What can we do to get Crossdressing accepted as a social Norm?

[suzanne]

We are now where gay and lesbian people were some thirty years ago. Always a minority (estimates of homosexual prevalence run no higher than 10% of the general population, and usually lower), they realized they could never win equal rights referenda without support from the rest of the population. Their solution was to be OUT and visible as much as possible. That way, more people would learn three things. First, that they too know someone, like a close friend or family member, who is gay or lesbian. Second, that this gay person they know is a REAL HUMAN BEING, not some exaggerated monster caricature. And that, third, aside from who they sleep with, gays and lesbians are pretty much the same as the rest of us in all other respects. And that nothing bad happens when you extend to them the rights enjoyed by the majority.

So, more than just a personal statement that an individual refuses to hide any longer, outing oneself became political statement. It took a long time to develop the critical mass of support, and the campaign has not yet reached its goal, but progress is undeniable.

How do we duplicate that success? Get out there. In your dresses. Do regular things. In your dresses. Act the same way wearing your dress that you do in drab. Be seen. Be noticed. Dress your best but don't worry if you don't pass. The muggles need to see that, aside from your taste in clothes, you're no different from them. I might even go so far as to say that when we "pass" we disappear from view and lose opportunities to change a muggle's mind.

It's a long, slow process, but progress is already being made. We can now clothes shopping pretty much anywhere. Violent negative reactions are now rare. Law enforcement officers treat us the same as anyone else. In fact, the biggest barriers come from within us. We are just now learning to overthrow the conditioning we received since infancy. This too is addressed by just getting out there. In your dress. You learn at the same time you teach others.

[Cassiek]

Funny part about whole subject is in early history we did wear women's clothes including heels and makeup Let's hope one day like most other fashion trends it will come around again in full circle and be accepted again. Only problem is this great forum may be obsolete and we'd never talk to each other and share our experiences.

[Stephanie47]

There's two issues going on here. The OP is discussing "crossdressing" and not just the concept of a male body adorned in women's clothing. There seems to be wide acceptance by society that there are men and women "trapped" or "born into" the wrong body. That is a medical/psychological issue. Crossdressing? Trying to convey to the general public that there are men who enjoy not just wearing women's clothing, but, emulating a woman without wishing to transition really seems a little out there. If a crossdressing man cannot explain the "why" he does it, how can society in general understand? So, George shows up Monday in a dress shirt, slacks, tie, shined shoes. Then, on Tuesday Georgette shows up in a dress, hosiery, heels, bra, panty, slip and makeup, and, a wig if he does not have a full mane of hair.

In Washington State transsexuals and "gender expression" are covered by law. Basically, George may show up as Georgette anytime, and, go anywhere and be protected from harassment. That's a hate crime. I have not heard in the liberal area I live and worked in of any crossdressing male going to work as his female counterpart. Undergoing transitioning? Yes.

How can crossdressing become the norm when it is not presented by crossdressers. Going to a club at night is not going to generate a lot of exposure to the issue. Even the bathroom law bills seem to only bring up transsexual issues, and, not crossdressing issues.

I think until why a male wants emulate a woman without transitioning to a woman can be figured out, there is little hope. Tolerance does not equal acceptance.

[I Am Paula]

Just please don't think that LBGT advocacy groups, or the TS community is ignoring you. Right now we TS are getting our rights pulled out from under us, and a getting our asses kicked. Those of us who have no choice will fight for our side first. Good luck in your quest, but right now is probably the worst time in history to bring it up. Five years ago you would have had to face some narrow minded people. Now, you'll have whole states trying to legislate you out of existence.
Wether you have temporarily inhabited a man's body, and have set that right, or you are a man who enjoys presenting as a woman, we are now the enemy, and one election will not change that.

[sometimes_miss]

There seems to be wide acceptance by society that there are men and women "trapped" or "born into" the wrong body.

Wide acceptance is really stretching it. Barely tolerating it, seems closer to the truth, and there are a whole lot of people out there that don't believe in it at all.

Crossdressing? Trying to convey to the general public that there are men who enjoy not just wearing women's clothing, but, emulating a woman without wishing to transition really seems a little out there.

Way, way out there.

If a crossdressing man cannot explain the "why" he does it, how can society in general understand?<snip>I think until why a male wants emulate a woman without transitioning to a woman can be figured out, there is little hope.

When we cannot explain it, the person who's observing it will come up with an explanation on their own, and it is NOT going to be the explanation you want them to come up with: They are going to assume that you are either gay or transsexual, and are simply in denial.

Like it or not, most women's clothing is designed to accentuate the female form; the female form has been developed by evolution to attract men, in order to enhance procreation. So.....what we're doing, whether we want to acknowledge it or not, is something that is designed to sexually attract men. That said, non-crossdressing men will not do it, and normal women will not be attracted to it, rather, it will be something that most often makes them actively turned off to us, in the same way that a straight woman is turned off at the thought of having sex with another woman, or a straight man is turned off by the thought of having sex with another man.

So it's not going to be considered a 'normal' behavior any time soon, if ever. It might be tolerated, the same way that someone who chooses to wear a clown costume every day as his chosen attire might; but we'll still be seen as eccentric at best, bizarre at worst. But it won't be celebrated.

[Georgette_USA]

Just please don't think that LBGT advocacy groups, or the TS community is ignoring you. Right now we TS are getting our rights pulled out from under us, and a getting our asses kicked.

So, George shows up Monday in a dress shirt, slacks, tie, shined shoes. Then, on Tuesday Georgette shows up in a dress, hosiery, heels, bra, panty, slip and makeup, and, a wig if he does not have a full mane of hair.
Undergoing transitioning? Yes.

