I can't believe where this thread has gone.
Started as a fantasy type question now its men making up stuff like they really know about such things.
I can't believe where this thread has gone.
Started as a fantasy type question now its men making up stuff like they really know about such things.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 04-20-2017 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Removed reference to deleted material
Welcome to the scientific world Tracii G. This is what we do all day.
Sandin,
Am I suppose to be amused by your comments? I hope they are said in good humour !
I do get fed up with people telling me what is inside my brain and suggesting it's BS, none of us have the right or knowledge to do that , we all have a different set of circumstances that influenced our CDing, you know what you are and I know what I am we are different ! Being a scientist still won't give you all the answers to CDing otherwise why do you need to be on the forum ? I hope not to abuse other members !
Sorry but none of us truly know what goes on in the mothers womb , I feel it's dangerous ground to delve into that area, some us could start blaming out mothers for our mis-wiring. Children of my generation were very naive, we had very little knowledge of sexual matters, yes much of it was a mystery,how it started was traumatic rather than pleasureable. I did not write the experience off how could I ? It has influenced me the rest of my life, I know that is when my GD started and also AGP .
If you care to checkout the latest statistics you will find the gender clinics in the UK overflowing right across the age groups, for some reason there is a growth in the TG numbers but I'm not going to argue that point with you .
Last edited by Teresa; 04-19-2017 at 10:16 AM.
Teresa, always in good humour in debate. Maybe also some exasperation.
Sandin all this has been postulation and conjecture nothing scientific yet.
I don't know why people here are so hung up on the "what ifs" thought processes.
Discuss "what is" instead that way we all learn something positive and don't add more stuff to worry about.
Had you never seen a woman...
Where would your motivation to dress/behave feminine come from? This is assuming you accept the binary gender model.
Heading back to the original post, the answer, at least to me, is simple, - you wouldn't.
I can vividly remember one of my earliest distinct memories of being little more than a baby and sitting on my mother's or big sister's knees and being captivated and enthralled with (of course absolutely pre-sexually) the softness of their breasts and oddly and mostly, by the unique texture and look of their hosed legs which I would brush with my little hands in wonder and exploration. There was something distinct and sensually mesmerizing from even that early time which just gripped me and wouldn't let me go. On the feminine form, the nylons were both some invisible barrier and yet part of what was female flesh. Not much later on, while watching television with the family in the living room in the dark I would always find my way to my sister's feet, lying on the floor caressing her stockinged feet and ankles and shins. She probably liked it, at least humoured it, and no harm was done except for the deepening of my lifelong yearning for the look and feel of feminine hosed limbs. They seemed inseparably a part of what was feminine. This pull has never for a moment left me, only gaining momentum and power with time and development. Of course in adolescence that obsession grew until it exploded (as it were). Once when I was 6 or so, my sister dressed me up supposedly for Halloween, in her tights which I proudly then paraded around in to the amused laughter of all but inside I was absolutely frothing with delight.
At the point when things became sexual, women's secret silky underthings wrapped around the feminine form were inseparably entwined with my desires. Like many young boys, my first lasting relationship was with the Sear's catalogue. There soon came a time where I just had to feel these displayed sexy desirables next to my own skin. I tried on my mum's stockings and that was it. I was a gonner. When I was about 12 I found my sister's exercise leotard and tights in which I then left several stains while wearing them. (sorry to all the sisters out there with brothers but this pull is much more powerful than mere gravity)
As time went on, the urge only got stronger. I not only wanted to get inside a woman (which I definitely did) but I wanted to be inside a woman, to know what it felt like to be so sexy and desirable and soft and silky and dress prettily, and smell like spring flowers, to know what it felt like to be a woman I desired so uncontrollably. I wanted to eat my cake and be it too. But the closest we can come is to crossdress and pretend with all our might. I don't think that crossdressers are fundamentally gay (though they may well be here and there) but are so obsessed with women that they want to possess and wield the very power that possesses them, even to the point of exercising that sexual power over other men. I know I would. But I think it's women we really worship and envy and desire to the point of maddened distraction.
Well I'm out of steam for now though I have more to say on this. I'm new here and somehow wrote this 3 separate times without it posting somehow and then losing it. I've got to glide my vanity fair slip over this black Wonderbra, LaSenza black satin panties, suntan Oroblu thigh highs and slither blissfully around in bed. 'night night for now. talk soon
Swish is my sign off text throwaway like "nice one" and your wand seems to have been carved from the same tree.
Uncanny. Is this my cosmic sibling or a clever deception? Fully agree wirh your answer. Nice shoes.
