So I went out dressed tonight, I don't think I'm a super model but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably passable. Strolling both downtown and the mall I caught a LOT of women checking me out. And not just quick glances, but almost stares. The I caught would just give the quick glance and look away. Has anyone experienced this before? I've never looked for it before, do the women check out other women all the time or are they just much better at spotting a man in sheep's clothing??
IMO, GG's are a heck of a lot better at reading us than guys are.
Honestly, I don't believe I've ever passed with a GG before, at least in person (but have in photos) -- yet *have* passed (either confirmed or highly suspected) with some guys in certain settings.
I'm probably guessing the GG's in your case were simply curious and/or trying to figure you out (CD? TS?)
Then again, I wasn't there, and wasn't in their heads, LOL.
I would have just caught their stare, smiled & said hi!
Does it matter? We have to accept that we are uncommon, so that person looking at you for an extra second round two may be seeing a CD for the first time. What really matters is their reactions after the look. If they continue their own business uninterrupted, it says our presentation is "No big deal" to them. That's what we want, isn't it?
I feel like my being dressed in public serves two purposes. First, I love my femininity and the feeling of freedom I get just being myself out of the house. Second, I try to dress and act as though I am an ambassador for all my sisters in the crossdresssing community, hopefully showing the muggles we are worthy of respect, not to be reviled or ridiculed or persecuted. So, there may be some looks and even stares, but what what they see is a man who knows how to put an outfit together and is proud of how he looks in a dress, however unusual he may be.
I think GGs are better at reading us, but in my experience, men are more likely to stare. I think that's why women don't stare, because they "figure it out" quicker, plus they are more understanding. Men always seem to be confused, hence why they stare.
I know my past 2 trips to the grocery store dressed up, I have been stared at by men to the point where it makes me a bit uncomfortable and just want to burst out "Take a picture, it will last longer". Last week there were 2 guys in the store who would stare at me every chance they got. One was with his wife and the other one was by himself. The store wasn't busy so it seemed like every aisle I went down, so they would be in the aisle too. I wound up behind one of them at a checkout lane and of course he just stared at me multiple times.
Today there was just one guy who stared at me. He stared at me for a few seconds, then went on his way down an aisle. Then he peaked his head back out of the aisle back toward me to get a 2nd look. I made eye contact with him and caught him looking.
I don't know but I just don't understand getting stared at. What are you trying to achieve? You figured out something is off, good for you. No need to keep staring and treat me like a sideshow. No manners or class at all.
It wasn't all bad today though. As I was walking into a Kohl's there were 2 teenage girls to my left who both looked at me and gave me a smile. I am sure they figured it out, but the smile assured me that they had a positive reaction.
For the most part, I have come to embrace stares, as long as you just do it once and its not a long one. What I hate are the people who stare at you multiple times, or gaze at you for way too long.
28 years old, 6' tall, 155 pounds
Measurements: 33 bust-28 waist-37 hips
Dress Size: 6, Bra Band Size: 34
My experience has been that women absolutely notice where men tend to not but when a guy does notice, he is
more likely to stare whereas women look using peripheral vision. If a woman is really looking at me she tends to smile and make a comment about my clothes or hair, etc.
I agree with Jennifer. And I think most men stare at length once they figure what is going on.
It is what I want, personally. I don't mind being stared at - but there comes a point where you have done enough staring. Women for the most part don't over-stare. Men do.Does it matter? We have to accept that we are uncommon, so that person looking at you for an extra second round two may be seeing a CD for the first time. What really matters is their reactions after the look. If they continue their own business uninterrupted, it says our presentation is "No big deal" to them. That's what we want, isn't it?
My experience has been that women absolutely notice where men tend to not but when a guy does notice, he is
more likely to stare whereas women look using peripheral vision. If a woman is really looking at me she tends to smile and make a comment about my clothes or hair, etc.Both of these mirror my experiences. Women will figure it out quickly - but they will be discreet if they want another look.I agree with Jennifer. And I think most men stare at length once they figure what is going on.
Men... they will stare at you like you are the first and only crossdresser they have ever seen and will ever see.
28 years old, 6' tall, 155 pounds
Measurements: 33 bust-28 waist-37 hips
Dress Size: 6, Bra Band Size: 34
Sorry to laugh at your unfortunate experience, but...Originally Posted by dolovewell
Gotta admit, that's probably one for your 2016 CD Highlight Reel!
Anyway, it's been my experience that men can have all kinds of different stares when it comes to this, with quite a wide range. Sometimes you can tell which type, sometimes you can reasonably assume, and other times you've got no clue what's going on.
