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Thread: Show your support for TG's in the Military

  1. #26
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Nice to hear from you again, Ilene. For that alone, I would like to buy a round for SCPO (ret) Beck.

    Folks, I believe Georgette's tale is the kind of story that the Chairman of the Joint Chief's of Staff had in mind yesterday when stated, "There will be no modifications to the current policy..." Unless and until he receives an order, through proper channels (i.e. not Twitter), mission readiness will not be compromised by political grandstanding. Gen. Dunford has earned huge respect from me, publicly making a statement that could very well end his distinguished career. I trust his judgment. Everyone here should.

  2. #27
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    I've never been in the military but I feel that anyone who is willing to put their life on the line for other people deserves respect. Whatever gender someone identifies with has nothing to do with their ability to do their job.

  3. #28
    Aspiring Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    I was in the Army fro 72 through 76. I achieved a rank of E5, and carried a top secret clearance for much of that time. And yes, I do consider myself as being somewhere on the TG/TS spectrum.

    Back then, there were NO protections for LGBTQ folks and being found out would have been the end of my military career. So- I kept my mouth shut and put my gender issues aside so that I could serve my country. It didn't take too long though to find that it was a lousy fit for me, so there was no way I was going to re-enlist. No, it wasn't the gender thing. I just found it very hard to be respectful to people based solely on the number of stripes (or the metal) they were wearing.

    That said - I have mixed feelings about the TS/military combination. I can understand the difficulties of barracks life. I can understand why American taxpayers might not want to pay for military TS surgeries. I can even understand the confusion of "what uniform do I wear?" or "where to I sleep?"

    But seriously folks, with some basic ground rules and limitations, why not? If the person applying is physically able, poses no security risk, and is willing (should the need arise) to fight and possibly die in defense of the country - then what difference does it truly make what gender they claim or what uniform they wear?

    I think it's really less about the TS's fitness to serve and more about the UNfitness of the rest of the military in their unwillingness to handle anyone who is different. Remember, it wasn't that long ago when non-white or non-male also meant non-accepted, or at least kept separate.

    The fight for "and justice for all" must continue, and bigots who attack the weak for personal gain should not allowed to be held unaccountable for their words/actions.

  4. #29
    Platinum Member Angie G's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about it. I don't think it would harm the military for them to serve but things like SRS should not be part of the package. And I thank every one here for there service.
    Angie

  5. #30
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    So you can "...understand why American taxpayers might not want to pay for 'military TS surgeries'..."
    Really? Given that the possible expense of treating this condition, which affects a tiny fraction of active duty and retired military, is infinitesimally small, and moreover, given that it is a treatable medical condition, just like appendicitis or... bone spurs, there is absolutely no reasonable rationale for denying it. Oh, lots of ignorant, bigoted reasons, but nothing that even approaches reasonable when considered dispassionately and with an effective understanding of the issues.

  6. #31
    Aspiring Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    Aunt Kelly,

    Yes, I said "I can understand why..." I didn't say that I agree. I understand that for the most part, the general public is ignorant of the realities of the TG/TS situation and easily led by the loud voices of intolerance and hatred. And while our voices are finally beginning to be heard, it's still a small voice trying to be heard over the shouting of so many others.

    Just yesterday, I had someone comment, "they'll all be flocking to the military to get the surgery if we don't stop them". And this was from someone I thought should know better!

    I understand the reality of the situation - and the reality of public sentiment.

    Again, I never said that I agree.

    IF the option had been available when I was in the service , I would have JUMPED on the chance. Who knows? I might have even served longer.

  7. #32
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    Well I have to say after spending 10 years in the Marines serving with the infantry the idea that this would not be a problem within a unit is total fantasy.
    Now I'm not saying it would be a problem in any number of military jobs, because obviously it wouldn't be.
    So do we make different rules for different positions?
    The military as a whole and the Marines especially are not set up to be a kinder gentler world.
    I remember when I enlisted being told....you will not have all the rights you do as a civilian.
    Granted I served 74 to 84. But I don't think that part changed.

  8. #33
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  9. #34
    Senior Member Jenn A116's Avatar
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    I was in the Army 1970-72. Did a tour in 'Nam, got the usual honors. Held multiple MOS's 11B, 67A1F, 71L. left as an E5. Wasn't interested in saving all my stuff from that era but discovered a few years ago that my Mom had stashed them away. So, I've got several of the medals, but haven't displayed them anywhere.
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  10. #35
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    Regular army, 72-74....all stateside.

    To the OP, of course I support the thousands of TG who serve willingly and courageously (in a number of ways) whether they are out or in the closet. What's truly sad is that one person with an illadvised Twitter habit and a compulsion to demand attention would choose to use such honorable people as a political foil. Yet another illustration of how not to behave in private and public.

