Which came first cross dressing or being bisexual

[Trishpdxcd2]

It is hard to say if cd's have more of a propensity for being bi or if being bi creates more of propensity to cd? For me I have always been a sexual explorer of sorts and see sexuality as a line with gay on one side and straight on the other and the middle as bi. I am on the hetero side of bi myself. I had a couple of bi experiences with couples later in life and enjoyed it but never felt an overt attraction to men at all. I had these experiences before I ever started crossdressing. I didn't start dressing until I was in my late 40's. Now, I have no interest in sex with a man in boy mode but in femme mode an entirely different story. I am not sure where you put attraction to other cd's in this equation but that is perhaps my strongest attraction at the moment.

[mical7]

i have always preferred sexual incounters with of cds first and for most my attraction to men is secondary

[ClosetED]

The data I have seen puts the rate of homosexuality in CDers slightly less than average US population. When I was 18 and off to college, I answered ad from man who thought boys made the best girls so I similarly went to his house where he had prior person's clothes and makeup. I got to be his girlfriend but only to "second base". When he wanted more, I never returned. That help me decide I was hetero CD and not bi or TS.
Since you could have been pressured once but decided to return, I think you were always bi. Data supports that both gender identity and sexual preference have genetic component, so you were born with both. Your environment happened to allow CDing desire first and bi second.
Hugs, Ellen

[Mickitv]

I also was very young when I started dressing. I don't think I felt anything sexual at that time. Later I pleasured myself when dressed. It was much later when I felt bisexual and finally accepted it.

[ReineD]

I didn't want anything to happen sexual but well it did. I just wanted some where to dress not gay sex. Up too this point I was completey straight It became a 3 too 4 time a month trip to Walters and could get all the clothes I wanted and I did. I know I am not the only one who has some sexual response to cross dressing so that's what I passed it off as. Has anybody else had this feeling

You don't say how you felt about it. Did sex with Walter turn you off and did you do it just so you could have access to your clothes?

Also, consider that not being attracted to one particular person is not an indicator of your sexual preference. For example, I'm a hetero GG and there are guys that I would never want to have sex with. This does not mean that with them, I am a lesbian or bi. lol.

So if you got off on sex with Walter and if you can see yourself being sexually attracted to other men, even if you don't happen to be wearing female clothes at the time, then you're bi and it is likely that your sexual preferences have always been flexible, even though you were likely raised like the rest of us, with the assumption that you should be hetero. Sometimes it can take a while for people to figure out that they can be more flexible than they had previously thought.

If having sex with Walter was a neutral event - if it didn't disgust you but it didn't do anything for you either, then is this how you feel when you have sex with women too? There are people who are asexual. No one really floats their boat. They have sex because they perceive that others want sex more than having sex because they are aroused. And there are people who are self-sexual. They prefer sex by themselves to their fantasies over having sex with others.

[Marianne S]

...I believe that people who are not strictly binary in their gender identity (including some - but not all - CDs) have a higher probability of being bisexual. A few polls here and other research backs me up on this, b...

this is the definition of drawing a conclusion one wants and NOT supported by actual data. Higher probability? What does that mean?!?! You are pointing to a cause and effect which is complete nonsense. Cross dressing and sexual preference are completely unrelated and you can see THAT every day here.

While it's true that the two traits are separate and one doesn't necessarily "cause" the other, that does not mean the two are completely unrelated. "Higher probability" means exactly what it says. In other words, there is a correlation between the two, however partial and limited. More people--not everyone by any means, and far from a majority, just somewhat more people--who crossdress are likely to be bisexual or even gay compared with the non-crossdressing population at large.

Why should this be? I agree with Gretchen that there are ways in which one trait may interact with (or "encourage") the other. But that's a complicated matter I won't go into right now. The major reason, I'm sure, lies elsewhere.

Among other things, we need to consider that a large percentage of male-to-female transsexuals end up being "lesbian" in orientation. I've heard various figures: some quote 45 percent, for instance. That tells us on the one hand that gender identity and sexual orientation do vary independently of one another. Having a feminine gender identity does not necessarily mean being androphilic.

