How do you justify your total makeover with your masculinity?

[Billy]

Logically there are complications with adopting a femme voice, appearance, and personality while maintaining a strictly heterosexual stance.

I would like to understand your perspective. Furthermore, I think if I can understand it and we can discuss this logically it would go a long ways toward SO acceptance issues.

Transforming into a passable female would seem to conflict with everything masculine.

Would a significant other of a fully dressed CD'r feel they were somehow involved in a lesbian relationship?

Does acting female attract male attention?

No judgement from me here. I am just trying to understand how heterosexual all or nothing crossdressers justify their femme side to themselves or others.

If justify is the wrong word then by all means please try to understand the question and help me understand.

Thanks

[Sashauk]

Would a fully dressed CD'r appear to be desiring a lesbian relationship while making out with a female?
Obviously the subject partner would have some confusion.
Thanks

Personally I have never had a full makeover and the one and only time I had sex with my ex-wife when wearing lingerie I can't say I felt like a lesbian.

What is also worth considering is the female side of the equation. Do they feel like they are in a lesbian relationship when making out with a man dressed as a woman?

[Billy]

Yes the partners feelings are worth discussing.

[Krisi]

Personally, I have no trouble justifying my crossdressing. I don't think it does anything to my masculinity or heterosexual stance, except that I don't look very masculine as Krisi.

As for that lesbian thing, it's something that gets said time after time here but I'll bet you won't get a positive reaction if you go to a lesbian bar and tell the ladies that you are a "male lesbian".

Sometimes people just overthink things and I believe that's what you are doing here. We are all different and have different reasons for doing what we do.

[Billy]

While I would agree that a lesbian would reject a CD'r as lesbian, a spouse or significant other might question the sexual orientation of the relationship when in bed with Pauline instead of Paul.
I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking or "overthinking." Is there a better group or website to ask these questions? Would you think that a GG would feel the same making love to Pauline as Paul? Obviously people here have experience with this don't they?

There is probably a very common reason why GG significant others often don't want the femme persona in their presence.

[Sallee]

I agree to some degree. Acting and presenting fem certainly causes males to notice you. Now whether you like it or not is a different story. Does it make you gay because males are attracted to you I don't think so. BUt I can certainly see the confusion in others when the see you. I don't understand why women, gg, are attracted to men but they seem to be. I guess we can't justify our sexuality it just is. Why are some women attracted to other women? or some men attracted ot other men. Why do you like a certain painting? All of these are really unanswerable questions or at least beyond must of us

[Judith96a]

As for that lesbian thing, it's something that gets said time after time here but I'll bet you won't get a positive reaction if you go to a lesbian bar and tell the ladies that you are a "male lesbian".

While I would agree that a lesbian would reject a CD'r as lesbian

You're both very keen on stating your opinion as to what lesbians would or wouldn't do, but without any apparent experience. Have you tried talking to any? The girls whom I've encountered in the past have exhibited a variety of responses, from "euch, that's weird" (negative) to "oooh, kinky!" (positive) with lots of (neutral) curiosity as well.

There is probably a very common reason why GG significant others often don't want the femme persona in their presence.

If you're looking for a single, simple, explanation then you're in for a disappointment. The simplistic answer is that crossdressing has been very effectively stigmatised for centuries. As a result, it undermines society's concept of masculinity and the societal norms, with which girls are indoctrinated from birth, is that women like masculine men! And it's not merely indoctrination, there's genetic programming in the mix too. Therefore, to most women, a crossdressing male Is neither fish nor fowl, neither a masculine man nor a feminine woman - to misquote the robot from Lost in Space, we don't compute!
That's the simplistic theory. In reality however, you will get as many subtly different answers as there are GGs in the world who have crossdressing SOs!
As the physicists are beginning to realise, there is no simple single unifying "theory of everything"

[Billy]

I have little practical experience in regards to lesbian tendencies. I am simply asking input from people. I can only use logic, thus I seek practical input.

I would think that a GG in bed with a male might think nothing of a panty swap and might even think it cute. He take on an entire female persona might be totally different. Thus the clothing might be of little impact but the persona transformation a big deal.

