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Thread: Crossdressing v Transgender

  1. #26
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    I'm going to use MtF example here:

    Imagine every MtF TS was born with a female body.

    Now every Transexuals mind and body match so what are they? They're just women and therefore wouldn't be considered in a spectrum. Does anyone disagree with that logic?

    In real life when a MtF TS transitions and changes their body to match their mind they also don't belong on a spectrum they are just women. So in theory every CDer that thinks a transitioned TS woman is on a spectrum with them doesn't see them as women which begs the question is it a form of transphobia?

    To me when someone says I belong to a spectrum that includes fetishists and Drag queens what I hear is this:
    "I don't believe you are female, your identity is unimportant to me you are a man and will always be a man who crossdressers full-time"
    It's incredibly hurtful and why I believe so many TS turn their back on the Trans community.

    At some point an inbetweener or Gender fluid will question this and again I say imagine if a Gender fluid MtF was born female......they would still be Gender fluid just FtM gender fluid.
    So the Gender fluid is still on the spectrum but where am I? Oh yeah that's right I'm off living my life normally because having been born with a female body I have no gender issues so will never need to even think of this.
    When you reverse the body situation it makes the idea of TS being in the spectrum false.
    In my opinion.
    Last edited by becky77; 07-01-2016 at 02:35 AM.

  2. #27
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    It may take a lifetime, but it always gets down to knowing in your bones that you are a woman, which for the ten-thousandth time is a feeling that cannot be explained to someone who doesn't feel it. I think if you spend years relentlessly testing this perception of yourself, whether by introspection, research or psychotherapy; and beat yourself up with shame and guilt, sometimes ruining your health, in a vain attempt to paper over the gaping hole in your life, you are not a recreational cross-dresser, Bunky.

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  3. #28
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    (Repost .... Hit send too soon!)

    No, DeeAnn. I exhibit a range of behavior and expression. Some of it is characteristically male and some female. Gender can be regarded as a spectrum, but as a sociological concept its meaning is misunderstood in a trans context.

    I used to describe myself in spectrum terms, matrices even. In fact, I hadn't figured out what was going on and was trying to conceptualize what turned out to be symptoms and manifestations. TS typically lose the need for gendered expression per se when they get past discovery (often in crisis). Dressing pre-transition frequently stops and, as Misty and others have indicated, many never really did much anyway. There might be NO cross-gendered expression at all. No interest in it, no need for it ... yet there is still an incredible need to transition. (That alone should give anyone pause). GD, too, as understood by most, also diminishes or disappears. There is a need to be and to be seen for what you are, but gendered expression assumes its normal place, which is social alignment and preference.

    In a similar vein, I had a period where I had a strong sense of being female. I've written extensively about it here. It's pretty much gone, the only trace being a sense of same-sex attraction to women. I've attributed its diminishment to habituation, mostly because I could still consciously evoke it, but that's gone, too. One doesn't create a sense of their sex any more than their sexuality. I don't feel it (being female) ... but I know it. And gender per se is a secondary implication and not truly an identity.

    So when I hear things like xx% thus and xx% that, it doesn't make sense or resonate any longer. At all. That doesn't mean I don't believe those who say such things or even that such things might exhibit over ranges. It does, however, mark an essential difference.

    One last thing. The concept of spectra is useful, but even so, boundaries often define concrete differences, including defining distinct entities and phenomena. Eliminating the essence and foundation of uniqueness by reducing it to a lowest common denominator also erases it.
    Last edited by LeaP; 07-01-2016 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Incomplete
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue View Post
    No ones personality should change from presentation unless they are faking something (fetish?) or holding back (pre-transition TS). So you dress some of the time.... That sounds like a CD comfortable with themselves actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    I don't think so. Many Crossdressers here have said that their female persona is a different person; implying that there is a distinct change. When they cross the gender boundary, they become someone else. That is not the case for me. It is hard to quantify, but I would guess that my persona is roughly 70%/30%, male to female. That is independent of presentation.
    I do think so. Thank you for stating you feel 70/30. I accept that. So in expressing your feminine side, you are working with a part of you. That isn't changing your personality. If someone is decidedly male and they act female, they are changing their personality. So this becomes something else other than exploring their gender identity. They are exploring expression, diving into fetish behavior, role playing, etc... They can pick one or another, but you can't be 100% male and explore the feminine part of yourself. Now we could throw a grenade in here and talk about whether gender norms are good or not and everything blurs....

