You stood up for yourself and I commend you for that Mykaa.
Its never easy and feelings get hurt but life is not always a walk in the park.
You have to suck it up and go on come hell or high water.
My first wife told me she would take me for everything but I won everything even custody of my daughters 10 and 5.
Mine got the clothes on her back and I was nice enough to give her a van that was on its last legs.
Last edited by Tracii G; 06-30-2016 at 11:41 PM.
My wife has always been in the drivers seat and after 35 years of marrige she doing her best to keep it that way!
"This is ME" I am not CRAZY, I'm just a GUY who likes dresses!
Since allot of men dress up in woman's clothing that makes it a manly thing to do!
Much more fun than fishing.
I do construction like house building and I love CD-ing, what's the difference?
About 3 years ago, in a fit of frustration, my wife made that very "had I known, I'd never have married you" statement. Yesterday, my wife not only pointed out two skirts and two dresses to me, she actually took me to them, told me I would look good in them, and encouraged me to buy them.
It wasn't easy for either of us to get the where we are now. I stood up to her by continuing to love her, being honest with her, and educating her. To her credit she eventually fought off her instinct to resist and reject. We still disagree on a few issues, but I believe we will find ways to resolve them.
I agree with you Traci, we need to stand up for ourselves.
Karen
I didn't "stand up for myself" in the way that's being suggested here. After the failure of my first marriage (after my wife discovered my secret), I was free of all restraints, and I binged on crossdressing for a while. But within a couple of years, I wanted a real sex life with a real woman. And although I harbored vivid fantasies of how crossdressing could be part of such a real-life relationship, I didn't think I was likely to find a woman who would go for that. I knew what kind of a failure dishonesty could lead to, so I decided to give up my dressing. The woman I ended up with in a "til death do us part" relationship--and it was her death that ended it--had a marvelous libido that satisfied MOST of my desires. That was enough for me. I still had plenty of fantasies, but my sexual energies were expressed in a very conventional man-woman way. While I denied myself something that was a part of me, I don't feel deprived or cheated in what I've gotten out of life. I feel truly lucky (because it's more luck than an achievement on my part), and blessed.
This has been and probably will be a compellng topic as long as this site will exist. There are many reasons why someone would remain in the closet, and having a vengeful wife telling the whole world about your fancys can be disastrous! From my point of view nothing could be worse than to have two people with two different libidos. Then you add some CDing into the mix... Even in an average household there are enough problems in the sex department without adding anything else.
I am firmly in the tell your spouse camp when it comes to CDing, but I am one the the fortunate ones who has acceptance. There is an expression that goes, "happy wife, happy life", and though I don't agree totally with this, I believe it is totally true when it comes to sex. Anything that is satisifying and rewarding will be wanted in a greater amount. Duh, why do you think fetishes exist, because they are satisifying and rewarding! If a wife is unhappy, then the partner needs to find ways to bring happiness and reward into the relationship.
Ultimatums are never good, compromise, finding a middle ground, is what is needed. If that is DADT, then so be it for now. Love softens a relationship, a soft, gentle relationship changes easier, than hard, rigid relationships. Amor vincit omnia...love conquers all things...
Last edited by Gillian Gigs; 07-01-2016 at 06:39 PM.
I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!
It is extremely difficult to get the wife to accept hubby's CDing. Will be pure luck if she accepts (even without positively encouraging). Still better if she herself crossdresses; so you can enjoy role reversal.
We all know that ultimatums don't work. We can agree until we are blue in the face but the CDing won't really go away until we get a handle on it, make it our own and choose whether to do or not. Only when we are at the helm with these desires are they manageable.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
First of all every situation is different, people are different and the cultures that we come from or live in dictate one form of communication or another. There are some basic tenants here about "coming out to the wife, girlfriend or SO". It is easier now than ever before but the same problematic exposures still ring true------"WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME BEFORE" "WHAT ELSE ARE YOU HIDING". I think that we (the people) that have confessed to dressing have heard all this and more, was it worth it???? How much more stress did you put yourself in or how much more stress did you put your SO in????? sometimes it's just better to keep your mouth shut and enjoy your self proclaimed solitude.
