Have You Ever Been Challenged in Public?

[Jessica86]

I was in a store by myself. I had two county looking big guys walk by me, and called me "queer." I don't care what people say, so I just carried on. A few minutes later, they come back by with a woman....I guess she was....and they laugh. They are probably in their forties.

They kept on for a bit until one said "What are you doin' tonight, faggot?" I turned to them, and in my best MAN voice, I said "Whichever one of yall who wants the time of your life!" They took off from there, and ran faster than I ever could in my shoes. Best part was I was in a jewelry section, and the SA there was laughing her butt off. She even told me I am a brave person, and how that could have been ugly. I told her look, I am a 6'06" man dressed as a woman, shopping for jewelry. If you can't have a little fun, what's the point? She was so nice. I thought it was hilarious.

[Tracii G]

Our own attitude when people ask questions or as some call "challenging" is a big thing.
Just be friendly and answer their questions and not act like its a big deal and it probably won't be a big deal.
No reason to get mad or be embarrassed and run off with your tail between your legs just be friendly and most people will be nice back.
Of course you might run across a douche nozzle like I did and have to deal with them harshly but thats pretty rare.

[IleneD]

Laura, darling.
A bold, brave post.
I absolutely love your courage.
Thank you.

[dolovewell]

After reading this thread, I think we need to realize, that even though many of us have been "challenged" in public, I think we can all agree that it is very rare.

I've probably been out in public 25 times or so dressed? And have encountered thousands of people. And yet, out of all those people, only a small group of teenagers said anything.

Don't be afraid to step out in public because there is a minute chance that someone will verbally say something negative about you.

[Teresa]

Ilene,
The manageress of the charity shop where I bought some heels from asked me to show a picture when I wore them to go out, I was wearing them with a full length ballgown. While she was looking at them an assistant from the back of the shop glanced over our shoulders, she didn't believe it was me in the picture then she added I wish I could look as good as that when I go out, we all had a good laugh over that one.

[Paulette]

I have been going out to main stream venues for many years and have not any negative reactions. I like many of the other ladies on this forum dress to blend. Wearing the same clothes as GG's are wearing for the venue or activity is the key to smooth sailing in the real world. Just as I posted on the clothing forum last night I went out to dinner and a movie with a GG friend of mine. My look was one of a career woman just getting off work and meeting a friend for dinner. I wore dress slacks, riffle blouse, pink jacket, and 3 inch black pumps. This outfit would fit in any professional setting so it worked perfectly. When I went shopping for this out fit I was wearing crop jeans, sandals (toenails painted) and a tunic top. I fit right in with the rest of the female shoppers. I have always been gendered properly for the way I am dressed and I always sport the best smile I have which I think is the key to my success. Head up chest out shoulders back relax your hips and plant a big smile on your face and look people in the eye when you meet them.

[dolovewell]

Paulette great advice there at the end, should be bolded, the smile part

When I am out, I never have my mouth closed. At the very least its open, and most of the time I am smiling. Having your mouth closed will square up your jaw more and emphasize it, not to mention make you look unhappy and/or nervous. Opening your mouth rounds out your jaw, slims your face and makes it longer. Smiling will soften and brighten up your face overall, give it a glow and will let others know you are not nervous at all and they are more likely to be comfortable around you should they read you male.

Don't shy away from eye contact, embrace it. Trying to avoid eye contact will make you come across as nervous.

[Lorileah]

3" heels are dressed to blend?

Yeah, as far as the "blend" thing, sorta like people who wear camouflage in the woods. People not looking to see them, won't. Those who are looking pick them out. So just "blending" won't save you. Common thought here is that you get "made" a lot more than you think. I agree, it's just that people have their own agenda and you aren't part of it. There was mention of pack mentality. That's where we fail. Once someone targets you, the rest of their group will circle.