  5. #30
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    Hi All,

    Wow!!! ... A lot of great thoughts being put forward in this thread!!!!... I feel the only spectrum we are on is the one all people are on! I think everyone cis, trans...whoever, has some mix of what is regarded as male and female characteristics. It's when the mix is far out of proportion with the birth body that the mind seeks some adjustment/alignment...

    The psych industry is all about the search for the right box to place people in.. Once they find the box they feel is the right one, they can declare what the patient is and treat them in the manner that the wisdom of the day prescribes...Everyone does this to some degree as well. The mind is always seeking pigeon holes to place complex concepts about people into more mentally digestible groupings... For good or for bad, such is our nature.

    The important part is that in the end each of us is the only one that really knows exactly what is inside us. I use an analogy when I do public speaking engagements that I am the only one that must live inside this house of flesh that I was given... If I want to have the outside renovated and have the house re-plumbed...so be it!!!!

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  6. #31
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    Lea, your last post was one of the most helpful and illuminating I've read on this site to date. Thank you.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue View Post
    I do think so. Thank you for stating you feel 70/30. I accept that. So in expressing your feminine side, you are working with a part of you. That isn't changing your personality. If someone is decidedly male and they act female, they are changing their personality. So this becomes something else other than exploring their gender identity. They are exploring expression, diving into fetish behavior, role playing, etc... They can pick one or another, but you can't be 100% male and explore the feminine part of yourself. Now we could throw a grenade in here and talk about whether gender norms are good or not and everything blurs....
    To carry that a bit further, I remember the first time that I read a post here about this change as one crossed the gender boundary. I had to re-read it as it was just foreign to my experience. Then I thought maybe there was something wrong or odd about how I experienced things. But the telling point for me was this. People also readily referred to their female persona in the third person. I never liked doing that as, to me, it isn't 2 separate personas. The only time that I do make such a reference is when there is a specific purpose or meaning to be conveyed. It is not routine on my part.

    Note that 70/30 is purely a guess on my part. I don't know of any specific way to quantify this, but it feels like an upper limit. It's possible that it could be 80/20 or 90/10, but it definitely isn't 100/0 or 0/100.

    Over the last 6 days, I've been to a total of 4 events and meetings presenting, and introducing myself, as DeeAnn. When I was working, that would have been the max for a month. Since my time is more flexible now, as long as there is sufficient time to camp and de-camp (in the original sense of the word), it works out well.

    One final point regarding loss of identity as has been mentioned here. As soon as you say Transgender to the population at large, the first thought means transition. I think that is the majority opinion that people have from what they see in the press. Folks hear Transgender and they think Janet Mock, the Wachowskis, Laverne Cox, Caitlyn Jenner, etc. What that says, in a practical sense, is that everyone else under the umbrella would have their identities usurped, not Transsexuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaP View Post
    So when I hear things like xx% thus and xx% that, it doesn't make sense or resonate any longer. At all. That doesn't mean I don't believe those who say such things or even that such things might exhibit over ranges. It does, however, mark an essential difference.
    The numbers have to do more with my education as an engineer. I am conditioned to understand information numerically. And, as I said, I don't know of any specific way to quantify this. Intuitively the thought is "something more than half" as the perspective and influence of the male part is larger. But, it also allows that the perspective and influence of the female part is significant. 70/30 seemed like a convenient way of describing this.

