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Thread: Campbell Soup Spiderman Commericial

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    Junior Member Krystalina's Avatar
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    Angry Campbell Soup Spiderman Commericial

    I would have posted this in my regular places of Facebook, but I already frighten people away with my war on institutionalized racism, not to mention the usual lack of open-minded individuals...i.e. if I start pointing out this gender double standard, homophobes, many if not all my loved ones, would be more focused on why I'm pointing this out(I haven't told anyone about my love for crossdressing) as opposed to the double standard itself.

    There is this otherwise great Campbell Soup commercial featuring a child in a Spider-Man costume doing the usual child antics with imagination, which ends with the child pulling off the mask to reveal a girl underneath. A quick scan of the Internet, as well as the YouTube comments, showcased unlimited support...the girl was breaking down gender barriers(although there are actual female counterparts to Spider-Man to begin with, for one thing), all the usual pats on the back, nothing about perversion or anything.

    It just annoyed me. A woman putting on male clothes is not exactly breaking down gender barriers. But what if the commercial had a young boy wanting to be Elsa(FROZEN) or even Emma Swan(ONCE UPON A TIME)? That is the commericial I would want to see, and if anyone in the mainstream would come forth and say he is breaking down gender barriers.

    To showcase the hypocrisy even more, YOUTUBE had a commericial with a young man who dressed in women's clothing at the end of it. The cool thing about this is that there is really no context: he could have been a crossdresser, androgynous, going to a costume party, transgendered, etc. Yet, the comments were vastly different, with people whining about "oh, they are pushing this on me". What a load of garbage.

  2. #2
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    In the 1990's Marvel had a futuristic spin off series of the female offspring of Peter and Mary Jane Parker inheriting Peter's spider powers as the Amazing Spider Girl. She kind of made mistakes like Peter did in the beginning but otherwise a bona fide spider person, complete with costumes and super villains. And the spider legacy lived on. Works for me because I'm an adventuress myself.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krystalina View Post
    ...It just annoyed me. A woman putting on male clothes is not exactly breaking down gender barriers. But what if the commercial had a young boy wanting to be Elsa(FROZEN) or even Emma Swan(ONCE UPON A TIME)? That is the commericial I would want to see, and if anyone in the mainstream would come forth and say he is breaking down gender barriers.....
    I think the context is different. The Spiderman "costume" is actually androgynous. It covers all and has no clothing "norm" reference. The Elsa and Emma DO have clothing "norm" references. A dress is a dress. Perhaps the proper comparison is Catwoman. I think it's fair to state that a boy could not wear that in a commercial.

    I think the key here is that it's ok for girls to be "strong" or show strength, but boys/men can not show weakness, which is implied in a dress or other female clothing. A double standard that fair or unfair, is real and pervasive and won't go away any time soon.
    Last edited by Jenniferathome; 10-25-2016 at 06:08 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    Jennifer is right. It will take a long time for all the hate, ignorance, and bigotry to settle down. All we can do is do what we do! Hugs Lana Mae
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    Sandra - New Dresser
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    I agree with Jennifer, though maybe not with the end statement - femininity is weakness culturally, so it is not okay to show. This is something my wife and I have discussed a lot, and a lot more since my revelation to her a few months ago: It's okay to want to be a boy, but only girls can want to be girls. I do, however, think there are ways to fight this, and with everything, it starts with kids. I'm really working on my nephews to instill in them the notion that being a girls is just as important and valuable and laudable as being a boy. My favorite way is to use the wrong honorific - sir or madam - and have them respond negatively then ask what is wrong about being a girl. I don't want to force understanding on them, but at least get them thinking.

    Man, this topic gets me excited; I really hope this next generation has a real chance at acceptance on a larger scale.

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  6. #6
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    It’s not about a little girl dressing like a boy, Krystalina. It’s what the costume represents - the inner self.

    Superman symbolizes strength and power. Can-do attitude. Confidence. Hero. Even more than Supergirl did. She was always second banana to Superman anyway, which girls don't aspire to anymore.

