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Thread: Are guilt and shame always bad?

  1. #1
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    Are guilt and shame always bad?

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...good-shame-bad



    The link above relates to emotions that are quite familiar experience for many of us. I've often been counseled to let go of the feelings of guilt or shame that I've come to associate with crossdressing. I've even been advised that guilt can be good, and shame "bad".

    Its easy to get lost in a tangential debate about definitions, for the purpose of this thread, I see guilt and shame as synonymous, at least when associated with acknowledged responsibility for behaviors and choices. But it seems from this article that one needs to differentiate between feeling guilty for ones behavior and feeling ashamed for being ..."fill in the blank". The former is a emotional response to acknowledging one's responsibility, the latter an ill defined blanket condemnation of self.

    My question is whether such emotions can have some positive value in helping some people resist or overtime quell the desire to cross dress?

    At least in the short to medium term, I suspect guilt can be an effective deterrent, and maybe it loses its potency over time. I'm also a bit concerned about the emotional and perhaps even physical consequences of carrying around a load of guilt and shame.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by kimdl93; 08-04-2017 at 10:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tracy Irving's Avatar
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    I have never felt guilty about my dressing and have not experienced shame from it either. I hope I am just different and there isn't something wrong with me.

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    I think it really depends on how you deal with those feelings. These feelings are normal, but if either causes you to be self-destructive then it is bad.

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    Never felt shame or guilt for dressing in womens clothes.
    I have felt guilt and shame for being very overweight at times.

  5. #5
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    I remember Dr. Joyce Brothers saying that shame is good. Maybe that's so, but forgiving yourself is also good as it unloads guilt and shame.
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

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    Mannequiniste ! Stacy Darling's Avatar
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    As a Psychiatric subject I would throw just about all of the text out of the window!
    STOP, Well I just dance the way I feel
    Stop breathing imagine none of this is real

    Well I just dance the way I feel
    Well I just dance the way I feel
    Well I just dance the way I feel
    "Ou Est Le Swimming Pool"

  7. #7
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    Guilt and shame have been a deterrent for years to crossdressers. That's why we have things like pride festivals. What the movement in general is trying to accomplish is to allow people to love without guilt or shame about who they are.

    So yes, shame and guild can discourage crossdesssing, but saying they have "positive value" is like saying anorexia has a positive value in weight loss.

  8. #8
    Gold Member Alice B's Avatar
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    No guilt or shame from me also. Would not have proceeded with dressing if those feelings were present.

  9. #9
    Aspiring Member Fiona123's Avatar
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    I have guilt, shame and depression. Guilt and shame don't inhibit my desire to dress. I don't want to stop dressing.

    The depression does slow things down. I'm starting with a new therapist, we'll see how that goes.

  10. #10
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    Kim, I have suffered both guilt and shame all my life, from my older brothers, religion, and society. It was just because of being alive, bedwetting until i was about 20, picked on in school, bullied a lot, bosses, teachers, etc. I have been to VA therapists, 12 step groups, church, dumped on strangers about my ills. I do have guilt and shame yet, about dressing as a woman, too. It has kept me from going out in public most of the time, and kept me 99% in the closet. My male self has also suffered tons of G and S. I read some of John Bradshaw's books, and watched his videos on You tube, . "Healing the Shame that Binds You" is one of his books. i also have used Roy Masters' meditation, "Be Still And Know". Being still, and knowing I am an imperfect human, that is capable of doing better, but accepts i have weaknesses, helps. I see my dressing as art, too, and creativity. But to be very honest, some of it is repressed sexual lust, for the female look, and form, which is sorely missing in this very old bachelor's life, too. I never had any real chance for a steady girfriend, or wife, because of a very sick upbringing, that kept me away from girls, and later, women. I seeit as a coping mechanism, for lack of closeness with other human beings, too, and lack of love. I do strive to be a decent man, and help others a lot, and care about others. As Alice , i feel complete in a way, but after some time dressed, i do acceept that i must go back to my male mode. Actually, it is me, and only me, whether all dolled up, or in guy mode. i am the same person. The guilt and shame come and go, and are not as severe as years ago. i would fast, not drink nor eat for a day, after dressing, or solo sex! i accept now, that this is just one compartment of me.

  11. #11
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    They may have that effect, but at a cost where one experiences generally low self esteem, depression, anxiety and perhaps other negative emotions and thoughts.

    I don't look at the two synonymously. For one, guilt is more current whereas shame is more of a past tense. Also, shame is a result of actions which have caused harm and is more external in nature. To be shamed by others.... Whereas guilt can only truly be felt internally, regardless of others attempts to make you feel that way. If someone is successful in making another feel guilt, it is either because the person feeling guilty has a true reason to feel that way or is not a very strong minded or willed individual and is susceptible to others dictating how they think and feel. Granted though there is not a ton of difference between shame and guilt. I just don't look at them as one in the same. Similarly I view jealousy and envy as not quite the same but that is for another convo.

