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Thread: What is a mixed-gender identity?

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    What is a mixed-gender identity?

    This is a tangent from the bathroom discussion in the sticky. But please, this thread is not about which bathrooms to use, it is only about how people might identify if they DO NOT identify as either men or women.

    So it turns out that we don’t precisely know what "mixed-gender" identity means, and I would appreciate some feedback in order to make the other discussion easier.

    The question:
    If some of you do not fundamentally identify as either male or female but you instead identify as mixed-gender, would you also include just a short note about how you live. Do you work as a man or as a woman; do you dress as a woman all the time or occasionally; do you spend all, half, or a small percentage of your time dressed with your wife, family, & friends; do you dress primarily alone.

    To repeat, I’m curious to know if any of you identify as "mixed-gender" (fundamentally NEITHER male NOR female), and how would you present at work, with your wives, parents, with your friends, etc.

    (If you are NOT mixed-gender, if you do identify fundamentally male or female, then please indicate whether or not you have, are, or plan to transition. Thanks).


    Part 2 of the question (optional):
    Also, if any of you have knowledge of other groups of people who would not identify as either male or female, then please feel free to share your views.

    One such group that I am familiar with (there may be many more), are predominately young people, but their point is we should all be a lot more relaxed about gender presentation and we should blur both genders together. It's a rejection of the social construct of gender and it is certainly more popular in this generation than past generations. These young people don't really switch their presentation back and forth according to how well accepted they might be in any given situation, they rather pick a look and stick to it no matter where they go. So this would be the young men who unabashedly present feminine without attempting to mask the fact they are natal males, and the young women who unabashedly present masculine without attempting to mask the fact they are natal females.
    Reine

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    I've lived in an area with a significant LGBT population for 5 months now and I doubt if I've seen 10 people such as you describe. Personally, I'm guessing it is a very small population; at least in these parts anyway.

    I describe my identity as a combination of male and female. I don't like "mixed" as it seems to imply something of no particular definition to me (you take This, add some of That and the result is Something Else). Anyway, I would be in the grey area between Crossdresser and Transsexual and have no plans to transition. I am not fluid and my persona does not change as a function of presentation. There is only one persona with very very slight differences (such as DeeAnn might smile a bit more than Don, but not significantly so). I do not mix presentations which is my interpretation of the images shown. As I've said elsewhere, the split for me would be roughly 70%/30%, male/female. To use fractions, say 2/3, 1/3. However, there is no science to this. It is purely based on how it feels to me. One of the ways the male/female split shows is that I am predominately intuitive in how I approach things (life, people, problem solving). This is very unusual for someone educated as an engineer and functioned in that profession for over 40 years. I have no problem with using logic, but my default is intuition and logic is used in support of that.

    In the past week DeeAnn went to a Lesbian and Trans fund raiser, a Trans Pride evening and a committee meeting that I chair. Yesterday Don went to Lowe's and Wal-Mart. Had I been dressed for some other reason, I would have gone shopping as DeeAnn. It doesn't make much difference to me. As long as I am able to maintain a suitable balance in the time spent as DeeAnn compared to Don, it's OK. I would probably go out more as DeeAnn except that preparation takes some time. There is no such thing as "light makeup" for me as it just doesn't cover enough. However, last October I outted myself publicly; dressed in front of ~130 people and later by photo to another 70+.

    I retired at the end of last January. I never went to work as DeeAnn. While my employer had transitioning policies (which I had some part in as a member of our LGBT employee affinity group), there were no provisions for alternating presentations. In my view, there didn't seem to be an upside for me anyway. At home I dress about 50% of the time, neck down. My 2nd wife knows and has always been supportive. My daughter and son know and have seen photos. Purposefully, I have not told my father or stepmother (my mother passed away 25+ ago). My father is 90 and I see no upside. So far, I have only been to LGBT related functions here. If I were to go to primarily a straight function, not sure what I'd do. I guess I'll know when I get there.

    I don't know of a specific group that has been particularly created for the group you describe. When I lived in New York State, there was a group called Genessee Valley Gender Variants (in western New York State). It was a pretty broad based group as the name implies, so the constituency mentioned might be there. I don't of any specific group like that here in the Coachella Valley.

    DeeAnn

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    DeeAnn, I used the term "mixed-gender" because it was used in the other thread, but basically it is a word that in my understanding means NOT just male or just female (ever), but some combination of both all the time in such a way that the person who identifies this way presents as a combination of both at the same time ... like the young people I mention who do reject all social constructs of stereotypical masculine and feminine expression. I live in a college town and there are a fair number of young people like that, whether these young people are same-sex or opposite-sex attracted. But honestly I don't see anyone past their 20s who present this way.


