Basic biology tells us about XX and XY. What if there are different degrees of X's and Y's ? If a man has higher degrees of X's than Y's, is it then possible for him to lean toward the feminine side, depending on how much or little of each ? That could explain the different degrees of CD etc. Just something that crossed my mind. How about some of the Biologists on here... I know this would go beyond my high school diploma, so I thought I'd ask.
Remember, nature will always find a way.
I seems unlikely. You get one chromosome from your mom and one from your father.
However--several complications can occur. Calico cats have different chromosomes in different parts of their body.
Other variations exist for example a chimera. Different genes in different parts of the body.
https://newrepublic.com/article/1187...ned-geneticist
Last edited by JenniferR771; 09-01-2016 at 10:40 PM.
Nevermind.
Last edited by GBJoker; 09-02-2016 at 12:42 AM. Reason: I'm not sure what that meant either but it is rude
It might be a good time to read up on transpeople before WWII. I don't think there are more now, but more "out". I doubt the numbers have increased as to "being" but more the ability to to talk about it with less repercussions. In the US the mood was more conservative and gays and transpeople were forced into hiding or had to live as straight in public. Also the economy made it difficult for LGBT people who were out to find and keep jobs. Even today we can't a good number because of the stigma still attached to being LGBT.Originally Posted by GBJoker
That said, there are things that have effected the genome. We know DES did and it is possible chemicals like Agent Orange did. Environmental hazards existed long before 1940 also, so maybe there have been changes.
The expression of many things depend on more than pair of chromosomes. X and Y was easy because it was quite noticeable even without gene sequencing to see. Getting deep into this there are 23 pairs of chromosomes. The XY or XX pair is one. There are also many combinations of such as alluded above (the calico gene for the colors orange and black are on the X and in order to get tri-color cats you need two X's, how ever you can have male calicos but they are XYX or XXY and thus sterile). Gene typing is early still and we know certain genes or combinations of genes can cause birth defects. (Ya all getting sleepy yet? This was actually a full semester class for me and I didn't even major in it). It would be nice to think the RR and WW would make only white red or pink peas but it doesn't. Gene expression is whole science in itself. I doubt most geneticists are freaking out, most are trying to manipulate the genes to stop disease and cancer. There are studies being done on transgenetics also, I think they are serious. But under stand when you are less than 1% of the population and being trans isn't a life or death syndrome medically (not talking social constructs or moral ethics...true medical), research is going to look for a cure for cancer instead. Which BTW they have found certain genes can be manipulated to cure or prevent that.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
there are more now after WW2 because there are more people on the planet
Maybe not; perhaps all the ones in the closets just never got counted!
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Wow!!! Twenty-three pairs of chromosomes, in my mind that makes for a lot of variations. I'm going to stick with that, makes sense to me, a simple but complicated solution.
Thanks Lorileah,Jennifer and all, I feel like I've learned my lessons for today.
My endocrinologist said it perfectly.
A few years ago, while I was being prescribed hormones, I asked if I should get tested to determine if there was a chromosome abnormality.
His response- Why, are you looking for something to blame?
There are many factors that affect sexual development - not just chromosomes, but the environment in the womb as well as postnatally. There's a good article in Nature that addresses some of the contributions, though by no means all. The article could easily be twice as long. Given that our sense of gender identity is probably significantly influenced by our social environment, the physiological contributions are only a small part of the picture but could easily predispose us to lean one way or the other. Neither sex or gender are binary.
Paula,
I like that reply, maybe it's one reason I may not tell my mother !
Whatever factor you put it down to there is so much that can go slightly wrong in our makeup but as Lorileah says the percentage is so low and they would have so little to profit of it as there's no cure.
Actually you may be on to something... Researchers have identified something called "epigenetics" which means some factors may account for suppressing the expression of certain genes. So it is possible to think that your mom did something which resulted in suppressing the expression of masculine genes, and the default expression will always result in the feminine.
People with Swyer syndrome have typical X,Y (male) chromosomes, but they have a defect on their y-chromosome and the result is that they appear and identify as females (with vagina). Also, boys with a defect in the SRY gene of their y-chromosomes have 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (guevedoces), and are considered girls at birth (with vagina) and then develop male genitals at puberty.
