Boy in makeup

[Amari]

Yesterday my wife and I saw serving in a McCafe, what appeared to be a teenage male. As he appeared to be male I will refer to him as such. His face was superbly made up in a constrained workday female style. His hair had been coloured and carefully styled in a 'messy' updo. After we received our drinks and departed we discussed his appearance, (my wife tolerates my dressing in women's jeans, leggings, tights, shirts, etc, but dislikes me in skirts/dresses, makeup, wig and such). At one time she would have been annoyed and made to feel uncomfortable at a male presenting as he was, but she said she was ok with it and commented what a good job he had done. We did speculate on his gender/sexual orientation but not judging him. I thought he was brave to present as he did, increasingly so as it was in a small town (pop 6500); I admired his courage.

[BettyMorgan]

Sounds like someone who is androgynous, or gender fluid perhaps. The bottom line is don't judge, just carry on with your day and be happy that someone did a good job serving you at a McCafe.

[Leslie Langford]

What were the subtle (or not so subtle?) clues or vibes that he gave off that made you clock him as a biological male instead of a female, despite the elaborate make up job?

[TrishaTX]

I figure more of the world is headed this way. My daughter does competitions and there are Girl, Boys, and the whole spectrum in between in high school. If I look back at my Catholic high school, we knew a few boys were gay, but of 2,000 students probably 2-3 total(there had to be more right ? Including me)...at my daughters school I would be it is at least a percentage over 5% if not higher.

The issue I have always had is who cares? No-one asked a straight person if they are straight but we ask a gay person if they are gay.

[IamWren]

A few months ago I was in Ulta and saw a teenage boy who was wearing makeup and quite a bit. It wasn't over the top but it was definitely noticeable AND rather well done I might add. He seemed to be guiding his younger sister around showing her what she needed. (Honestly I wanted to aske him if would mind giving me some suggestions and tips. )

[deebra]

Amari, great post and comments.

[Amari]

He didn't do a great job serving, the coffee was bitter and his demeanour was at best, reserved.

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Lesley,
A relatively square jawline despite the contouring, and his name badge (although that could equally apply to a FTM). Wife was sure he was a he. Would an FTM do their makeup in an obviously feminine style? I think probably not. As BettyM said maybe gender fluid and just having a girl day; more power to him.

[Krisi]

And people post here all the time saying that you can dress however you want because nobody notices.

You and your wife noticed. I'll be everyone he served noticed. Some people may even have moved to a different line to avoid dealing with him. That's life in the real world.

BTW: "He" might be a member here.

[ellbee]

His face was superbly made up in a constrained workday female style. His hair had been coloured and carefully styled in a 'messy' updo. ...but she ... commented what a good job he had done.

This is the kind of reaction one should aim for, IMO.


Which is why it's important to think what you're doing while you're getting ready. It's about presentability.

Do it well enough & appropriately enough, and people will have "less of a problem" with it.

[Tracii G]

Speculating on his sexual orientation but not judging? Yes you both were judging.
What has that got to do with the way he was dressed or why he had make up on?
Saying you weren't "judging" is what people do to make themselves feel better about judging someone.
Kind of like people that say "no offense" before insulting you when their whole point is to offend you.It clears their conscience.

[Lorileah]

I bet he lost a "bet" on football....or maybe his SO was out of town. Or maybe, he was just being him. Do FtMs do makeup? Why not? And who is to say they are TS (it was noted above, they could be gender fluid). But the ONE sign that this person was TG in some sorta manner...bitter coffee. Everyone knows transpeople can't make coffee (it was McD's for crying out loud, the coffee was probably 24 hours old). Of course every day when I get served by someone, I immediately think "Gee I wonder who they sleep with." Can you all see your biases coming out? You can't help but notice little tells, it's programmed because you were trained that way. But dissecting and questioning beyond that seems obsessive. The good news is your SO was less distressed than they used to be.