I agree with Pat. There are core gender and sexual traits that kind of set the stage for a life role. You are born either male or female or intersex in rare cases. But that is genetics and biology. However, there does seem to be some basic behavioral traits that are sex linked and those provide the foundation for gender identity development. Males are naturally more analytical and these are categorized as instrumental skills. Females are more expressive and more concerned with the relationships between things. But some females are analytical and some males are expressive. So, it is not a sure thing; it is just what usually happens. The basic male role is to gather food, fix things like build shelters, be a protector, etc. The basic female skills is to care for the offspring with the male's help and support. Thus the family unit has a higher probability of surviving. But those basic skills seem to be our genetically based behavior skill set genetics and biology provides to insure survival of the species. Everything beyond that is culture.
Culture though takes those basic biological skills needed to survive and expands them to make the implementation of those skills more effective. In reproductive roles the female is the attractor and male is the pursuer. Culture has developed means to make the selection of mates more effective and competitive. But if those core skills are somewhat mixed or even reversed in a particular individual they might associate their identity with the "wrong" gender relative to their sex. It isn't really wrong; it is just the way the genes were configured that provided them with a predisposition to be attracted to the gender behaviors of the opposite sex, either completely or in part. But it is only a predisposition and sometimes the triggering influence never happens. If it is triggered then the predisposition becomes active and there is a desire to express, to some degree, the other gender.
That is the latest theory, but as Pat said earlier, the jury is still out. The actual verified cause is still unknown. What is known is that the behavior is very complex and not nearly as simple as most people tend to think it is. The lines between male and female roles are not very clear when one looks at the whole package. Anthropology shows that in human societies there is a vast range of gender behaviors and roles that are attached to the sex of people. The way we define it in our culture and the roles we have adopted are hardly universal. Some cultures have everything reversed relative to the way we do it. Males are caregivers; females are providers. Yet where they overlap they help each other and thus their culture is successful. So, it appears that a lot of what constitutes gender expression appears to be culturally determined and is overlain on basic sexual differentiation and sometimes can over rule the biology, even in a complete culture. Not as simple as it seems.
Swish,
I may ruffle a few feathers here but it's not the intention. Much of your history is possibly to do with AGP.
The way my CDing started was earlier at the age of 8-9 and it all happened with a bang. the problem I had was I really didn't know what was going on, kids of my age group were far more naive , most of knew nothing about sex . So my attraction to a swim suit was all in my head , all I knew was I wanted to be inside it because it simulated a woman's body in a sexual way. That tied all the loose ends together , my male side and my female one along with women and their clothes all intertwined with my sexual needs. That feeling has never gone away I want to be seen and accepted as a woman and also share with a woman.
All your descriptions of the soft clothing are imitations of soft female skin , most women love wearing it and most men love to see it because of the sexual attraction it suggests .
There is no predisposition to wearing a bra. Completely learned. Even if we had a predisposion to emulate a sepcific gende, wearing a bra qould still not be part of that.
Problem with this forum is this gender obsession. No such thing. Another flawed social machine that society has outgrown but continues to utilise. There is no argument anywhere that stands as an inherent need or want of man or woman to wear a bra. So many words but no sense.
Sorry Teresa, as I said, new here. AGP?
A Girl's Perspective?,
Admire Gams (in) Pantyhose?
Acronyms Generate Puzzlement?
Sandin, thanks for the compliment on my shoes. They're my favourites.
Swish,
You may not find helpful info on the forum but AGP is short for Autogynephilia, first suggested by Ray Blanchard, the term simply means to love oneself as a woman. Blanchard only related it to TS and sexuality so made many enemies . I have dug deeper and been sent updated work to cover TGs with AGP. Please don't believe all you hear it is not all connected with sexual content, it covers a wide range of traits that are linked to wanting to be female in some form or another . It isn't for everyone but I've been well informed that how my CDing started is a classic example.The important thing is I know what makes me tick now so I can go on and deal with it. It may be inevitable that transition will happen to a degree. Some again will say that's not possible if you have GD it's all or nothing, the bottom line is finding a balance in your own life, at some point you may have to ignore adverse comments, we are all different so we must find our own answers that work for us as individuals .
Sandin,
Initially nothing to do with external influences, we are wired differently our brain uses the chemistry in different ways, if you have GD you have to come to terms with it, it doesn't matter what clothes you wear the problem still remains . I'm sorry if you don't get it but it's not an obsession . I still can't give a definite answer where I am on the gender road, all I know is it's a constant feeling so I'm bi-gender and not gender fluid because I don't experience an ebb and flow , I don't experience weeks or months of inactivity .
For whatever it's worth - I have been doing a lot of home renovations the last few months, the original work was post war middle class, and built to last forever, the "renovations" done in the 70's were done by a contractor who had never heard of a framing square - lots of 40%, 85% angles that I'm dealing with.