A few things I have learned in...7 years here. One, macho in a dress won't save you. 6' tall just makes you a bigger target. Being 6' in a dress alone, makes you and easy big target, especially for groups. Challenging people in that situation can easily turn bad...for you. Those Bruce Lee scenes of him fighting of 5 others...well that's Bruce Lee. Once they have you in a compromising position, you're toast. Short, non-confrontational answers, if you feel you need to answer at all. Yes, No, maybe...then walk away...and as a veterinarian let me add...never turn your back if you feel threatened, walk so you can see at least with peripheral vision. Some quips are funny "I am more of a man than you will ever be..." is a challenge and some will take that as such. Questioning another person's sexuality, especially one who is insecure, will get you attacked. And remember, you are dressed as a woman...that attack may not stop with punches and kicks.

"Whichever one of yall who wants the time of your life!"

is asking for trouble. Oh and that trouble may not come at the jewelry counter at that moment...but there is a big parking lot or garage you need to navigate.

I don't think many here have been scared for their lives. It is in reality a safe world...usually. But there are those who still see "us" as less than human or as targets. I used to say "Hey I'm 6 feet tall and 185 pounds...who's gonna mess with me?" Probably someone who is 6'6" and 240 and has a major chip on their shoulder you just tried to knock off. Careful and smart beats bold and brassy everyday. Walk away and keep it to yourself. In my story above, I went to my hotel, locked the door and held my breath. There were a dozen young people gathered...they saw me alone...they knew I was in that hotel (that had open doors at that time of day). Nothing happened but it was possible and a 60 year old person, male or female, stands little chance against 6 teenage men who have something to prove.

[dolovewell]

Lorileah, that's a scary post, but its accurate. It's why I don't get why so many here are so eager to go out dressed in risky places. There is a reason I generally stick to malls, stores, coffee shops, restaurants, and safer places when I go out dressed and avoid places like bars, clubs, casinos and walking the streets of downtown. It doesn't matter where you live either - people think living in large LGBT places like San Francisco will automatically mean you are safe, you aren't. A progressive city won't save you. I live in Portland and have offices in Seattle and I still wouldn't feel safe going out dressed downtown on a Friday Night in either city. Your stereotypical macho frat boy jock type who is more likely to cause you serious trouble will exist in every city and will frequent every bar and club. I know because in male mode, people consider me to be a stereotypical macho frat boy jock type.

I also agree with Lorileah about trading barbs with people who give you a hard time. Just ignore them. The one time I got humiliated, it was a group of about 20 hoodlum teenagers. What if I had engaged with them instead? They didn't look like honor roll students and if they decided to fight back it would have been 20 on 1 with only a handful of employees who could have intervened. If they didn't fight, what if they had family members who were in gangs or something? It's not worth it. Yeah, I could have said something in the safety of JC Penney, but like Lorileah said, there is a parking lot and you still have to get to your car.

Lastly, I agree that 3 inch heels are not a good shoe to wear for blending purposes, unless you are going out to some kind of nightlife. I am already 6 feet tall so I don't need any extra height. I wear 2 inch heels, max, occassionally and even then I think thats going a bit too far when it comes to going to a place like a grocery store.

[Jessica86]

See I think you are right for prevention Lorileah and Dolove. What about when it happens? I would rather draw attention to myself as I did in that situation above. A man in a dress about to get into a fight? There will be a dozen iphones out for videos. My scenario happened in daylight....close to a SA who was helping me. There were others there too. Im 6 06 so Im a big target? Yeah I am! A big target of attention if I need it! Thats how you ensure your safety. Get as much attention as you can. Engaging 20 "hoodlums"? Come on. Is anyone that dumb? Would you engage them as a guy? But why were you there? Sounds like the wrong side of town to me. Take the long way around.

I dont want guests reading your posts and gathering a notion of the world is out to get you because you dress in public. That is not true. I have had many encounters turn violent as a man. Not one as Jessica has been bad. Just use common sense. Have you ever seen a gg split a group of 20 hoodlums? No. They walk around. You dress like thrm why not think like them? Be observant. Dont believe people are hunting you down in the PL of a mall during the day. I will stand my ground and get attention. I say this because I dont walk past groups of men. Even in the mall I will just take the closest crossover if I see a bunch coming. Common sense girls.