On Krisi's point, see above on trained to notice the lack of conformation that is drummed into you. You can, and should, learn to make this less. 50 years ago, certain things were "shocking" or noticeable. Now, no one takes a second look. At least in areas where we have moved beyond physical looks and biases. As far as saying no one notices, that is really true. Next time you watch TV and they describe a "person of interest" note how vague the description is by witnesses. Also note theat even if the person is skewed to a far end of the spectrum, they often are not noticed afterward on the streets by everyday people. Or right now describe the last 5 people you saw at the store, what did they wear? Shoes? Even if they were a little non-conforming and you maybe did notice, today you won't get it right. Unless they interfered with your agenda or were extremely out of your expected zone. People like most here who dress appropriately aren't noted. Same as 50 years ago with any section of society.

[Rhonda Jean]

I see this occasionally (rarely). I too admire their courage. Seeing it EVER is a huge increase in the way it used to be. I'm pretty amazed that there are boys who do this as an everyday thing and are accepted/allowed by their employers. Unfortunately, I think that whatever job they've found that allows this is the only job they'll ever have if they continue. I think it's still a promotion killer. It's quite likely that they don't care, but 20 years from now they might wish they had. Lots of boys have had to cut their hair for job reasons. That's just the way it is.

I must say I'm also encouraged by number of "man buns". I think the little tufts of hair don't qualify, and are kinda silly. But, I've seen several that reach pretty serious nearly-formal updo status, and they're AWESOME! And let's not overlook the hairstyles that some of the football players are wearing! Who would have ever thought that would happen? I'd venture to say that on any college football team there is a higher percentage of players with pierced ears and hair below their shoulders than members of cd.com.

[Lorileah]

uggggh..."man buns" they are soooo not attractive

[ellbee]

Whenever I hear the term "man buns," I can't help but think of his butt!

[Lana Mae]

First off McDonalds regular coffee always sucks! I do not know but I probably would have said to myself, "Well alright!" and left it go at that. I am no angel but I tend to feel if it is right for you go for it!! And sexual orientation belongs in the bedroom, so what if they are ____ fill in the blank!! That person is trying to live their life the best way they can. My 2 cents. Hugs Lana Mae

[Leslie Langford]

...50 years ago, certain things were "shocking" or noticeable. Now, no one takes a second look. At least in areas where we have moved beyond physical looks and biases. As far as saying no one notices, that is really true. Next time you watch TV and they describe a "person of interest" note how vague the description is by witnesses. Also note theat even if the person is skewed to a far end of the spectrum, they often are not noticed afterward on the streets by everyday people. Or right now describe the last 5 people you saw at the store, what did they wear? Shoes? Even if they were a little non-conforming and you maybe did notice, today you won't get it right. Unless they interfered with your agenda or were extremely out of your expected zone. People like most here who dress appropriately aren't noted. Same as 50 years ago with any section of society.

Lorileah, what you have described here could be looked upon as a classic definition of the term "blending in" - something that many of us here who go out regularly en femme strive for, but who also have come to realize that the Holy Grail of "passing" seamlessly is nothing more than a fantasy unless we have had the benefit of hormones, surgery etc.

But isn't that the whole point? Isn't that why the example that you have given above of people often not being able to describe someone whom they have just seen was that the subjects were largely non-descript, and that there was nothing noticeably different or noteworthy about them that would merit a second look or present an unusual image that they would likely remember?

Now, suppose a dude wearing a dress and/or make up were to commit a crime that I and others had just witnessed. You can be sure that both I and John Q. Public would be able to provide a pretty decent description of same beyond the generic "white (or black) male, medium height, medium build, age 25 - 35 (or something similar), 175 - 195 lbs., wearing a dark jacket and dark pants, with no special distinguishing features" etc. This was a guy in a dress, and that to a large extent is what grabbed our attention first and foremost.

That is also why the server at MsD's stood out - it's not every day that one sees a guy in full make up. Not saying that this is shocking in this day and age (nor should it be); just saying that it is still unusual and will attract more than a passing (even if non-judgemental) glance. And clearly he was doing his own thing and didn't care if he was clocked, otherwise he would have made more of an effort to dress in a more traditionally gender-specific way - either male or female. And so he was "read" - no surprise there.

