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Thread: Psych's Opinion

  1. #1
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    Psych's Opinion

    Psychologist & psychiatrist are suppose to know more about human behavior or what makes us tick or why we are the same but each is different than anybody else; Lord knows they have spent enough time and money in schools learning about our two legged species. So what do they really know about male to female crossdressers? Are they a "normal" part of our society and just a small minority, as the old one's die off new one's are born, just like roaches and ants crossdressing has survived for centuries. Since this is "true" why hasn't society accepted us like they have so many changes in society relevant to human dress and appearance and the many degrees of different tastes that cross over the gender line. If a male likes and wants to wear female clothes this is no different than women being accepted wearing men's clothes.

    Any psych's out there, please answer all of the questions above so we (CDers) will know why we put ourselves through what we do to emulate the weaker sex. What I am really asking here is what the psych. community thinks about MtF CDing, is it O.K.; if so why is society dragging their a** on acceptance? And I hope you don't say because we are such a small number, there are other groups that are also small but accepted i.e. the Washington Redskins fans (joke, handle it).
    Last edited by Lorileah; 01-28-2017 at 06:56 PM. Reason: word filter

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    Gold Member Jaylyn's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in reading the comments if any on this. I'm not a psych but lots of it I would thing is just traditional wear. I wish we'd all go back to the very beginning when male and females were nakkid. Lol then of course the fig leaves came into play, but we'd all have the same type leaf's.

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    I doubt if you're going to get a response that is acceptable to explain cross dressing, homosexuality, transsexuals. I always chuckled to myself over these issues. If there was some basis for saying these were disorders, then surely there would be some Labor Day telethon to raise money for a cure.

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    I have wondered for some time whether the amount and type of information available on this site would be of use to someone doing research into cross dressing. I understand the privacy issues etc. but still wonder if this would be a rich vein to mine or if, for various reasons such as incomplete and unsubstantiated information, it would be considered a flawed "data base". I wonder if the monitors have ever been approached. Just a question not a suggestion.

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    They are doing some interesting research using MRIs and there is some evidence suggesting our brains (transgenders/CDers) are wired more like female than male.

    An article from the Huntington Post:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ravish...b_6494820.html

    This is a link to an article Scientific American published:
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...sgender-brain/

    Here's another article by the New Scientist:
    https://www.newscientist.com/article...-on-brain-scan

    Another article offering some interesting points on how gender identification has a biological basis:

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/liv...e76580862.html

    I particularly liked the last paragraph from the Charlotte Observer article:

    'What gets lost is that society favors conformity, and nature favors diversity,” she said in a phone interview. “What scientists have been able to discover is that gender identity and sexual anatomy is a spectrum. … We can no longer think of transgender people as being some kind of aberration. … We need to think of them as variations.'

    Maybe with enough research and time, society will be a little more accepting of us.
    Last edited by Nigella; 01-28-2017 at 01:32 PM. Reason: added later link

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    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
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    You're basically asking “why“ again. How many times must we tell you new folk that “why“ doesnt matter.

    What truly matters is how you deal with it. Asking why is a distraction from doing that and a waste of time.

    Veronica
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    Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.

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    Member TinaMc's Avatar
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    I think generally psychiatrists and psychologists are interested in actual mental health disorders, not atypical clothes choices.
    And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom - Anais Nin

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    Aspiring Member ronda's Avatar
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    Veronica sometimes knowing why helps you except it. you know you were born this way then you know you are just being yourself
    hugs
    Ronda

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    Feminaut Julie MA's Avatar
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    I would venture to assume that everyone, including those that no longer do, have wanted to know why. Nothing wrong with being new, or trying to understand ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylyn View Post
    I wish we'd all go back to the very beginning when male and females were nakkid. Lol then of course the fig leaves came into play, but we'd all have the same type leaf's.
    But human nature doesn't change... and neither do the frequent instances of variation on human nature!

    Back when we were all wearing fig leaves, you can bet your high-heeled boots that Eve especially was wearing more than that, given the feminine predilection for adornment and for delicacy--even if it was just a flower in her hair, or trimming the edges of her fig leaf into a lace as intricate as the edges of a satin slip. Despite their common origin from the branches of a fig tree, I'll bet Adam's and Eve's fig leaves, by the time they were being worn, ended up looking as different from one another as a a pair of boxers or Jockey shorts do from a pair of bikini panties. We only have to notice how even the most primitive tribes have different fashions for men and for women, however unlike our own, like the neck rings some African women traditionally wear.