    I would think that the sole difference in how you view 70/30, compared to how I view it, is in the difference in perspective. If we consider male/female, your world is more like 0/100. For me, that would represent losing the male part (speaking psychologically and not physically) and I wouldn't like that. But, I am equally sure that 100/0 wouldn't work either as DeeAnn occupies a particular part of my being and that would also constitute a major loss.

    DeeAnn
    Last edited by flatlander_48; 07-01-2016 at 11:43 AM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    You seem to subscribe to the binary construct, so explain this. I am not a Crossdresser and don't have enough dysphoria to consider transitioning.
    Binary? Well there's only two choices on a birth certificate so that's kind of what we all deal with, subscription or not.

    If you are a man with a male name and identity and you wear women's clothes for the express purpose of changing your appearance than you are by definition a cross dresser. I don't understand your insistence that you're not. The very fact that you assign any value at all to dressing like a woman pretty much makes the argument that you are indeed a cross dresser, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't personally understand the power of the panties, but that's none of my business.

    Gender queer folks don't have two names, they aren't closeted to any degree.


    I would posit that those who Crossdress and eventually transition were never really Crossdressers to begin with.
    well that's not exactly a groundbreaking position, ..and it also directly contradicts your spectrum argument


    That sounds very dismissive. Was that your intent?
    Well, I don't know that 'dismissive' is pejorative in that sense. Do CD's play dress up or not? I know when I first discovered cross dressing back in 2008/09 I was absolutely playing dress up. It was great fun for about a year until suddenly it wasn't fun anymore. The realization that I was escaping my life by playing dress up and pretending to be someone else hit me like a ton of bricks. So I faced my demons and stopped cross dressing. A few months later I was seeing a therapist.

    Cross dressing dudes have a gender problem for sure. I don't know what it is, I don't pretend to understand it, but they are definitely on some kind of spectrum. TS (the way we define it here) people are definitely binary in their feelings. When I was a little boy who wanted to be a little girl, those feelings did not manifest in wearing mom's clothes. Maybe if my sister would have been 2 years older instead of 2 years younger things would have been different. I don't really care. The point is, I thought Pinocchio was crazy for wanting to be a boy. I didn't wish to be somewhere in the middle, I wished I was a girl. I knew my body didn't match the other girls, it never occurred to me that my clothes were part of the problem.
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  9. #34
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    Well, as just a normal, boring old cross dresser, I have some input here:

    Quote Originally Posted by KymberlyOct View Post
    ... regarding cross-dressing vs transgender. She said that the current belief of many in the Psych community is that being transgender and being a cross-dresser are not two separate things but are now considered to be just different points along the same spectrum. ...
    I have long maintained that I am not transgender just because I am a cross dresser. I'm a man. I never think I am not a man, regardless of attire. And isn't that the nature of transgender? The not knowing or knowing you are incorrectly gendered? I'm just a poser. I don't want to be a woman, but for some really odd reason (which I attribute to genetics only) i like to appear as a woman from time to time. To me, that is so much weirder than being trans. I think that is why the normals can handle Caitlyn Jenner but still be confused by cross dressers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    .. When I told my therapist that I didn't think I was really transexual because of that, she said this: "that doesn't mean you're not a woman inside, it just means that you're not a cross dresser". Then she went on to explain something that made perfect sense, which was women's clothes have nothing to do with being a woman.

    Women know this. CD's do not.
    I agree with your therapist, but SOME CD's know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by arbon View Post
    ... One CD from this forum had a pleasant dinner with a month or so ago he is definitely a man and has no confusion or uncertainty about his identity. And I have none about mine as a woman ....
    That's me! It was nice meeting you Teresa and I, too, have no confusion as to who you are. You are women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena View Post
    ... Do they not wear female clothes to feel feminine? Are they wearing female clothing to confirm their manliness? ....
    Yes and no to your two questions but that has nothing to do with a spectrum. I think the telling part of this is how few transwomen actually cross dressed or did so rarely. And when they did, they report that it didn't make them feel "right." That can't be more opposite from the cross dresser experience.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KymberlyOct View Post
    being transgender and being a cross-dresser are not two separate things but are now considered to be just different points along the same spectrum.
    Isn't that what we have been saying on this iste for years?