Molly
"To thine own self be true"
Each situation is unique. In my case, mine just wanted out. She filed a no-contest divorce, wanted nothing but her clothing, a few miscellaneous items and left. A heart to heart with my mom-in-law told me she hated my house, her life, and had a good many mental issues that I had no knowledge about. Actually, her's were far worse than I ever knew. Our divorce got me out of coming home to find her dead.(!!!) What discussion we had about my dressing was mild in comparison to what was going through her mind. One cannot solve mental issues with a spouse, when the spouse doesn't talk about it.
Really, I couldn't get a straight answer out of her after she filed on me. (Thought I deserved one after 23 years of marriage, but I never got one) I did figure out one thing. I Was living with a stranger.
About 2-3 times a year, I get a blocked call from her, just so she can check on me. (By chance, that one came yesterday) The last one I answered was three years ago, and it infuriated me. She'd ask personal questions, but I wasn't allowed to ask anything about her. I just ignore them now, why put myself through that aggravation.
We who were married can give you some clues in dealing with your dressing and your SO. Since we're not there, we don't know the circumstances, we can't read her mind. All we can do is let you vent. But we sure didn't have the right answers. We did, however come out of it being able to dress whenever we want to.
I don't dress up because I want to be a woman, I dress up to make me happy.
I'd say men who have this attitude should not be married. If they are married they are usually married to women who are "milk toast." I've seen it time and time again over my seven decades on this earth. The man wants a submissive wife who will cower in her place because the husband rules the roost. More power to women who will not let their husbands run over them at will.Originally Posted by Tracii G
If you enter a contract having misrepresented a material set of facts, you get what you deserve. Don't go crying in your beer because your partner has her own set of expectations. If you cannot renegotiate the contract because a woman will not cave into a new set of terms, then get out of the contract. I find your comments crude and offensive.
Stephanie you need to understand as I have stated before I was in those mentally abusive types of marriages so I do know what its like. I'm not one of those abusive males that think the woman HAS to be submissive to the husband quite the contrary actually.
So you get offended when I say that men need to stand up for themselves and they deserve to be happy just as much as the female? Whats wrong with you?
You seem to have missed the point.
My point is if your SO finds out your secret and starts saying mean hurtful things its not fair of her not to listen to the mans side of the story.
There could be many reasons he dresses but not loving his wife is not one of them I'm sure. He doesn't dress to hurt his wife intentionally would be safe to say too so its not a willful act of hate for his wife but her saying mean hurtful things is a hateful thing to do.
You need some thicker skin Stephanie.
Tracii, I think I read you 100%. It's your selection of words. It's the manner in which you express yourself. It may seem hurtful to you that a wife would say "If I had known you were a cross dresser I would not have married you!" She may have some moral objection to cross dressing. Cross dressing may have been or would be a deal breaker in a marriage.
I really do not expect you to see my point. "Spineless wiennie dog" "Shut down put your tails between your legs" "Play lap dog"
You do not have to worry about the thickness of my skin. I have absorbed a lot over the years which has toughened my hide. I have real trouble accepting anyone expressing themselves in a hurtful manner. Do you not think your choice of words towards members of the forum is not hurtful? I sense that you were really hurt in your prior marriages based on your choice of words. And, I totally get the point, but, your expressiveness is not civil. When I use to read comments posted after a news story I found anonymity affords the opportunity to express oneself without any consequences.
I got married to my cd after finding out. So I think my opinion on this is different. But I feel for the wives that find out years into marriage with kids and homes on the line. I can understand why an ultimatum gets made. Is it fair? Maybe not. Reasonable? Maybe. Expected? Sometimes. I think that even if you know that you haven't been decieving them for 20 years, it's hard as a wife to find out something new. And something that in the end has the power to change how yo self identify. Ultimatums get made when wives feel cornered, pigeon holed, lied to, or surprised.
When a man comes out after marriage a wife is suprises by the knowedge that the person she married is not the same. While you know that you are the same person, that is not always obvious to a wife.
Ultimatums are a power play when women feel that the rug has been pulled out beneath them. And then I think the cder doesn't stand up for themselves because they also are also struggling with the wives poor reaction.
It's hard to hear, I never would have married you. And I understand that can feel like an attack. But as a wife, that phrase can mean, this threatens my personal identity, or threatens how I have felt about my own sexuality, or simply I am not attracted to women and a man dressed as a woman wouldn't have been my first choice in a life partner.