    It’s what we aspire BOTH our girls AND boys to be now. We want them ALL to be strong, confident, capable people. Trouble is, girls traditionally have had some catching up to do. They’re getting there, but Campbell appeals to the message that we are all giving our daughters nowadays, which is that they no longer need to live with any gender barriers in their careers and their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystalina View Post
    But what if the commercial had a young boy wanting to be Elsa(FROZEN) or even Emma Swan(ONCE UPON A TIME)? That is the commericial I would want to see, and if anyone in the mainstream would come forth and say he is breaking down gender barriers.
    He doesn’t have to be Elsa or Emma. He doesn't have to break down gender barriers for himself, he's already there! ... unless he wants to support a female Superman. He’s already a boy, so he’s got the historical privilege of power already. Again, it's not about the clothes.

    You might say, if we tell our girls it is good to be strong (Superman, Elsa, etc), then shouldn’t we tell our boys it is OK to be weak? But then why would anyone want to aspire to that - and I don’t think there are any weak characters out there that kids might want to be.

    (Note, it’s OK for everyone to be in touch with the full breadth of human emotion when they need to. Everyone is sad or afraid sometimes. There’s no shame in that, for either girls or boys. But these are private moments shared with family or good friends. Both girls and boys are not disavowing their ability to be human, just because they want to portray characters that have courage and strength.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Curiouser&Curiouser View Post
    Man, this topic gets me excited; I really hope this next generation has a real chance at acceptance on a larger scale.
    A lot of them are there already.
    Last edited by ReineD; 10-26-2016 at 12:54 AM.
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  7. #7
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    I'm in agreement with Reine. We only assume the person in the Spiderman costume is a male because that has been the sex of the character since Spiderman's inception. There's is nothing male or female about the costume. Is it necessary to dress up a young boy in a skirt and blouse or dress with ribbons in his hair to sell an "Easy Bake Oven?" Wouldn't the message that baking is an enjoyable activity be better conveyed with a boy dressed as a boy and a girl as a girl? It would be totally counter productive to dress the boy as a girl because it would convey the misconception baking is a "girlie:" or feminine activity.

  8. #8
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    He doesn’t have to be Elsa or Emma. He doesn't have to break down gender barriers for himself, he's already there! ... unless he wants to support a female Superman. He’s already a boy, so he’s got the historical privilege of power already. Again, it's not about the clothes.
    You might say, if we tell our girls it is good to be strong (Superman, Elsa, etc), then shouldn’t we tell our boys it is OK to be weak? But then why would anyone want to aspire to that
    Perhaps just more misconceptions.
    It's not about aspiring to be 'weak'. It's about being perfectly ok with aspiring to be something other than the most dominant person in every situation. For boys, it's always a pecking order about who's the most successful, the strongest, the fastest, and of course, the toughest. Until women start finding men attractive who are in roles and jobs that traditionally AND CURRENTLY are only seen acceptable for females, there certainly IS a gender barrier in place.

    I don’t think there are any weak characters out there that kids might want to be.
    Again, it's not 'weak' characters. It's ANY female one. Any boy who wants to be the little mermaid, Jasmine, Belle, Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel, Pocahontas, etc., will be ridiculed. They are not 'weak' characters; they simply don't always display what are the only acceptable masculine traits.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenniferathome View Post
    ........ I think the key here is that it's ok for girls to be "strong" or show strength, but boys/men can not show weakness, which is implied in a dress or other female clothing. A double standard that fair or unfair, is real and pervasive and won't go away any time soon.
    Yep, that's the answer. A female can move "up" but a male cannot move "down".

  10. #10
    Southern Girl dolovewell's Avatar
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    I think you are being outraged for the sake of being outraged.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    You might say, if we tell our girls it is good to be strong (Superman, Elsa, etc), then shouldn’t we tell our boys it is OK to be weak? But then why would anyone want to aspire to that - and I don’t think there are any weak characters out there that kids might want to be.
    In line with what Curiouser and Krisi said, this repeats our cultural stereotype that girls are weak, and therefore nobody would aspire to be one. This is the very thing the commercial is striving to overcome by saying that girls can be just as strong as boys and play the same roles.