    It's the factions here that keep separating the two
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    It's the factions here that keep separating the two
    Indeed, the pattern continues. Same pattern seen in all aspects of life.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Binary? Well there's only two choices on a birth certificate so that's kind of what we all deal with, subscription or not.
    That's for legal purposes and originally was solely based on plumbing. It says nothing about ones psychological state. And you know what, even if I were to transition and have every kind of surgery you can name, my birth certificate would STILL read M. I am from one of those states that will not change the gender marker unless some sort of mistake was made (such as the doctor or nurse thought M, but wrote F). They will NOT make allowances for gender affirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    If you are a man with a male name and identity and you wear women's clothes for the express purpose of changing your appearance than you are by definition a cross dresser. I don't understand your insistence that you're not.
    You're oversimplifying this. Presentation is not the sole factor. Crossdressers identify strictly as male (I do not). They do not have significant parts of their being that are female (but I do). Crossdressers have a mental transformation when presenting as female compared to male (I do not). MANY Crossdressers are completely closeted (I am not). They do not present themselves in public before large groups of the general population (I have). You said that Crossdressers dress up to do house work (but I have never done that). Crossdressers don't out themselves to co-workers (I did before I retired). Even the mayor of Cathedral City knows me as DeeAnn and not Don. These are NOT the thought processes, behaviors and activities of Crossdressers, so I don't understand your insistence that I am. Surely at some point these differences have to tip the scales. It's perfectly fine that Crossdressers do their thing as they see fit. It is a different set of needs that have to get satisfied. However, as it applies to me, there are significant differences in thoughts, behaviors and activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    The very fact that you assign any value at all to dressing like a woman pretty much makes the argument that you are indeed a cross dresser, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't personally understand the power of the panties, but that's none of my business.
    Sorry, that sounds like an elitist attitude and it doesn't make the argument. Evidently the time that I am able to spend as DeeAnn is sufficient (as I know now, but that is not to say it is set in stone) to keep a reasonable balance in my life. For me, there is no "power of the panties". It is just another element that goes towards creating the whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Gender queer folks don't have two names, they aren't closeted to any degree.
    And you would know that how? Anecdotally or by hard information? What's your measure here? For me, my wife knows. My daughter and son know. 7-8 close friends know. The last department manager I had knew. The vast majority of people I've met here in Cathedral City know DeeAnn and not Don. What you said is completely arbitrary and of no substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    well that's not exactly a groundbreaking position, ..and it also directly contradicts your spectrum argument.
    It has to do with misunderstanding or maybe even a misdiagnosis. That has nothing to do with the spectrum concept. I would liken what you said to people who originally identified as bisexual, but eventually figured out that they were actually gay. Easing up on denial and suppression usually does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Well, I don't know that 'dismissive' is pejorative in that sense. Do CD's play dress up or not? I know when I first discovered cross dressing back in 2008/09 I was absolutely playing dress up. It was great fun for about a year until suddenly it wasn't fun anymore. The realization that I was escaping my life by playing dress up and pretending to be someone else hit me like a ton of bricks. So I faced my demons and stopped cross dressing. A few months later I was seeing a therapist.
    Two things: I don't play dress up and I'm not pretending to be someone that I'm not. There is only one persona, regardless of presentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Cross dressing dudes have a gender problem for sure. I don't know what it is, I don't pretend to understand it, but they are definitely on some kind of spectrum. TS (the way we define it here) people are definitely binary in their feelings.
    To sum up, the way I interpret your view is that it seems to be either complete mismatch or none at all. Crossdressers say that they are male identified, which would be 100%/0%. As a female identified Transsexual, you would be essentially 0/100. All I'm saying is that there are points in between those extremes.