    For those of us whose gender is not so clearly defined, or a combo of both, or the opposite of birth gender, complete denial and suppression is all but always a horrible thing. I see it as magma under a volcano. It tends to build up pressure until it breaks through. In the case of something like a mt st helens, or Pompeii or other historic eruptions, that is what happens when it is not allowed a place to vent or flow. Eventually it blows through and causes far more destruction then if it were allowed to vent and flow. I think the better approach is to figure out how best to allow it to vent and flow.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  12. #12
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    Kim,
    They are totally destructive feelings to most CDers, they lead to suppression and depression and possibly worse.

    Why do so many of us end up with counselling ? To shake off those feelings and come to terms with our true feelings .

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    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    True Guilt and True Shame is constructive as in I stole a car and feel guilty and shameful for what i did to someone else. (it is my fault)

    False Guilt and False Shame is destructive as in My brother stole a car and I feel guilty and shameful for how his actions reflect on me. (it's someone elses fault)
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    Silver Member Bobbi46's Avatar
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    Guilt and shame should never be a part of our lives. Guilt? only if dressing is being totally hidden form a loved one. As for shame nobody should feel shameful because they are a dresser. There is nothing shameful attached to what we are all doing.
    I have no guilt or shame whatsoever, if more people were more open about themselves in general there would be no need to feel guilty or shameful.

  15. #15
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    For some reason this thread is making me want to put on a costume from the GoT nun and follow random people around shouting "Shame!" Yes, I'm weird

  16. #16
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    Honestly, I'm impressed by the number of you who enjoy a life free of shame or guilt over CDing. That's something I have never experienced.

    I'm inclined to accept the idea that one should differentiate a feeling of guilt (accepting responsibility for ones actions) from a feeling of shame, (a loss of worth due to real or imagined faults?) I think Alice has suffered more direct and pervasive guilt, shame and genuine injury than most of us from what surely are abuses inflicted by family etc....and has come to terms with it.
    In contrast, I haven't really ever been bullied, I've managed to have sustained relationships, children, and something of a working life...and carried the feelings of guilt and shame as an extra load. My dad once described me as being "hard", as compared to another brother that he considered to be "soft"... I took that as a compliment. But it seems that my life has fractured under the stress twice as a result of my nature and the burden of shame.

    As I try to rebuild from the last major structural failure, I'm wondering if I can use the guilt constructively, without at the same time rekindling feelings of self doubt/loathing.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter View Post
    True Guilt and True Shame is constructive as in I stole a car and feel guilty and shameful for what i did to someone else. (it is my fault)

    False Guilt and False Shame is destructive as in My brother stole a car and I feel guilty and shameful for how his actions reflect on me. (it's someone elses fault)
    This exactly.
    Pretty much what is wrong with the world today nobody will admit they could be wrong and its always someone elses fault.
    A friend of mine lost his job for fighting with an employee and I asked him what happened and he said the guy made him mad so he hit him.
    I said you shouldn't have hit him and he said well its his fault because he made me mad.
    Told the friend to grow up and take responsibility for his actions and go find a job.
    He hasn't spoke to me since which has been kinda nice.LOL
    Kim maybe you associate guilt with pleasure and have been trained to not be a pleasurable person.
    Or pleasure is not something you think you can have.
    If you enjoy something its inherently wrong and you feel guilty for having experienced it.
    Last edited by Tracii G; 08-04-2017 at 04:31 PM.

  18. #18
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    oh, Tracii, I'll concede that I'm far from the most enjoyable person to be around 24/7. And I'll accept the possibility that I have managed associate (some) pleasure with guilt or shame. But in this case, its not the cross dressing itself that I blame for the guilt....but rather the harm I have inflicted that I feel guilty about.
    Last edited by kimdl93; 08-04-2017 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Unnecessary quote

  19. #19
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    My $.02! Learn from your guilt and shame and move on with your life! Do not wallow in your guilt and shame! Hugs Lana Mae
    Life is worth living!
    "Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix

  20. #20
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    2 cents are always appreciated! Wallowing is probably a bad thing...being stuck in a situation is certainly bad if you don't particularly like the situation. Maybe the better question is should one use guilt as a motivator for behavioral change?

  21. #21
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    As Lana Mae said, learn from it. I felt guilt and shame until I understood my feelings, embraced them and made them my own. That is a win-win situation and makes you a stronger person overall.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  22. #22
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    Not to be argumentative...just a question. Does "learning from it" only refer to learning to accept one's "feelings" (i.e. Need/desire/inclination to cross dress) or using the guilt as a part of learning to avoid behaviors that cause harm in one's life and the lives of those around us?

  23. #23
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Learning usually comes from Pain avoidance

    In life, Change will only occur when the pain of Not Changing is greater then the pain of Changing

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    Learning usually comes from Pain avoidance

    In life, Change will only occur when the pain of Not Changing is greater then the pain of Changing
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  24. #24
    Gold Member Dana44's Avatar
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    Reading this thread. I never felt guilty on dressing and never felt shame. But when I accepted myself it opened a new path for me. That is what I call liberation. For one why have shame and why guilty. Either dress or not dress and We need to but why feel guilty over it. Why carry all that baggage. It can only hurt you in the long run.
    Part Time Girl

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    "The bite of guilt is like the bite of a dog into a stone- it is stupidity."

    - Nietzsche

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