    The company was probably looking for some way to say that they're 'changing with the times' and that their product is still 'relevant' and I'm guessing they picked this one because it's progressive in an acceptable way. Some companies are now even running ads that show gay couples (which still gets some segments of society hot under the collar), but the idea of a boy in a dress is not one that they're ready for yet. In this sense I agree with the OP that it does reflect society's hypocrisy about gender and gender roles. There are still only a few ways you can show a man in a traditionally female role (e.g. chef, male nurse) but I for one look forward to seeing an ad that puts a boy or man in a dress in a way that looks good rather than as some sort of stereotype.

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    I think it would be wise to consider that the purpose of this commercial is to sell soup and nothing more. The "girl in a boy's costume" thing is only to get the public to remember the commercial and buy more soup.

    I've seen commercials with a guy in a female costume and bi-racial couples or families are big these days. It's all to get people to buy a product. Nothing more.

    Personally, I usually use the commercial time to browse through the guide to see what I want to watch next.

  13. #13
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    Considering Campbell's has been portraying inclusive tropes in recent history, I get what they're getting at with this; it's in the same vein as the "Meet Alex" billboard from The Body Shop, with the exact same fundamental assumption.

    Sadly, most male-to-female crossdressing in modern media seems to be either played for comedic value (in the 'laughing at' sense), or is sexualised - occasionally positively, but still mostly in the 'pervert' sense.

  14. #14
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    So... you're outraged that a commercial that advances one group's cause doesn't do anything for your group? Do you protest Caesar Chavez day because he didn't do anything for TG rights? How about down with Lincoln because he didn't give women the vote?

    A commercial about women's empowerment is apples to your gender ID oranges.

  15. #15
    Member Jesse Six's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    You might say, if we tell our girls it is good to be strong (Superman, Elsa, etc), then shouldn’t we tell our boys it is OK to be weak? But then why would anyone want to aspire to that - and I don’t think there are any weak characters out there that kids might want to be.
    You're suggesting that anyone that doesn't aspire to be a hero is weak.

    This isn't about "aspiring to be weak". It's about being "allowed to not be aggressive."

    It's because not every person wants to be a warrior. It's not in their personality. There are plenty of people that are confident and brave, but want nothing to do with competition. If that person happens to be female, they're allowed to do that - our society has a role for women who prefer to nurture, not fight. If they're male, there is no such equivalent role - they're judged to be a failure.


    Do you think the reason that many girls aren't interested in violent movies or games is because they're weak? What if that girl is a boy, is he allowed the same latitude?
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  16. #16
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    Why do things like this upset CDers

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    It doesn't upset me one bit. It's a soup commercial. Nothing more, nothing less.

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    Sounds like social justice warrior stuff.
    Institutional racism? Really?

    If you don't like the commercial email Campbell's soup and say something

  19. #19
    Silver Member Jodi's Avatar
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    I've seen this commercial many times and all I saw was a cute commercial. I guess I'm not really keyed in.

    jodi

  20. #20
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    So...here's what I am getting. A girl dresses as a superhero. The people here don't like it because they can't dress as a princess (dunno who made that rule but ...OK). So someone explains that is empowering and someone else retorts that girls can move up but boys can't move down (again dunno whose rules those are but...OK). Then someone asks why you get all butt hurt because you have barriers in your own mind and that it should be seen as a positive but you reply you can't because some unknown force has made the rules.

    Let's address some of this.

    No one says you can't be a princess, or a frog, or a rock or whatever. YOU say you can't do those those things. Yet, you make no effort to go against that unknown force (as the little girl and her parents evidently did) to break a stereotype you find unfair (Tracii did suggest you do this).