    DeeAnn

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    You seem to subscribe to the binary construct, so explain this. I am not a Crossdresser and don't have enough dysphoria to consider transitioning.
    DeeAnn
    If you're not a crossdresser, then what are you? Everyone has either a male identity, a female identity, or a non-binary gender identity. I'm assuming by your own descriptions of yourself, that you're some type of non-binary or genderqueer? If so, what sub-type under the huge non-binary umbrella do you specifically identify yourself as? Bigender? Genderfluid? Something else? And how did you come to that conclusion?

    I personally have a very binary view of gender, so I find it difficult to fully grasp the non-binary identities, but I'm interested in trying to understand them as best I can.

  14. #39
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    The thing is, if gender is ones INTERNAL interpretation and not trying to fit some EXTERNAL construct, I don't see why there cannot be variation.

    I would not describe how I feel beyond non-binary. To my interpretation, I am not a Crossdresser, neither am I a Transsexual. I think anything beyond saying non-binary gets into very fine distinctions that may be only useful for clinicians. The only other thing that I would add is that I have no sense of fluidity. My persona is a relatively stable combination of male and female. That has not changed and is certainly not tied to presentation.

    I won't duplicate what I've written in other messages on these 2 pages, but I will add this. What I remember early on was the lack of hesitation, shame and guilt. Somewhere above I said that the shame and guilt I had could be measured in minutes and likely single digits at that. About that time I ran across posts about people having serious issues with shame and guilt and how some never really got over that after years. So, that was my first clue that this sat in a very different place for me. Later on I came to realize that how I thought and what I did was VERY different from what Crossdressers here have written. The second paragraph in Post #37 lists differences that came to me quickly, so there may be a few more. To me, there are just too many things that are distinctly different.

    Also, I believe the concept of bisexuality is a good parallel in the sense that it is an internal interpretation of ones sexual attractions. There is strong homosexual preference, weak homosexual preference and equal preference in regards to a gross description. All represent a combination. For example, if you have a strong homosexual preference, there is a weak heterosexual preference. Equal implies an even split between homosexual and heterosexual preferences. And, there are many incremental points along the way. I understand this as I am also bisexual. To me it is about variation and not absolutes.

    DeeAnn
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-02-2016 at 03:00 AM.

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    DeeAnn You have a strong sense of who you are and I think that is admirable. Many people spend their entire lives trying to figure it out and never do. As tgirlamc mentions people are always wanting to pigeon hole everyone and everything. You certainly don't fit in a pigeon hole regarding your gender identity or sexuality. I for one think that is great. You know who you are and you are comfortable in your own skin.

    I posted this thread to see what we thought as a community knowing that it would incite some strong responses from both perspectives. My intention was not to be a provocateur I really wanted to get some insight as to thoughts throughout the community and they are obviously quite varied. I posted this leaning toward my therapist's opinion of a gender spectrum but I did not have a strong conviction. As I read initial replies I was swayed toward the more binary construct. ( I tend to see a lot of gray in the world instead of black and white - probably too much) I look at both sides of an issue possibly to a fault.

    After reading the many replies I am back to my original leaning that my opinion is that there is a gender spectrum to some degree. I am about to state the obvious but to make a point. On a spectrum there are of course the extreme ends of that spectrum. In this case it would be those that identify intensely with either gender and that is their truth. However for those that are somewhere else on that spectrum why can that not be their truth? Who are we to know what is in their mind, heart and soul?

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    Kym do you class cis men and women on that spectrum too?
    Is the spectrum based on identity or expression as the two are different?
    Does a cis man with a fetish for animal costumes share the same spectrum as a cis man with a fetish for female costumes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KymberlyOct View Post
    I look at both sides of an issue possibly to a fault.
    You ARE a Libra Sis!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    Kym do you class cis men and women on that spectrum too?
    Is the spectrum based on identity or expression as the two are different?
    Does a cis man with a fetish for animal costumes share the same spectrum as a cis man with a fetish for female costumes?
    As for cis men and women for me that is an easy one. The vast majority of people are at the far ends of the spectrum. That would be cis people.