[Lorileah]

And common sense says...walk away or don't respond. Make yourself safe first

In my case, "why" was I there (I was trying not to disparage Oakland any more than needed but...) I was at a hotel, in Jack London Square, a jewel in Oakland's crown for tourist areas. It was still light out. I was 100 feet from my hotel (which claims to be high class). I walked to the ferry dock and back. The encounter happened next to the hotel's patio. Go around You also don't know Dolove's situation. 20 teens can and DO hang out in places you should feel secure (let me rap Denver for a minute...16th street mall). Common sense. An acquaintance was attacked and beaten on one of Denver's main drags...no one saw it (or saw who broke into my car under a street lamp on that same street). Go around...even suburbia has groups of bored teens. You say if you see them coming. One of our members here was attacked not so long ago. She didn't see it coming. In daylight. In public. (you can search and find her post) You never see it coming. Talk to the women who have been attacked, in parking garages, in broad daylight. You don't walk past groups of men, I'll assume you don't live in an urban setting. Then again, going around is great for the legs. Are people hunting you down? Depends where you live (refer to Boys Don't Cry). Here in Denver...not likely. Other parts of the US, very much so. Every woman learns to be aware. People here in some cases didn't get that memo and they think a sarcastic remark is a good defense. Specifically, what you said, could have been taken as an insult to those "country boys". All the iPhones in the world wouldn't have stopped that sucker punch...nor the SA. The correct move for that SA would have been to call management, but she laughed with you. Also, I see you're in Texas, wanna see how protected you are? "The state's hate crime law only includes sexual orientation, not gender identity. That means, according to state law, violence that targets transgender people because they are transgender is not a hate crime. " But then, you did intimate you were gay.

I can promise you that had anything happened in my case, it is unlikely anyone would have stepped in. What is common sense? Don't say something that will rile the bull

[Jessica86]

The word used was hoodlums. Quoted. 20 hoodlums. I dont see hoodlums at the mall in a pack of 20. I dont see males in a pack of 20 either...lol. I see kids in a pack of twenty at the Gamestop. Couples in packs of 20 at the food court. No hoodlums...as they were called. I will walk around a group if ten or so guys with foul mouths pants saggin covered in tats. I think every other woman would too. Maybe thats why my legs are killer?
To speak about your common sense post....so common sense says let history repeat itself? A second pass....and you say walk? Wow. They came BACK for me. What part of that do you not get? Im not saying do what I do because its foolproof. No. In that instance it was an attention getter and worked quite well. If people are following you harassing you PLEASE get some attention fast. The last thing you should do is walk to your car.....a tool they can use to relocate you!
So walk and let them follow you outside with less witnesses and easy to force you into a car to be violated or worse....is your solution. Even worse there is no surveilance so you have to describe specifically what happened...recalling every horrific detail. Ehhh...I will gladly take that sucker punch over the other options. Wouldnt be the first and wont be last.
See how protected I am? Hate crime? Wont get into what a useless law that is because of technicalities in the verbage making it an almost never filed case because of difficulty of prosecution. Thats why we do not have it yet. Its coming but different versions were shot down because of verbage issues seen by other states. The best offense is a good defense. Well that works the other way too.
Im trying to figure out how you are helping people stay safe by telling them walk away from every situation? It makes things more dangerous to me. There is a time to walk. I have done that many times. In a case where they are persistent like I stated I believe you get attention. A lot of it. Quick. Then again I might be alone in this belief. Again I have never had a bad experience as Jessica either. I have to agree to disagree with you that walking is the be all end all solution you present it to be.

[donnalee]

I'm afraid you're misquoting George Washington who said "The best defense is a good offense."

