I met a woman while dancing, please GG too, sorry a long post....

[IamWren]

There’s a lot to unpack as this thread has progressed.
First, I think it’s pretty brave for Doreen to post her account of this event. Honestly, I’m not sure I’d have the guts to write such a personal (and somewhat embarrassing) story about meeting a new woman and the ensuing events. I say embarrassing because upon reflection, it seems Doreen sees her actions as having been wrong.

The second thing is it’s pretty easy to be a “Monday morning coach” (for our friends who are not from the U.S. that phrase comes from American football games being played on Sundays and all the armchair quarterbacks standing around the workplace watercooler analyzing and saying what went wrong in the game on Monday morning) Anyway, my point is that I think it’s easy to cast stones at Doreen after the fact.

About this new woman, your marriage and going out dancing until the next morning…
I think you should stop communicating with that new woman and stay from the places she goes. It sounds like it could lead to trouble in a number of ways. I think it would be wise to stop behaving like you are a single person, which from my American perspective it sounds like.

But I’m not sure it’s so much a cultural thing as it is a Doreen thing. I have a few friends who are from Europe who live here as well as some family who live in Germany. I don’t see or hear anything from them that would resemble staying gone from their house for days.
I hope you’re able to steer your marriage back on a path of trust.
S.

[Lana Mae]

Doreen, I think you have learned a lesson but is it a small lesson or a big lesson? Do you plan to turn around and go out clubbing, drinking and dancing again or change that? Keep you wife and child in mind when you answer these questions! Just some things to think about! Best wishes Hugs Lana Mae

[Julie Gaum]

Dear Factenock, aka Doreen,
After reading your interesting long thread and your many responses I haven't the foggiest idea why you wrote the thread in the first place! It's not about the motives of "she" or European mores but actually about a very confused Doreen. To put it as kindly as possible the signals,or flares if you will, indicate your need for help well beyond what this, or any Forum can provide. And sadly, it's not the kind of advise you seek.
Julie

[Kelly DeWinter]

Probably the best thing I've taken from this thread after reading all of the posts is that in whatever we do whether it's a situation like the OP or really anything is to be careful of getting caught up in the moment.

[ReineD]

I know that I was weak that day and that and it was something I wanted to tell my wife after the first day, but couldn't at that time. We had dinner Monday night and talked more about it. I love her very much and I was foolish having let this woman gain any kind of control over me.

The lure of an accepting GG is irresistible, or at least it seems to be for many of the members here and so I understand your initial attraction. But, many things can tempt any of us into situations that can negatively impact our lives. People have affairs for all sorts of reasons (not just the CDing), they get into drugs and alcohol to the point of causing issues, they overeat to the point of negatively impacting their health, they spend too much money gambling, and the list is endless. Some people give into these lures and later regret the consequences, while others resist and are able to keep their priorities at the forefront of their minds.

The urge to stray may be strong now but if you resist (you did say you value your wife), it won't be long until this woman is no longer a temptation and you will wonder why you were attracted in the first place.

[faltenrock]

The lure of an accepting GG is irresistible, or at least it seems to be for many of the members here and so I understand your initial attraction. But, many things can tempt any of us into situations that can negatively impact our lives. People have affairs for all sorts of reasons (not just the CDing), they get into drugs and alcohol to the point of causing issues, they overeat to the point of negatively impacting their health, they spend too much money gambling, and the list is endless. Some people give into these lures and later regret the consequences, while others resist and are able to keep their priorities at the forefront of their minds.

The urge to stray may be strong now but if you resist (you did say you value your wife), it won't be long until this woman is no longer a temptation and you will wonder why you were attracted in the first place.

Thank you so much Reine. You're one of the few here who actually try to understand an unusual situation and you've put it into words. I've talked to my wife about more or less every day since. Today when we had coffee at noon, she looked at me and asked 'what', I was looking at her and I felt great and being myself again. I told her that I'm doing very good and that I was glad this is over.
Reine, I will resist, I don't want to see that woman again.
I've thought about her, but now differently. I do feel sorry for her as I do for other people who have deep personality disorders.
She's not a bad person, but in need of help.