  11. #36
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Yesterday it was reported that the military spends more money on paper than the estimated expense of providing medical services to the trans folks. This morning it was reported that the total estimated cost is, on the average 0.07% of the total budget. So where is the very high cost stated in the tweets? It would be more productive to cut paper purchases by 30% and put that into combat readiness. Facts do tend to put things in perspective except for those who do not wish to consider facts and go on opinions that may be based on cultural stereotypes and have no relation to the realities of the situation. Three cheers for Chairman of theh Joint Chiefs. Lets trust them and support them.

  12. #37
    Gold Member Alice B's Avatar
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    I fully support transgender in the military. There are many jobs in the service besides direct combat and some can be fine in a combat role. I am more concerned that there could be negative fallout and a step backwards in acceptance of the transgender community because of what Trump has tweeted.

  13. #38
    Aspiring Member Tahoegurl's Avatar
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    Hi all...I support the military and transgender rights. But if you have not been in the military in the last 2 years then you do not have a realistic view of the current environment. I am still in the military and not out of the closet. The past policy that was released was a joke. It was purely political. There was no direction or standards so it could not be followed. Last month the DoD asked for 6 more months to try and figure it out. There is a much bigger issue here beyond just saying let them serve. Where are you on selected service...still just males only...how many are calling their congressman on that...
    Life is too short to be boring...Alexandra

  14. #39
    Member CD Tammy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy Irving View Post
    I can see both sides of this issue and will take none. I anticipate quite a bit of bashing so I will post something I recently read (I did not write it so don't attribute any quotes to me) that might bring a little balance...
    Tracy, like you I see both sides of this issue. As a retired US Army officer, I can imagine what issues this presents to a unit commander. Here in the states it is one thing but what happens on a deployment? How does a unit commander keep a transgendered service member protected in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Qatar, or other place where this is a crime? A quick solution is to limit transgender service to stateside and friendly nations but then the unit commander is faced with a non-deployable soldier which will impact readiness.

    Can you imagine what would happen if a transgender was captured on the battlefield? I cannot think of a worse nightmare. Look what happened to MAJ Rhonda Cornu in ‘93 and what happened to SPC Melissa Rathbun-Nealy in ‘91.

    Now on the other side of this. When I first went to Desert Shield, the Saudis treated our female soldiers as if they were lepers. This changed over the years. I watched a Saudi officer actual break from a group of disgusted men to shake the hand of a female specialist who, after an IED strike, assumed command of the patrol, and got everyone back to FOB. We were pinning a bronze star on her at a joint ceremony. Attitudes change. Women now serve in combat arms roles.

  15. #40
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  16. #41
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  17. #42
    Senior Member 5150 Girl's Avatar
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    I have not served, but what irritates me as a trans person is how the haters want to trot out Klinger as the poster child for trans in the military. Klinger was not trans, he was just running a scam. And running the scam openly I might add...

  18. #43
    Oh to be an English Rose Jane G's Avatar
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    No idea who klingers is/was. Any how, great thread, alas when I left the Royal Navy, they had not even got around to excepting women, let alone trans. I still work in the defence industry and so much has changed, but alas I still have the old prejudiced ingrained in me, so will remain hidden away & happy with it.

  19. #44
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelmichelle View Post
    Well I have to say after spending 10 years in the Marines serving with the infantry the idea that this would not be a problem within a unit is total fantasy.
    Now I'm not saying it would be a problem in any number of military jobs, because obviously it wouldn't be.
    Well, I am afraid you don't get the new military and especially the Marine Corps.
    In 2013 Leon Panetta removed the military's ban on women serving in combat, overturning the 1994 rule. Panetta's decision gave the military services until January 2016 to seek special exceptions if they believed any positions must remain closed to women. The services had until May 2013 to draw up a plan for opening all units to women and until the end of 2015 to actually implement it.[24][25] In 2015 Joseph Dunford, the commandant of the Marine Corps, recommended that women be excluded from competing for certain front-line combat jobs.[26] That year a U.S. official confirmed that the Marine Corps had requested to keep some combat jobs open only to men.[27] However, in December 2015, Defense Secretary Ash Carter stated that starting in 2016 all combat jobs would open to women.[28] In March 2016, Ash Carter approved final plans from military service branches and the U.S. Special Operations Command to open all combat jobs to women, and authorized the military to begin integrating female combat soldiers "right away."
    But let me ask you since you were in the infantry and I suspect you were in combat, how often did you think about the person next to as far as their sexual preference or gender? If you did, I have to guess you weren't at risk of getting killed. You know that at this time there are many cis women training for Special Forces who have qualified above cis men for spots. You do know that there are many Transwomen who were (and probably are) in units like the Seals, Rangers, Special Operations Squadrons and probably your own beloved Raiders.

