DADT, (don't ask, don't tell). What does that REALLY MEAN!?

[docrobbysherry]

To many here it seems to mean, " sneak, hide, and lie". So, why not just call it, SHL", instead?

To me and my disapproving university attending, adult daughter who lives with me, it means this:

I felt I had to tell her or I would get caught. Sneaking around became so stressful it was ruining the enjoyment of dressing after she moved in full time at age 18.
Now, I tell her in advance when I will dress and where in the house and/or grounds I will be dressed and filming. We discuss where she will be so she won't see me.

She doesn't like it. But, as our therapist explained, "CD's can't give this up when they r as involved as your dad is. So, if it bothers u that much u can move out or come to a compromise that works for u both." And, it has. She doesn't ever have to see me dressed and my dressing is exciting, relaxing, and stress free again!

What does DADT mean to u? Why don't u call it SHL if u won't/can't discuss it with your SO to work out a compromise?

[Johninabra]

In our home it means don't ask for permission to wear a bra and cover it up and don't tell her I have one on. She mostly chooses to ignore the fact l like to wear bras, but recently agreed to me ordering forms and has gone bra shopping with me a couple of times. By the way when I wear forms I go from a 46b to a dd and it seems that they can't be ignored so not to push the envelope to hard I only wear them when she is away.

[ClosetED]

Sherry, it is very different with an adult child than a spouse. If the adult child doesn't like it, they can move out. FOr a spouse to do that, it is heading for divorce. And the US Army came up with DADT, but SHL is accurate.
To me DADT was all that was option to divorce - she knew for decades I liked to wear hose/heels and wanted dresses. But more than occasional festishistic use was unbearable to her image of what a husband should be. And she said it was fear of damage to the family that let her even put up with that. So when, as the kids began to leave the nest, I asked for more, she refused and offered DADT - do what you want but leave me out of it. I don't want to see it, hear about it, discuss it, see bills for things, read about it. So yes, I had to turn into a liar, cheat, sneak in order to be honorable to her request.
with the new end of DADT, she hung dresses in my closet and bought me hundreds of dollars of clothes and has seen pictures of me. I am amazed at the change and am so glad to not have to lie or sneak and free to discuss. I am doing this slowly as I expect her to swing back and forth on it.
Hugs, Ellen

[Teresa]

Sherry,
Maybe we could change it to DWTSI, = Don't want to see it .
OK I go out socially , we do discuss it sometimes and some of the problems some have and maybe a funny moment.

Whatever you choose to call the situation it's not ideal, there are always things left unsaid, and many things being withheld , but if that's how they deal with it we don't have a choice. I asked sometime ago in a thread if members enjoyed the double life , I have to accept it's as good as it gets, my wife also accepts I'm living a double life, I'm not sure how happy she is with it but that's what DADT is all about.

[LaurenDeHart]

The only way DADT could apply to us is if it were difficult to identify us as male when we're dressed and about. Don't ask, don't tell. However, that's not reality IMHO. We dress to our tastes and embellish for pleasurable effect. That's means something different to each and every one of us. So, I don't think DADT could possibly apply to our lifestyle as it is out there right in front, even in our own homes. It's not like we're talking about doing our toe nails then slipping on socks. I vote for SHL.

Lauren

[Susan Smith]

For me it has the same meaning as 'don't rub my nose in it'. My wife knows I like to dress in a feminine way occassionaly, but doesn't want to be constantly reminded of it. Sometimes she's very relaxed about it (even does my nails for me) but that's on her terms, not mine. Susan

[JenniferMBlack]

I dont have a DADT situation now nut before it was i dont care that you do it or when tou do it or how you do it. I just dint want to see it or know about it before during or after. Much the same as with everythimg else i did she had no interest in. It got to when she asked what I did on my day off what eber it was she would say oh thats good dont care any more. Now we are divorced and she womders why.

[Stephanie47]

If it truly "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" it should mean a total absence of any reminders of a husband's cross dressing. Is it "sneaking" if the only opportunity for a man to dress is when his wife is out of the house or he dresses away from home? Does a wife really expect her husband to respond to a question like "What are you going to do while I'm visiting my parents out of state?" She should know hubby is going to dress. Is it lieing to pay cash for female clothing so she is not riled up about credit card purchases? I think not.