Regarding the various responses to my post I must say that I'm disappointed by some members.
Some of the comments here are just not worth answering, such as 'Julie Gaun' - putting me into a file with mentally ill people who need help. Sorry Julie, I know who I am and I'm healthy.

And let me say that to. This forum helped me, it did before with other less important subjects as well. Writing here was more for myself, I get clear what happened by writing down experiences and emotions. As I said in the very beginning of my long post, no one has to read all this. And you seem not even being able to understand anything of what I said and felt - I'm sorry for you.

[Alice B]

Danger, Danger, Danger Will Robonson

[Tracii G]

OK here is the part that makes me think you will go back to her again.
You "feel sorry for her" and "she is not a bad person". That shows me you are leaving an avenue open to return.
You may justify it as "trying to help" but we all know how things got out of hand the first time so what makes you think it won't happen again?
Best thing to do is stay away from her totally.
She is not your responsibility.

[ReineD]

Reine, I will resist, I don't want to see that woman again.

Good for you! Just be sure to find other dancing places to go to for the next little while. Now that you've made the decision, you don't want to place yourself in a situation where you might be tempted. If you're near Amsterdam, there should be hundreds!

... and then, after memories of her have truly run cold, you can go back to your old places again.

[faltenrock]

Good for you! Just be sure to find other dancing places to go to for the next little while. Now that you've made the decision, you don't want to place yourself in a situation where you might be tempted. If you're near Amsterdam, there should be hundreds!

... and then, after memories of her have truly run cold, you can go back to your old places again.

Good advice, thanks. Amsterdam is too far, and also not that great as one would expect, have been there a few times. Just parking alone is hell, about $ 6,- per hour until midnight every day.
I have a place to go, I know the people, they respect me and they like me. Have been there many times.

For the next probably two months, I plan not to go out. My family and I will spent our vacation in a few weeks and I have a lot of work anyway.

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OK here is the part that makes me think you will go back to her again.
You "feel sorry for her" and "she is not a bad person". That shows me you are leaving an avenue open to return.
You may justify it as "trying to help" but we all know how things got out of hand the first time so what makes you think it won't happen again?
Best thing to do is stay away from her totally.
She is not your responsibility.

I thought someone would jump on this statement. But you're right, I want to stay away totally and yes, I also sere it that way, I'm not responsible for her.

[Teresa]

Faltenrock,
I'm not sure how to say this tactfully but at your age you really need to find some self control, not only is your CDing out of control but also your feelings and consideration towards your family .
I can reflect the same situation with my relationships before I married but to behave as you do at your age isn't good . Maybe you're not giving us the whole story about your marriage but if your behaviour continues you may not have a marriage , and by the way it reads you will then become the victim of every waif and stray that flashes her eyes at you.

Talk about living dangerously , your wife isn't on board with your CDing and now you are bordering cheating on her with another relationship.

Maybe you should seek some professional help before disaster strikes, not unless that is your final intention !

[Amelie]

I can't believe you still drive a station wagon, it must be an antique by now.

I think others here responded better than I would. My blonde brain got lost midway through the story, sorry.

[faltenrock]

Faltenrock,
I'm not sure how to say this tactfully but at your age you really need to find some self control, not only is your CDing out of control but also your feelings and consideration towards your family .
I can reflect the same situation with my relationships before I married but to behave as you do at your age isn't good . Maybe you're not giving us the whole story about your marriage but if your behaviour continues you may not have a marriage , and by the way it reads you will then become the victim of every waif and stray that flashes her eyes at you.

Talk about living dangerously , your wife isn't on board with your CDing and now you are bordering cheating on her with another relationship.

Maybe you should seek some professional help before disaster strikes, not unless that is your final intention !

I don't think you've read everything. I feel that your comment is inappropriate as you don't know me at all. You want to judje my behavior and the things I do. At my age and my crossdressing history, I know exactly who I am and the extend of my CD'ing.
So don't tell me or anyone else to 'out of control'.

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I can't believe you still drive a station wagon, it must be an antique by now.

I think others here responded better than I would. My blonde brain got lost midway through the story, sorry.

Yes I do, I actually have two station wagons, a BMW family car, which is 17 years old, and my classic, which is a 29 year old BMW station wagon. It will be a historic value car in 2018.