    I've no doubt Adam was doing the same from a masculine perspective, with symbolic meanings of its own: a necklace of teeth perhaps, or the bones of enemies vanquished in war, and a belt of twisted animal skin with a flint knife tucked into it: "Me Mack the Knife. Me Big Bold Hunter" or "Big Bad Warrior." But here and there, one of those "Mack" or "Adam" guys would be tucking a flower into his own hair on impulse or in secret. And in his mind he would be "crossdressing" just like us--just as that famous feather was "the latest Italian fashion" in the mind of a very different man:

    Yankee Doodle went to town
    Riding on a pony
    Stuck a feather in his cap
    And called it 'macaroni'...

  11. #11
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    I often get asked a tax question when people learn that I work as an accountant. I'm not a CPA (but I can be a Constant Pain in the Ass), and tax is not my specialty. I wouldn't expect every shrink to be an expert in gender identity/presentation matters.
    Marianne, I saw a show on TV about those neck rings. It turns out that the neck isn't really stretched, but rather the collar bones are pushed down, giving the appearance of a longer neck, supposedly to be more attractive to men. Doesn't work for me, but then I'm not a member of that tribe. They might think high heels are stupid.

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    New Member Swimtran's Avatar
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    How many people here have sought professional psych advice about crossdressing?

    I went twice, at the insistence of my wife, who was looking to have me "cured". The first listened, then helped me find a sex therapist because she didn't feel confident that she could help. The second, a certified sex therapist, assured me that it's not even considered a disease or problem! Since I had already accepted it myself, she saw no point in continuing to see me.

    She described it as a fairly common kink (in my case, anyway.) It doesn't hurt anybody. And giving it up is as futile as giving up your favorite food.

    As for acceptance, that's outside the domain of psychiatry, I think.

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    The Two Different Kinds !

    Hi Deebra, I always thought that when it comes to Psych's and therapists that there two kinds,

    One tells you what you want to hear,

    And the other one tells your wife what she wants to hear......
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

    I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !

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    it's our "culture". In early native communities we'd be honored and given special favors and duties.


    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    ....why we put ourselves through what we do to emulate the weaker sex.
    Weaker sex?? That moniker is long gone.

    Ineke

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    The fact that you refer to females as "the weaker sex" partially answers your own question. Historically, women have been marginalized and devalued. That a man would want to drop down to that level of lesser privilege makes him weak in the eyes of those who view women as less than men. So that's part of the problem.

    There's also the problem of society viewing gender as binary and the burdensome roles assigned to each gender. It isn't binary, and these roles are not always useful.

    Intellectually weak people also tend to fear what they don't understand. Suddenly someone as innocuous as a man in a dress is considered a threat. A threat how? Same way gay marriage is somehow a threat to "traditional" marriage... it's different.

    And I'm not a psychologist, but I do have a degree in psychology. All depends on one's area of focus/research as far as their expertise. I was focused on a specific type of PTS(D), but I never went for a doctorate.
    "The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!” -- Jack Kerouac

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    To several people here... If I were you, I would be VERY careful about trying to apply research done on transexual women to crossdressers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella111 View Post
    The fact that you refer to females as "the weaker sex" partially answers your own question. Historically, women have been marginalized and devalued. That a man would want to drop down to that level of lesser privilege makes him weak in the eyes of those who view women as less than men. So that's part of the problem.
    This. This is also one reason why there is often friction between CDs/fluid-expressing people and women (cis and trans). You claim/appropriate all of the "fun" stuff, including (in some cases) the identity of woman, without actually giving up any of your privilege and power. It's like white college kids wearing dreadlocks and claiming to be rastafari.
    Last edited by Zooey; 01-28-2017 at 10:05 PM.
    Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.

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    Not sure I agree. How finely are we going to split the hair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zooey View Post
    To several people here... If I were you, I would be VERY careful about trying to apply research done on transexual women to crossdressers.

    This. This is also one reason why there is often friction between CDs/fluid-expressing people and women (cis and trans). You claim/appropriate all of the "fun" stuff, including (in some cases) the identity of woman, without actually giving up any of your privilege and power. It's like white college kids wearing dreadlocks and claiming to be rastafari.
    The research is suggesting gender identification is a spectrum. If you put cis females on one end and cis males on the other, the middle is where the trans community fits. If we CDers are not in the middle, and we aren't at either end, where are we. Not sure transgender women and men can claim that whole middle as their private territory simply because they chose to transition and we haven't. Really, don't we all have enough challenges dealing with social pressures without turning on each other. How petty can we get.