My wife has not made a single comment about my cross dressing in over thirty years. I do not tell her of my purchases. I do not shave my body, although I do not have any hair on my legs or underarms anyway. I get somewhat amused when I read posts of DADT and the husband decides to shave off his body hair. Is that DADT? To go from hairy ape to body bald? No. Is it DADT to grow out fingernails that now look like claws. No. It is not DADT if the wife makes caustic remarks about cross dressing while watching advertisements or shows in which a man wearing a dress appears.

I do not
Sneak
Hide
Lie

[Steph65]

I do not have a DSAHDLT situmentation here. My wife does not mind at all. Could all that mean deceiving? could be but you have to remember in this day and age things are starting to be more accepting and the old Church mentoring is out the door. JMHO

[Rogina B]

Sherry,
Maybe we could change it to DWTSI, = Don't want to see it .

Seems to me to be the ultimate put down ! How many years together? It baffles me how some of you aren't able to be free.

[Laura912]

We have a DAIAT relationship...dress anytime in any thing. It is wonderful.

[Sara Jessica]

Seems to me to be the ultimate put down ! How many years together? It baffles me how some of you aren't able to be free.

It baffles me how many here just cannot empathize with the women in our lives who struggle daily with this thing of ours.


Back to our original programming....

DADT implies a lack of communication and it certainly could include that element without completely degenerating into SHL territory. There is however merit to the notion of not rubbing her nose in it. I called this elsewhere yeah, whatever (y,w) which is how things are in my world. It's like "do what you will, I really don't need to see it or be involved so much, but if it comes up in conversation for whatever reason, I am certainly capable of talking about it".

[JeanTG]

Sara Jessica, I agree. "It's not all about me" is a good starting point for any dialogue.

DADT means whatever Mrs. wants it to mean. Mine struggles with this. She's known since well before we married but still can't wrap her head around it. She knows it happens but prefers not to have anything to do with it. She knows if I repress it, I become angry and frustrated and a bitch to live with. She doesn't want that either. The compromise is for me to make it happen on my own time and my own dime and she knows when she's not home, the chances are almost 100% that I will dress. But we know I'm a crossdresser, we have no fear of using the term "crossdresser" when talking about me, and she is wide-open and accepting of panties 24/7.

Would I love more? Sure. Would I love to be able to stay dressed even after she gets home? Of course. Would I love for her to help me unhook my bra as I get undressed for bed, and then be OK with me slipping on a nightie and going to bed? Absolutely. But it isn't happening any time soon.

So we take it at a pace she can stand, without blocking me entirely which I couldn't stand.

[phili]

Let's face it, DADT is a coping technique of human nature- also called IATPMHITS I agree to put my head in the sand- ok enough acronym jokes, but we who do DADT understand that our SOs are trying to cope, and just like a lot of things, we are a binary star system, so we have to adjust- and try not to have it be SHL! Our SOs suffer from realizing they have to not ask either what we are doing when they are away, so we won't tell them, and that is a drag for them since it brings back the knowledge despite our not telling !

I am trying to be philosophical, and measured in my approach. My wife understands it is a deep thing, and a quirk of nature somehow, but she is an ADCOAA [adult child of an alcoholic- ok I made that up] and she is trying the best she can to not suffer from someone else [me] who has deep problems [in her view]. We're seeing a counselor, who encourages her to be more generous in her attitude and not to feel like I am controlling her life just by having a differing point of view. Relationship is a complex stew under any circumstances.

I have had to admit that for me crossdressing is a doorway shortcut to nirvana, permits my fantasy world to come alive- and I can easily justify it! But listening to politicians justifying taking away medical care from the poor exemplifies for me the fact that we tend to be blind to others' needs, and simplify our reasoning so we can maximize our pleasure, wherever we can.

My conclusion is that DADT is a pretty good compromise, as it essentially allows us as DocSherry says, to have what we want/need with a minimum of disruption to others for whom our desires are threatening or disturbing or unhinging [my wife]. I ask when she is coming home, and I set my alarm so I can change clothes at my own pace and know how long I have to enjoy freely! I have my clothes in the bedroom closet, and she has to put up with some exposure when I dry my handwash lingerie. I think she accepts that as part of her cost, and that works as long as it is not so painful it upsets the bargain. I create a little relief so I don't explode- sometimes I tell her I can't wait till she is gone, and she puts up with the view, but her numbness is painful.