    To paraphrase my DI "If you got time to think about getting laid, you ain't busy enough"
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  20. #45
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Nailed it, Lorileah. When the work is actually getting done, nothing so trivial as gender matters in the least. If you've been there, you know.

    I've already mentioned the first female professional firefighter in my department. In truth, it took some time for some of my peers to admit that, while she was not the strongest of us, she was far from the weakest, but it was her willingness to do anything that needed to be done for the mission that made her our sister.

    In the Army, I served with a lot of women in my unit (medical). They were among the strongest women I have ever known, far stronger than most of the men I have ever known. Again, gender never mattered when lives were on the line, (Yes, a regular occurrence for us) and anyone who thought that true leadership required a penis was soon disabused of that notion.

    For a couple of reasons, I remember the oath I took upon entry into the U.S. Army. It's the same one every service member takes (minor differences for enlisted and officers). Every single service member, regardless of gender, takes the same oath. Anyone... Anyone who questions the fitness of a man or woman willing to promise "to protect and defend The Constitution of The United States" has an incomplete understanding of that Constitution. It is not surprising then, that anyone who suggests that the transgendered are somehow unfit is similarly ignorant of the group dynamics involved.

    I will also add that we have heard all these arguments about, morality, unit cohesiveness, morale, and "disruption" before; the exact same arguments. The only difference is the group that was judged to be too disruptive at that time were the African American service members, and it was Executive Order 9981 that scandalized so many Americans who were seeing their worldview challenged like never before in 1948. Fearful people will always find something to hate. Politicians will always exploit that. Resist.
    Last edited by Lorileah; 07-30-2017 at 02:17 PM. Reason: mellowed it out a bit.

  21. #46
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    I will always have had and will have unwavering support for all American and allied military members past, present and future.
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  22. #47
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    This is where I am torn. While I salute anyone willing to step up and serve the country. I am not sure I would have had the same fire and anger in the gut that it took to be TACP had I been in transition or even accepted as a cross dresser. My only question is does it affect combat readiness and lethal effectiveness of the unit. If the leadership of the military says no than so be it. I know I might anger some with my opinion, I am sorry if I have. The one thing about the military is it operates on a different standard than any civilian company, and under a different set of laws. Like I said I am torn on this.

  23. #48
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Thanks to all who served in a civilian capacity as well. Docrobbysherry, you would certainly do the USO proud.

    ... and to those who are torn as to wether someone who is TG would degrade the effectiveness of a unit because of special accommodations. The same thing was said of:
    . Women in the Service
    . Women in combat roles
    . Gays and Lesbians
    and recently
    . disabled servicemen ( evaluated by a special board)

    Bottom line is, if you can meet the requirements of the military you should be allowed to serve. The currently serving TG in the military have not asked for special accommodations or special treatment, they are asking to be allowed to serve.
    Last edited by Kelly DeWinter; 07-29-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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  24. #49
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    I agree that this is an anti-{edit: political} smack, and at the same time, isn't this fundamental to who many of us...if not most...see ourselves, and isn't the latest tweetstorm, this time directed at TGs in the military, fair game for a good smack?

    I don't pick on the weak. I served when called, as did many of us. I don't apologize for being appalled by what has transpired.

    To the issue of being torn. We in America like to think we are exceptional...I suppose as in better than everyone else. And yet it seems, what we really mean is we should be allow the exception. There's abundant evidence from throughout the world that integrating gay and TG persons into the military is no big deal. And but for some tweets with no clear purpose beyond appealing to bigotry, our miliary has been on a path to catch up with the rest of the world.

    Remember our miliary was once fully integrated. Then, sometime around the Jim Crow era, it was segregated, and stayed that way till the early 50's. I won't attempt to recount the full story, but the bottom line is that, from Jackie Robinson on, serving in the military, serving the country has earned minorities the right of inclusion in society. One man's twitter feed should not be allowed to diminish that tradition.
    Last edited by Lorileah; 07-30-2017 at 02:21 PM.

  25. #50
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    My son is currently serving. He has been to Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea and Qatar. My daughter in-law, his wife, also served she was in Afghanistan twice. At 5ft. 5 in. and 120 lbs. her weapon was the 50 cal. not a light weight weapon.
    Now what I fail to understand is how, if they can serve and do so with honor in wartime situations, suddenly a transgender person is unqualified to serve simply because they are transgender.
    It is highly offensive to say that a person is not fit to serve, not due to lack of ability, but only because they are transgender.

    I can say honestly that as a mother I don’t care if the person watching my son's back is transgender or anything else so long as he/she is a good soldier, a good shot, and preforms his/her duty with diligence, and care for his/her fellow soldier. I can also say for a fact that both my son and daughter in-law feel the same way.

    For those who have served I can only say you have my respect and gratitude and thanks for your service.

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