    Identity versus expression IMHO and that's all it is 'opinion' - Identity is who you are, what you feel, how you think. Expression is simply what is in your comfort zone about what you want to show to the world about who you are. Some people are comfortable showing the world who they are and others are not.

    The example about fetishes such as animal costumes vs female costumes is apples and oranges. The concept of a gender spectrum - again I am claiming nothing about gender spectrum as fact - but the concept of a gender spectrum is about just that -gender. Maybe the same would hold true if the concept was fetishes about animal costumes.

    To go a step farther - I do think that for some CDs it is truly just a fetish. Something about shoes or dresses etc turns them on and that's fine. It is of course important to know for one's self what drives them - gender identity or sexual fetish. That is why I gave DeeAnn props. She has a handle on who she is.

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    The spectrum your therapist discussed includes cis men and cis women or is it a transgender spectrum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    I would not describe how I feel beyond non-binary. To my interpretation, I am not a Crossdresser, neither am I a Transsexual. I think anything beyond saying non-binary gets into very fine distinctions that may be only useful for clinicians. The only other thing that I would add is that I have no sense of fluidity. My persona is a relatively stable combination of male and female. That has not changed and is certainly not tied to presentation.
    I've heard this a number of times from other people who identify themselves as non-binary. They refuse the cross-dresser label, but they do say that they're transgender. And then when I ask if they're non-binary, they typically say "yes". But then when I ask them to get specific about it, they refuse to get into details. I just find it odd that those who identify as non-binary are so unwilling to label themselves as a specific sub-type. I get that everyone is unique in their own way, and I can accept that there are people who have non-binary gender identities, but I can't accept that 100 non-binary people will have 100 different gender identities. There's got to be some overlap there, right?

    Wouldn't some sort of labeling help others understand you better? And wouldn't it make it easier to find others similar to you? Just for practical purposes, it seems to make sense to me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirya View Post
    Everyone has either a male identity, a female identity, or a non-binary gender identity.
    I have none of those. I do not see myself as a crossdresser, and simultaneously, I have come to believe many in the community that I am not transsexual. Thus... I've no clue what I am. I do not see myself as having a male, female, or even non-binary identity though.

    Then again, lots of people think I'm too messed up to give any worthwhile answer. So, grain of salt and all that.
    Last edited by GBJoker; 07-01-2016 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Spelling, etc

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    I know it's human nature to classify things - that's what we do...colors: blue, red, orange; textures: soft, prickly, firm; taste: bitter, sweet, salty; emotion: happy, sad, mad, frustrated, bewildered; smell: stench, fragrant; socioeconomic status: rich, poor or somewhere in between; education: high school, associates degree, BA/BS, graduate degree, professional degree; state of matter: liquid, solid, gas, plasma; the list is infinite. But considering just how complex we are as human beings especially as it relates to the intersection between gender and sexuality do we really need to classify ourselves across this arc? Or maybe it's just a place to start. I think it's best just to share all the dimensions of one's nature and treat each person as a unique individual rather than trying to pigeon hole each of us into some artificial construct. And how I feel about myself regarding my gender shifts...after all we're living, breathing and dynamic organisms. I don't like it when someone thinks I'm this way or that. I'm a rational person and I know myself better than anyone else. And if I cannot fully understand myself and I never will b/c I'm constantly processing and assimilating new information and adjusting accordingly while maintaining certain inalienable principles at heart (justice, fairness, freedom of expression/speech, rule of law, human rights, etc) how can anyone else understand me unless I have a close, constant, transparent and honest dialogue with them? And it's only through that incessant conversation that someone can really begin to know you and grow with you as each of you changes and evolves over time.
    Last edited by nikkiwindsor; 07-01-2016 at 06:54 PM.
    Wearing my fuschia bodycon dress:
    http://imgur.com/6WkdAts
    For the first time, outdoors during the day:
    http://i.imgur.com/RmjIxbY.jpg