I was thinking about it a lot while working - my solution is to create a "fixed point" in what I'm working on, and make the work true and square to it.
long lead in
I met with my GI therapist yesterday, and said I've figured out my own personal "fixed point" - at no time in my life can I remember not being certain that I wasn't male.
So if there's no such thing, how can it be "problem with this forum"?Originally Posted by Sandin Meknickers
You seem to mix a very mechanical view of how human beings work with a very abrasive, confrontational style and telegraphic writing. It makes it hard to differentiate you from a troll. But I'm assuming a troll would have moved on by now. So I'll offer this -- mechanical models of how humans behave have always failed in the past. Two people, given the same inputs, almost always provide different outputs -- even in childhood studies where you can't posit accumulated experience to be what's making the difference. You think a male wearing a bra makes no sense because you can't suss out a link between the action of wearing a bra and biological processes in a human body. That's OK. It's OK not to understand something. But it's not OK to get dismissive of the folks around you because you can't understand. If there's not a direct link, there may be an indirect link -- there are actually people studying gender behavior in universities and institutes around the world (best work seems to be coming out of the Netherlands.) Read up. In the mean time, try being respectful to the folks you don't understand. My experience has been that they deserve belief even if you can't offer understanding.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
Teresa, you're whatever you are and it's OK. You don't have to keep justifying with I was born this way. I only ask questions to see the lengthy and bizarre explanations. In truth it matters not how you come to be. Just get a core identity, get happy with it and crack on.
Pat, I'm not a troll. I'm just a plain old pain in the backside. I can't help it. I'm not sure if I was born this way or maybe was exposed to one and now it's all i can be. It's an overly complex thing that i'm basing my whole identity on. I can discard good human values like strength and clarity. The chemicals in my body react differently.
Last edited by Sandin Meknickers; 04-25-2017 at 01:23 PM.
I get so much thrill from wearing women's slippery silken secret treasures and letting my imagination take me to flights of ecstasy on the wings of those frillies that I don't ever want to change from it. And I'm ok with it, and I don't need/want the security of some clinical title for my "condition" from the most very authoritative sources in the most respected research institutes, authored by the most somber visages (I've got one of those dusty slips of paper from a University somewhere around here) just to allow and lend me and bestow upon me a legitimized sense that I actually do fit cosily into some safe niche compartment within whatever range of "normal" that lets other folks who need such comfort, sleep at night. Normal is soooo overrated! Human beings are all a bloody mess of odd incomprehensible feelings and bizarre thoughts. Enjoy it, celebrate it, share it with the sympathetic and understanding. I don't flaunt my secret desires in anything more public than this forum. The mob is ignorant, cruel, loves to persecute, categorize and cram and hammer any errant human oddities it doesn't understand into little boxes with labels fit for filing and safe storage and I won't expose myself to the influence of that ignorance and superiority. Don't start being that way here with each other. If being like you are, and your hidden desires cause you painful confusion, by all means find some professional help for it. No one should live like that, and I'm sure there are many kind and understanding therapists that can help you come to terms with them. But, shouldn't this be a place for the like minded and feeling to share our experiences and thoughts and feelings and delights and delicious secrets? Rather than subjecting one another to pseudo-scientific theoretical psychoanalytic speculations of amateurs, even well meaning amateurs?
P.S. By the way, you should glimpse and get a feel of the luscious, oily Dim Sublime pantyhose I'm wearing that inspired this tirade. There, run your hand softly just there. Ooooooh, delicious aren't they?
Swish , You did ask so I explained it ,sorry you see it that way. I said it's not for everybody but I do resent being told that my information came from amateurs, I contacted several professional doctors who proved very helpful, it's given me more of an insight into my situation and transition. I'm not interested in boxes either but I do need to know what makes me tick, so I can explain future action I might take with my family.
Sandin,
You really will have to tone it down some , to call someone's explanation and their CDing life history a bizarre explanation is bordering rudeness, I'm beginning to agree with Pat and think you are here to troll the members and abuse their good nature .
You have to realise some people are in a desperate state when they come here, I wasn't too good myself . I really needed to ask questions and read the helpful replies to move forward , your comments are far from helpful to vulnerable members, it's not surprising some lurk for years before daring to ask a question. Maybe you should consider others more before being pointlessly flippant , there is a time and a place, try and learn the difference .
Last edited by Teresa; 04-25-2017 at 02:18 PM.
Hi there Teresa, you're right, I did ask. I suppose I wasn't prepared for the answer, and truthfully I didn't like it. But I am sorry for the offence I've given you by my comments. What I said though it wasn't directed singularly towards you, certainly couldn't be defended as having excluding you. I sincerely hope your path helps you find your way to peace with yourself and your family. I regret hurting your feelings. There's no place for that here either.