[Cheryl T]

Why does this always come back to sex??
I began my journey long before puberty. Yes, early on there was a sexual component, but that took a back seat to my emotional side.

[StephanieM]

I believe it comes back to sex because so many people confuse this with sexuality. That's why the typical first question when one finds out about this is, "are you gay?".

For some this is sexual, for some of us this is totally separate from our sexuality even though it may have developed from a sexual thrill initially.

For me it's not sexual and for intimacy I am in man mode 100%.

[Samantha2015]

How do you justify your total makeover with your masculinity?

Hmmm I guess I don't. I certainly don't dress to attract men. If a man thought I looked like a gg I would be flattered
but I would make sure not to lead him on. If a man tried flirting with me (regardless if he knew I was a CD or not)
I would find it kinda creepy. I'm a guy most of the time, I know how guys think. I think the same way when I see a pretty gg.
My dream would be to find a girlfriend gg that doesn't mind me dressing from time to time. But if she doesn't want the other girl in the bedroom I would completely understand that.

[CarlaWestin]

Hi Billy. I didn't even read this post but, I get the feeling that your posts are primarily ying vs yang for litralerity sensationsation.
And I'm down with that!
It gets people to respond.
Keep it up, Sis.

[Aunt Kelly]

In reality however, you will get as many subtly different answers as there are GGs in the world who have crossdressing SOs!
As the physicists are beginning to realise, there is no simple single unifying "theory of everything"

Well put, Judith. You hit every point I was going to make and summed it all up the same way I was going to - it's just not that simple.

My wife and I have been intimate while I was dressed, but I don't think either of us would think of ourselves as lesbians during those times. On the other hand, I've had (long ago) two female lovers (no, not at the same time) who were bi. While I was never dressed with them, apparently I fell right into a "role" (for lack of a better term) that they both noted was much like that of their previous female lovers. Did that make me a lesbian? Of course not, but it would be hard to argue that those relationships weren't closer to that than any other I've ever had.

Again, the labels and boxes seldom work. We're all different and parts of us will invariably fall between the cracks.

[DIANEF]

Billy, an interesting question but simply put I am a straight male who crossdresses. I don't do it to attract any attention, male or female, I do it purely for my own needs and I don't need to justify it in any way. I am an 'all or nothing' type and try to look as passable as possible, but in male mode I'm just a very ordinary guy. I've also never felt the need or want to bring any aspect of my CDing into the bedroom. Although in my head I have a strong femme presence, on the outside I can completely seperate Diane from the male me.

[Fiona123]

I consider my self transgender. I am uncomfortable with masculinity and would prefer a feminine presentation. I am not interested in attracting males, if a male is attracted to the feminine me that's his problem. I don't mind that I contradict "everything masculine". Perhaps the issue is an overly rigid idea of masculinity and gender.

[Louise DK]

I dont have to justify anything, its not a sexual thing to me, so Im not trying to attract anybody, be it male og female. And I allso do not become a female persona, Im still just me, I dont have a feminine voice, I dont get more emotional than I usually am or anything like that. I do however move about a little different than when Im in homme so to speek, I dont want to walk around like a cowboy in a skirt.��
As I said its not a sexual thing for me, so i dont dress up to be intimate with my wife. She is very supporting of me crossdressing, but in bed Im the man.
I allso do not understand the persitant connection to sex within this Forum, where people should know Better. I think the vast majority of the members here, do not see their crossdressing as a sexual thing.

As for the male lesbian thing... Just No! No matter how you are dressed, you are still a male. And a male and a female is not a lesbian relationship. A female with another female or a transitioned transseksual woman and a GG is on the other hand a lesbian relationship.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Perhaps 'How do you reconcile your total makeover with your masculinity' might be more on the money?

It seems to me the majority of members here have no difficulty at all in reconciling their two sides; the ones who have the problem are their partners. But some of those (gg) partners are actually turned on by their partner CDing. If I were a gg I know I would be, but then I'm bi so 'anything goes'.

