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Thread: What can we do to get Crossdressing accepted as a social Norm?

  1. #76
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    Sarah,
    Your words are so true, I'm not ashamed of something I can't change and it doesn't matter what people think or do because that's not going to change me either. I also agree with you about acting normally, being dressed isn't an act so I don't try and change my voice and my actions are those of a person going about everyday living, the difference is I'm dressed as I prefer to be dressed .

  2. #77
    Junior Member EffyJaspers's Avatar
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    I'd say when only 20% of the population are disgusted by CDs is when we are accepted. I'd say we're at only 60% thinks we're disgusting. Any media attention simply would need to ease the disgust factor down. A man in a dress not being preposterous is the public view goal.
    Acceptance in my thought case is just indifference towards CDs. I don't care if they are embracing it, they just need to not care about my dressing style much.

  3. #78
    Member Cassiek's Avatar
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    Funny part about whole subject is in early history we did wear women's clothes including heels and makeup Let's hope one day like most other fashion trends it will come around again in full circle and be accepted again. Only problem is this great forum may be obsolete and we'd never talk to each other and share our experiences.

  4. #79
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    Even if they did, Mirya, there aren't enough crossdressers. Women during the suffrage movement? Fifty percent of the population stood to benefit. The civil rights movement? A whopping twelve percent of the US population is black. Both these groups are not only visible, they cross our paths every day...
    Yes, a very logical, rational explanation to this fundamentally vexing question. Unfortunately, logic and reason often don't enter into the equation.

    Funny, when it comes to "religious freedom" to justify discriminating against us or curtailing our rights - or even the current frenzy around the various already enacted and pending "Bathroom Bills" in the U.S. - our miniscule numbers and the unlikely odds of the average "muggle" ever encountering one of us in the wild seem to carry no weight.

    To hear the politicians and their rabid adherents who champion these bills tell it, we are literally the "Barbarians at the Gate", Western civilization as we know it is in peril, and the Apocalypse is sure to follow if TG people are allowed to use the washrooms that conform to their true gender identity.
    Last edited by Lorileah; 08-30-2016 at 12:25 AM. Reason: you don't need to repost thge whole post

  5. #80
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    Yes, but Leslie, the battle doesn't really have anything to do with TGs using bathrooms. I agree, realistically the majority of people will never encounter a TG in any bathroom, but that's not what the handful of people who were protesting on city hall steps were afraid of. It's just one wedge issue among many others (immigrants, refugees, terrorism, guns, abortion, etc) that are used to polarize the US population.

    This isn't the bathroom thread, so I'll post the rest of my response as a visitor message on your profile page.
    Last edited by ReineD; 08-29-2016 at 03:10 AM. Reason: Removed most of my North Carolina HB2 post since this is not the bathroom thread.
    Reine

  6. #81
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    .......... Being in the closet won't gain yu acceptance, in fact it reinforces the negativity associated with the community. If you are ashamed of yourself,m then everyone else will be ashamed of you also.
    I'm not ashamed of my penis but that doesn't make it appropriate to prance around my neighborhood buck naked.

    What you and some other folks seem to forget from time to time is that the term "crossdressing" encompasses a wide spectrum of males dressing as females. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are a more or less "full time" crossdresser. You live and work dressed as a woman. Most of the members here are not in that situation. Some are coming to this forum to find out what size panties or bra they should be wearing. Others are asking how to hide their dressing from their wives or how to tell them about it without losing them. Many crossdressers here wear things like ballet outfits, wedding gowns or "hooker" outfits that most actual women would not wear in public.

    Individual crossdresser's choices on being "out", in the closet or somewhere in between are based on their personal situations and it would be best if others would respect those decisions. There shouldn't be any implied ranking of the worth of an individual based on his willingness to expose his dressing to the outside world.

    Maybe there should be two separate sections here, one for casual or part time dressers and one for serious and full time dressers.

  7. #82
    stone free mykell's Avatar
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    krisi you cant have it both ways….

    these are your words,

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    What can we do to get Crossdressing accepted as a social Norm?

    Did anyone read the thread title? For those who did not, I reposted it here. The thread talks about crossdressers, not transsexuals or gay and lesbians. It's about males (like me and most others here ) who wear fake boobs, fake butts and fake hair along with women's clothing and accessories and pretend they are women just for fun.

    It's possible that crossdressing will become more tolerated, especially by businesses (like Target) who want our money, but it will never be accepted as a social Norm. Never. No more than wearing a furry suit and fake tail and pretending to be a beaver.
    i have an unabridged version of this with your honest thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi

    The facts are, you can have breast implants, you can get a vagina, get your body hair removed and several other things done, but your internal organs will still be male and your DNA will still be male. You will still have a male build and size. These are facts, they cannot be changed. You can live as a woman and you can dream you are a woman but you are sill male medically and biologically.