However, it's equally true that the remainder, possibly around half, are androphilic or anyway bisexual. Whatever the exact percentage is, it's far greater than the prevalence of gay or bisexual men among the population at large.

Conversely, while most gay men are probably not "feminine," a higher percentage of gay men are somewhat "feminine" compared with the male population at large.

So even though gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same, they do tend to correlate with one another to some degree.

In the main, it's not that crossdressing "causes" bisexuality (or androphilia)--or that bisexuality "causes" crossdressing! However, that doesn't rule out the probability that a third, common factor is often responsible for both.

Even though we don't know all the details yet, that common factor is easily enough found in the hormonal processes responsible for patterning the brain, most likely in utero. Of course, different parts or aspects of the brain are responsible for different sex-linked traits: for our sexual orientation, for our overall feeling of gender identity, and perhaps for yet another trait that I'd call "coital role preference." These traits may develop at different times during gestation. If there's an anomaly in the hormonal environment as our brain is developing, it may affect one trait but not another, depending on timing. Still, if there is an anomaly, there's a significant probability that it will affect more than one trait.

I think of this like spray-painting a house. The house starts off pink at conception, say, but we normally paint it blue. As long as we've got an adequate supply of blue androgen paint, and the nozzle is clean and our air compressor is chugging away healthily, there's an ample gush of paint coming out of the sprayer and we only have to make one pass over the house for it to end up a uniform blue in color. Then we've got a gynephilic male who's happy with his gender identity and may never even think about crossdressing (except possibly for fetishistic reasons).

However, if the nozzle gets clogged, the paint runs low or the compressor is on the blink, paint sputters out sparingly or unevenly, and may even stop from time to time. Of course, if we're real human painters we'll see we're making a shoddy job of it and go back over the parts we've missed. But Nature is blind, and keeps the nozzle moving whether there's paint coming out of it or not! As Omar Khayyam put it:

"The moving finger writes, and having writ/Moves on..."

In fact it moves on whether it's "writ" or not! If no paint came out when it was making a pass over the porch, then we end up with a pink porch even if the rest of the house is blue. Then we've got a guy who to all appearances is entirely masculine--but he's gay.

Or maybe it's the other way round. Maybe the porch got painted first, but then the paint ran out, so the rest of the house stays pink. Then we've got a genetic male with a fully feminine gender identity--except that she's "lesbian."

Alternatively, if the nozzle is clogged and paint comes out in spurts, the house may end up mostly blue, but the blue is thin in parts with pink showing through in unexpected patches. Bisexual, transgender, crossdresser, gender-confused, "genderqueer," what the heck! These can all be separate things, but my point is that if the paint supply is interrupted, while it won't necessarily leave more than one area pink, there is a fair probability that it will affect more than one area. Hence a certain degree of correlation between otherwise independent traits such as gender identity and sexual orientation.

[IleneD]

ReineD,

I continue to marvel at the maturity, common sense, good science and wisdom of many of your responses.
So well thought out. Very good. And understanding all the same.

[Lilly 40C]

For me, bi-sexuality came first about the time I reached puberty when another young boy and I started in with each other. Crossdressing came much later in life about the time I was in my 50's. I don't think there is a link between the two.

[Vanni]

Well for me they both came around the same time. I always loved wearing my sisters things, and at the same time had an ongoing bi relationship with my best friends older brother. I've had much more hetero activity than bi, but I do enjoying dressing and interacting with men. As others have posted, I get turned on by a beautiful woman but not by looking a a man. Not sure why that is....

[Tracii G]

It seems by reading this thread that some are straight and not bisexual because they only feel bisexual around other CDers.
They are attracted to the outward appearance of the CDer not what gender they are physically or what body parts they have.
I see that mentioned here a lot but its not really bisexuality at all yet they claim it to be for some reason.
If neither were crossdressed there would be no chance in hell they would be attracted in a sexual way.

