MLK thoughts and recent Forum threads

[ClosetED]

Was thinking yesterday on how this Forum treated a recent member. MLK Jr had a dream of freedom for a group of people and this member has a dream of freedom for CDers. To be treated equally by society. MLK tried to be respectful in protest, yet the establishment did their best to silence him. His words did cause riots in some places and there is sense in stopping those. This member has posted statements of freedom and performed acts showing freedom to dress however he chooses, possibly to urge others to stand up for their own freedom. While others react strongly to these acts of rebellion, the member has remained calm.

So consider this when viewing threads - some come hear to ask questions and get varied opinions. Some come for support of their pictures, some for support of their identity. To come here to push for change in society, that one individual cannot do, is still a noble thought. That may or may not be what the member is coming here for, but what I choose to believe is the ultimate goal to aim for. Be respectful of others' thoughts - consider offering your own view or data rather than saying they are wrong.

We are a great community and I hate to see discrimination when we really share a goal of freedom for all.

IMHO - Hugs, Ellen

[Karyn Marie]

So true, and very well said.

[Krisi]

I have a hard time associating the two. Both are noble thoughts but not connected to each other.

[ClosetED]

My view is that both groups wanted to be treated as equal humans - not based on how they look - skin color or by the clothing they wear. It may be neither of us had any choice in those attributes, but we can hide it better in our 'closets'.

Ellen

[ronda]

all things can be resolved with talk and understanding and unconditional love for each other

[Jaylyn]

I enjoy reading the various thoughts on just about any subject that is presented on this forum, I don't respond to them all, especially when I am uninformed about the topic, I feel members should have the right to express their views in a respectful way though but not in a belittling way. We are all in this fog together and deep down we all probably have some common things that cause us to enjoy the same behavior to varing degrees of intensity. I don't feel we discriminate here. I also think every one here has that certain amount of testosterone that can come out sometimes in statements although we might not mean to hurt anyone's feelings but maybe we use the wrong wording and do.
I agree we need to respect each other here especially.

[docrobbysherry]

Not everyone would agree with u, Closet. Just as Krisi said, the 2 may be considered different cases.

Because colored people have to present that way every day of their lives. Some may argue dressers can choose NOT to dress. Altho TS's mite argue that point-----

[ClosetED]

I don't mind if people disagree - just putting forth one viewpoint of a timely similarity I saw. I posted this to the CD section, not the TS, but TSers would want freedom as well. Yes, CDers can choose not to dress, but the issue is why they might choose to not dress. Is it because society is not giving them the freedom to do as they wish? Make them sit in the back of the bus, as a metaphor?
We do have the luxury of hiding our differences better than other groups. But is it our hope to not have to hide?
Ellen

[Krisi]

My point is, the issues are on far different levels. Black people are just people with darker skin that white people. They have been treated poorly for generations and Dr. King worked to gain his race equality with other races. Black people are what they are, being black is not something they choose to do or can choose to be only on weekends.

Crossdressers, on the other hand are just men who choose to dress differently that the norm or in many cases, dress like women with prosthetic breasts and hips and wigs. It would be nice if everyone accepted them but this doesn't even begin to rise to the level of historical unequal treatment based on a person's race.

When I was working, I worked with many black people and sometimes sat and talked with them on a personal level. Many went to segregated schools and never met a white person until they took a job. One co-worker was the first black child to go to a previously all white school. This was when he was in the first grade. Can you imagine how difficult that would have been? Not just being there, but people stood on their porches watching him walk to school.

Compared to this, getting jeered for wearing a dress in public seems pretty insignificant. At least to me. You can always go home and change. A black person cannot.

[Christina D]

Compared to this, getting jeered for wearing a dress in public seems pretty insignificant. At least to me. You can always go home and change. A black person cannot.

You'll hear no argument from me that race is an inescapable, biological result of heritage, so your point that a crossdresser "can always go home and change" is totally valid and well taken.

However, in going back to what I believe the OP was trying to say is that now that we're 50+ years post-Civil Rights era, Dr. King's message can and should be looked at as a way to continue society's progress with not just racial injustice (which we certainly still need), but also injustices of gender, sex, and sexuality. In fact, one could argue that that has already happened. Following Dr. King's call to end segregation and "create a more perfect union," many other marginalized groups took his principles and applied them to themselves; the feminist movement was rekindled, Native Americans began to assert themselves more politically, and the LGBT movement as we continue to know it today started to take shape just to name a few instances.