IMHO DADT is SP- Shared Pain. I suspect all our SOs in DADT are quite aware that we are dressing and that it is something that they have decreed we are not sharing, and that bothers them a lot. They are trying to stay with us and immunize themselves against our cooties, and thanks to human nature being able to focus only on one thing at a time, life can go on pretty well.

I have to admit that even if she was super supportive, it wouldn't change conditions outside the house, so I would be focused on the limitations there and could be unhappy about that instead. So I don't take the point of view she /DADT is unreasonable. Everyone in the world is suffering from gender binary training, and coping as best they can.

[Shelly Preston]

DADT will mean slightly different things thing to each couple.

Some will have the completely I don't want to know or see anything.

To some others it will mean we have a compromise. I know what your doing and I will try to help by giving you the time and space you need.

[Tina_gm]

In response to Sarah Jessica.... whenever I see the complaining oder a DADT arrangement, I think two things. 1, they the complainer agreed with the arranged to, and 2. Have little regard for their struggling partner who could easily pack their bags and say to hell with this.

This DADT arrangement is more of their loving way of allowing us to be ourselves then most realize. It's not a prison, it's a loving compromise. In the end it doesn't fully matter why our partners are struggling to accept us. Genetics of heterosexuality.... social issues, religious aspects.... whatever they are, our partners are going against that grain accepting often as best they can to allow us to be ourselves and continue being with us. Discussing something they do not like or understand, the discussions will rarely go well. Seeing us in a manner they do not. The reactions generally won't go well. DADT is or can be a great relationship saver AND we no longer hide, sneak and lie, and more than likely dress more than we did before.

[sometimes_miss]

During the declining months of my marriage we went abruptly from a seemingly accepting situation to, DADT. Obviously, she knew I dressed, but she no longer wanted to see it. So, back in the closet I went. But, as folks here often say, you can't unrighteousness a bell , or unscramble an egg.

^This reflects my experience. As she got firmly convinced by others that I had done something horrible, she gradually got very angry with me, to the point where whenever we brought it up, she became furious. That was when she started trying to get me to move out. Luckily, I was told by friends not to, until we had a legal separation in place. Turns out she would have been able to just claim abandonment or something and the house would have defaulted to her.

[Joni T]

My wife and I have NO secrets. What DADT means to me is this: if you're doing something that you don't want your spouse/SO to know about, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
Jon

[Rogina B]

Seems to me that by agreeing to "the terms" you are acknowledging that it is a perversion of sorts.

[Tina_gm]

Regina, I do not have a full DADT arrangement.... we have discussions, my nails are typically on the long side, I shave just about everywhere.... and I'm not REALLY arguing with you, I prefer to say I'm counter pointing. Especially when it comes to those who didn't disclose till many years into marriage.

If in that situation especially, the wife won't ever "like it" and many hetero women simply won't, due to being hetero, what is there really to discuss? Present female NOW after so long.... in their eyes ya didn't NEED to then, don't need to now. And in a way, they are right. It's just a better for some way of dealing with it all.

My wife doesn't like seeing me dressed. Tried it once finally, and it turned into a disaster. She's not leaving me over it. Still can be intimate with me, shaved legs and all. But me wearing women's clothing is just a train wreck for her. It just is what it is. It's not any type of I shouldn't, in fact as I sit here tapping this out she's giving me time to dress. So I just counter this notion of DADT being some sort of living hell as a workable arrangement. Obviously not the case with those who are ts, or much more on the female side then make side, but for those us straddling the fence, its not perfect, but better then alternatives.

[Karen's Secret]

In my house it means dress when my wife and kids are not home. All I have to do is tell her I need some time and she will accommodate me without judgement. She's okay with me underdressing as long as the outline of my bra is not obvious. We can talk about clothes, shop for clothes only if it looks like she is shopping for herself, and she has no problem borrowing my clothes. I know I have it better than others, however I would of course like to be more at liberty to dress when, where, and how I want.

[ginapoodle]

Excellent question and I appreciate the sharing.