    Again, facts.
    so if a gay man wears womens clothes he is crossdressing.
    if a transgender person is wearing women's clothes they are crossdressing,
    if a transsexual is wearing women's clothing they are crossdressing ???

    male DNA right, folks have offered answers to the OPs original question.

    so why are you so uptight they these folks are contributing to the conversation,

    point out one post where someone has implied ranking of the worth of an individual based on his willingness to expose his dressing to the outside world. (your pronouns).

    now as you stated above did you read the title and we did and contributed to the OPs question,

    you however stated
    And what can we do to make it acceptable? Nothing.
    so it would seam you have nothing further to contribute to the conversation the OP started, and
    Maybe there should be two separate sections here, one for casual or part time dressers and one for serious and full time dressers.
    i thought we had that already.....the MtF section and a transsexual section.

    lately i get the feeling from you that if were not a "male crossdresser" you dont like us and dont like being associated with us....

    oh and lorileah is a women.... you know a “fulltime" crossdresser
    Last edited by mykell; 08-30-2016 at 05:27 AM. Reason: tweak
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that those who deny freedom deserve it not for themselves
    NOBODY gets a pass to blow out someone else's candle in order to make theyre's shine brighter

  8. #83
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    I can see Krisi's point about the choice to come out vs staying closeted for Crossdressers.

    At the same time, biology is separate from internal gender ID and although MtF transitioners fully feel female, are regarded as female by their peers, and transition to a female body as much as medical science will allow, they still cannot ovulate.

    Mikell, back to your main point, transsexuals do not crossdress. They dress in a manner that reflects their gender identity. The OP's question is, "What can we do to get Crossdressing accepted as a social Norm?" and not "What can we do to get transsexualism accepted as a social Norm".

    I think that Krisi was commenting on the fact there are many in this forum who believe that crossdressers need to dress for identity reasons and this is as dire for them as it is for a MtF transsexual who needs to live her life and be regarded by others as herself. I'd say that (some? many? most?) CDers want both: to have the ability to crossdress at will (bonus points if they can arrange to do so in public), all while not having it affect their male lives. Transsexuals do not want this, they don't want male lives. So it's up to each individual to establish a balance that is right for them and their own needs, without being made to feel guilty for not coming out to everyone in their life the way a transsexual must do when she transitions. Some CDers would like to be more out than they are, and these people hopefully will take steps to do so. But other CDers are quite happy with the way they've orchestrated their lives and they don't need to change.

    This conversation would be different if it was in the TS section. Then there would be no question that everyone who transitions needs to be out.
    Last edited by ReineD; 08-29-2016 at 04:16 PM.
    Reine

  9. #84
    Luv doing girl stuff CherylFlint's Avatar
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    At home I dress myself with critiquing from my wife.
    When we go out she’s in charge of the outfit and makeup so I “pass”, and I must say she does a really good job.
    When we’re out I don’t speak and just follow her lead.
    She is fine with the arrangement and we’ve been married for over 20 years.
    Sometimes she’ll dress me and then have her friend’s over, and even then I don’t speak.
    It has worked very well and I wouldn’t want it any other way. If she’s not happy with the makeover we stay home or she’ll just tell me to dress “drab”.
    Everyday is rather exciting. We have a spare bedroom where I keep all my stuff and she’ll layout what she wants me to wear that evening. Or not.
    Anyway, the idea is to have fun.
    Good luck.
    Social norm? Don't hold your breath.

  10. #85
    This Time Around Lauri K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    Maybe there should be two separate sections here, one for casual or part time dressers and one for serious and full time dressers.
    Maybe if you have nothing beneficial to add to the thread on this subject you just don't comment on it, everything you have said sounds like a broken record of sorts justifying all these "special situations" even to the point of you wanting to start another section on the forum for part time / casual dressers
    Way too Girly ! I couldn't smell the smoke, and now I'll watch the flames

    Out on Parole ......Woo Hoo

  11. #86
    Member Sophie Yang's Avatar
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    First off, this 'guy' thinks that it starts with self acceptance of ourselves first and foremost. If you cannot accept yourself, how can one expect others to accept you. If the bully picks on someone without any consequences, the bully continues to pick on them. Take spousal abuse as an example. Most us who are not in that kind of relationship say we would just get out. Those in that relationship see it as their fault and try harder to please, only to be disappointed again. Those who break the violence and seek help can find help. The switch from a victim mentality to one of self acceptance and self worth makes taking corrective action easier.

