About passing and the acceptance from SOs

[Valery L]

Do you think it is easier to be accepted (and encouraged) by your SO if you look passable enough?

I do not know if this question has been asked before but I am interested in your answers. Personally, I think that might be somewhat true. I have the impression that if some hypothetical crossdresser can look pretty good dressed as a woman, the effort is evident and might be taken as something positive. Also, the image of a man making a ridicule representation of a woman and all the possible "offence" behind it, does not exist when that person actually looks and behaves like a "regular" woman. And also I think that the idea that the hypothetical crossdresser is simply some kind of pervert would not make much sense. I do not know how to interpret this, but in my personal experience with female friends, when I ask them about if they would be interested in someone like me, some of them have answered that if I look as good as in some pictures that I have shown them, then it might trigger some internal lesbian desires (even when they are hetero, or "hetero", I do not know), or they do not know why but they might consider it.

Also, and I think this might be another question, I do not know if maybe the acceptance might be related with the appearance of the hypothetical crossdresser. I think that if the crossdresser is kind of androgynous as a male, the possibility of being accepted by the SO is greater since initially she was attracted to some feminine features of him. Perhaps acceptance is harder when the crossdresser is so masculine looking in male mode and the contrast when he crossdresses is so big, in comparison with an androgynous crossdresser which does not change too much after dressing. I know that every case is different, but might it be true for a significant number of cases?, do you think there might be a pattern?

Best regards.

[Jenniferathome]

Some of your thoughts border on pure fantasy. Straight women want men and straight men want women. The idea that women have some "tendency" toward lesbianism is just male fantasy.

Now, on your question about greater acceptance if one were "passable," no, that does't matter. While it can make being out easier, wives accept us because they love us not because they like seeing us as a woman.

[Joan58]

Well put Jennifer. My wife loves me, our family and our home. As do I, She allows me to pursue this interest of mine because of that. Seeing me dressed up I am sure was never a fantasy of hers.

Joan

[Lana Mae]

Some tendency towards Lesbianism means they are bisexual not heterosexual!!! Women tend to love the person and the first impression of gender. Anything else tends to freak them out!! As you said every case is different and I do not believe there is any pattern evolving from this!! Just my 2 cents!! Hugs Lana Mae

[Meghan4now]

Hmm, a good question to which as the CD in the equation I am not qualified to answer.

Before you jump the gun, Jenn, I could fathom some potential amount of acceptability being driven by the "passability" factor. I think that possibly if the husband can do a better job, and not stick out like a sore thumb, then one or two of a wife's worries may be lessened. Primarily fear of standing out , being ridiculed or mistreated in public, or just the incongruent "ick" factor of certain male characteristics showing through. Beer belly, dark shadow, heavy brow. But I think this would be very dependant upon the individual wife.

Acceptability does not have to be sexual driven. That's a whole other side issue. (It COULD happen, however remotely)

I think it is a great question that I would love to hear our esteemed GG members chime in on!

[AllieSF]

I agree with you Meghan. If a CD has a hard time passing, the "what will other people think of "him", and additionally of me for being with him?" This goes back to people being more concerned what other people think than of the facts of the specific situation, and that goes for males and females. Blend better and for a somewhat accepting potential partner of SO, that may take away that other fear of really sticking out in a crowd and the general public when she is with "him" as a female. I am not saying this applies to everyone, but mostly to some of those that may be more tolerating and hopefully even accepting. However, that being said, I could also see the possibility that she may then start worrying about him attracting men and possible sexual encounters.

It is a very complicated situation. In the big picture what Jennifer says is probably closer to the general truth. In your case, you blend/pass very well and are one of those rare TG's (umbrella term) where you may be able to experience some of the possible female reactions to you. Either way, you have been doing a very good job of being yourself and your natural physical gifts and your dressing capabilities really help a lot.

[Meghan4now]

Allie,

I hope that last part is directed to the OP! I think she has it down pat. Jenn is no slouch either. As for myself, I think I can do ok some of the time, but I still think I am only a bit blendy. My Fred Flintstone shadow doesn't help.