So any time there are problems with the y-chromosome, either by defect, or by epigenetic suppression, the default express will be toward the feminine.
There are other good theories including simply hard-wiring of the brain's neural pathways. During synaptogenesis you can develop a condition known as synesthesia, where stimulation of one sensory pathway leads to automatic, involuntary sensation in a second sensory pathway. For example, most men can wear feminine clothing and not feel anything but humiliation, however a much smaller group of men will experience a myriad of wonderful sensations from the release of feel-good neurotransmitters. In such cases their brain may be hardwired to interpret crossdressing as actual contact with a female.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 09-11-2016 at 02:57 AM. Reason: fixed quoting mechanism
You don’t need to ask "what if", there are indeed chromosomal variations. So first, to supplement Lorileah’s post, is a little basic biology:
In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Twenty-two of these pairs, called autosomes, look the same in both males and females. The 23rd pair, the sex chromosomes, differ between males who have one X and one Y, and females who have two Xs. So basically, males have 22+XY and females have 22+XX. This is usually denoted as 46,XY (male) and 46,XX (female).
There are many chromosomal mutations in non-sex chromosomes (genetic disorders), but you’re specifically asking about atypical sex chromosomes.
Here’s a list of sex chromosomes variations (the medical community refers to these as sex chromosome disorders). When the sex chromosomes result in ambiguous phenotypes (the physical traits of an individual), the people affected are referred to as 'intersex'. You can click on each link on the page below for specifics about each variation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_disorders
This is a summary of the above for those of you who don't feel like clicking: the variations are 47,XXX, 48,XXXX, 49,XXXXY syndrome, 49,XXXX, 47,XXY Klinefelter syndrome, 45,X Turner syndrome, XX gonadal dysgenesis, XX male syndrome, XXYY syndrome, XXYY syndrome, XYY syndrome. Please note that these mutations are rare.
In addition to the above chromosomal mutations, there is Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome where a person who is genetically male (46,XY) is resistant to androgens. As a result, the person has some or all of the physical traits of a woman, but the genetic makeup of a man. This is rare as well, affecting 2-5 people in 100,000:
http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides.../overview.html
And here is an expanded list of intersex conditions from the now defunct Intersex Society of North America (ISNA):
http://www.isna.org/faq/conditions
Last edited by ReineD; 09-02-2016 at 03:01 PM.
Reine
Reine, Guess I didn't pay attention in Bio 101, 'cause I don't remember anything about that many pairs of chromosomes. That's probably why I ended up digging ditches all my working life. Anyway, I intend to read at least some of the info you offered. Who knows, maybe I'll learn something. Never too late, I'm told.
Thanks to all who replied, I'm going to go with yes, there's a probability, that something could get mixed up in our ( XX XY etc.) journey to life.
I think many people are looking for exactly that. They can't accept who they are and how they were made or maybe even just choices they make. Anyway about it, some are upset and looking for something to point the finger at.
Paula and Nadine, there’s also the reverse - people who look for genetic confirmation for their desire to crossdress or their need to transition. But the danger there is possibly finding out they are indeed 46,XY.
Reine
Though there could be some other biological or neurological factor (e.g. epigenetic, hormonal, environmental) that is predisposing them to not conform to the default template for their sex.
Always someone elses fault
Don't forget that chromosomes don't determine anything. It's the alleles or genes within the chromosomes that matter. So subtle differences in the genes and the mix of genes within the entire genome need to be considered.
Until I became a father, I always thought that behavior traits were driven by both genetics and environment in rather equal shares. Since becoming a father and observing the strong and unique personality of small children from an early age, I'm not so sure anymore that genes don't have the upper hand in influencing the formation of temperament and behavior.
Putting the y (chromosome) in girly!
