How young is too young?

[SaraLin]

I'll throw my two cents' worth here...

Based SOLELY on personal experience, I'd say that gender identity starts very early in life. As far back as I can remember, I knew that I was supposed to have been born a girl. Back then, T* was pretty much unheard of, and I bought into the idea that I was somehow broken (or worse). The conflict between who I am inside and who I'm *supposed* to be has always been my own private hell.

I can only hope that some day soon, people learn to accept that some kids are truly T* and that this doesn't make them 'bad' or 'wrong'.

If a child wants to do more than to play dress up once in a while, then good parents should take steps to be sure to do what's best for their youngster's mental/emotional/physical well being. NOT what others and their agendas think is best - but what really IS.

I truly wish I'd had that option when I was young. I would have leaped at it!!

[mykell]

They don't have findings, they have opinions. Their opinions do not use current science. Their use of terminology is flawed and imprecise.

A quick summary of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ..._Pediatricians

they (American College of Pediatrics) have an agenda,
if you read any of the info shared anything that sounded remotely professional was obliterated with theyre closing statement "The bottom line is this:" .....

..........For this reason, the College maintains it is abusive to promote this ideology, first and foremost for the well-being of the gender dysphoric children themselves, and secondly, for all of their non-gender-discordant peers, many of whom will subsequently question their own gender identity, and face violations of their right to bodily privacy and safety.

its a produced piece for politicos to use to support the potty bills we keep seeing coming up.....

no one is put on blockers until they reach puberty....so when you read some of the articles about parents who let theyre little boys wear dresses, or disney wont let them get princess makeovers, little girls wanting short haircuts or whatever they have time to vet all this out by parents and most importantly licensed practicing professionals before any life altering procedure begins.

[Danitgirl1]

Aaargh
I responded to an article based on these findings exactluy one year ago.
I was angry then, I am still angry now...
It is a long article so I am not going to reproduce it here, but here is a link if you are interested.
https://daniellaargento.com/2016/08/...ered-response/
Bottom line where do cisgender researchers with ZERO idea of what it means to be trans get off telling trans people what they are thinking, feeling etc.
We (almost) all KNOW we are trans from an early age.
It is only later that we have the courage and self awareness to admit that we are trans to ourselves, let alone others
These people can get right off the bus and go get real jobs where they can do less harm as far as I am concerned.
Any professional (teacher, medical whatever) knows the first rule is DO NO HARM. These people have fallen at the first hurdle.

[Karen's Secret]

Nothing is black and white when it involves children and their development. I have a nephew who at 17 announced that he was mtf transexual and wanted to transition. My nephew however has had obvious issues all the way back to the pre teens in which he would not have meaningful communication with people, would sit and play video games for hours on end, would make statements out of context with the moment, and sometimes would appear to respond to some inner dialogue he was having with himself. My sister in law refused to have him tested for autism or anything else because she did not want him "labelled." After a couple of suicide attempts/threats over the last couple of years he has been diagnosed with anti social personality disorder and possibly schizo effective disorder. Since turning 18 he has rejected any diagnosis other than being trans and has stopped all treatment for his mental disorders. He also has a doctor in San Francisco who has started him on hormones and treating him simply as a person who needs to transition. Other than wearing a skirt or leggings and growing his hair long, he displays no feminine behaviors whatsoever and displays no interest in traditionally feminine pursuits or interests.

I think my nephew is a good example of someone with some serious mental health issues who is manifesting a gender issue as a symptom of the underlying mental illness. Unfortunately I think our desire to embrace all gender issues and over simplifying them is unintentionally creating more harm in some cases than actually helping. Diagnosing or treating pre adolescents for gender disorders should be taken very seriously and I would not dismiss the idea that perhaps post adolescence might be a better time to address those issues alongside any other cooccurring issues.

[penny lace]

This is supposedly scientific article is one of the most unscientific papers I have seen. It blatantly takes statistics out of context for specific areas and uses them in a wider population context.
I find myself despairing in this day and age of how this kind of ‘journalism’ is used to propagate intolerance and hatred on a number of fronts, gender, race, religion etc!

Penny

[Micki_Finn]

The American College of Pediatricians is a conservative advocacy group, not a legitamate science based medical organization.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

There are a lot of parents these days that have no business being parents.

Since when wasn't that true Tracii? Nevertheless humanity struggles imperfectly on.


It's hard for me to relate to a prepubescent with GD as my own CDing tendencies didn't emerge till I was mid-teens. But there are plenty of members here who have had those urges since they were single digits, and plenty more who experienced appalling disrespect and judgement from narrow minded parents.

Parents need to let the child lead in certain issues, and in certain other issues - learning to cross the road safely for example - they need to be clear and strong. The problem is that one person's notion of when it's appropriate to take a firm lead can be very different to another's. We think we know best; they think they know best.

Which brings me back to Tracii's remark. Hopefully we as a species are moving forward...and hopefully not towards a cliff.

[mechamoose]

"The American College of Pediatricians"

I don't much really care. I have seen for myself, with my own eyes, looking into another proto-adult's eyes.. the same look I see in the refugees I work with. ( LGBT Asylum )That same trapped look. That same confused look. A lack of understanding of why what they are doing is wrong or different. I cannot see that and look away.