    Ok the weak/strong thing. I find it incredibly strong for someone to stand up to injustice. Has nothing to do with gender or physical strength. I find it incredibly strong to be a parent who raises a child no matter what gender they are. I find it incredibly strong for a man to be a nurse or teacher or admin assistant. How do you get the idea that if you do something you become weaker (Not talking physically...I am talking emotionally or intelligence or even hierarchy). Once again, I am amazed how so many here hold outdated ideals of what is power and what is weakness. Also the argument of women can but we can't has become threadbare. You can't because you won't. You won't change what "is" until you stand up against it.

    I wish I could post a mirror so you all can see who your biggest barrier is. You know the cliches. one drop begins to wear the boulder. one voice can break the silence., even a small wind can topple a tree.

    You don't like how things "are" work to change them.

    Or complain how your life sucks....your choice
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    Lorileah, this, "No one says you can't be a princess,..." is disingenuous.

    Society "says" boys can't dress like girls. While unwritten, it is abundantly clear through deeds and actions that this cultural norm is real. Now, does one have to accept it? No. But it's pervasiveness can't be ignored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Six View Post
    You're suggesting that anyone that doesn't aspire to be a hero is weak....
    Come on, Reine did NOT suggest nor intimate this. She only commented that no one aspires to be weak.

  22. #22
    tiptoeing thru the tulips ellbee's Avatar
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    Had to see what all the hub-bub was about...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Lm886PPPA




    Well, I guess they are officially calling it "Spider-Man Soups"


    Eh, just seems like some large corp trying to be edgy -- without being *too* edgy.

    Wake me up when they reverse the roles. I'd love to see all the "positive" comments from the general public on that one!

  23. #23
    Curmudgeon Member donnalee's Avatar
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    Or could it be that Campbells thought they could double their market by including girls in that commercial.
    ALWAYS plan for the worst, then you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens!

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  24. #24
    Member Jane P's Avatar
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    Commercials like this make me think only one thing ...

    Mmmm , soup!
    I don't know why , but I am .

  25. #25
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Six View Post
    You're suggesting that anyone that doesn't aspire to be a hero is weak.
    No.

    I was pointing out that Campbells is not making a statement about crossdressing. It's not about the clothes, it's about the inner self. Campbells applauds women's changing roles in society. Women are all but closing the gender gap (except for salaries), by making great inroads in academia and in the work force toward being accepted as equally capable as men. Men haven't been moving the other way. They don't need to, they're already there. This is a social issue, not a presentation issue.

    The OP chose an example of opposites: a girl in a Superman suit vs. a boy dressed as Elsa. I wanted to point out that the opposite of a strong inner self is weakness and not an Elsa costume.

    We don't have to be heroes in order to be strong.

    And if a boy wants to dress like Elsa for Halloween, I actually admire his courage because his male peers will give him a hard time over it. No matter how much we all wish that all men could present as women without anyone raising an eyebrow, the rest of the population simply isn't there, because most men do not want to present as women.

    That said, young people are increasingly doing away with gendered differences in the last remaining gendered area, which is clothing and hairstyles. This is a good thing. But, unisex styling is not as feminine as many members here would like, I'm afraid. Unisex clothing tends to be not traditionally feminine or masculine.

    EDIT - Just looked at the Campbell's Spiderman commercial. LOVE it!

    An annecdote: today I spoke to a 22 yr-old female art education major about Barbie dolls. I asked if they had them in secondary roles when she was a little girl (secretary outfits, airline stewardess, or in pink, flimsy little skirts, etc). She said they did and for this reason her mother encouraged other toys. But, she did have a few Barbie dolls, which she engaged in battle with her twin brother and his GI Joes. I asked her who won the battles, and she said she did. I gave her a high 5.

    And look at all these great gender-neutral toys! The gender barriers are breaking down here too, because these little boys will need to grow up learning how to share childcare and household responsibilities with their wives! This is one area of "boys going the other way" that I missed earlier, but again it's not about dressing like a girl.

    http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp...-top-toy-5.jpg
    http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/Cars.jpg
    http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/im...1129132050.jpg

    Not to mention musical intruments, arts & crafts, science sets, books, gameboys, etc.
    Last edited by ReineD; 10-28-2016 at 01:37 AM.
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