    Back to you, you did say this does not apply to you because in your case, you are 70/30 male/female. Is this reflected in the amount of time you dress, meaning are you in male mode about 70% of the time, and about 30% of the time in female mode? And at home, there is a significant portion of the time (50%) when you do present male, in other words you do not have an inherent need to identify as a woman and to strictly identify and live as a woman permanently?

    Last question ... have you structured your life this way because it is your choice?
    Reine

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    I have heard a similar term before called two-spirit, I would say I fall into that category based on what I have read. I always present male except for the few people that know I crossdress to express my other half. I have worked on trying to meld both sides with some success which has made it easier than having them completely separate. I have not met any others but since two-spirit comes from the native American tribes they do exist.

    Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    DeeAnn, I used the term "mixed-gender" because it was used in the other thread, but basically it is a word that in my understanding means NOT just male or just female (ever), but some combination of both all the time in such a way that the person who identifies this way presents as a combination of both at the same time ... like the young people I mention who do reject all social constructs of stereotypical masculine and feminine expression. I live in a college town and there are a fair number of young people like that, whether these young people are same-sex or opposite-sex attracted. But honestly I don't see anyone past their 20s who present this way.
    Yes, the handful of people I've seen were roughly of college age. This would have been in Corning, Geneva and Rochester, NY. I've seen a few more here, but it seems that the LGBT population is more of an adult demographic. My comment about "mixed" is a personal preference. Rarely would I say Mixed Race. I would say Combined Heritage, for example. Anyway, for the people I've seen, many times it isn't clear what the point was. It could be androgeny. It could be Gender ****. It could be rejecting social stereotyping, as you said. Unless I actually talked to someone, I'd be hard pressed to understand what they were attempting to do. Interesting, but unclear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    Back to you, you did say this does not apply to you because in your case, you are 70/30 male/female. Is this reflected in the amount of time you dress, meaning are you in male mode about 70% of the time, and about 30% of the time in female mode?
    It has to do with how my mind works all the time and my interests. It is mostly male, as shown by the ~70%, but the ~30% represents a significant female part. If you wanted to discuss the hybrid power units they are using in Formula 1, I can do that. If you wanted to talk about Fit & Flare dresses, peplums or ruching, not only in terms of what it is, but in terms of what it is intended to do, I can do that also. In terms of mental processes, there isn't a Don and a DeeAnn. That is virtually the same between them. It would take someone who was well acquainted with both, my wife for example, to notice the subtleties.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    And at home, there is a significant portion of the time (50%) when you do present male, in other words you do not have an inherent need to identify as a woman and to strictly identify and live as a woman permanently?
    I am 67 and all of this, in terms of sorting out how things sat for me, happened in the last 12 to 18 months. I don't think I need to live all the time as a female. The ~30% would need to be much higher as I would view people who are, or have transitioned, as virtually 0%/100%. On the other hand, the ~30% does indicate that it is important to me to include a female identity with the near exclusive male identity that I thought I used to have (back in the days of denial). So true, I don't have a need to identify as female completely, but what I know now is that I can't ignore it as I did in the past. Also, I have noticed once or twice when I was not able to dress and go out for an extended period, it didn't feel good. There was some background noise (figuratively speaking) that only went away when I was finally able to go out.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    Last question ... have you structured your life this way because it is your choice?
    Hard to say; chicken or the egg. I think there wasn't a conscious thought process. I never sat down and thought about I need to dress and be out X number of times per week. I think was happened was that I kind of backed into it. This goes back to that balance that I mentioned. At some point I think I realized that "Oh, I seem to going out about Y times per week. That feels pretty good. That's probably a bit more than the bare minimum that I need.". That thought process would have been after the fact, when I was still in NYS. In recent times, since I've retired and moved, I'm beyond that minimum. Kind of like if some is good, more is better.

    I'll admit that ego and vanity won't really let me go out half-assed. The time spent preparing and being out has, so far, not been oppressive. Also, so far it seems that the 70/30 split seems stable. Once I noticed it, I realized that it had really been like that for a l-o-n-g time; perhaps even the beginning. There haven't been any feelings of I need more of this or less of that. I realize that things can always change, but it feels pretty good right now.