Compare the way it is for TGs who go out in public today to how it was during the 1970s-80s and prior.

I think we have two different arguments. CD acceptance and TG/TS acceptance.

I think the acceptance of CDs is way different. Not all places accept TG/TS even now. Even in states with laws. Some will use other arguments for not employing TG/TS, or letting them go. I can't see many places accepting a CD that changes back and forth. If one wants to fully present as a woman, it would be similar to a TG/TS.

Yes thing were different back in the 70-80s, few people ever heard of TG/TS or understood what that was. Of the older people here, how many knew or had any interaction with a TG/TS back then. I had to educate my employer and the military on what it entailed. I was lucky that they both accepted me, plus the some 100-200 people that I worked with. I held a Top Secret security clearance and they had NO problem with it as I was totally out to them. Other than work few if any even thought of TG/TS as it was very uncommon, plus I did a pretty good job of being stealth, including men in a sexual situation after SRS.

I was the George/Georgette, had to wear pants in my job though, but did have my own longer hair. But I NEVER went back to George once it was approved, in fact I made the leap of faith and had my name legally changed before coming out.

[Krisi]

What can we do to get Crossdressing accepted as a social Norm?

Did anyone read the thread title? For those who did not, I reposted it here. The thread talks about crossdressers, not transsexuals or gay and lesbians. It's about males (like me and most others here ) who wear fake boobs, fake butts and fake hair along with women's clothing and accessories and pretend they are women just for fun.

It's possible that crossdressing will become more tolerated, especially by businesses (like Target) who want our money, but it will never be accepted as a social Norm. Never. No more than wearing a furry suit and fake tail and pretending to be a beaver.

[mykell]

What can we do to get Crossdressing accepted as a social Norm?

Did anyone read the thread title? For those who did not, I reposted it here. The thread talks about crossdressers, not transsexuals or gay and lesbians. It's about males (like me and most others here ) who wear fake boobs, fake butts and fake hair along with women's clothing and accessories and pretend they are women just for fun.

It's possible that crossdressing will become more tolerated, especially by businesses (like Target) who want our money, but it will never be accepted as a social Norm. Never. No more than wearing a furry suit and fake tail and pretending to be a beaver.

its most certainly not about males like you, almost everyone who responded had constructive thoughts to move things forward and some ways to do that, not the negative hyperbole you spew out with regularity. as you may have seen in quite a few posts not everyone who dresses identifies as "Male" i would be one, some are bi or gay or have not yet accepted they are transsexual........since you re-posted the question, "what can you (we/Krisi) do to get crossdressing to be accepting as a social norm", you still haven't answered that....

[Krisi]

its most certainly not about males like you, almost everyone who responded had constructive thoughts to move things forward and some ways to do that, not the negative hyperbole you spew out with regularity. as you may have seen in quite a few posts not everyone who dresses identifies as "Male" i would be one, some are bi or gay or have not yet accepted they are transsexual........since you re-posted the question, "what can you (we/Krisi) do to get crossdressing to be accepting as a social norm", you still haven't answered that....

Again, you misread the original question. It's about crossdressing, not TS, TG, Gay or whatever. That would be a different subject in a different thread. It helps greatly if you understand the question before you post an answer.

Now to ignore the above and answer the original question directly. Are we talking about men simply wearing clothes designed and marketed for women or are we talking about men wearing wigs, makeup, feminine earrings, breast forms and padded panties? There is a big difference.

It is possible that some day it might be acceptable for men to wear skirts and blouses and/or dresses. Not likely, but it's possible. Of course it would no longer be "crossdressing" it would be normal or "stylish". After all, fashions change and women wearing pants are not considered crossdressers.

Do I think it will ever become accepted for men to wear wigs, makeup, feminine earrings, breast forms and padded panties to work and in social situations? Nope, I do not. And what can we do to make it acceptable? Nothing.

[Desiree2bababe]

I am leaning towards the thought that if it were the norm, all the fun and excitement would vanish.

[MichelleDevon]

I am leaning towards the thought that if it were the norm, all the fun and excitement would vanish.

No chance, Desiree. We would just be able to do it more often and have more fun and more excitement.

Michelle
xxx

[mechamoose]

Yah, corporateland is kind of staid.

Dressing cross-gendered is visually disruptive. Even for a totally in-the-flow person like myself I miss a step when meeting one of us. Not because it is bad, but because it is unusual.

That is partly why I try and present in the way that I do.. it should not cause that kind of bump.

In a company, if I am in a client facing role, I *can't* present. That personal bump I'm willing to endure now shows up as a company rep.

It is a bias, plain and simple. Used to be that skin color could cause this kind of 'bump'. We have miles to cross and minds to change.

-K/M

[LexiNexi]

I think the GL crow will lead the way on Tele, ads and media and out in public, then as people don't blink twice, the TG will be more accepted like GL was at first. The TV crowd will walk on the trains of the TS crowd with a slightly delayed arrival. Watch out for confirmation bias when trying to see a change...

[CherylFlint]

At home I dress myself with critiquing from my wife.
When we go out she’s in charge of the outfit and makeup so I “pass”, and I must say she does a really good job.
When we’re out I don’t speak and just follow her lead.
She is fine with the arrangement and we’ve been married for over 20 years.
Sometimes she’ll dress me and then have her friend’s over, and even then I don’t speak.
It has worked very well and I wouldn’t want it any other way. If she’s not happy with the makeover we stay home or she’ll just tell me to dress “drab”.
Everyday is rather exciting. We have a spare bedroom where I keep all my stuff and she’ll layout what she wants me to wear that evening. Or not.
Anyway, the idea is to have fun.
Good luck.
Social norm? Don't hold your breath.