Don't be so hard on Sandin. If you read him rightly he's just mucking about like the rest of us trying to find his way and a little company along the road too.
Swish,
You can see how long I've been on the forum and I do concern myself that some people do have dire stories and it hurts them deeply to even open up here.
I remember recalling my story for the first time on the forum when I nearly ended my life through my CDing and my wife's acceptance.Tears were streaming down my cheeks, it really was a rollercoster ride when I first joined . It may have sounded harsh but some people here really are suffering in silence,fearing to take the first step and tell the World their story .
Teresa, as I said, I am very sincerely sorry for the offence I gave and now more especially after hearing of your suffering and ongoing tenderness and difficulty related to it.
Please consider the possibility though that that sensitivity doesn't excuse you from the responsibility of touching someone else's nerve. Where you had sparked my flint in the first place was in your first response to me in "Much of your history is possibly to do with AGP." and though to a lesser degree, "All your descriptions of the soft clothing are imitations of soft female skin , most women love wearing it and most men love to see it because of the sexual attraction it suggests ." Not to rub an already sore spot, but no matter how many "professional doctors" and experts you have personally consulted with, it doesn't give you such prescriptive license with me or anyone else. You are not one even if I wanted the opinion of one, which I distinctly don't. It is very generous for you to share your painful personal experiences that they might be a light to others if they so wish, but please don't suggest any acronyms whose influence I might be under. I've been in consultation with a number of surgeons in the last two years, but think it best I leave your gall bladder removal to them. That you've got me wrong only miffed me, but might do genuine harm to someone else. I've no doubt you've learned enormously from intensity of your suffering and the process of reconciliation with it but it does not make you an expert on others.
I am very glad that you are receiving the help from those who have been so able to give it but I think we all (myself included in my own tirade as I read it again) make the mistaken assumption that others are just like us. That of course is true to a point or we wouldn't all be here seeking the affirmation of our community but I remain standing by that perhaps we should restrict our advice to those who request it and leave clinical analysis to those who are qualified.
Please Teresa, I had never wanted to make a war of this. You seem like a very nice sensitive person. Is it possible to call a truce on that you unconsciously miffed me and I regretfully responded hurtfully? If not, then I surrender. Your hurt outranks my miff.
Swish,
That's OK, sometimes people aren't aware of of other possible answers , the few short facts I gave you might have opened that thught line for you . I did say it wasn't for everyone, I know the outbursts that have happened in the past over mentioning AGP .
I also accept that each member is different ,what drives one doesn't affect another, luckily we can share those thoughts and hopefully give an opinion without hurting anyone.
Truce accepted , maybe I owe you an apology , for forcing the issue too much .
When dealing with complex phenomena that appear to have multiple factors and courses of action, finding "actual answers" is almost impossible. And there is a possibility that the "actual answers" are many and depend on the individual and the particulars of their life experiences. I think it was Pat that said that perhaps you are thinking of this in too mechanical fashion. As a biologist I can assure you living organisms are anything but mechanical entities. The variations are almost always vast and working out the "norm" is exceedingly difficult and never sure. We are adaptive organisms and thus we all follow paths that vary widely simply because our experiences are all so different. It is not all chemistry and physics. In my opinion, you are still being dismissive and seem to expect cleanly cut answers. You are really not going to find it. Not in the posts here which deal with personal concerns, problems, as well as joys. And you aren't going to find it in the science either. Even the best scientific explanations have rather low levels of confidence. They are better than guessing, but they are far from certain or applicable to every situation. I suggest perhaps you should be less deterministic in your quest for answers. Cause and effect in biology is rarely linear; much more commonly it is multi-dimensional. And I can think of few places where one can grasp the multidimensional character than on this forum. It is a beautiful thing.
You mean like this outfit?
Attachment 276085
I dearly love bright colors but this is too strong for my skin tone and even the Jacket is a bit small around the bust-belly.
Remember this: Elaphants are a bit hard to fit unless you have a tent or two laying around and a machine that can sew the stuff.
Leslie Mary Shy
Remember this:
You do not have to be a man to love a woman, or be a woman to love women's clothes on her or yourself.
_________________________
And yet, decades of research by psychiatrists, psycologists, etc. have rejected each of those three cases as reasons for transgenderism. In fact, if those things were the reason for transgenderism, then it could be "cured" with therapy. It does not appear to be cureable which is why so many medical bodies now endorse treatment by helping the patient align their outer appearance with their inner gender. The thing most completely agreed upon is that whatever causes it, it's set before birth. It's nature not nurture that causes it although nurture can certainly affect its expression.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
Sandin,
Many thanks for the compliment , you've just made my day, us girls can have that affect on the guys !
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