    DeeAnn

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    Silver Member Sometimes Steffi's Avatar
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    While I was at Keystone Conference 2016, I went to an LGBTQ-friendly church (where Q means queer) in Harrisburg on Sunday. I was introduced to about a dozen young people (I would say roughly the age of teenagers). Almost all of them were what I would label queer, and you would probably call mixed gender.

    In all honestly, I couldn't really tell what gender would have been on their birth certificate nor which gender they were presenting. Like wearing makeup, but having short hair with gel styling that could have been female or male with a twist. So, that's what I think of when I think of mixed gender: a combination of male and female characteristics presented simultaneously.

    Maybe you can call it not trying to pass by mixing gender stereotypes.

    Here's some Google pictures to look at

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...:woman&imgrc=_

    Some are self-identified as queer, som I would consider queer. Open some of the pics and look at the related pics.
    Hi, I'm Steffi and I'm a crossdresser... And I accept and celebrate both sides of me. Or, maybe I'm gender fluid.

    Gender fluid (adj.) - Describes a person whose gender identity is not fixed. A person who is gender fluid may always feel like a mix of the two traditional genders, but may feel [more] like one gender some days, and [more like] another gender other days.

    Ref: https://www.lgbthealtheducation.org/wp-content/uploads/LGBT-Glossary_March2016.pdf

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    Gold Member Dana44's Avatar
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    Reine as you know i am gender fluid. But my look always is androgynous. I dress typically male when working out at the club. I am male part of the week and fem part of the week. sometimes i am in fem mode dressed as a male and feel uncomfortable that way. One time I was fem and we are at a restaurant and i was dressed very feminine and i switched back to male and was uncomfortable. So it sometimes happens both ways. I sometimes feel that my biorhythm is the driver of the brain switch. but i know that sometimes physical things like scuba diving and other stuff like that causes a switch.
    But I like writing in male or fem mode and being creative seems to be in either of those modes.
    I will not transition totally I will always be pre-op, but I don't know how far i am going. But breast development is in progress and it is kinda working. I am now more fem than male. Hench the time I have to wear male clothes.
    Part Time Girl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sometimes Steffi View Post
    Maybe you can call it not trying to pass by mixing gender stereotypes.

    Here's some Google pictures to look at

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...:woman&imgrc=_
    Right! That's what I have in mind when I think of someone who is mixed-gender ... no (or very little) difference in gender presentation, no difference in gender role, no difference in intellectual or job ability. And it definitely is a growing trend among young people. But, I don't think any of these young folks wish to transcend their birth sex. Likely the women still willingly mark F on gender boxes (and use the girls rooms), and the men still willingly mark M (and use the boys rooms). Their biggest complaint is the segregation of gendered stereotypes, socially and economically. They see both genders as having an equal voice and equal power, but I think they're OK with their respective male and female sex (and bodies).
    Reine

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    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Reine,
    I'm not sure if you will find older members of the TG community using the term, once we get into marriage and having kids , jobs and all the rest we either function as the natural male or dress in degrees of femininity, not unless we eventually want to transition.

    Looking back many of us went through a slight mixed gender look, I guess people like Mick Jagger set a standard of mixing clothes to give a blurred representation , I know my flares became way out and my long hair gave a mixed impression, but I was still all boy underneath and the girls knew that.

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    ReineD, I applaud the young people you describe in Part 2 of your question, wish it would become the norm for the rest and adult part of our society.

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    Are you possibly talking about "pan-sexual"? I heard this phrase recently and wondered what this meant. In googling it, I think it might be one in the same as mixed-gender.

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    Pansexual refers to somebody who is sexually attracted to all sexes and genders. It, like all sexualities, is separate from gender identity.
    Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    ReineD, I applaud the young people you describe in Part 2 of your question, wish it would become the norm for the rest and adult part of our society.
    Yes, me too! Power to the people of all genders, races, ethnicities, etc, and let everyone be equal! And the narrowing of gender-roles/presentation have increasingly become the norm, if you compare the gap between male/female gender-roles/expression today, to what it was in the 1950s. The young 'uns are just taking it one step further by having all the same haircuts and wearing all the same clothes.

    But I don't think they wish to appear or be seen as the opposite sex. They just want to emphasize there is no difference between men and women in terms of capability or value.
    Reine

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    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post

    The question:
    If some of you do not fundamentally identify as either male or female but you instead identify as mixed-gender, would you also include just a short note about how you live. Do you work as a man or as a woman; do you dress as a woman all the time or occasionally; do you spend all, half, or a small percentage of your time dressed with your wife, family, & friends; do you dress primarily alone.