We out-and-about crossdressers who aim to blend in know this all to well. Our make up might be superb, and our outfits might be on point. Our femme voices might be practiced and generally credible, but it is always the little things that invariably give us away - and grab someone's attention. A decidedly "manly" walk, the furtive glances around to see if anyone is "clocking" us, all manner of body language including how we cross our legs, gesture with our hands, flick the hair out of our eyes etc., etc. - all these have stereotypically male or female markers.

So too your point - if one of us were to be caught robbing a bank, the victims and/or eye-witnesses might not remember exactly what we were wearing (how many could distinguish between a scuba or sheath style dress, a color-block vs. striped pattern, a boat-neck vs. "sweet-heart" neckline, above-the-knee vs. maxi-dress etc.? ...but they sure as heck would remember that we were a M-T-F crossdresser, since that is what would have jumped out at them the most.

[Tracii G]

Funny how on a trans based website people are homophobic and show their biases.
They will say they are liberal or open minded but when they talk its the same old stuff a guy wears make up he is perceived gay.
FYI most CDers and this includes you that say stuff like this you wear make up when you CD so you are gay too if you go by that train of thought.

[Lorileah]

And interesting about all the "CDs blending" stuff. TSs are out and about all day every day and rarely get marked or noticed. So all that "I'll never pass" is BS. You may never look like a movie star but 90+ percent of the time, no one sees me at all. I'm 6 ft 180 and I usually wear heels and a skirt or dress. Makeup is a requirement. Yeah I have big hands. So do some women. Today a nice young lady held the door for me, she was taller than I am.


All those "tells" you worry about...there are women who have the same..yes even the dark shadow. The man robbing a bank in a dress analogy...wanna bet that of ALL the details people could have seen, the dress would be the only thing anyone agreed on. Smoke and mirrors, Flash and distraction. Police: "What color eyes did the robber have?" Witness: "um...eyes? He had on a miniskirt and 6" heels" You don't have to disappear. I don't and yet most people didn't see me walk right past them today at the mall.

[Rhonda Jean]

Ahhh... Traci and Lorileah

First, Traci. I think you can wonder (even hope!) if someone is gay without being a homophobe. Yup, a guy in makeup is perceived gay. I think that's pretty universal. Even before I was gay I was not offended by that. When you're in 50/50 mode don't you kinda hope that people do perceive you as gay? I do!

And Lorileah. I've seen you're pics. I think you way undersell your passability. Totally passable? You say you're not, so I'll take your word for it. I suspect that when you don't pass, a typical reaction is probably more like, "I'm not sure that was a genetic woman, but she's pretty hot either way!". Also, just because someone doesn't show a strong reaction, don't think they didn't notice, or that they're not making comments behind your back. People are pretty good at acting like they don't notice.

[ellbee]

So all that "I'll never pass" is BS.

...

Yeah I have big hands. So do some women.

I agree with the whole passing (or at least blending) thing. I get the sense that sometimes some don't want to (or even realize they can) put in the "research" & then the effort / hard work, in order to do so.



For example, anyone can simply Google or YouTube something about work-outs tailored to GG's. Guess what? Most don't work out like guys do, surprise surprise! They oftentimes target different areas in very different ways in order to create a more feminine body shape. And once one has that knowledge, they also have to put it to good use, consistently over time. Do that, and they will get results!

No, you're not going to get a perfect hour-glass figure (not without some help from padding & what-not, anyway). But wouldn't you want to get that much closer to the real-deal, anyway?



Or Lorileah's example: Larger hands? Yep, that can be an issue (even for some GG's). Again, guess what? There's a couple work-arounds that I can list off the top of my head. For one, you can wear 3/4-sleeves, which pull an observer's eye *away* from that larger hand, and instead up the arm a bit. (And yes, make sure that the sleeve falls 3/4's on *your* arm, about halfway between your wrist & elbow -- and *not* on the perfectly-sized GG model in the photo. ) You're basically "tricking" someone's mind to look elsewhere, helping to take the attention away from your trouble-area which may cause you to get clocked.


