deal with the CDer calling it Transvestic Autogynerphilia ? That is what I tend to relate in my situation.

Mykaa,
I never found it as simple as that , sometimes the clothes were discarded quickly after but only because I needed to be doing other things , so it may have been more of annoyance that I couldn't remain dressed , rather than guilt or shame .

Ineke,
Yes it is a good point , I think that's where counselling has it's place , to try and remove the dead wood clogging up our thoughts !

[Mayo]

Blanchard distinguished two types of trans women: homosexual transsexuals, or gay men who want to be women so they can have sex with other men, and autogynephilic transsexuals, straight men who become sexually aroused at the thought of being a woman.

His typology is limited in application (it only fits MTF TS, and not all of those either) and has been excellently critiqued by Julia Serano and many others. Since most cis peoples' sexual fantasies are of themselves in their identified gender, it could be argued that most cis women are also autogynephilic by his definition. Like homosexuality, it's only a 'problem' when the object of someone's fantasy doesn't match what we think of as 'normal' for their gender.

That said, I have on occasion used the term 'autogynephile' as a descriptive term for myself (divorced from Blanchard's theories). By the same logic, I'm also an autoandrophile a significant portion of the time. However, if we simply accept gender as a continuum (like 'biological sex' or sexual orientation) then there's no need for such designations. Rather than pathologizing my identity, I prefer to think of myself as expressing some bi-gender or non-binary elements - so I can say that my gender identity is 80% male, just as I could (simplistically) describe my sexual orientation as '70% heterosexual'.

[ReineD]

I think it’s unfortunate that in the 1990s, Blanchard applied the autogynephilia theory to transitoning MtFs. We all understand now that a person who suffers from gender dysphoria DOES NOT transition for paraphilic reasons and I understand why the transsexual community so strongly rallied together to debunk Blanchard’s theory. It doesn’t apply to them! Gender dysphoric MtF transsexuals should not be considered fetishistic when they choose to transition and it was entirely appropriate to stop calling it a disorder … Gender Dysphoria was called "Gender Identity Disorder" in the DSM-IV and it was included in a section entitled "Sexual and Identity Disorders", along with Sexual Dysfunctions and Paraphilias. All of this was changed in the DSM-V, which was released three years ago!

But, there certainly have been many CDers (not TSs) here over the years who have said they become (or became) aroused at the thought of being, not just any plain-old woman, but as one member described it a few months ago, THAT woman (the one who is sexually appealing). And we all know there are millions of websites devoted to the CDing as a sexual interest.

So if there hadn’t been such bad press surrounding the theory because it had wrongly been applied to transsexuals (as you can see from the link in the OP … the website TSroadmap still refers to is as a "sex-fueled mental illness"), and if it was understood that some CDers do indeed dress for sexual reasons and they certainly are not mentally ill, then I think that reading about autogynephilia - without associating it with transition - might be helpful in aiding a CDer to not only understand himself, but to honor himself as well. And I would love it if there was research about how autogynephilia and other sexual interests can change over time.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having sexual preferences that are atypical (engaged in by a minority of people). In fact, it is becoming increasingly accepted in the psychiatric community there is indeed a very wide range of atypical sexual interests not only among hundreds of millions of people but cross-culturally as well. So all of these sexual interests do indeed form a part of the human fabric. Here is what Psychology Today has to say about it, and it is time for people to stop being ashamed of their sexual preferences just because they were once thought of as being somehow perverted.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...s-do-not-exist

[Tonya Rose]

yup I`m calling Bullshit on Blanchard`s theory as well..We are who we are and Blanchard can kiss my Ass... We all have our own reasons for doing what we do....

[Teresa]

Reine,
I'm really grateful you've taken the trouble to explain AGP. I've been blowing hot and cold over telling my story of how my CDing started and the associated dreams, I have lived with the combination of events for all these years . In the light of what you have said I think I should tell it, to firstly come to terms with it and hopefully find someone else that will relate to it, which in the time I've been a member here hasn't happened.

[ReineD]

Reine,
I'm really grateful you've taken the trouble to explain AGP.

But I didn't explain AGP. I talked about why it has understandably received such bad press from the transsexual community. Transsexuals DO NOT transition for reasons of sexual arousal.

But, certainly a lot of CDers have said they do or have become aroused when they dress, and they should not feel ashamed about this. Humans do become aroused over a wide range of things and it is time that we collectively stop thinking about atypical sexual practices (no matter what they are) as being perverted, sinful, or deviant (provided they are consensual).

But, to those of you who would like to demystify the word autogynephilia, "auto" means self, "gyne" means woman, and "philia" loosely means sexual arousal. So it is sexual arousal over the self while dressed or presenting as a woman.

[sometimes_miss]

I have no problem with Blanchard's concept of autogynephilia, other than that while it may be a correct answer for some, it doesn't apply to all of us. Far too many keep searching for the 'one, true cause of crossdressing', just as scientists go crazy trying to identify the single organism that causes physical infective diseases. So I fully understand why he might believe that thinking along those lines is using a scientific method (but it isn't). But it fails to address that while the end behavior can be similar, the causes can be quite different. For those who may have missed my previous examples, here's one: Why do we feel itchy? Well, it can be due to an allergy, injury, even the thought of things crawling on our skin even when there's nothing there. But it's usually due to some type of contact with some compound (from outside, such as poison ivy, or inside, such as inflammation processes due to sunburn). So while feeling itchy (wanting to crossdress) might result in scratching the itch (actual crossdressing, and relief of the 'itch'), what caused it in the first place can vary, and I think Blanchard fails to understand that. Suggesting that it's the cause, without adding in other possibilities to the casual reader, to me is irresponsible.