Obviously we know guys are visual creatures. And if you make a halfway-decent-looking chick, yet they still know at least something is a bit "off"? Yeah, good chance you're going to confuse the heck out of them, in a number of ways, perhaps even at a deep fundamental level that can shake them to the core. Basically, they expect to see certain things on a GG, which they like. But now that they're seeing those same things on someone who looks to be a non-GG, yet it's still, dare I say, attractive to them??
Yeah, messes with their head just a wee bit.
And no, I'm not saying it's intentional on our part, or it's malicious or anything. It just can be an odd & interesting by-product of all this.
Eventually I kinda-sorta got used to all the different stares from guys, for the most part, and even began to recognize & classify them accordingly. Part of me still didn't care for it, at some level. At the same time, it can be a sort of validation, too.
And there was really only one instance where it was just freaky as all heck. I was sitting at a table at a hetero club with a mixed crowd of friends, apparently looking pretty good, according to others, since I can be really critical of my own self. Some guy sitting at the bar the whole time, seemed to be by himself, kept looking at me & looking at me & looking at me, over & over again, with this lustful look on his face & in his eyes. I'm thinking, "Come on, man. Really? Just stop, already." Just the way he was doing it, it's almost as if I could read his mind knowing exactly what he wanted to do, but couldn't work up enough courage, so instead just pictured it in his head, creating his own fantasy, and only working himself up even more. And I'm not so sure he realized I was a guy, either, no joke. Even mentioned it to one of my good gay male friends, figuring he'd understand, and he just brushed it off like, "Ah, whatever, you look good tonight! Of course you're going to get some attention!
Yeah, other instances were a bit weird or creepy or made me uncomfortable. But I was literally scared to death with this one. And I don't scare easily. To make matters worse, he was a pretty tough-looking dude, too.
Anyway, I started to consciously make it a point to sit next to the biggest & manliest of my male friends there that night, and made sure I talked to him a lot more the rest of our time there -- hoping the guy sitting at the bar would notice, figure my friend & I were an item, and just finally cut the crap. He eventually did -- for a while. Then started right back up again a little later on. Kind of ruined what should have been an otherwise fun night for me.
Honestly? Part of me wanted to sneak up behind him when he wasn't looking, put my mouth up to his ear, and say in my deepest manliest voice, "You like what you see, buddy?"
Then maybe give his butt a nice squeeze.
But decided I didn't want to end up in the hospital that night.
Last edited by ellbee; 11-06-2016 at 01:02 AM.
When I am dressed as a girl, there is no way you can tell I'm a guy. If I could figure out how to post photos on this site, you would understand..
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Wow, I can't believe they posted one of my replies on this site. I have tried quite a few before and they never got posted.
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Jennifer, you do look really sharp. You're like me in the way we dress and put on our makeup, you can't tell there's a guy in those pretty clothes and makeup!
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Hey girl, Khol's has some of the best tops and skater skirts - especially for the look and price. They always have great discounts and 20 and 30% additional mailings that they send you as well. I feel really comfortable in that store buying my girl stuff. They cashiers are always really nice. I'm always dressed as a guy when I'm in there buying my skirts and tops and the cashiers never give my any kind of uncomfortable looks. I really like the junior's department!
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I wish I could be dressed out in public more than twice a year but that's only the amount of time my wife is out of town on business. She still had no idea I am a cross dresser.
Jordan,
They really do check you out, they may not be thinking if you're a CDer as much as checking your outfit out , also in my case they appear to have a fixation about legs, that's if you're showing them. I've had so many comments about my legs and how much the wish they had them even my daughter made that comment a couple of days ago.
I’ll say this: women, when they figure-out you’re a guy in a dress, can really go bananas and make a scene: the ULTIMATE YUPPIE.
Beware of them and don’t waste your time engaging them in a conversation, just walk away quickly and get in your car and leave.
Cheryl,
I probably don't have a ton of experience that demographic, and maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never had an issue with them (or should I say, them with me). Though I have heard they exist, and can make quite a stink about this sometimes. Women's restrooms can be a sore spot for them, for example, from what I recall.
I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I've found GG's, overall, to be pretty awesome with all this with me -- or at the very least, neutral about it. There's only been one acquaintance who, although had never seen me all dolled-up, had found out about it through the grapevine, and she was not very cool with it. Sort of surprising, really, because I had always thought of her as pretty open-minded & free-spirited, *and* she was on the younger side. We still got along afterwards, but things had definitely shifted because of it. Haven't talked in ages, though... Just a typical drifting away. No biggie, ha!