And yes I also agree that doing too good a job could have its own set of issues with the wife. Maybe a jealousy issue, like an insecure husband of a knockout wife?

[AllieSF]

Sorry Meghan, the last part was for Valery, not that you don't look very good in your pictures. I think that there are so many different thoughts going through a SO's and even a friendly GG's mind that it would be hard to truly nail it down very much. Add in how the MtF looks and comes together when in female mode, it can get complicated.

[Teresa]

Valery,
To answer your first question in my case it doesn't apply because my wife doesn't want to see me dressed.

My experience of dressing with a woman and the effect goes back before I married, my GF wasn't turned on because of any lesbian tendencies , she just realised how much it turned me on so she still encouraged it for her own ends as well.

It doesn't matter how big or small you are in male mode, most partners just say they want the man they married.

Since going out socially the whole question of passing has faded for me, it's not the important issue anymore, it was the realisation that I was finally satisfying my inner needs, feeling comfortable in your own skin, maybe finding out that the World doesn't end and people are accepting.

[TinaMc]

TBH, my wife has said she understands the "man in a dress" thing more than the effort to pass as a female. I think she would understand it more in terms of why I like to dress if I just liked to dress and not try to present as a female. So no, it's completely opposite for us anyway.

[sometimes_miss]

I don't know, because I don't pass. But my own opinion is that what either consciously or subconsciously upsets our mates greatly, is the feeling of loss of their masculine SO, as well as any insecurities connected to that. Once seen as less than masculine, they can lose any attraction they have for us, eventually disrupting sexual desire, and then potentially altering any love they feel for us, from romantic to platonic. Once we're no longer felt to be their lover, they may seek to replace that role with a different, and once again, a different, masculine, male. And that can be the end of the marriage if she still is drawn to a sexual relationship if she is no longer sexually turned on by her husband any longer.

[ReineD]

I agree with most of the comments in this thread.

It is easy for me to go out with my SO dressed because my SO does not present an exaggerated image of a woman. My SO dresses like other GGs in their 50s, she has her own natural (now greying) hair, wears minimal makeup and wears breast forms in a modest size appropriate for my SO’s torso. My SO’s beard is grey now so there is no dark beard shadow to cake over with makeup, which is a plus. There are no high heels (very few women in our neck of the woods wear them) and no short skirts (few women in their 50s wear them). If my SO were to give into wearing these things, we’d be read right off the bat which would make our outings awkward.

In terms of mannerisms, my SO walks, moves and eats just the same as in guy mode. There is no exaggerated wiggle, no extended pinkie, no giggles or fluttering of eyelashes or any other type of mannerism that new CDers might adopt. Thank goodness. BTW, men and women don’t walk or eat all that differently. I’d say that other than models who sashay down the runway, or cowboys just getting off a horse, most people have a fairly neutral walk. The minute a CDer puts on fake mannerisms, it shows.

So yes, an absence of contrived appearance and fake mannerisms is a huge help in making me feel more comfortable when we go out.

Am I more or less attracted to my SO when she is dressed? My answer to that is neutral. I love my SO just the same whether presenting as male or female because it is my SO’s inner self that I love. As to your point about being androgynous vs male vs female, honestly most men look male (including my SO when in guy mode), most women look female, and very few people have a physical appearance that makes it difficult for others to tell whether they are male or female. Very few people are truly androgynous, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone whose sex confounded me. At the same time, I don't see any huge differences in general behaviors or the types of things that men and women talk about - for example I talk about current events, politics, work issues, personal interests, and general family matters with both my male and female friends so I don't know what you mean about someone being more male or more androgynous other than the way they present. Anyway, as long as a CDer attires himself in such a way as to not stand out as a CDer while out, then he will pass under most people’s radars because there will be nothing that will make others stare and then notice he is not a GG. Having said this, most people who do interact with my SO directly for any length of time do know that she is not a GG. Almost no CDer can pass as a GG up close, under the best of circumstances.