    Most of us have come to this at very early ages (5 and under). I think it was around 80% arrived here prior to 13 years old. Are you suggesting that if you a trans women maybe your brain is wired differently but for CDers this can't be true?

    You pretty much leave us no other option than to be freaks.

    It might be more of a case of white kids hanging out and claiming to be Irish or English or Canadian or American.

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    I think some here need to just deal with things and stop complaining.
    The comment about women wearing whatever clothes they want and men not being able to wear womens clothes has just gotten so tiring.
    We have answered that so many times here but some don't seem to be listening.
    All this bitching and moaning needs to stop savvy? If you aren't happy then change the way you live your life and live the way you want to.
    Hard to believe some men are such cry babies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetdreams View Post





    Are you suggesting that if you a trans women maybe your brain is wired differently but for CDers this can't be true?
    .
    If your wired as a woman and know it why in the world would you live as a man?

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    It's not that black and white which is why some transition and others don't. Again the suggestion is a spectrum.

    It's possible that you could be wired to be more open to the feminine side (this seems pretty obvious for almost all of us), but does not mean you absolutely have to transition.

    I think there's a pretty good chance we aren't wired pure cis male. If there is a spectrum with cis female on the far left and cis male on the right, we are shifted to the left. There's something in our brains moving us in this direction, after all the brain is responsible for all of our behavior. If there wasn't something different we would all be cis males and not even having this discussion.
    Last edited by Lorileah; 01-29-2017 at 11:48 PM. Reason: please don't quote post above yoiurs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetdreams View Post
    The research is suggesting gender identification is a spectrum. If you put cis females on one end and cis males on the other, the middle is where the trans community fits. If we CDers are not in the middle, and we aren't at either end, where are we. Not sure transgender women and men can claim that whole middle as their private territory simply because they chose to transition and we haven't. Really, don't we all have enough challenges dealing with social pressures without turning on each other. How petty can we get.
    The research that was linked suggests two things:

    1. There is some biological evidence that shows transexual brains share certain similarities with the brains of their target sex
    2. There is some biological evidence for the distinction between gender and sexual orientation

    Even the Charlotte Observer article, which is the softest of all and the only one to address a gender identity spectrum, focuses on transsexuals suffering from gender dysphoria when discussing biological bases for any of this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetdreams View Post
    Most of us have come to this at very early ages (5 and under). I think it was around 80% arrived here prior to 13 years old. Are you suggesting that if you a trans women maybe your brain is wired differently but for CDers this can't be true?
    Regardless of my opinions on that, I'm saying the studies linked don't point to that yet. They're done on transexuals, and actual crossdressers are by definition not transexual. No good comes from applying science in ways that it doesn't support. If you want to do science on crossdressers, fund a study.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetdreams View Post
    You pretty much leave us no other option than to be freaks.
    Whether you're considered a freak or not is a sociological issue, not a biological one. If more of you step out of the closet and normalize yourselves, you might actually make some progress on it. Why are you using transexuals to validate your situation? Find your own validation.
    Last edited by Zooey; 01-29-2017 at 02:39 AM.
    Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.

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    So I guess it's not our brains doing this. It's something else......

  23. #23
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    I have no doubt your brains are involved. In many cases, both the big one and the little one.

    What I do doubt, however, is whether the mechanism of the brain's involvement in the case of CDs has anything to do with what's going on in TS brains. I might be wrong. For the moment though, the research that has shown evidence of biological support for transgender identities has focused (AFAICT) exclusively on transexuals.
    Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.

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    I could be wrong also and even the research is fairly new.

    It sounds like you are trying to defend some piece of turf you call your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetdreams View Post
    It sounds like you are trying to defend some piece of turf you call your own.
    You can look at it that way, just like I can look at it as CDs trying to appropriate transexual people's realities in order to validate themselves so the less comfortable/confident among you don't have to feel like - as you put it - "freaks"; trying to take studies on us and use them as an excuse (a not-so-metaphorical doctor's note).

    That's not my point though.

    My only point here is that it's never a good idea to apply data in a way that it doesn't actually support. Again, if you want to have evidence for what drives crossdressers, fund some scientific studies on crossdressers.
    Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.

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