Anyway, I'm wondering if the OP simply perceived the looks from GG's to be longer than they actually were, like time slowed down for her as that happened, and felt like it was going on forever when it really didn't.
Would be interested in hearing more details about these GG stares.
When GGs stare are me, I'm thinking that they are checking me out with three things on their mind:
- how does that guy manage to look so well put together as a female?
- how can a guy get to be so good at walking on 4" heels?
- How can it be fair that he has better legs than I do?
Okay, seriously now: yes, GGs will 'clock' me faster than guys, but I usually sense a stronger reaction from the (fewer) men that read me than the GGs who (more frequently) read me.
In my experiences women spot me right off and know but I usually get a friendly smile and we go on our way unless we are looking at the same type of item and shoulder to shoulder, we generally have some type of interaction. I tend to dress a bit above casual because I go from one venue to another and want to present nicely so many times my heels will click on the floor and automatically turn heads, mostly women, so glances and stares are just part of my outings and I keep on going about my day being my self. Ohh yeah I get men stares also but quick 1 or 2 seconds, I know I disgust and confuse them, but that's their problem. Lets face it women are more stylish and looking at other women to see how they are dressed seems to be a female thing, and I'm sure there are other motives to why they look. All in all stares are a part of CDing and like it or not we must accept it and move on.
"you are a strange species and there are many out there;shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you ,you are at your best when things are at their worst" ...[ Starman]
It may of course be a bit disturbing to sense that one is really not so firmly anchored to the gender one was born into.
Helen 2,
You may joke about those comments but they do happen and I have had them all said to me more than once.
GGs have told me I'm better than them putting a look together, they get slightly envious that we can actually wear heels that high and walk in them and the numbers of GGs who would give anything for my legs. Women do appear to have a fixation about legs, they may not comment on many things to each other but they do notice good legs.
The last comment I received was from a lovely SA who said those legs and knees do not belong to a 65 year old ! I just apologised and said I couldn't hand them back !
I would be really careful with this mindset. Chances are, people do notice. It's really hard for a crossdresser not on horomones and without any operations like FFS to be able to pass in the way you say "no way to tell I'm a guy". I am not doubting you, all I am saying is not to view it in absolute terms.When I am dressed as a girl, there is no way you can tell I'm a guy. If I could figure out how to post photos on this site, you would understand..
Yeah I am signed up for their promotions, I use the coupons all the time. Not so much into skirts as the rest of the people on this site, I am more of a jeans girl, but I will buy a skirt when the weather gets warmer. Kohl's is an easy place to shop dressed up because its spread out. And why the hell would you want to shop in the juniors department? That makes no sense to me, and honestly sounds a bit creepy.Hey girl, Khol's has some of the best tops and skater skirts - especially for the look and price. They always have great discounts and 20 and 30% additional mailings that they send you as well. I feel really comfortable in that store buying my girl stuff. They cashiers are always really nice. I'm always dressed as a guy when I'm in there buying my skirts and tops and the cashiers never give my any kind of uncomfortable looks. I really like the junior's department!
28 years old, 6' tall, 155 pounds
Measurements: 33 bust-28 waist-37 hips
Dress Size: 6, Bra Band Size: 34
Scarlett, I think passing as a woman as you suggest is an impossibility. Fortunately, the process for uploading an image is remarkably easy:
1) Post a New Thread
2) Click on the paperclip icon
3) Choose your pictures (files). Make sure the picture size is under 200KB and oriented in portrait mode.
4) Click "upload"
5) Click "close this window"
6) Click the arrow next to the paperclip and place picture(s) in post
I assure you, they can. I do not pass as a genetic woman
Ultimate Yuppie? What does this mean?
I have never experienced an unpleasant interaction with men but even more so, women. Women always seem to be more interested in learning about me.
Not being a woman my thoughts are only conjecture. I observe a lot of guys staring at very attractive women. That's the operative words...very attractive. If the woman is just another woman in the crowd it seems the woman goes unnoticed. Of course there are men that are vulgar and will make comments whether or not the person is a natural born woman, transwoman or a cross dresser, although I don't know how a man would tell the difference between a transwoman or a cross dresser.
Perhaps a woman is more observant because they are more vulnerable or at risk as an object of harassment or bad behavior. It's difficult for me to assess whether you're passable because I know you're a male. I suspect most women who look at you will correctly identify your gender. Why they would take a prolong look or stare? Maybe the GG's on this forum will answer. My wife makes a lot more comments about other women when I am with her. I don't even notice who she may be referring to. I may have scanned the man or woman subconsciously, but, if he or she does not stand out for any reason it is just another non threatening person passing by. I have seen several cross dressers and the ones I have identified do look like a "man in a dress." There is more to passing than just the "look" and clothes. It's also mannerisms. Frankly, a woman does not have to think how to pass as a woman.