[Micki_Finn]

I don't dress to "obtain" sex. How I'm dressed doesn't affect my sexual desire if I am dressed feminine it doesn't make me any less of a man or any less attracted to women. A butch lesbian is still just as much of a lesbian as a lipstick.

I feel like this thread does us a great disservice by blurring the lines between sexuality and gender identity. They are two separate things.

[Fiona123]

I feel like this thread does us a great disservice by blurring the lines between sexuality and gender identity. They are two separate things.

Well said Micki!

[Billy]

Original post slightly changed. I did not intend this to be about sex but rather how to reconcile this femme persona with one's masculinity and with a female significant other.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

if I am dressed feminine it doesn't make me any less of a man or any less attracted to women.

A male dressed and presenting themselves as a beautiful female could send mixed or confusing signals to the woman that you are attracted to.

[Sarah Louise]

Billy, it's a very interesting question. I don't care for the view that we shouldn't over-think why we dress. I would love to know why I dress and love to try and analyse why. I've not found the reason why yet and probably won't. But I don't worry about it.

I've just had a night out with fellow CD'rs and the only male attention we got were from a few guys who like men dressed as girls. Fortunately there's not many about as we don't want such attention. If I was attracting hetro male attention then I would be doing an amazing job on my presentation, but I don't want to attract any men whatsoever. I don't want to attract any male attention of any kind. I just want to look as pretty and feminine as I can. I don't know why, but I love it when I get complimented on my appearance. But there's nothing sexual at all in this. I'm quite comfortable expressing my female side then going back to normal male mode afterwards.

[Tracii G]

Billy logic has nothing to do with it.
Thats where your train of thought fails because you assume things always follow a logical pattern.

[Billy]

Yes I believe that logic fails. That is why I ask the questions. Thanks

[Gabriella111]

To provide a GG perspective, my boyfriend doesn't do full female. No wig (and he's got a typical guy short haircut), only light makeup if any at all, but he does change his voice and mannerisms, so he throws off a very feminine vibe when dressed, even though he's very masculine from the neck up. And he's emotional in more feminine ways. That explained, we both comment about how he's my boyfriend/girlfriend (or bgf, as he texts it). Still, even if he were totally en femme, I don't think I would think of him as my girlfriend. Even he will say he is still a man, even when dressed. He isn't transgender. He very much likes that he's got feminine qualities, but he also very much embraces many of his masculine ones.

For the intimate side of the relationship, for the rare occasion that he falls into a female role, in my mind, he's still him... it's just a role. Regardless of however I feel in that moment, it doesn't extend to the relationship as a whole, if that makes sense. It's just play; nothing more than that.

[Edit] I really dislike gender binarism. The problem with the labels and the boxes is that there are too few and they are too exclusive.

[Teresa]

Billy,
I admit I have AGP, so I wish to be seen and accepted as a woman, I have that gut feeling 24/7 , it never goes away . The only conflict I have is an internal one between my male and female side, I prefer the female side.

Yes my wife does tell me she only wants the man she married , that she's not a lesbian but she does admit I'm part female, if you have GD then it's the only way to deal with .
Now I go out socially I don't feel like a man in a dress, I'm satisfying an inner need, it's not to justify anything, I am accepted as the woman I wish to be and it feels good.I can't say if it attracts male attention, our Xmas party was open to the public and I danced with other guy's wives most of the night while they propped up the bar, the women appeared to love it, which I find wonderful.

If you don't understand yourself and why you have a need to dress maybe you should sit down and write your history down from when and how your CDing started. The penny may drop like it did with me, it suddenly became much clearer that I was born like it and since joining the forum discovered it's for life.

As for the sexual element I'm afraid it does come into it for some of us, my CDing started with it , as I said I have AGP , I had a GF who accepted it purely because she knew how it turned me on at the time so she got what she wanted out of it, it never crossed our minds if she felt like a lesbian . I do wear a nightie in bed but since the change of life ten years ago she hasn't been interested in me, so it doesn't concern me that she claims she's not a lesbian , it doesn't change how I feel . Sometimes I feel it's cop out when women say that , I would prefer them to honest and say they don't feel that adventurous with sex, when it's between two people what does it matter .