Ultimatum

[ChristinaK]

My wife just overheard a conversation with a gg friend about Christina. She has given me an ultimatum of her and my daughter or Christina. Complete purge or divorce. I'm very sad as Christina is part of me and the only happiness I have in my life. But, I don't want to lose my family either.

She knew I dress at home alone and suspected that I dress in public, but now has the proof. It's total control and she's forcing me to be "the man she married."

I don't think I can do it, but I don't want to lose my family.

[Rachael Leigh]

Christina I'm so sorry this is a very difficult situation but I for one hate ultimatums, it's not fair to you or really your spouse
Counseling needs to be the first step here and hopefully one who has gender variant experience.
I pray you and your wife can find some common ground

[sometimes_miss]

I'm going to second the suggestion that you find a gender friendly therapist, and hope you can get your wife to go with you. And stop referring to 'Christina' in third person. The first hurdle to address is admitting that it's all YOU. It's a big step, but It's not fooling anyone except yourself. As difficult as it may be to admit that you have female feelings, it's better than using all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to keep it as if it's an entire separate personality, all because of the taboo our society creates that keeps men from doing or displaying anything that might make us seem less manly. Once she sees that you can be both manly and feminine, perhaps she will realize that she's not 'losing the man she married', as so many others have put it. Not losing a husband but gaining a sometimes girlfriend? That will be a difficult thing for HER to adapt to, but it's better than splitting up over all this. Because the urge to crossdress is coming from somewhere, and it's not going to go away. You're going to have to reconcile this one way or another.

[ChristinaK]

I just saw the thread "no more dressing." I hadn't looked before I wrote. Very similar. I am seeing a therapist. My wife says she's just enabling me and is part of the problem and wants me to stop seeing her.

It's so difficult to talk to my wife about this. I wish she could understand just a little, but she is convinced this is all because I'm bored and retired.

[phili]

Refuse the ultimatum. It is a power play, perhaps from desperation, but you have equal power. Say no, we are a couple and we have a lot to live for, not to mention raising our daughter and supporting each other in the twilight years! We need to get the bottom of your fear and willingness to leave, and thought that you somehow own our daughter more than I do, just as much as we need to get to the bottom of why I feel I must crossdress! This is what it means to have and to hold, to cherish and protect, love and honor each other.

[char GG]

I am very sorry things are going this way for you. I am curious about your saying "this is the only happiness I have in my life". I am certainly not an expert on CDing or gender related issues but this seems more of a life statement. There should be more happiness in life than just one thing.

My husband is in a support group and one biggest complaint that I hear from wives is that it's not about the clothes but about the actions - Such as sneaking around, lying, keeping secrets, etc. You say that your wife "has the proof" that you dress in public. So, apparently she didn't know. It's hard to make amends after the fact but it sometimes can be done.

I am just suggesting that if you really want to keep you family together, make sure to let your wife know how you feel about her; that you want to be with her (if that is the case). Maybe she will come around to a compromise so you both will be happy. Best wishes to both of you.

[Micki_Finn]

Christina, I'm sorry for your situation, but she has every right to her feelings, especially if you were going behind her back with your dressing. You can't force her to be comfortable any more than she can force you to stop dressing. I don't think she's being purposely controlling. It sounds like she just ran into a hard limit for her and has drawn the line.

[kimdl93]

I too was puzzled and I guess saddened to see that reference to CDing as being your only happiness in life. If its true, what does that say about the time you spend with your wife and daughter (an adult by now, I presume). But think carefully, that sentence in the moment it was written, may not accurately and fully the value you place on your wife, your daughter and life, relative to CDing.

Once upon a time, a therapist suggested that thoughts and beliefs were rather like the layers of an onion....peel away one and you find another. Eventually, you may reach a tiny core. It could be the "real cause" but its just as likely, that the core is just another bit of the onion.

I can't speak to the place CDing has in your life, nor that of your family. I can tell you what its like to be alone at 64, after a long relationship...one that I am afraid I undervalued, relative my CDing. It sucks. I likely can't get it back, and my culpability is a deep and raw wound, even nearly 2 years afterward.

[Stephanie47]

I've read many of your previous posts and have commented on some. There was a post concerning having your ears pierced. Another you said you shave your body. These actions alone are enough to set off a non-accepting wife. It's an "in your face" action. You've indicated in your post or you indicated your wife said being a bored retiree has something to do with your cross dressing. Too much time on your hands? When I first retired and having a still working wife I admit to being totally consumed with a build up demand to be en femme. It lasted awhile. I realized I was not accomplishing many chores outside our home's four walls.

I always wonder about these threads where a wife has set down an ultimatum. Here, it's indicated there is no happiness in your life. That is not a good sign. I wonder if it is because you are focused solely on an activity which your wife does not appreciated. Your marriage is hardly a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" marriage.