That must suck to hear, but is probably the most honest a wife will be through this process, it doesn't mean she doesn't love you, doesn't understand, or won't come to terms. But it can mean, I feel tricked into this marriage under false pretenses. How can I vow to love someone who didn't bother to be honest with me from day one. And, had I known all of this prior to marriage I might have not made the choice to marry you. I feel like this is a reasonable response, to what can feel like an ultimate betrayal.
Just my 2c.
Stephanie If being honest equates to being hurtful in your world then we live in different worlds.
You would rather lie and be miserable? That isn't a healthy way to exist.
No one else got offended just you so I must have hit a nerve.
I never suggested anyone be an asshole to their wife just let your feelings be heard thats all.
Tracii, VERY well written post and I agree with you 110%! Even if you take the CDing out of it, I see a lot of guys bow down to their wives for no apparent reason other than she is a control freak of some sort. I have never had a relationship like that and it baffles me how so many can accept that and live with it. I would go nuts. Where is it written that you surrender all your feelings, wants and needs?
Flip Flops were made for Beaches & Bath Houses, We have neither in 2017. Lose the flip flops!
Oh, you definitely hit a nerve. Big time. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing and reading words lacking any sense of decorum. People seem to have lost the ability to express oneself without denigrating others.
My disgust has nothing to do with the underlying premise that you are trying to put forth. It's your choice of words. They do nothing than to polarize a discussion. Yes, you hit a nerve. Ive read other postings of yours and held back from making a comment. This time you just crossed the line. Try being decent and not inflammatory when making a comment.
Last edited by Lorileah; 07-04-2016 at 12:51 PM. Reason: no politics no religion in this section
Moderator's note; Yellow card
Let's keep it civil and non personal here......
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
It's complex for a lot of crossdressers. Every crossdresser that marries without informing their wife beforehand has made a serious mistake, and breached trust. It is entirely unfair to the wife. She believes she's married XYZ and instead finds out she's married UVWXYZ. She didn't sign up for this. No, marriages are not static and people change. But changing is one thing; being deceived is quite another.
Then there's the issue of kids. You tell her, she goes ballistic, but there's kids...so you don't rock the boat. You go underground again, and try to keep the marriage together for the kids' sake. Throw in messed up finances, lives deeply entangled, the insane cost of divorce, the messed up relationships with extended family who will want to know why. It's a mess.
Then there's the aspect that this is not 'normal'. Since we're not 'normal', it's automatically us that are in the wrong. Society does NOT accept crossdressing. All the LGBT rights advocacy that has gone on over the last few years is great. Same sex couples can not get married and have legal recognition. That was a decades long fight. But, even among the LGB community, the "T" part is something that is looked down upon. The outright hatred openly displayed by millions of Americans towards transgendered individuals is absolutely unreal. The millions that despise the LGB portion have slowly learned that society is increasingly not with them on this point. Even if they retain their hatred for the LGB community, they speak it far less frequently than 20 years ago. The "T" part? Still openly reviled. It's considered a disease, a psychological disorder. Proof of that is what has happened in North Carolina, and the many voices that have come out in support of it, and the Target policy and the millions that signed a petition against Target over it. Let's be clear... We are NOT welcome in society.
Now, take that and place it in the context of marriage. A wife then has to deal with having a husband that, were it out in the open, would be openly reviled. She now has to accept her husband having a secret life, a secret she can't share with anyone, ever.
Then of course, there's the base attraction aspect of it. Most women are not in any way attracted to a man who is feminine. Seeing a man crossdressed is very often an active turn off. Very few and far between are the women who are actively turned on by it. I've been with exactly _1_ woman who was (and considered myself lucky), (and no, she is not my wife, and again I consider myself lucky
Our society feeds this notion that little girls are to grow up and find their knight in shining armor. They are not brought up to find their knight in shining white wedding dress. There is almost certainly not a single mother that ever tells her daughter "Honey, if you are fortunate you will find a man who crossdresses!"
It's really a very, very bad deal for most women.
Exactly Julie if the tables were turned the old not in my back yard term would have most here singing a different tune.
Honesty in the beginning is something that needs to be done if you already CD, to not tell is not fair to the woman.
If its something that happens after you are married then honesty still plays a big part hers as well as yous, get it out on the table and discuss it like adults.
Thats where some guys have a problem they can't admit they enjoy dressing to their wife.
She will either hate you for it and for not telling her or she will love you anyway and deal with it but be glad you told her.She may even still respect you for being honest.