… then it might trigger some internal lesbian desires (even when they are hetero, or "hetero", I do not know), or they do not know why but they might consider it.

I think this is fantasy. I and most of the GGs I know who are involved with CDers love our SOs and accept them (to various degrees), without being lesbian. We are not attracted to other women. We have had some GG members who were bi, and frankly they experienced difficulties with acceptance at the same rate as hetero GGs. Some bi women and hetero women accept fairly easily, and some bi women and hetero women don't. And of all the GGs who have joined this forum in the almost 10 years I've been here, if there was one who identified as lesbian I missed it. lol. Lesbian women partner with other women who don't tend to crossdress and so they wouldn't be members here.

Edit
... But when you say "trigger some internal lesbian desires", if you mean that some women might be more into you sexually if you dress normally rather than as a fetish CDer or a CDer who has not perfected the appearance, I suppose this depends on how open minded is your GG and how much she is into you to begin with. We've had a lot of GG members in new relationships with CDing boyfriends who reported exciting sexual relationships and honestly I don't think it made any difference how their boyfriends dressed in bed. Wives who have been married a while though don't tend to find any type of CDing in bed particularly exciting (not like brand new girlfriends), although some wives can certainly have sex while their husbands are dressed. I dare say that some GGs know that being dressed is exciting for the boyfriend/husband and when this happens, it can also be of benefit for the GG. On the other hand, some wives get turned off the idea that their husbands might be more aroused when dressed than just being aroused by their wives. Still, no matter how a CDer dresses, if he has a penis and uses it then the GG he is with will likely not take it she is having lesbian sex.

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Valery,
When I was in my twenties, my wife then could not accept my presenting female at all because, in her mind, I was prettier than she was. I didn't think so, she was a gorgeous woman. However, it was a deal breaker and I had to go into stealth mode. The answer to your question will depend on the uniqueness of the acceptor and the presenter.
Jeri

[Pat]

In a way I think you can apply the standards for any activity -- yes, if you look really good doing it, it's a plus: if you look really good playing tennis for example, people will be more accepting of your tennis fixation. But it's only a plus -- if you're a horrible player that will overwhelm the impression.

The thing that gives the best result, in my opinion, is to be happy. If you're enjoying yourself people accept almost anything. Even a crappy tennis player gets acceptance and encouragement if they're clearly having a good time. If you can show your spouse how happy crossdressing makes you, I think that will count for more than being able to pass for Brittany Spears. If you're happy you treat yourself better and you treat the people around you better and everyone will look forward to seeing you walk in the room. (IMHO)

Edit: A final thought -- looks fade; a good personality lasts forever.

[deebra]

Valerie, very good post, you make some very good points and I agree with Meghan's thread. Let's face it, women when presenting as their best are very desirable, generally speaking much more so than the average guy. None of us are completely hetero, we all have some testosterone and estrogen and when thrown in a certain situation we or in this post women just might be compelled to try something new. And I agree with your premise that when a woman in her sexual prime would see a very femininely attractive crossdresser and knowing what the payout would be down below would want to try it; you know, if you don't try it you'll never know, better to try it and see if you like it than spending the rest of your life wondering and if you did like it it could take you down a whole new road of pleasure. That said I can see some GG's that are attracted to pretty women but enjoy what a male brings trying a more advanced CD that has had surgery to acquire breasts and other female attributes but has kept his plumbing (site won't let me use that word, s**m***).

And yes to the other question, if a CD presents as a very passable feminine woman I can see how a female mate would be more accepting. Why not, it would be like two girlfriends shopping plus having a husband, couldn't two be possibly better than just one?

You, Meghan and texgirl are all very passable and could fill the roll described above.

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Valerie I also agree with your last paragraph, as a CD and presenting so very feminely passable when you start looking for a mate you just might want to look for a female that likes her male with feminine attributes.

[Jenniferathome]

... While it can make being out easier, ...

...It is easy for me to go out with my SO dressed because my SO does not present an exaggerated image of a woman. ...