A second option? Extra-long sleeves, which fall *past* your wrist & cover part of your hand. What this does is help hide/minimize the problem area (instead of drawing attention away from it, as with the 3/4-sleeve). I personally prefer this method, but really either work pretty equally well. Give them a try & see for yourself! Heck, you don't even have to spend any $$ on testing it -- just use an existing long-sleeve top that's perhaps older or you don't like as much, in case you stretch it about a bit, LOL.


Will either of these solutions make your issue totally disappear? Nope! But it's all about minimizing the masculine, and maximizing (within reason, LOL) the feminine. And this can also be done with height, or broad shoulders, or a long torso, or a square jaw, or whatever. GG's have body issues, too, you know! And collectively speaking, they've been at this a looong time, a lot longer than any of us have individually. Learn from them, please. Because there's tons of info & advice already out there, just waiting to be put to good use by you.



This "game" really is about inches, so to speak. There's a certain tipping point, with a lot of little things that can add up in a big way, and all one is really after is to hopefully tip the scale that much more in one's favor. Plenty of things out there that can easily be researched online, and then actually put to use in a real-world way.

And I'm not saying everyone will all suddenly pass, or at least blend, all the time with everyone in all situations. But wouldn't any & all of you want to really put in your best effort to see if you can get there at least sometimes, to finally experience it for yourself? And if anything at all, at the very least to make things that much more "tolerable," and to give yourself a bit more confidence in all this, perhaps being able to now avoid that many fewer potentially embarrassing things?

Don't ever give up, as there is plenty of hope & actual solutions out there!



Anyway, now about this cute person at Mickey D's with the awesome make-up skillz...

[Teresa]

Amari,
Whatever the reasons for the the attendant wearing makeup it was good that you saw him/her with your wife, it possibly made her think there's more to this than just being a guy in a dress. I do believe my wife is accepting this now, and it's since I started going out socially to meet others. We have to satisfy an inner need , the person you saw was possibly in that situation, if he/she was a TS she would have no choice but to appear that way. If that's the case then his/her's employers should be congratulated on allowing her to work as she chose .

[Tracii G]

Rhonda I don't care what people perceive me as.
If they hang with me for 30 mins they will figure out I'm gay as a 3 dollar bill.
If I am in 50/50 mode or 100% girl mode it makes no difference.
If they think I'm gay or straight thats fine with me my point is people that say they don't judge still do but try to say they don't.

[sharpestcookie]

aBoyNamedSue,

Most of the men I've seen in makeup besides guyliner are makeup artists. Hey, what better way to show off their skills than on their own faces?
I subscribed to 2 of their Youtube channels; the only thing I've learned is that contouring must be some type of sorcery, because holy schnitzel they look amazing!

[Krisi]

If you've ever gone out in public and gotten a nasty look, whistles or comments, you know that people do notice. And real life personal experience is more realistic than what some people might post on a web forum.

Amari and her wife noticed. As I posted above, probably everyone he served noticed. People may not care, but they notice.

[BarbDriscoll]

Re robbing a bank while dressed, about 12 years ago I was at my local bank when it was robbed. I was chatting with the branch manager with my back to the main area when she looked past me and said "____ we've been robbed". I turned and caught sight of a tall person in a cheap looking blonde wig, pastel blue ski jacket and slim black pants walking out the door. I didn't see their face so I wasn't much use as a witness. But the distraction did sort of work. Everyone's description was dominated by the fact that it was very obviously a man dressed as a woman (He had on heavy makeup and lipstick). He was eventually caught because he wasn't very smart about the car he was driving. It was an old Cadillac and very distinctive. And, of course, the cash they gave him had an exploding dye pack in it. So when they pulled over his car later that day they caught him "green handed".