  23. #48
    Aspiring Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    765
    After a lifetime of crossdressing and finally admitting to myself my gender identity is askew (I love Katey's "wobbly gender compass" euphemism), I have no idea if there's a nice category to put myself in. As a kid there were times I really wished I was a girl, but I never felt I was a girl. Remember the book Are you there God, it's me Margaret?? I probably read it 10 times wishing at times I could be like Margaret. But I was never unhappy having boy parts. I crossdressed whenever I could, stopped during high school, and started again after. Early 20's I sometimes wanted to transition. Or at least liked the idea of it. Yes there was a sexual component to CD'ing that's pretty much gone now. It was never a fun frivolity filled exercise, it was something I was compelled to do. There was no fetish over clothing, but I LIKED how I looked in heels and skirts, and I liked wearing hosiery. I still do.

    So now after admitting to myself and my wife my gender ID is not cis, I have nagging in my head over gender identity. I'm not depressed or anxious or mad about being a guy. But I feel a deep innate need to present as a female. I like putting on makeup and a wig and how I look when I do so. If I had my druthers I would live that way sometimes, but not all the time. I get some sense of positive feeling when I look in the mirror, though I'm not so jazzed about my guyness showing through. It's not a lark, I don't wear a French maid outfit and dust the lampshades. I want to look blendable. If there were no external restrictions on how I presented, I would probably pick in the middle, so if I wanted to present either way, I could do so easily and blend.

    I would love to have my nails done and ears pierced. It makes sense to me that BT says the accoutrements of womanhood have no special meaning to her. I think for me they do because I'm not a woman, I'm somewhere in between in my gender ID, so they are symbolism of that side. Not sure though.

    So a nice easy box to fit myself into? Not seeing it. If I had to guess on my gender ID ratio? 50:50, but that's a swag.

    I also see some absolute thinking or categorization in this thread, and on this forum in general. I find it hard to believe there are NO TS folks that actually were cross dressers and truly identified as such, and then changed or evolved and determined they were TS. I see strong opinions posted from a few TS peeps that in summary state "always a woman, born into wrong body, medical issue, had to fix". I'm not discounting anyone's belief in that regard, and I accept you as women. When I read your posts, my subconscious identifies you as women. But I am saying that to project your experience on every TS woman out there seems myopic. I try not project my TG wobbly compass experience on every CD out there. I get there are some, many that don't have a gender ID issue and just like wearing women's clothes, or it's a turn on for them. And there's a ton of variety in between.

    Just my wobbly compassed opinion .
    Last edited by Nikki.; 07-01-2016 at 06:46 PM. Reason: spelling

  24. #49
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,382
    I've love to see this become a TS forum someday ...
    Lea

  25. #50
    Aspiring Member Georgette_USA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Washington, DC Area - Maryland
    Posts
    778
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikki_P View Post
    I also see some absolute thinking or categorization in this thread, and on this forum in general. I find it hard to believe there are NO TS folks that actually were cross dressers and truly identified as such, and then changed or evolved and determined they were TS.
    I may have identified as a CD early on, in the 50-60s, because there was very little to be found on the TS idea. When I was found out in the military in 1972, still used that identity.

    It wasn't until after that in 1974 and was able to read some and met CDs that I knew that wasn't just what I was. Also found others like me, and some that were transitioning like myself and some that had transitioned already. Even then there was very little on the subject. Dr Benjamin wrote his book on that. There were only a few to read about prior. It was not in the DSM II at that time, it only identified the TV ID.

    After that I realized what I was and had a course of action to proceed. Not sure I really truly identified as a CD, but there wasn't any other idea prior.

    What you see now are all products of those early times, and the dawn of the Usenet/Internet.

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