[Teresa]

Faltenrock,
I'm sorry if I offended you , but you don't need to defend yourself against us we can only comment on the facts you feed us, and this thread is a repeat of previous similar ones .
You may need the defense with you wife , I can't think many wives would understand and accept the situation as you have told it to us , if it's not the whole story then we are commenting blind.

If I may ask one question , if you know yourself so well how come your story is such a mess and you need to run it past us ?

To me it still suggests you have told this story to tell you it's OK , even without the CDing aspect I can't say your actions deserve a pat on the back and telling you it's all OK .

[ReineD]

Teresa, I just want to point out that on May 10th Faltenrock posted an intention to not pursue this woman, and reaffirmed this on the 12th. And on the 13th you suggested that Faltenrock was lacking control. Did you only read the first post?

Not to be trite, but life is indeed a journey. People start out threads with issues and eventually they resolve them. This is the purpose of the forum. There have been countless members here over the years who have placed themselves in exactly the same situation as Faltenrock, having become besotted with a woman (not their wife) who showed some promise of acceptance. When these members have come here to discuss their quandaries (and I applaud them for doing so before acting on their impulses), the least helpful responses are the ones that point the finger right back at the member by attacking their character.

My blonde brain got lost midway through the story, sorry.

Do you realize how inappropriate this comment is? The "dumb blonde" concept may have been the way men thought of women during the 1950s, but thank goodness we're well past that now.

[Teresa]

Reine,
I've had the full force of forum criticism in the past through members not fully understanding the thread .

I may have missed something on Faltenrock's replies which I apologise for but even so she has pushed her relationship to the limit with her wife, much of what she says happened shouldn't have taken place at all .

I'm sure you wouldn't have enjoyed being treated like it . I hope she has realised the implications of what may have happened and learned from it .

At times the forum has given me a good kick up the backside, I don't claim to be any sort of saint and still may make mistakes.

[Angie G]

Shake it off Doreen. Get you head straight you have one great wife why would you want to f*^k that up. You do look good in that dress hun.
Angie

[faltenrock]

Teresa, I just want to point out that on May 10th Faltenrock posted an intention to not pursue this woman, and reaffirmed this on the 12th. And on the 13th you suggested that Faltenrock was lacking control. Did you only read the first post?

Not to be trite, but life is indeed a journey. People start out threads with issues and eventually they resolve them. This is the purpose of the forum. There have been countless members here over the years who have placed themselves in exactly the same situation as Faltenrock, having become besotted with a woman (not their wife) who showed some promise of acceptance. When these members have come here to discuss their quandaries (and I applaud them for doing so before acting on their impulses), the least helpful responses are the ones that point the finger right back at the member by attacking their character.



Do you realize how inappropriate this comment is? The "dumb blonde" concept may have been the way men thought of women during the 1950s, but thank goodness we're well past that now.

Thank you so much Reine,
English is not my mother language, but you put it in words that I perhaps can't do as well.

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Shake it off Doreen. Get you head straight you have one great wife why would you want to f*^k that up. You do look good in that dress hun.
Angie

Thank you Angie. I'm a person who does think and reflect a lot about myself and others. Normally I'm not touched that deep emotionally. Only last year and the year before my oldest and best friend (male, went to school together) had really disappointed me too, that of course was different as it is my best friend.
However, incidents with high emotions take a while to see the horizon again.
I'm pretty clear about what happened and why it happened and can recall that experience if I ever run into a person like that again.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Reine ;

As one who has also posted here a time or two an opinion or view that caused other members point out the wrongness of my opinion it can feel like being piled on, I've found upon reflection that usually the members are right. Ultimately everything we do and say in life is a reflection of our character. There are times I wish I'd known 20 years ago some of the more vocal members who DID point out the flaws in my thinking.

The issue is more that the OP posted a thread in this section and in other sections, then went out of her way to disagree with other members and to call out those who did not agree with her. Her subsequent posts challenged the 'quality' of the replies. Mainly because they did not appear to fit her world view.

The thing that the OP does not seem to understand is that her replies tend to play down the "Emotional Affair" and her actions and that it was only the actions of the other woman that kept it from becoming a "Physical Affair".