For my wife and I basically I have my femme clothes up in a suitcase on a high shelf in my closet. When she is out of the house, or rarely out of town I dress. Sometimes I do under dress. She does NOT want to see me in anything, or any makeup, ever. She goes to tears. God help her, she tried to accommodate me about ten years ago, it was too much. We are close to 30 years married now, and I keep the secret 20 years. We did the counseling, etc and modern media has shown I am not the only CD on the planet. Also when I travel alone, I also dress and take items. It is called compromise. Every relationship is different. I do admit wishing she was more understanding. Also I do not have the courage to be rejected again, hence I have shut down any communication on my F self. Otherwise we communicate pretty well. Guess that's it for now. I don't see the situation changing unless I got really proactive and courageous and took enormous risks.

[Leslie Langford]

Interesting thread, but none of the responders who have posted above so far seem to have addressed the core issue here - and the proverbial elephant in the room.

Call it DADT, SHL, DWTSI, DSAHDLT, IATPMHITS, y,w,... IDK, whatever...it all boils down to one thing: by setting up these "rules", our wives or SO's force us into a position of feeling dirty and ashamed (read: "pervy") for being who we are and what we are driven to do. Moreover, they then oblige us to sneak around behind their backs to be able to clandestinely express this part of ourselves as though we were some sort of criminals...all for the sake of alleged "marital harmony", and just to keep the lady of the house in a state of delusional (but "blissful") ignorance. That, of course, is the biggest joke (supreme irony?) of all about this whole thing. What harmony, and really, who are we kidding here?

Sure, many of us entered into our long-term relationships with our wives or SO's without full disclosure upfront, and the reasons (excuses?) as well as the pros and cons around this fateful and far-reaching decision on our parts have been beaten to death ad nauseum in innumerable threads here, so I won't even go there. I am as guilty of this act of omission as the next person here, but it is what it is. And yes, putting our wives or SO's in a position of being "stuck" with a crossdresser against their will and without their prior knowledge is something that we are generally prepared to own and acknowledge, hence our acquiescence in allowing ourselves to be manipulated in this way through the sheer power of guilt.

But the most corrosive and debilitating aspect of this whole DADT-esque scenario and the one which hasn't been addressed properly here is that our wives and SO's never get to know their "real" partner because of this...not the "sanitized" image that is presented to the rest of the world, not the idealized version that they so desperately cling to, not the "perfect" husband/boyfriend/life partner/father/male role model illusion that they strive to maintain, but the one with all the ugly (albeit unseen) warts and associated baggage that their partners carry along with all their good points, but that no one wants to acknowledge or talk about.

I feel confident that I know my wife - and what makes her "tick" - inside and out after having lived with her during the past 45 years of marriage. But when it comes to myself, there is a whole other side of me that she knows nothing about, nor wants to. This is not a lie that I really want to live given my 'druthers, yet at the same time, she wonders why we don't share the same level of intimacy - and "soulmate" bond - that other couples whom we know seem to. So sad...

THAT, unfortunately, is the real curse of DADT and the like...

[ginapoodle]

Leslie,

My wife gave a strong attempt at getting to know Gina. She was overwhelmed. Timing was also bad: mother killed in car wreck, father also severely injured, and our oldest daughter graduated from high school and went to college. I also switched jobs. Everything hit the fan all at once. Wife went into depression for 2 years. That was about ten years ago. So, my point: timing and waves and changes in a long term relationship make a difference. I am grateful to be married, and never divorced. I am also grateful we get along as well as we do. Agree though: it is sad and I feel lonely. I refuse to feel guilty though. Self acceptance is strong. I recently had a friend show some strong interest in Gina, and that sparked some internal focus on my F self, and now what. Thank you.

[Wen4cd]

Seems to me that by agreeing to "the terms" you are acknowledging that it is a perversion of sorts.

I wouldn't say that. But it is an extremely self-centered, often extremely narcissistic pastime. A side of us most of our wives would rather not care to acknowledge or foster, and one no one finds very attractive (except ourselves of course, and those we cherry-pick as friends just for that reason, which is just the nature of the beast.)

Most wives I know would gladly tolerate a pervert husband over a selfish, greedy, narcissist one any day.