[savannaxdrsser]

For me it was the crossdressing, I started when i was around 12 going thru puberty, i didnt really understand any of what i was feeling, but at times do remember putting on my mom and sisters things and liked the feeling of being a girl. On and off thru life i dressed some, at times thinking maybe i was gay, but i was always involved in a hetero relationship. as i got older and the internet came about, i began to explore my issues more and more, it clearly was a gender thing, but i have bisexual feelings and at times, gay feelings. i am still working it all out.

[Sissy_Michelle]

Mical7,

Crossdressing definately came first. Was only after that I became curious about BI or Gay. Some time ago a friend of mine that knew about my cross dressing habits or under dressing invited me over and said I could wear whatever I liked and we were going to set up a couple workout stations for his home gym. And possibly if I wanted to workout with the new equipment. So I wore some tights, sports bra, and tank top and we spent three hours putting the multi station cable machine together, plus a "Smith machine". Afterwards we made up some exercises and tried out the machines. We both were exhausted and wiped out, he offered his shower and a change of clothes (baggy sweats). But afterwards it was late and we decided to lounge around and watch television. After a few drinks and him sitting close to me flirting and asking about my dressing habits, I relaxed and allowed him to kiss me, it wasn't bad, I didn't burst into flames or have any guilty feelings about what happened at all. He was kind, nice, and was never forceful. We met at his house to workout a few times afterwards, I never felt guilty because we kissed or sat close together watching television. I was curious about what it would feel like being with a guy. I was dressed as a girl when I was with him, he treated me like a girl and everything felt right when I was with him. Then he found a girlfriend... She respected our friendship and our closeness but we were never the same and he started to feel uncomfortable with me around so I slowly stopped seeing him...

Y'all are the first people I have ever shared this with...

@--}----
Michelle

[AileenCD]

I asked to be a girl for Halloween when I was in 3rd grade, well before I knew anything about sex. I just loved the thought of being a girl. Before puberty I also used to play with another boy, masturbating and looking at girly mags. I did have urges to touch and caress and suck him, but he wasn't interested.

At puberty, he completely blew me off, calling me a homo, and I buried any feelings I might have had for a long time, and stayed away from any hints of sex with men. I wonder how it would have been if I'd been able to explore with other boys as a teen. I've only lately been with men, and my feelings are definitely not man to man, but as a gurl pleasing a man. Curiously, it's not exactly a sexual feeling, but the comfort and softness of being close to a man's sexual power.....

[ginapoodle]

Purely attracted to women.

[susancheerleader]

Speaking for myself.

I am a crossdresser. I am not gay, or by sexual in any way.

Although I am approached a lot. I respectfully let them know I am not interested.

[Ceera]

Cross-dressing (or wearing mom's makeup) never was a sexual kink for me when I was very young. I tried on a few of mom's things, and played with hr makeup a little, but mostly just liked how it felt. By high school I had all but forgotten about such thoughts. I'd never yet heard of transgender or gender identity issues, so didn't associate my curiosity with having a female aspect.

For me, I knew I was Bi after my first (unplanned) M-M experience in high school. It had nothing at all to do with cross dressing or even seeking a gay experience. I felt both guilty and fearful about having done it, but had to admit I had also enjoyed it. But I repressed the idea, because my dad was so homophobic he couldn't even say the word 'homosexual' without choking on it. Still hadn't heard of transgender or sex changes, and when I finally did hear of those things, I didn't think they applied to me.

In my early 50's, I met a transgender person for the first time. a co-worker was going through MtF transition, openly at work. I talked to them a lot, and tried to understand them. But I was married and happy with my life, and seriously doubted I could ever walk their path in life.

In my mid 50's I experimented with under-dressing, but again didn't get much of a sexual connection with it, even when I tried to seek that connection experimentally. By then I finally had words for things like 'transgender' and knew that sex changes existed, and knew of numerous sexual kinks, But I still didn't think much of the 'transgender' stuff actually applied to me.