As to Lorileah's complaint about Oakland and as one who has lived there nearly 50 years, you have to be able to read the street before you get yourself in trouble, as you obviously did. A little research would have told you that Oakland has been in the top 10 per-capita murders for the past few decades; it is not a place for foolish mistakes and you're lucky you're still alive to complain about it. I am pretty safe because I take proper precautions and know what to watch out for, but when you don't it will cost you. This applies to any urban environment.

[Rogina B]

Id rather jump off the Space Needle than put myself in an environment where i was dressed in the presence of half drunk horny men

Most people behave in a tolerable and predictable manner. Gives you insight as to why most [other than cage fighters and martial artists lol] genetic women never put themselves into those situations...alone.

[ellbee]

I get what some are saying, but here's the thing...


We are *not* GG's!


For the most part, most of us most of the time who experience this kind of stuff isn't because we were thought to be GG's the whole time -- but males presenting as such.

*That's* why we were targeted in those situations.

And the motive & behavior of the other party reflects that, which differs on a number of levels compared to what a GG might experience.

[Jessica86]

I'm afraid you're misquoting George Washington who said "The best defense is a good offense."
.

.........

[Rogina B]

laurababe... Happy to take you out and teach away your fears of existing in the mainstream world... It really isn't scary !

[Georgette_USA]

I have not been challenged since my first going out some 40 years ago.

After my SRS and going out with men, some things are always in your mind. Some men don't like being told NO. After some years I was worried that someday someone would have questions. TS was rare in those days, but that was NO guarantee of safety.

But that is not to say that being a woman out and alone is not to be safe either. Women do get harassed and assaulted and raped and even killed sometimes.

One should always be aware of their surroundings and situations.

[Luci]

Awesome answer Phoebe Reece

[Jesse Six]

Lorileah, yes! You have a very real attitude about it, and I'm also mindful of antagonizing men.
Not scared to live my life, just deliberate about how I act. If a guy is making a comment, my 'go-to' response is a raised eyebrow and a bored stare, not a scathing comeback that would publicly humiliate him.

A challenge from us (perceived to be weak men) is much more humiliating than a challenge from a regular man. If you challenge a guy in drab mode, he might choose to say "whatever". If you challenge him in girl mode, it's a dagger to the heart of his masculinity.

Oh and y'all know how boys are taught that it's "not nice to hit girls"? Those protections don't apply when it comes to us. I don't feel like my dress and makeup is of any use against a guy that I just emasculated in front of his friends. Hell, even if I had SRS, it would be the same.

[ellbee]

laurababe... Happy to take you out and teach away your fears of existing in the mainstream world... It really isn't scary !

Thanks for the offer, but I've already been out there for a good 20 years now -- and counting.


No fear. Just being honest & realistic.

[Rogina B]

Laurababe,I would have not expected you to support the "angry mobs with torches and forks" mentality !

[Beverley Sims]

I had the reverse going into s a shop that I regularly patronised as a man, buying womens dresses etc.

When I went in as a woman I had to prompt her as to who I was, this was done by recalling recent discussions with her and in the end deliberately lowering my voice.

What I find unnervingly strange in these circumstances is the establishment of your true identity.

I was chuffed on this occasion as she did not see me as a man in a skirt until I had established my identity.

To answer the question.... NO

Just avoid teenage girls in the mall after school.

[CD Tammy]

Many years ago, I encountered a CD at an event. It was absolutely the first time that I had ever seen someone dressed. I badly wanted to talk to her for a few minutes and tell her that I was wearing pantyhose under my suit. But I lacked the nerve.

[ellbee]

Laurababe,I would have not expected you to support the "angry mobs with torches and forks" mentality !

So, if someone either experiences something themselves, or reads about even just one person who has had a less than 100%-positive experience, and they acknowledge that simple & very real fact, all of a sudden they're labelled as that?

Wow.


So where does this extreme dichotomous way of thinking come from, that I see here sometimes?


Kinda reminds me of the "dressing-up-on-Halloween-for-the-first-time-in-public" threads.