Again, being easier to go out is not the same as acceptance. A wife can accept and never go out with her husband, can go out and actually NOT accept his cross dressing, or can accept Sasquatch in a dress.

So Reine, if your husband was not flying under the radar: short skirt, exaggerated mannerisms, etc, 1) would you still go out with him? and 2) would you still accept him?

[Meghan4now]

Accepting is also not the same as being either attracted or encouraging. I would say the willingness to go out and be seen in public would be an extremely strong indication of acceptance, as opposed to "allowing" the husband to do his thing, but not wanting to participate, which I see as Tolerance.

It's a blurry line, and I am sure everyone's boundaries and definitions vary to some degree.

[Louise DK]

For my wife I dont think it really Matters much if I can pass or not. Shes simply not attracted to me while dressed at all, no matter what.!
I know I will never pass as a genetic woman, but on the other hand, I dont look all too bad either. But shes still only attracted to me as a man, and thats fine.
Even though it does absolutely nothing for her, she still accepts my crossdressing.

Louise.

[Jenniferathome]

What I read from the OP is that a man who is "more passable" is more likely to be accepted by his wife.

On this point, I completely disagree. Did I misread the OP?

[Stephanie47]

I keep my dressing private. Totally private. A long time ago (three decades) I realized trying to gain some acceptance of my desire to wear women's clothing by my wife was futile. More than futile. It bordered on "mental spousal abuse." The final straw to me was going to Mervyn's to buy me some panties. It was absolute torture for my wife. She was actually shaking. I had enough sense to not probe, but, I do have some inkling of the reason for her disapproval. Needless to say she married me as a man. There were many guys interested in her, and, all were straight masculine men...me included.

Maybe when we were first married I would have been passable if I had a well applied makeup job. I was six foot and 175 pounds with a 38-30-36 figure and skin that was not aging yet, and, blond wavy hair. That still would not have made my interest in women's clothing any more accepting.

I've read many posts over the years of women who are supportive of their husband's cross dressing desires and have counseled her husband that the visual is very very masculine. The wife's concern is for her husband's physical and emotional security, not whether she is turned on by the prospect of some lesbian type sexual adventure with her. There are some ladies on this site who really really look terrific, and, are 100% passable. Not me! If I looked like those beautifully made up women, I'd be out and about on a daily basis. I would conjecture, if a husband was 100% passable, maybe a wife would be willing to be in his female presence because she loves her "man" and is willing to make "him" happy. But, I can only assume "she" is not invited into the marital bed.

My wife has 0% interest in a cross dressing husband.

[CynthiaD]

I found that my wife became more tolerant of my dressing when I began wearing a wig full time. The wig makes me look much more feminine. We don't talk much about dressing, so it's hard to be sure. But my interpretation is that when I made no effort to look feminine, my wife interpreted it as making fun of femininity. When I make the effort, it's more like I'm showing my respect for femininity (which is actually the truth.)

[Nikki A.]

I can only speak for myself. My wife would tolerate the dressing only to a point. When I crossed the line and looked too fem she went into shut down mode. One of her triggers were when I put on a bra and had breasts and wearing make up. That made her feel that she was losing me to a fantasy woman (me) and how could she compete with a fantasy. No matter what I said, that was her breaking point.

[StephanieJ]

When I was married, my wife straight up told me that she could have been more accepting if I made a more convincing woman. My humble opinion however is that while being passable probably does not improve marital relations, it does help when moving about in society.

[Holtzman83]

I already had some good experiences under my belt encountering & learning about gender identity & expression before I met my husband or knew of his CD desires.

It makes the most sense to me that already being exposed to a non-binary gender construct would be a primary cause in a wife's journey to acceptance.

And oh, yeah, love. 😜 I would love my husband's face off his face! Love that face right off, slap a new face right on. Love that face off. It's a love face-off! Lol!

[Dana44]

My SO tries to help me pass on going out. But I put on my own makeup but she may change my hair and make it more girly. She says that people see what they want to see and that has been very apparent out and about. So, if one is a girl then they are viewed as such. So, I do try to pass. But in male mode I do get maimed sometimes.