Char makes a good point as far as how a woman/wife sees activities. Sneaking around does not go over well. I do realize many have to sneak around otherwise one cannot engage in cross dressing. If your wife thinks seeing a gender therapist only is enabling you that's going to be difficult to overcome unless your wife attends with you. I am curious as to why you are seeing a therapist. Is it to figure out where you are personally headed on this spectrum or is it to figure out how you balance the issues on the domestic front, i.e., your wife?

I always believe there is room for compromise in these situations. Sometimes laying all the cards on the table does get results. When a wife says it's between cross dressing or her there are consequences for her too if you divorce. There is loss of income. She may lose social status. Ask her if she is really willing to dissolve a marriage on this one issue.

I will say as one retiree to another, get out of the house and find something else to do to consume your time.

[NicoleScott]

I agree with phili that you should refuse the ultimatum. It's her way of transferring her decision (to stay or go) to you. So let her decide by not giving her an answer to her ultimatum (threat).
We're good now, but there was a rough patch long ago when my wife often threatened divorce. I suspected it was just her way of trying to win disagreements, so one time I dropped a phone book in her lap and said "call a lawyer". She quit doing that.
A conversation initiated by an employee went like this:
"If I am to continue working here, I have to have more money".
"I accept your resignation".
"Wait a minute. I didn't mean....I don't want to....."
He didn't quit.
Don't allow others to transfer their decisions to you. Of course, you have your own decisions to make (keep CDing or quit). Not much of choice, is it?

[Rachel05]

Having been through similar but not quite the same, one thing just struck me now, my wife did have the man she married as I was cross dressing way before I met her, dated her and married her, all through that time I dressed, it is very much part of who we are and for me, the way I am wired, but of course that is a very difficult thing to try and explain

I am just me and I love to dress in ladies clothes, always have and always will and in fact if she forces you to stop then actually you won't be the man she married and you may well struggle to leave Christina behind, which in my case brought its own set of problems

I really am sorry that you are having to go through this

[Judy-Somthing]

Wow, sorry about your situation. It's very similar to mine.
I about 18 months ago the Pink-Fog hit me hard and I was looking to get a professional makeover wen I found tis site.
Up until then I hadn't talk to anyone about my CDing in about thirty years. It felt good to tell others here.
This year after my wife found my 4" heels (which she threw out, thank you very much) I told her I had been dressing behind her back, she was pretty unhappy.

At this point the Pink-Fog is low and I haven't dressed or felt like dressing in three months, Purge 1/2 and put the rest in deep storage.
Three months ago when she was at her angriest point she said she doesn't want a devoice.
She wants me to stop dressing and said she knows I'll most likely dress again.

Good luck with your situation.

[Shaedow]

I agree mostly with Char. Your statement that dressing is the "only" happiness in your life says a lot about your feelings for your family. Please explore / evaluate your feelings behind this statement before you evaluate hers. Are you exhibiting your unhappiness (even if it's subconsciously) in your interactions with your wife? I would hazard a guess that she is unhappy as well, perhaps as a reflection of yours. Also, what is your goal in therapy? To validate your dressing so you can use it to try to influence your wife? This is a sad situation all the way around....

[Tracii G]

I'm in the camp of don't even entertain the ultimatum. Tell her no.
You have the right to be happy just as much as she does so stand your ground.
If she gets pissed give her an ultimatum.
I'm just guessing here but you don't assert your self very often do you? She makes all the decisions around the house you just say "yes dear"?
Stand up and say what you have to say at least she will respect you for speaking your mind because its obvious she does not respect you now.

[Fiona123]

You can purge, but you will be miserable, resentful and worse off than you are now. Purging does not last. Try counseling. Tracii may be right though, you need to be true to yourself.

[ChristinaK]

I'm going to therapy to deal with my transgender ism, how to improve my relationship and depression. I think I'm going to ignore what my wife said and see what happens. I'm sure at some point she will throw out all my stuff.

She's a good person and I don't want a divorce. So, I'll have to comply if she does that. Her clothes fit me so I know I'll go back to wearing her stuff. It's been with me my entire life and won't go away.

When I said being Christina is the only happiness I have, I meant besides my family.

Thank you all for your support and advise.

[Alice Torn]

It is tough to hear this. A real big challenge here. I feel for you. Not married, but i know if certain relatives or others who know me, found out, I would be in a world of crap. I agree with Sometimes Miss on this. it is you, not a third person. I hope she will be willing to go to a therapist with you. If not, maybe a separation would be good, not a divorce, so that maybe she will have time to be educated about this thing you do, and maybe compromise later? best wishes, in whatever happens. time can heal.