Stephanie my intent was not to be mean to anyone just be honest. If you want to fault me for being honest then go ahead.
Sometimes the truth needs to be expressed and dealt with. How you choose to deal with your situation is up to you.
Last edited by Tracii G; 07-04-2016 at 01:58 PM.
Ever hear the expression, "happy wife, happy life". What a crock, this is tantamount to living as someones door mat. Marriage is supposed to be a 50/50 proposition, they never are, but at least make a honest attempt.
True, CDing may be difficult for many to accept, but there is no attempt with an ultimatum.
Last edited by Gillian Gigs; 07-05-2016 at 12:08 AM.
I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!
I came out to my wife about my CD'ing almost 3 years ago. It's still a work in progress. She barely tolerates it basically. It all came out when she found one of my Cosmo's. I've been reading and collecting Cosmo since I was 14 and have a huge collection which had been secret from her since we've known each other. I hated keeping it secret but was terrified she would reject me or make me get rid of my much loved collection - that indeed would kill me! When she found that Cosmo, all the questions came out - was I gay? (no), did I ever wear women's clothes (yes - some lingerie). She has been quite accepting of my Cosmo collection, but not happy at all with me wearing lingerie. I'm so desperate for her understanding and acceptance, but I am not getting anywhere. I've tried in vain to get her to read articles on cross-dressing - no luck there yet. My wife had a strong religious upbringing. She is not as religious these days, but has very strong beliefs about some things. She brings all this back on herself - sees it as some kind of failing of hers - "Aren't I enough for you?". "You don't need to pretend to be a woman, you're looking at one."
I can't help myself at times and just want her to catch me wearing lingerie. I know it upsets her, but I just desperately want her acceptance. I need her to see the real me. I hope to get her to read up on cross-dressing and hopefully one day she will see that this is something deep inside of me - not something that I can change at all. We may need to go to counselling in the future if this matter does not move forward. We do love each other very much and she knows me more than anyone else on the planet, so hopefully this will work out eventually.
My first marriage was already down the drain before she caught me, and of course, disapproved 1,000%. So after that quick divorce, I started dating. I decided to man-up and let my girlfriends know. Well, good thing, because none of them were having any part of it and those would have been a disaster if I had gotten deeply involved. Then I met my wife. When we dated I brought up my love for pantyhose, especially on her. Curiously she asked if I ever worn them and of course I did not lie. She wanted to see. I obliged and it was pure pleasure for the past 30 years!
We need a like button for Julie C's post.
Your tale of disclosure is not all that different than what many here have presented. What is also similar is your ongoing dream that she will somehow come across to your side of the fence. She will see you, accept you, participate. I'm not all that confident that this will happen. Counseling will help her to come around to your POV? Am I understanding what you are saying, that counseling will make her a willing and loving participant in your fantasy???
Read what Julie has written. Show some empathy for your wife's point of view and get rid of your unrealistic dreams of what bliss means to you. Showing a spine as Tracii is talking about means that you need to assert yourself with honesty to find a place where your desires can co-exist without throwing it in her face if at all possible. If someday she comes around to something more, terrific. But once you let go of that notion and have acceptable boundaries in place, you are likely to be much more at peace.
If showing a spine means asserting yourself to being able to wear lingerie at will in your castle (as you are the king, right?), then don't be surprised if your queen chooses to vacate the premises.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
I always wondered about what are the wives thinking when they use the term "am I not enough for you?" or "why do you crossdress when you have a woman right in front of you?"
I guess they don't realize its got nothing to do with them not being woman enough but why is it they think that way?
Most guys if a woman is not enough personality wise or even sexually up to par he would break up or just stop dating her not all of a sudden start CDing because of it. Kind of silly when you think about it.
When one of the ladies I dated years ago asked me all those standard questions of why I crossdressed I told her, then she actually got it and understood it had nothing to do with her or anything she did.
Traci, I think everyone wants to be wanted to 100% percent total. ow I think thats probably not true 99% of the time but ego says that is what most people want...any conflict to that like dressing, looking at pron, staring a girl in the mall, etc etc is a threat and men often have the same issue. I have made some mistakes in my marriage but I love my wife 100% , but society tells us if I made mistakes or kept a secret (ding) then I must not love her.
No regrets except I should have got dressed & stepped out sooner.
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