I don't think ClosetED was trying to compare the struggles of African Americans to crossdressers one-to-one or suggest that the struggles between the two are exactly the same. This isn't an attempt to invalidate the experiences of either group. African Americans have experienced tremendous hardship, prejudice, and hate. So have women and homosexuals, and Muslims. To say that the severe hardships of one group make the relatively less severe hardships of another does nothing to help either group; social justice is not a competition and doesn't need to be posed as one. Injustices based solely on any part of a persons identity is wrong and should be addressed.

One of Dr. King's most enduring quotes (and he has many, of course) is when he referred to his dream that his children "will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Without invalidating that point as it applies to people of color, one could easily replace the "color of their skin" with a characteristic of any marginalized group. I hope that we will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the gender they identify with but by the content of their character.

[Lorileah]

Compared to this, getting jeered for wearing a dress in public seems pretty insignificant. At least to me. You can always go home and change. A black person cannot.

That is an inflammatory statement if there ever was one. It suggests the if physical feature are the motivation, you have the onus to fight. Whereas if you can "Pass" you should go into hiding and let things be. This didn't work 60 plus years ago or centuries before that. Look at history and what divided societies. Simple things like geography, where you were born or where you lived (Hatfields and McCoys), religions (You could worship in secret), even clothing. The idea of hiding away never makes the problem dissolve. It just puts it out of sight. Even the women's movement needed those out and proud to get where they are now. Your idea is what the gays were told for years. "We don't care what you do behind closed doors, act like a cis-male in public. Marry a woman, look butch. Act macho." But you can't love a man, or have children or keep a job or inherit from your partner or even see them in the hospital. Really really BAD and out dated logic on your part.

In your note you noted the first black to go to a school. That's what it takes, one to start the flood gates If that person had decided tp stay away, allow to be schooled in a less than idea environment, where would they have been? Your logic is based totally on physical. Would you expect someone to change religions or act like your religion? Would you expect someone to eat foods that are banned for them just to fit in your box? f you answered "Hey, if they are in my area" or Hey if they want to survive in my world" YOU are the problem not them,
Even though MLK was focused on race *as well he should have been it was what was important to his cause) the implication that the world would one day be without ANY tension was the goal, where man and woman had equal rights to jobs and monies. Where gays and straights had equal rights to who they loved. Where one religion was not promoted over another. Where a person had the right to be themselves and not fill a box built by someone else as long as they weren't taking food from another's mouth, air from another's lungs or life and love from another's heart

And to paraphrase the last part of his I Have a Dream speech And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!
More contemporary is Garth Brook's song we shall be free. But we will never be free as long as anyone promotes a out of sight out of mind position. Telling people to just put it away isn't the answer

[NicoleScott]

There's nothing inflammatory about expressing the opinion that being a crossdresser and being black are not congruent. Taking offense when none was intended seems to be the new national pastime.

[docrobbysherry]

We can't get political, Nicole. But, we r in trying times for any and all minorities. And, T's r even a minority under the LGBT umbrella!

[TrishaTX]

I find the conversations on here very informative and I like to hear different sides so long as it all stays respectful which it usually does...I thank each of you for educating me over the the past few years.

On the subject of MLK, i grew up as a minority first then moved to the area that was only white. I have seen both sides and still don't understand why people judge each other on color, dress, religion or gender. I have met good and bad in each category , so talk to someone , find out who they are...

[Aunt Kelly]

The experience of African-Americans in our culture is not the same as that of cross dressers. It isn't That's not to say that there aren't a great many similarities, but to conclude that one knows the other's experience because of those few similarities is pretty much the definition of prejudice. Stop making the comparison. It does not serve any of us.

[NicoleScott]

Doc, there was nothing political in my post. Not so sure about some of the others.

[Georgette_USA]

Whereas if you can "Pass" you should go into hiding and let things be.

I assume you meant if you "can't pass".

I had/have no problem passing. Was never hiding, but felt no need to be "Out and Proud". Actually I was at the employer where/when I transitioned. I just wanted to get on with my life for 38 years. Still not "out", but I am proud and help any others that I find/know now.

[mbmeen12]

I hope that we will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the gender they identify with but by the content of their character.

The inserting those words into famous quote works for me as to my reading this thread.....But it shows what a brilliant man he was in writing that speech in tenacious times. Thank you Mr. King RIP

[Zooey]

Some may argue dressers can choose NOT to dress. Altho TS's mite argue that point-----

Actually, I wouldn't argue that point at all, since I believe that on any given day "dressers" DO have a choice.

I would argue that trans women are not "dressers", and point out that I remain sad that anybody here continues to see it that way.