[Teresa]

Christina,
You don't say how long you've been married and your profile doesn't say your age. I don't mean to pry but it does have some bearing on the answers we can offer. Also are children involved , when you say you don't want to loose your family I assume there are.

To deal with the ultimatum I was going to suggest you call her bluff but as I've said it depends the points I've just made. The reason why I say this is my children are mid to late thirties and they both know about my CDing as do their married partners. I have the full support and respect from them so if my wife threatened the same thing she would have to negotiate with my children as well. In fact when we nearly separated it was their thoughts and influence that kept us together. They would have accepted the alternative but my wife and I knew we were going to hurt them .

OK your wife is upset, so what aspect worries her most, I also assume she is unhappy about getting it second hand from the overheard conversation.
I keep telling my wife she still has the man she married only there was a part she knew nothing about. I have pointed out that I would also like to have the woman I married but that isn't going to happen either, I respect her for deciding she no longer wants intimate contact, that goes back ten years now, and is nothing to do with my CDing, I haven't given any ultimatums but I'm still hurt by it. She know my CDing has substituted her , that's how she wants it and has to live with it.

I've just read your last reply and wonder if it's a wise move to continue to dress under the circumstances using her clothes, that appears to be rubbing salt in the wounds . I do feel you need to find yourself so you can give definite answers to why you can't stop dressing.

I would still say call her bluff, your family will understand, you won't lose them, my daughter is annoyed with my wife over her lack of understanding. I'm not sure about my son he relies on my wife so much he would probably support her rather than me .

[Tracii G]

Your last post sounds so defeatist Christina almost like you are giving in to her.
You have been conditioned to think you don't matter when in fact you DO matter.
Would your family survived all these years if you hadn't provided for them by earning an income?
Helped raise the kids, help keep the home up?.
She is being very stubborn and seems not to actually give two shits about you and what you need as far as support for your TGism.
I say call her bluff and just act like she couldn't have been serious.
This is all my opinion and I have no idea what the other side of the story is and how you have treated her during all of this.
If you have been an ahole and a jerk well maybe she does have a point.
Just calling it as I see it nothing more nothing less.

[ChristinaK]

Teresa, we've been married 13 years and have a 12 yr old daughter. I am 57, as is my wife. You are right about dealing with our daughter. She would be devastated if I had to leave, especially since it's my wife who chooses not to understand or consider my feelings.

Update: she's going to go to my next therapy meeting. She won't like what she hears, that's for sure, but maybe it will open the door a crack.

Her fear is that when I'm out, friends, coworkers or my daughters friends might see me and bring shame and ridicule on the family.

I have found most people to be very supportive. We live in California where people are pretty progressive. My neighbors have seen me. Big deal, nothing has happened as a result. Her best friend knows and my wife doesn't even know that she knows.

Seems kind of trivial to deny an important part of me for fear of her getting embarrassed, but maybe I'm totally wrong too.

[Teresa]

Christina,
Thanks for that, you daughter isn't at the age to offer the same support as mine she still needs yours, you have to be there for her.

My wife refused to attend counseling with me, I was the one with the problem so it was for me to get it fixed , that is hard because you can only move forward with a partner on board otherwise you just hit a brick wall. i also feel my wife didn't want to hear some home truths , I'd explained enough about my CDing for her to realise it wasn't going away and she would have to try and accommodate to some extent .

I have to say this fear of ridicule and embarrassment hasn't really happened for me either , OK people can and will talk behind your back at times without CDing coming into it , so many people know or have seen my pictures I'm beginning to forget , most of the fears are unfounded ones inside our heads .

[char GG]

Her clothes fit me so I know I'll go back to wearing her stuff.

You may want to rethink this activity. At least get your own stuff.

[Tracii G]

Wearing her clothes is a huge no no she will know you wore it trust me and that will piss her off to no end.
Wear your own stuff.
As far as the therapy session be firm and don't give in to your wife take a stand.
Show her you are a gown ass man that just happens to like womens clothes and is TG.

[Joni T]

Why is the first response always "You need counseling"??? The first thing you need to do is to get ALL your femme stuff out of the house--ALL OF IT, then sit down with your wife, try to have a civilized discussion, and see if you can come to a mutual disagreement. If that doesn't work, you have 2 choices, and only 2--family or dressing. Trust me, the dressing CAN be over come and losing the family will be a MAJOR expense, both emotionally and financially.
Good luck, my friend. I've been divorced twice and although the dressing wasn't a part of either, neither was pleasant.
Jon

[Tracii G]

The wife needs to stop using the daughter as a bargaining chip that alone is disgusting.
I hate when a parent tries to keep the other parent away from their kid. Its not the kids fault if the parents don't get along.