It wasn't until I was widowed and I fully embraced my female aspect and decided to cross-dress in public and try to pass for female that I decided to let the other genii out of the bottle, and also experiment with my bisexual side. And even then, it wasn't 'being bisexual because I was cross-dressing', so much as 'exploring both cross dressing and bisexuality at the same time. About a year later I was certain I was both bi and probably at least somewhat transgender - I liked 'being a woman' in public, and my 'female self' was more of a lesbian than straight, but bi enough to go either way.

I've only tried sex once while cross dressed - and that was with a male. I liked it, but as much as anything I liked being treated as a female, as much as possible, during the session. The clothes only helped to present the female illusion. If I could have been fully naked and passed at all for female, I would have done so and not bothered with the clothes during sex.

So for me, I think neither 'came first'. Each developed on its own, for unrelated reasons.

[Vintage4sarah]

First of all, I am not one to be hung up on labeling our desires, behaviors or inner feelings. I have best concluded that I was a crossdresser first as that blossomed in my early teens and then went missing for many decades but never far beneath the surface. I always loved the sight of well dressed females and envied the crossdressers I saw on occasion with raging jealousy. When I was able to break out of self-imposed restraints 20 years ago which lead to the company of other Tgirls, something lit up inside me. I fully embraced the desires to share some intimacy with them and still do today. Of late, I have experienced the attention of gentlemen as well as my dear Tgirl friends. This has released something over the past few years that has made realize that I definitely have a "bi" side when I am into my female persona.

[SometimesKairi]

I feel right and comfortable and happy in female clothes.
I've had the odd gay wank fantasy but being with a guy (especially emotionally) interests me mot one zip.

I don't dress to attract men personally

[AileenCD]

There are may thoughtful comments here, and a lot to consider. I would add one aspect that I think is underrated and deserves emphasis--the role of inhibition in our expression of sexual desires. In discussions of gender, we often speak as though our sexual feelings happen independently of the fabric and context of our lives. My experience, as I've begun to approach men sexually, is that the layers of inhibition and fear are astoundingly deep and unconscious. My feelings come to me filtered through many, many layers of chiffon, and as they fall away, my feeling change, too.

As an example, if we say that bisexual feelings came first, and dressing much later in life, could it not be that the inhibitions to showing ourselves as feminine simply took longer to erode? or the reverse...that our innocent desires to dress when young carried the seeds of sexual desires that were smothered as we grew up, and only later had the courage to explore?

The other element that shapes our feelings and behavior, especially in the realm of 'forbidden' attractions, is simply permission. My crossdressing flourished when I discovered there are many other men with similar desires and, most importantly, when a gg friend allowed and encouraged me to dress with her. And later, when another gg friend encouraged me to explore my feelings toward men, those feelings began to spring forth. I can certainly imagine that if I had never known those wonderful women, I may never have developed as a crossdresser or bisexual.

Just my thoughts...still evolving

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

Mical7,

Crossdressing definately came first. Was only after that I became curious about BI or Gay. .....We met at his house to workout a few times afterwards, I never felt guilty because we kissed or sat close together watching television. I was curious about what it would feel like being with a guy. I was dressed as a girl when I was with him, he treated me like a girl and everything felt right when I was with him. Then he found a girlfriend... She respected our friendship and our closeness but we were never the same and he started to feel uncomfortable with me around so I slowly stopped seeing him...

Y'all are the first people I have ever shared this with...

@--}----
Michelle

Thank you, Michelle, for sharing that. I've had a similar experience of closeness that ended, when my friend distanced himself from treating me as a girl...

[stephanie2000]

Interesting thread. I'm sure many Cross Dressers have experienced a similar experience. I'm certainly no expert at anything really. I'm just going with the flow of my mind and body. So I had a sexual experience with an older boy in the neighborhood when I was under 10 and it has shaped my sexuality ever since. I really don't know were I fall. I try not to judge or position people in one way or another. For me there has always been something sexual about dressing in woman's clothes, especially lingerie - which I love. I don't have to be with a guy if I am dressed and I don't have to be with a girl if I'm in guy clothes acting as a guy. Honestly I have no idea were I fall other than I seek happiness and pleasure.
Hugs
Stephanie