    To repeat, I’m curious to know if any of you identify as "mixed-gender" (fundamentally NEITHER male NOR female), and how would you present at work, with your wives, parents, with your friends, etc.

    (If you are NOT mixed-gender, if you do identify fundamentally male or female, then please indicate whether or not you have, are, or plan to transition. Thanks).

    Hi Reine! Interesting post that I have been pondering. I do have a mixed gender identity. So how do I live..... which is then actually asking about my presentation?
    - I present as male at work
    - I dress in some female items everyday
    - I spend all of my time dressed the way I dress with my wife, my family, and my friends

    As to the general question with how I present at work, with my wife, friends, etc - I dress in an obvious mixed gender way.

    Feminine attributes - My nails are painted pretty much all of the time (fingers and toes.) I wear various female clothing items, mostly undershirts, jeans, and tennis shoes. I wear female jewelry, most notably my wedding ring, carry a female wallet, a female phone case, feminine smelling lotions, and occasionally one of my Coach purses.

    Masculine attributes - facial hair most of the time, voice (sound), body shape/build, shaved head/balding

    Mixed - (this is tougher to qualify and things that I see would be what might be typically associated with one gender or the other.) What I choose to talk about and the way I lift my tone at the end of my sentences. Things that I enjoy, like woodworking and hunting and canning fruit and creating goody baskets for our neighbors (who always think my wife is doing all the work.) Enjoying both tear jerking movies and high action shoot-em ups.

    So the above list of some of the attributes of mine are things that I do pretty much all of the time, everywhere, with everybody - work, friends, wife, throughout my day getting life done. And everybody takes me as a male. A different sort of male, but a male nonetheless. And I don't make any pretense about what gender my body obviously is.

    Maybe only a few times per year will I dress more masculine, and maybe I will dress more fully as a female (wig & makeup) a few times per month.

    As to transition - nope, no plans of this. I have however pondered how to be able to have more of a mixed presentation and have made more permanent moves towards that end. So in some ways I am transitioning but my end goal is not to live as a female.


    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    But, I don't think any of these young folks wish to transcend their birth sex. Likely the women still willingly mark F on gender boxes (and use the girls rooms), and the men still willingly mark M (and use the boys rooms). Their biggest complaint is the segregation of gendered stereotypes, socially and economically. They see both genders as having an equal voice and equal power...
    I agree with this section for the most part. I do wish there were more forms that I could mark transgender on, until then I mark male. Most of my life, I only use the male's restrooms. I will however use the ladie's if I am out, and dressed fully as a woman.
    Last edited by Nadine Spirit; 07-05-2016 at 10:30 PM.

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    Transgender Person Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    If some of you do not fundamentally identify as either male or female but you instead identify as mixed-gender, would you also include just a short note about how you live. Do you work as a man or as a woman; do you dress as a woman all the time or occasionally; do you spend all, half, or a small percentage of your time dressed with your wife, family, & friends; do you dress primarily alone.
    Not sure if I'm one of the droids you're looking for, but I do fit the spec of not identifying as completely male or completely female. And I get pretty angsty when forced to check a sex box. I'm seeing a gender counsellor, getting facial electrolysis and getting ready to start hormones, but have no interest in surgery because modifying my body to be anatomically correct for a woman would leave me in the same situation I am now -- sex doesn't match gender.

    How I live: at this point I'm virtually always wearing women's clothes. My nails are always done, I always have earrings in, my hair is long. I'm not sure how to answer the question about do I work as a man or as a woman. I'm a consultant and I work as me. If a client doesn't like me they won't hire me. When I'm in a position where I have to check a sex box I always check "Male" -- in my head I'm comfortable that sex is different than gender and I'm male sex. But, as you can guess from what I've said, I'm moving my presentation more toward the female because that presentation comforts me. What I tell the counsellor is that when I see that person looking back from the mirror I like her and I care about her and that had not been true when I saw the male reflection. But I doubt there will ever come a time when people can't tell I was born male and went through male puberty.

    Is that what you were asking?

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    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Reine, are you talking more about non binary type of identity? Personally, I feel I am sometimes not really either, but most often I feel a fairly solid mixture of both male and female gender. dual or gender fluid is likely a better term for me, although there have been times I just do not seem to really feel the "either" feeling. I think that if the either feeling took over, I would present as male as it would look better for me overall. Although as now, not in a strong masculine way, not really fem either, just regular male. I guess pretty much how I dress and present on a typical basis most of the time now.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

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