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Thread: Psych's Opinion

  1. #76
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    Meghan, my response to that is... Show me the crossdressers who are trying to educate the public on that difference, rather than insisting that they should have the same types of access and legal recognitions (as women) that trans women need. I'm choosing my words carefully for forum rules reasons.

    To put it incredibly mildly, I haven't seen them. I've seen the public narrative from the trans community continuing to focus on the transexual narrative for sales purposes, while also insisting on incredibly broad legal definitions that serve only to include crossdressers in ways that directly contradict the fact that (by any definition) they are men. I literally cannot tell my cis friends that the trans community is not lobbying for men in dresses having certain kinds of access. I would think that if CDs were sharing the burden of education and exhibiting some empathy for and understanding of women's concerns, they'd be jumping into those discussions and saying "Actually, no thanks. We're the men in dresses, they're women. This is about them."
    Last edited by Zooey; 02-03-2017 at 04:49 AM.
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  2. #77
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meghan4now View Post
    the public does need to be educated to the difference between CDS and Ts. You said it yourself. In this we are bound, because in the public eye we are bound.
    Why is this necessary? Consider this:

    The distant public (the strangers you meet while out and about) only need to learn to respect the presented gender. It doesn’t matter if the person is CD or TS, if they pass or don’t pass, if they are dressed casually or for the office. We have a vast array of ages, physiognomies, socioeconomic backgrounds, among both CDs and TSs, and TSs are all along different points in their physical transition processes anyway. The typical stranger can’t tell whether someone is TS or CD nor should they be asked to figure it out. They don't have the time. They will likely think that everyone is TS anyway (since we see more TSs in the media than CDers), unless these strangers meet someone dressed in fetish garb, but this is pretty rare. And strangers will see this person as a fetish person. And if a TS has had a perfect physical transition and there is no remaining hint that she was born in a male body? Great! Then there is no need for any education.


    The close public is comprised of people you know and deal with in your day-to-day life: at work, family, friends, neighbors, etc. And with these people, it is incumbent on the individual to let the people in their life know who they are and how they want to be treated. A woman? Then act like one - transition, don’t switch back and forth, get a name change, work on the voice, do what you need to do to assimilate as a woman. A CD? Great! Let your people know that you enjoy switching back and forth and do it to the extent that you can in your milieu. Tell people that you want to be addressed as he when dressed as a guy and she when dressed as a girl. Bigender, Gender-Variant or Gender-fluid? Same thing. Explain your label and tell people you switch back and forth. Non-Binary or Queer? Find a look that works for you and that encompasses the best in boy and girl looks. Explain your label to the people you know. And enjoy being you all the time. Fetish CDer? Great, but don’t expect to be taken seriously if you go out looking like a little girl or a call-girl. We live in a puritanical society. Find all-inclusive night clubs, or move to the progressive neighborhoods in progressive cities if you want to dress fetish in public.
    Last edited by ReineD; 02-03-2017 at 05:18 AM.
    Reine

  3. #78
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    Nice response Reine.

  4. #79
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    Ok, so I am now confused. Do TS what to be differentiated from CDS or not? The general public does not make that distinction. From what I have seen here, it is a really sore point for some TS people, to the point of derision.

    When I am out in public, or when I am having a discussion, I DO make it a point to mention the difference. I am not expecting any addition rights or privileges as a CD. There are enough laws that protect me (as if a law could actually do so) from discrimination and violence that I don't see the need for additional measures. Now the rights of TS people to fully change their legal identification and enjoy the privileges of that definition are another matter. I support that, as I support a good number of other initiatives that have no direct benefit to me.

    Social acceptance is not law, and there is no accountability. As a CD, I believe that social acceptance for both CDS and TS is similar, because the public does not differentiate. From that perspective we have a shared common goal. A TS woman and a CD can be attacked just as easily. The assailant isn't going to ask questions.

    Now if you are saying, "Meghan, because your a CD, your support is not appreciated, go push rope" then I will be silent.
    Last edited by Meghan4now; 02-03-2017 at 09:13 AM.

  5. #80
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    Issh Meghan. I sort of get where you are coming from and in some senses you are right, because the general public does not differentiate then CD and TS appear to have common goals.

    However it is and will become increasingly clear to the public it is absolutely critical that an identification is made between CD and TS. Those "privileges" as you put them aren't privileges, they are necessities. Without them we are worse off than if we continued our lives in our non identified genders. They are essential to enable us to access appropriate health care, safe travel and safe environments. Without those "privileges" we can be refused access to medical services, appropriate safe environments such as womens shelters, or even incarcerated and abused by the state just for being alive.

    You are right that a CD and a TS woman can be just as easily attacked. But here's the thing that CD's need to understand because this is possibly the biggest reason why TS harbour resentment towards CD's, particularly those playing dress up in the closet. We are at risk of being attacked / approached inappropriately EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF OUR LIVES. 24/7/365.

    So Meghan if you want to support TS then great, I'm happy to have you covering my back. But you have to support me every moment of every day, dressed up or not, down the bar with your work mates or at home with your family. EVERY MOMENT. You do that and yeah, I'll back you up as you explain to people that hey, I'm not female but I like to express myself in a way that some people think is feminine sometimes.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meghan4now View Post
    Ok, so I am now confused. Do TS what to be differentiated from CDS or not? The general public does not make that distinction. From what I have seen here, it is a really sore point for some TS people, to the point of derision.
    There are different opinions on the subject. Here's my question, which I have to phrase carefully for rules reasons. While dressed in public, do you do anything or expect/use certain kinds of access that would effectively require you to be treated "as a woman" from a legal perspective in order to be justified? If not, do you tell people why it's not appropriate for you to do that, as compared to trans women?

    If you in effect take those rights for yourself, or fail to explain why you ought not to have them but trans women should, then you are not really doing much to declare or explain that difference in any way of significance. If you say to people, "I am a cross dressing man but I expect/want/need to be treated as a woman legally while wearing certain clothes", then what message are you really sending people about trans women and the differences between us?
    Last edited by Zooey; 02-03-2017 at 12:17 PM.
    Coming out is like discovering that you've been drowning your whole life after actually breathing air for the first time.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate T View Post
    You are right that a CD and a TS woman can be just as easily attacked. But here's the thing that CD's need to understand because this is possibly the biggest reason why TS harbour resentment towards CD's, particularly those playing dress up in the closet. We are at risk of being attacked / approached inappropriately EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF OUR LIVES. 24/7/365.
    It's interesting that instead of fostering a bit of a bond based on what we do share (please don't jump on me here - I'm not saying we are the same), that the TS community tends to chastise the CD community that is generally sympathetic and supportive. I don't think many CDers harbor resentment toward the TS community but the opposite can't be said.

  8. #83
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    Zooey,

    We are hijacking the thread, but no, I have no expectation for legal rights specifically applied to women. Thread worthy discussion and we can pm.

    Back to the original post?

  9. #84
    Pirate Queen wannabe Maria Blackwood's Avatar
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    Nice to know I'm resented. That's basically my takeaway from this regardless of whatever reasons are given for the resentment. I'm sorry. I just don't know what anyone wants from me when I don't even know what I am or want.
    Last edited by Maria Blackwood; 02-03-2017 at 01:46 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meghan4now View Post
    ...
    We are hijacking the thread, ...
    True, this has gone way beyond the OP

    Back to the original post?
    Not without lots of editing to prevent it getting again, thread done
    Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said

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