Whether it was the intent of the OP or not, this thread has provoked a lot of good conversation. And it reiterates one very good aspect of this community. That is that members of this community will not let another member get away with a soft rebuke when a much stronger one is needed.

[jennifer0918]

I'm confused, but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. Why sleep in your car?why go to a house of a woman you just met?why make her feel bad ?what she did at the club with that other guy is not your business, it sounds like she never criticized you for not telling your wife about her,but your selfish not thinking about her feelings and your wifes feeling. It sounds like you were more worried about your ego,and your pride. That letter you wrote was out of place, why write anything down,keep those toughts in your mind no need to publish, because once it's on paper it becomes fact,people see it as truth. Any who good luck with your life. Love your long posts.
Cheerio

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P.S. Doreen, LEAVE THE OTHER NAMELESS GIRL ALONE! You have a family

[faltenrock]

I'm confused, but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. Why sleep in your car?why go to a house of a woman you just met?why make her feel bad ?what she did at the club with that other guy is not your business, it sounds like she never criticized you for not telling your wife about her,but your selfish not thinking about her feelings and your wifes feeling. It sounds like you were more worried about your ego,and your pride. That letter you wrote was out of place, why write anything down,keep those toughts in your mind no need to publish, because once it's on paper it becomes fact,people see it as truth. Any who good luck with your life. Love your long posts.
Cheerio

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P.S. Doreen, LEAVE THE OTHER NAMELESS GIRL ALONE! You have a family

Thank you too Jennifer, perhaps it makes sense to explain a bit more.
I don't feel I would have to JUSTIFY my actions, but perhaps it makes it more clear, eventually.
This treat is interesting, so here I have some more comments. If you really want to understand, just read what I wrote in my first post here.

Why sleep in my car?
I have a business that requires a lot of travel and over night stays. Since about 9 years, I usually sleep in my car in safe places, why? It safes a lot of money that I would have to spend on hotel/motels - it's actually pretty simple to understand.

Why go home with a woman I just met?
I explained that in my long post. I did not intend to do that at all, I was also no interested to deepen the contact with her at this point, I just wanted to leave. I had a clear opinion of her after that night.
In front of her house, that woman started crying hysterically when I told her I'll go some safe place to stay in my car and that I do not want to stay at her place. However, I made that BIG mistake to go with her, I'm to blame for that.
I've never left a crying woman behind, actually that never happened before in my whole life.

I didn't make her feel bad.

Yes, I felt that it was NOT my business what she did in the second club, I talked to other people and enjoyed the night that way.

"it sounds like she never criticized you for not telling your wife about her,but your selfish not thinking about her feelings and your wifes feeling"
Sorry Jennifer, you're totally wrong here. How could you assume I didn't care about my wife or that I was selfish?
She didn't know that I'm married that night, we didn't really talk that much, she spent more time with the other man.
There was nothing to think about regarding her possible feelings. She told me that she lives with her boyfriend in front of her house and was crying. I tried to be nice to stop that crying by leaving my car to go up to her and her boyfriends flat - and yes, that was a big mistake.

I got the most valuable from the member 'laurababe'. I'm not sure if she is in fact a psychologist and it doesn't matter. But I took the advice and followed the link and read about the 'Cluster B', 'borderline' and related disorders.
That cleared up a lot of things that happened. After reading a lot, I can understand myself a lot better now. Now I know what happened and what the causes were.
Crying in front of me when I wanted to leave the first night was intentional by her and part of her borderline personality disorder.

I don't feel like it's necessary to reply to your last comments.

[Dutchess]

I'm gonna swoop in here since I was "married to the dutch people" for a very long time. Vaporize from this woman anyway you can . They are bold and when they want something there will be no boundaries and will have absolutely no issue showing up at your home , yes just across the border in Germany , and demand you from your wife . I saw this happen three time in the 4 years I lived in The Netherlands ( Holland) 2 driving several hundred miles and we all know what I brought back home in the ,male variety . I have had to struggle with being friends with women ever since .

[Suzanne F]

Allie you are the best !!!! Love and tolerance is our code in a program I am part of for last 15 years. There is a big difference in concern and criticism. I too love the honesty she has shared about her experience. Yes maybe she made some mistakes in judgement but who hasn't?
Suzanne