TACoP is just a name plate on a wall and letterhead.

For my personal experiences, aside from my own issues, involve people fleeing for their LIVES. *Family* members are looking to have them dead. Can you even imagine that? Sure, your parents might not like your choices, but enough to hire hit men? TACoP has no business talking in this space.

If some young XX/XY comes to you and wants an adult to help them understand what is happening with them, it is your *duty* to help them feel like they are not a freak. I don't care HOW young they are .

Change it. Make it different. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

That 'kid' is an adult waiting to happen. You, luckily, get to give them a nudge.

}X>

- MM

[sometimes_miss]

"The American College of Pediatricians"
Basically, they can legally call themselves anything they want, until they infringe upon someone else's trademark or whatever. Doesn't make it so. We see this time and again in the political arena, where PAC's and groups give themselves titles that are disguised to hide their true intent. I can call myself the Queen of the United States of America, doesn't make me one, just because no one else has used the title. I am curious, though, to see exactly who are the members of this nasty organization.

[Vickie_CDTV]

See how liberalism tags everything as a hate group if they don't agree with it.
Personally I think parents need to let their kids grow up and make their own choices not assume their child is trans just because they think they show signs.
There are a lot of parents these days that have no business being parents.

That is an understatement!

There is no shortage of disturbed people out there who have children and it is not inconceivable some might use any sign of gender nonconformity as a an excuse to label their child "trans"... and using their trans child for attention and to virtue signal. There are some videos on YouTube from Sweden where they are practically encouraging children to be trans, it is really kind of disturbing. Like Munchhausen by Proxy. It is one thing to love your child who is transsexual, but it is another to encourage a child to be a transsexual.

[raeleen]

I have struggled with my gender identity my entire life, and it's primarily because I was raised with very clear notions of what is masculine and what is feminine. That men had certain roles and women had other ones. These socially constructed roles are baked into how our society functions. They are at the core of how much of the world functions and ultimately I believe they're flawed. As we push against these roles and definitions, society pushes back harder because questioning things at the core can lead to the loss of power and privilege. And ironically, calling into question things about identity for everyone in society. I'm in a better place now, and have started to embrace this gift that I have. A gift that created a long and hard road for me to where I am now, but still, something that has made me stronger.

I also have a trans daughter, and I can tell you that she has never questioned her gender identity since she came out. She has been consistent and insistent from a very early age. We've been to doctors who've confirmed our thoughts, but to be honest, we never needed a doctor to know that this is who she is. And we have supported her social transition to being a girl because a parent who loves there child wants to see them able to live as their true and authentic self. no medical intervention has happened, because there is no need for one since she's pre-pubescent. When that time comes, we will have additional conversations with her and a doctor and we will support her as she decides what the next steps are for her. Additionally, I've often wondered if there is a biological component to this. But does it really matter?

And you know what, if she decides then that she is not trans in the future, that's fine. i'm about 99.9% sure that won't be the case, but even if it is, it's not a big deal because it's her life. it's an inconvenience for some who have to shift pronouns or names, but really, that's all it is. We as adults seem to have lots of trouble dealing with 'inconvenient' things and it's kind of silly. we inconvenience ourselves in so many ways everyday with our foibles and needs, but to be put off when someone we love or care about asks for love and affirmation based on who they are? That's BS.

So, take that for what you will. I don't think there is a too young. I don't believe that we should be debating it or placing our judgement on others. The arguments made love to use 'this one case' or 'someone they know', but there are always exceptions. Let's not cloud what's at the core here, and what pushes so many of us to difficulty as adults. The lack of support and affirmation and the shame that we have carried for so long before finally finding acceptance. The rigid structures around gender and binaries that say boys are this and girls are that. Buck the trend a bit and let people be who they are.

[rian]

that is really a discriminating attitude indeed ,,we should try to sign in for this and attack this behavior as much as we can ,,,try all of us to sign in and attribute to this community in a very positive attitude ,,,civilized and show that all these community that they are wrong and no harm will happen if the accept us as one .. ,

[mechamoose]

There is no course structure, no guide book, nor Cliff Note on how to be a parent. Heck, I double-dog dare any of you to tell me that your parents had a cognitive discussion with you about sex, much less gender.

You can't teach your children something that you don't know yourself. You can only teach them what you know.

My 16 year old kid talks to me about the people he sees at school. He is truly confused and troubled by the complete absence of what we here consider 'parenting'. My son's best friend is gay, and he is totally cool with that. It is a non-issue, they just like playing games together, 'bumpless' in IT terms. I could not wish for anything more.

I really feel bad for the home life of some of these kids.

- MM

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

"if the accept us as one .. ," (I'm assuming a Y on the end of 'the')

We need this. We are legion, they just don't know it. Why? because we hide.

If we, you and I, stopped being so afraid? Who knows? We might even be considered 'normal'. Until then we will be fugitives. If I could click my heels together and make a wish, it would be for acceptance. I'm saying that as an adult, I have a hard time even putting myself in that frame of reference as a child. I'd be scared to death to even BREATHE wrong.