    Early on when I started, I was talking with a cross dresser who participated in a gender panel discussion. There was one participant who was or had transitioned. I don't remember. What I do remember is that the cross dresser said that most of the questions were directed to her. Paraphrasing, she said the audience understood the need for one to align their physical body with their gender and the need to transition. The audience had a much harder time understanding why a guy would want to just dress up as a women. Being in the cross dresser camp, I thought that most of the questions would have gone to the one who transitioned. I guess it just depends on which camp you are in. Since the general public is in neither camp, I imagine how hard it is to get their heads around either one.

    One of the biggest drivers of social change has been the US military. The integration of different racial groups, in particular, blacks, and now women in combat roles are two examples. Both of these did not happen over night, but happened a lot faster than most people ever thought possible. The new policy to allow transgender personnel to serve openly is policy, but still has a long way to go to implement. On a macro-level, the policy is official. On a micro level, it is difficult to over come years of institutionalized culture, history, and traditions on the micro level. A lot is riding on the out come of the next election.

    Another, as others have mentioned, is one-on-one education. There are politicians who rail against some social issue, say gay rights. They rail until confronted with their own son or daughter comes out and then some change their tune dramatically.

    This weekend I was out at two events, two different extremes. On Saturday, I was at a Luau/birthday garden party thrown by and for a woman who owns a transformation business. As part of the business, she also runs a bed and breakfast for her special girls and the public. Her place is a very safe place for the girls to hang out if they are not out and about.

    There were about 20 people in attendance. I knew many of the girls there that night, but not all of them. There was a young couple there with their 8 month old daughter. They were staying at the bed and breakfast and attended the party. Last year there was a young lady, not one of her special girls, who came to the Luau and was also staying at the B and B. She worked in the wine industry as a chemist and was working her way up from California to Canada performing some tests at different sites. Everyone had a good time.

    One of the girls at the party had just attended her 25th high school reunion. Initially she sent in her picture, but wasn't sure she could attend. The reunion organizers begged her to try and come. She ended up going, had a good time, and felt accepted. Pretty easy to win most changed award. Another gal, older I'd say mid 60's, retired postal worker, is also a poker player. She was playing a tournament and was knocked out in an early round. Some guys at the bar asked if they could ask a few question which turned into several hours of discussion. When it was all over, one of the guys said if I win, I am paying for your transition.

    Another conversation at the party was from a couple. The wife said that once she realized that once she realized that she still wanted to be with her husband over any of her other friends, it was much easier for her to come out to her friends. Her husband who worked at Intel was going to come out at work in 2017, but decided to take the early retirement option instead in the latest round of layoffs. The couple made two interesting observations. Over the last three years that they have attended Esprit, the number of couples attending has grown a lot. This year they became mentors for two other couples.

    In another conversation at our table was how to get younger girls to join our group. Most of the people in the group are 45+. The group often refers to themselves as T-Girls without any real meaning attached to the term. The wife of the couple works with a lot of young people and she said that many in the younger generation are some what offended by the T-Girl term. Something us old ladies never really considered.

    On Sunday, I played in a golf scramble tournament. The tournament consisted of two guys, 3 gals, and 11 crossdressers. There were probably 5 golfers and 11 hackers. When the groups were gathering to tee off at 1:00, one of the course managers dropped by. He said the club was wondering if we were going to have our tournament this year or not. The group has played there for several years now. Last year was my first time and about 25-30 years since I had been on a golf course. Last year the group played twice. The manager said that the club always looked forward for the girls to play their tournament.

    Each participant got a pink goodie bag which contained among other things a pink visor. I looked over at the two guys talking. One of them was my brother. Before teeing off, my brother and I went to the putting green. I asked him what they were taking about. He said the other guy would wear the pink visor if my brother did. Neither one wore their pink visor. Everyone who played had their own visor so they stayed in the bag. There was also a set of pink golf balls. My brother said he would not be hitting any pink golf balls. He is one of the serious ones and only plays with a particular brand. After everyone played, prizes were handed at the BBQ dinner. The other guy's team was 6 under so he got another pink bag for winning team. My brother got longest ball so he got another pink bag also. Even though the other guy made a big show about the pink bags, visor, and girly prices, he is accepting of the girls. He always bar tends all the holiday parties.

    On the drive home, my brother said there were some stares out on the course and at the BBQ. Acceptance of cross dressing will be slow in coming, but it will come on the coat tails of other gender issues that get worked out. It will be way too slow for many in this group and way too fast for others, but it will come. It probably never become a main stream though.

  12. #87
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are a more or less "full time" crossdresser. You live and work dressed as a woman.
    That would be a negative Ghostrider. You stand corrected or I just wasted several thousands of dollars

    Maybe there should be two separate sections here, one for casual or part time dressers and one for serious and full time dressers.
    Um...no
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

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