My experience? I find that women find me non-threatening and interesting, men find me threatening to their manhood and wish their girlfriends weren't so darned intrigued!
Lynn Marie
Click here to see me on Flickr
I've been out in public.
No matter how good my make up and make over is, I will always be 6'3" in bare feet (add heels?). If I was a natural GG, at that altitude I would still attract public attention. No way around it.
Of course people look. I count on it.
There resides within me a Woman, and she is powerful.
She has been my Grace and Bearing on the stormiest seas.
I could no more deny Her than I would my own soul.
Teresa....I was not joking!
Okay, I was but only because yes, I've had similar comments made to me as well
Hugs
Helen
Last edited by Helen 2; 11-06-2016 at 11:56 AM.
Could say if women stare more than men. I no longer look to see who's looking at me.
When I'm out I'm just another woman going about her business and that doesn't include watching to see who's watching me. I have far more important things to do.
I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !
The very first time I saw a CDer - this was a few years before I met my SO - I could not stop staring, although I tried not to. Fifteen years ago I joined a small women’s group that met weekly. The first time I went, the CDer’s wife took me aside at the end of the meeting and she mentioned that her husband (who happened to not have been there that evening) was a CDer who had received permission from the other members to be a part of the group. This was a head’s up, presumably so I wouldn’t register surprise, the following week when her husband would be there. I was thankful she had told me.
The following week her husband showed up dressed conservatively, but at a level of dress that was different than the rest of us. We were all very casually dressed in hanging around clothes, without any attempt at looking fashionable. This was a laid back meeting during a week night, in the basement of a church. Her husband was wearing a knee-length skirt with jacket, blouse, scarf, hose, heels, and wore lot of makeup & jewelry, painted nails, and a wig that looked like a wig. What stood out most of all, was the disjoint between what her husband was wearing compared to everyone else, and it set him apart rather than made him part of the group. Also, the voice was off, as a male who tried to disguise his voice. It would have been better to just speak in a normal voice because of course everyone knew who he was.
I’m sure her husband felt he was well groomed, but the fact that he was a male in a male body (despite the forms and pads) overrode everything about the look. Had a woman worn the exact same outfit and accessories, I would have considered her well dressed, albeit over-dressed for the event. But all I could see was a male who looked way different than other males.
I was fascinated. My brain was trying to wrap around the idea that here was a male who was not a drag queen, who certainly didn’t look as if he dressed for fetish reasons, but who wanted to present as a female. I had seen pictures of drag queens and fetish CDers before, and so I understood the concept of dressing for fetish or for show. It took about two weeks and then I got used to my friend’s husband. After a while, I didn’t even notice the clothes, wig, and the fake voice. He was just another member participating like everyone else, but I was never able to think of him as a woman. He was just a nice guy who came to our group and although I didn’t understand wanting to present the way he did, I totally accepted that he was there. I later got to know them better as a couple, and I saw him often over the years in both guy and girl modes.
And having had this experience, I was not phased when I met my SO a few years later. My brain had already wrapped itself around the idea there are males who enjoy presenting as females outside of drag queens or fetish reasons.
PS .. I referred to the husband as a "he", because he does not identify as a woman. He stopped CDing about 5-7 years ago, after having crossdressed since puberty. He is older now, and according to his wife, the CDing has lost its magic. Last time I saw him, he had a beard.
Reine
I don't really know the answer to this question but I did notice many comments about legs and that is one thing about which many women have made comments. I have no explanation but as an example I was visiting a female friend and she saw a photo of me in shorts. She immediately commented about my legs. Yet another enigma.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Reine!
And what I think is even more amazing, is that you *did* already have some "warning" & knowledge... You knew it was going to be a guy. You knew it was going to be a CD'er. You knew they had a wife. You knew that he was probably "cool," and not some strange weirdo creep who might possibly do something odd or bad, in that the others were already okay (enough) with it all & already had experience with it. And you would be in a safe environment.
And yet you *still* stared!
Now, take all the above away, as with in the OP's situation. These GG's had no idea who she was, what she might do or say, and they were not expecting to see that, especially in such a vanilla environment.
Yeah, I guess I could see how some GG's would possibly stare a bit in such a situation.
Honestly, I've never really experienced that, myself, either, as some others have also mentioned. Did they sneak some glances while I wasn't paying attention? Probably. But I've never had the GG-*stares*.
Guy-stares is obviously a different story, of course.
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