[ReineD]

Suggesting that it's the cause, without adding in other possibilities to the casual reader, to me is irresponsible.

This is true. Not every crossdresser dresses for arousal. And not every MtF who puts on a dress is a TS who will transition. And not every member of this community has a gender identity that falls within the gender binary - (some members see themselves as gender fluid). I think we all understand that we can never put every single person who participates in this forum into the same box.

But, it is also irresponsible to tell someone who says outright that he dresses for sexual reasons that he is wrong, or that he is in denial and he really is a TS in denial, or any other way there might be to deny that for this person, it is sexual. This gives the impression that the community does not think highly of CDers for whom arousal is an important result of the crossdressing.

But one thing I didn't mention earlier. Although no one should be ashamed of AGP, it can have negative consequences if it causes discord in a relationship, just like any other alternate sexual preference. It is difficult if a wife is into the husband, but the husband is into dressing or something else. Although the husband might feel it's OK to be into both, most wives aren't OK with having a divided attention and I wonder if perhaps this might be the greatest difficulty with AGP. Maybe some CDers can find a balance with this while others try to move away from the arousal component of the crossdressing in order to maintain relationships with GGs.

Who knows. Maybe this is why alternate sexual practices have been given such a bad rap. They only really work well in relationships if both partners are into it (or if a wife is off of sex and she doesn't care), or if a husband keeps this aspect of the crossdressing private from his wife.

[LilSissyStevie]

Two things are apparent whenever the subject of autogynephilia comes up. 1) People have strong opinions on the subject 2) Nobody knows much of anything about it.

So, test your knowledge:

A male bodied child feels some sort of unease about their assigned gender. They may occasionally dress up in their sister's or mother's clothes and it makes them feel good when they do. At puberty they realize they are aroused by the thought of being female and fantasies of being a female sexually and they sometimes crossdress in an attempt to actualize it. Eventually this sexual arousal wears off or takes a back seat and crossdressing becomes more about comfort and feeling right and expressing a feminine side or inner woman. Soon life as a male becomes unbearable and thoughts of being a woman become constant. They begin to investigate the possibility of transition.

Which of the following statements about the above is true:

A) This person is not an autogynephile because crossdressing is not a fetish for them. Although it was once arousing (isn't everything arousing at puberty?) it isn't anymore. And this person started crossdressing before puberty proving that it was always more about gender identity than sexual arousal.

B) This person is a typical garden variety text book example of autogynephilia according to the people who defined the term.

If you answered "B" you now know something about AGP. Don't shoot the messenger! I do not subscribe to AGP theory for myself - not because I'm not a fetishistic CDer, I'm still stuck at puberty, but because I do not believe my fetish stems from "erotic target location error" as per Blanchard/Lawrence but from the sexualization of childhood emasculation trauma/anxiety. The idea that I'm aroused by the thought of myself as a woman misses the point. I'm only aroused insofar as "being a woman" is emasculating. Also I believe the very idea of paraphilias is morality disguised as science. I'm not opposed to morality but science is amoral. I don't care if AGP is true or not for anyone but it was the first theory that kind of/sort of explained what was "wrong" with me. Proponents of AGP made many good observations that I could identify with. It set me on the right path although I ultimately rejected it. At least it made more sense than the self serving, politically motivated propaganda dished out on many TG sites.

The best book on AGP IMO is "Men Trapped in Men's Bodies" by Dr. Anne Lawrence a self-identified AGP transwoman. Chapter 2 is online here: http://www.annelawrence.com/mtimb.html Also her article "Becoming What We Love" http://www.annelawrence.com/becoming_what_we_love.pdf is a good introduction to AGP theory. It's always better to know what you're talking about when you vehemently oppose something. You won't learn much by just reading the propaganda of opponents.

[Dana44]

Actually after reading all this.
1. gender has nothing at all to do with sexuality.
2. they try to put us in a sexual relation, so I would say that it is not true.
3.if we the transgender are sexual, it is natural to be attracted to women and gay or bi to be attracted to males. Or males and females. We have had a lot of discussions on this.
I would say what you have Starshine is a fetish and that is pretty normal as many of us have arousal when we dress and some times it leads to self gratification and when you are done you undress, mostly because you may feel it not right. We call it what it is, not Autogynephilia which is trying to define that feminism and trans is defined as sexual. When we are fem we are fem and when you are fem you are fem. Plus you use it for gratification. It is a fetish and may change over time.
In conclusion we should not try to put sexual acronyms with gender expression.

[ReineD]

Actually after reading all this.
1. gender has nothing at all to do with sexuality.

Well, actually it does. Whatever else organisms do, their basic goal is to propagate and humans do this by procreation. We evolved to have an ability for bipolar sexual activity (the attraction to and mating of males and females) and so for 95% of us, sexual attraction is indeed tied to gender and sexual identity as in, opposites attract.

I agree that sexual attraction is not tied to gender and/or sexual identity for the small percentage of the population who are variant. Some men are indeed attracted to men and some women are attracted to women. But, you can't wipe out the biological reality of the human species for the few who vary from it.