This whole discussion stinks. Not because it is wrong, but because we even need to have it.

- MM

[Pat]

There is no shortage of disturbed people out there who have children and it is not inconceivable some might use any sign of gender nonconformity as a an excuse to label their child "trans"... and using their trans child for attention and to virtue signal.

So what? Are you advocating we not support transgender kids to come out as early as possible and attain some normalcy in their lives because there are some people who think it would be cool to have a transgender kid? I know tons of stage-parents who try to push their (disinterested) kids into the performing arts. I know parents who push their (disinterested) kids into sports. It's a form of abuse but I wouldn't stop talented kids from learning to perform or to throw a curve ball just because those parents who want to live their kids' lives for them exist. The kids under discussion -- the ones who are candidates for puberty blockers -- are treated under medical supervision. Someone will probably find a way to game the system, but are you suggesting we shut everything down and have yet another generation of transgender people who have to live for decades in hiding before they can find their way out?

[Vickie_CDTV]

So what? Are you advocating we not support transgender kids to come out as early as possible and attain some normalcy in their lives because there are some people who think it would be cool to have a transgender kid? I know tons of stage-parents who try to push their (disinterested) kids into the performing arts. I know parents who push their (disinterested) kids into sports. It's a form of abuse but I wouldn't stop talented kids from learning to perform or to throw a curve ball just because those parents who want to live their kids' lives for them exist. The kids under discussion -- the ones who are candidates for puberty blockers -- are treated under medical supervision. Someone will probably find a way to game the system, but are you suggesting we shut everything down and have yet another generation of transgender people who have to live for decades in hiding before they can find their way out?

I am not in any way saying that we shouldn't support trans kids. I am just urging caution, and acknowledge that in some rare cases there could be a nutjob parent pushing a gender noncoforming kid into being a full blown transsexual so they can virtue signal and whatnot. Like you said, there are a lot of dysfunctional parents out there who try to live vicariously through their children, and that is just as wrong. This is a lot bigger than pressuring a kid into sports though, labeling a child with a disorder at a very young age can be a risky thing, much how they throw around ADD and other disorders at any small child who is unruly.

[Ashleyrobyn831]

While I hesitate to pass judgment on anyone else's handling of their kids and their issues, I do believe that the trend toward cultural acceptance of the transgendered can be a double edged sword in that it has the unintended effect of causing some parents to go overboard with their kids issues for fear of being seen as unsupportive or intolerant. From my own experience, my middle daughter at around age 14 came to us and said she had come to the conclusion that she was a boy. Since I had been living as a woman from the time she was an infant, it was natural to wonder whether she was identifying as tg when in reality just desired a closer relationship or greater approval from me and mistakenly believed that being tg would somehow tie is more tightly. So we simply expressed to her that we loved her completely regardless, that she had our support no matter what, and then let her go about finding her way. We called her by her chosen name, let her choose boyish clothes when we went shopping, and generally tried to treat the situation as if she genuinely was tg until such time as she either changed her mind or the evidence to the contrary was too much to ignore. Like any teenager there were times where social pressures and peer responses influenced her behaviors, but the older and more confident she got the less those things factored in, and now five years later we have begun to feel that in this case it's genuine, and have agreed that upon the 18th birthday we will officially stop thinking of "our daughter" and begin thinking of "our son". Of course, in dealing with her personally we have adhered to male pronouns and the like, but between ourselves were reluctant to take that mental step until we were sure that it was real and not just a reaction to external influences. Even though it might be hypocritical of me, I always hoped it would turn out to be "just a phase", not because I don't want a tg cold but because I'm all too aware of the extra challenges and hardships that it adds to one's life. But for anyone who's genuinely transgender, all the hardships and heartaches inherent in gender transition are nothing compared to the misery of being forced to live as something you're not, so now that she's about to be my adult son, all I can do is be supportive, try to use my own experience to smooth the road somewhat, and thank the Creator that we live in a time and place where that particular pursuit of happiness is available, because there are far too many heartbreaking stories of young people who ended their lives in despair over those exact things. And had it turned out to be nothing more than a phase, I still believe that supporting the alternate gender identity would have been the right thing, because A) you can never go wrong by being supportive of your child while they work through the most confusing part of their life, and B) trying to enforce gender norms on a confused teenager is at best counterproductive and at worst, should they turn out to be genuinely tg, potentially highly destructive. But at the same time, there's a big difference between being supportive of a child while they figure things out and actively pushing them toward gender transition, and I just can't see any positive outcome resulting from pushing transition even with a truly transgender child, as even then you're likely to accelerate the timeline to the point where steps are taken and boundaries crossed before the child is really emotionally and mentally ready.

[Julogden]

Snopes clears this up. See this page.

[sarah_hillcrest]

I was thinking something was off with that article, it sounds like it came from the Southern Baptist Convention and not medical professionals. I called total BS when I reached their 7th point.

Rates of suicide are nearly twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones and undergo sex reassignment surgery, even in Sweden which is among the most LGBTQ – affirming countries.

Its like saying many people taking chemotherapy die, it must be the chemotherapy.