My first response was, Doesn't it matter? People are what they are. But I suppose it does, if it can be demonstrated that this is a natural occurrence, not some psychological aberration then it supports the claims of I can't help what I am. Against that is the idea of free choice. If I choose this path then who are you to condemn me for it. This goes back to those who say someone can be cured of being gay. Ultimately it's about choice and educating people to be accepting of other people's choices. Don't blame your genes, just live your life.
Last edited by Helen_Highwater; 09-03-2016 at 06:26 AM.
Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed
Well, you can't carry the SRY gene (which is the master gene that specifies maleness and male features) unless you have a Y chromosome? Either way, I understood the OP's question.
Last year there was a meta-analysis of almost every twin study published in the last 50 years: 2,748 classical twin studies - involving 14.5 million pairs of twins and examining 17,804 traits - published between 1958 and 2012. Some of the traits were more due to genetics than enviroment (i.e. bipolar disorder, 70% genetics/30% enviromental), while other traits were the reverse (i.e. risk for developing an eating disorder, 40% genetics/60% enviromental). Overall they found that we are all influenced about 49% genetics and 51% environmental.
Article: http://www.iflscience.com/health-and...urture-debate/
The study: http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v47...l/ng.3285.html
Yes, obviously.
Last edited by ReineD; 09-02-2016 at 07:47 PM.
Reine
I have. Sub-continent Indians saw transsexuals and hermaphrodites as borderline holy. The Japanese at least acknowledged that transsexuals can be useful to society. Chinese seemed to have tolerated their presence as well. The Thai have been fine with transsexuals since they became Thai. Before Islam and Catholicism entered the Pacific Island nations, transsexuals were seen as necessary for society to survive. The same can be said for many tribes of Native Americans, with my favorite being Sioux general Red Cloud routinely giving war spoils to the transsexuals of the tribe after his lover killed herself.
While all of these groups have seen increases in the number of trans-people since WWII, it is far and away greatest among white people. In my opinion, it is so great as to not be explained by simply people being comfortable being out of the closet. At the same time, more whites were exposed to the various chemical agents of the 1950s and '60s compared to other groups. The numbers of people declaring themselves to be transsexual or "out of the closet" in other regions of the planet haven't gone up as quickly or to such levels, and most of these areas didn't flood their citizens with all these chemicals.
It might be a good time to expose yourself to other cultures.
Can this be applied to criminal behavior? Can a burglar or rapist claim that he/she can't help their criminal behavior? Is it in the genes? Should the criminal behavior be excused because the criminal cannot help it?
Just wondering.
I have an X because she couldn't understand Y I crossdress.
X and Y chromosomes explain sex. Sex is different than gender. Yes, there's such a thing as chromosome damage, but there isn't much evidence that transgender people as a whole are experiencing that.
Let's try a really strained metaphor -- DNA is like the blueprints for a house -- most people have heard and accept that. If the builder follows them exactly you know a lot about how the house is going to come out, but you don't know, for example, what color it's going to be -- that's not in the blueprints. Sometimes the builder doesn't follow the plans exactly and the house doesn't match the plan. Sometimes the materials called for in the blueprints aren't available and substitutions are made. The blueprints have to be combined with the builder's process -- you pour the foundation before you put up the frame, for example. Blueprints don't say that, but it's how things are done. So the theory that's currently the favorite goes like this: your Mom's body is busy building you according to the blueprints. The process requires that your sex organs be developed at a certain week and probably that's going to happen -- the prints says XY and your male sex organs start to develop. Weeks later, the process calls for your gender core to be built, but to do that a supply of testosterone needs to be delivered. 99.4% of the time the supplier delivers the right goods at the right time. But this time it's not there -- or maybe the supplier sent estrogen instead -- the plans say XY so you're supposed to get a male gender core but the supplies aren't there and the clock's ticking. They're going to build a gender core whether it's to spec or not -- the customer (you) can work it out. So the gender core they build is the best they can do under the circumstances but maybe it's not classic male. Oops.
That trivializes a lot of the development theory, but I think captures it in a single paragraph. The strongest presumption at the moment is that gender issues are due to development issues during gestation. There are other things that can go wrong too, not just gender. We're seeing the horrors of Zika virus during development and so on. DNA isn't the whole story by a long chalk.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
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