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Thread: Transgender vs Crossdresser

  1. #101
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    Pat,
    You put it in a nutshell !
    People's evaluation of themselves, Bobbi related to her friends feelings, she is obviously comfortable with that, I have to say I feel the same way. The fact someone else doesn't feel that doesn't mean it's not a true feeling. You can rename it female companion if it pleases people , but it is a different feeling from a male to female situation.

    Sara Jessica,
    I don't make these remarks to be contentious, I'm not interested in sparking an argument for the sake of it , I'm not a troll and I'm certainly not a POLAR BEAR !!

    Kaitlyn,
    It may have started as feelings associated with sex, but it has developed into a more embracing feeling .


    .

  2. #102
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    i read that comment by sara and thought "dont be so hard on yourself sara"...

    the label matters for communication.... after all if you are in your power suit with wingtips and a crewcut, saying "im a woman" isnt gonna get you anywhere...
    but that's about choice and circumstance.... choosing to PUBLICLY identify as a man is just about getting by for a transsexual woman that doesnt find herself transitioning for any reason...

    and if you dont live your life as a woman, labels can feel painful and be something to cope with as opposed to somthing you identify with..resulting in all kinds of mixed up communication..

    if in your heart of hearts, you are a woman, then you are..
    ...and if you know this... everything else is just what you do about it...
    I am real

  3. #103
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Thank Kaitlyn, after all those contentious TS section threads, I actually remembered this and got it right.

    Sara: You have revealed so much of yourself here that I have no doubt that you are a woman, no matter how you present or what you do. I understand some of your reasons for not moving further forward, and truly respect them and you. Only you know your own details and reasons. I only commented on that specific comment because I believe it to be incorrect as it applies to you and others who for whatever reason can't or won't move forward. As many have said before, one will probably suffer no matter what decision regarding transitioning they take. Please, just keep taking care of yourself as best you can.

  4. #104
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    FROM Pat's quote-

    A bigger issue to me is that (and I'm just an opinion on the internet) normal sexual orientation terms (gay, lesbian, bisexual) don't really apply to transgender people. They have what's called a "cis encoding" meaning that the assumption that the person is cisgender is baked into the term -- a cisgender man who is attracted to other men is gay. A MtF transgender person who is attracted to men is -- what? Gay relative to sex? Straight relative to gender? -- the whole concept gets wrapped around the axle. To me it's an indicator that the word doesn't apply because it prevents rather than enables communication.


    I agree that gay and straight take on a different light. In terms of ts and fully transitioned to their identified gender there becomes a straight or gay as is normally thought of as. But in terms of those of us who are in the neither or both column of gender, we don't have the exact same sexual identity. My wife has pondered this actually and says (jokingly) I end up being gay regardless if it's male or female, to which I said, or straight regardless....

  5. #105
    Member Cherylgyno's Avatar
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    Majella. I am a cross dresser. Yes being a cross dresser is within the definition of transgender. I have D cup breasts due to gynecomastia. I don't wish to transition.

  6. #106
    Member Diane Taylor's Avatar
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    I don't get involved with labels.......a whole lot of fuss over nothing.

  7. #107
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    Allie & Kaitlyn, your replies mean more to me than you could ever understand. I've actually felt kind of like I was on an island pretty much ever since those more contentious days...quietly fighting my own battle and in a way, actually winning to a certain extent. Allie, I read yours a few times before it really sunk in but I hear what you are saying. In a way I was beaten down and for my situation, it turned out OK. Kaitlyn actually made the point succinctly that I tried to make so very long ago. In my heart I'm a female, and always have been. It's just a matter of what to do about it. In my case, very little to this point. This speaks exactly to what you are saying Allie. Because I haven't done much to further that cause, I am hesitant to issue a woman proclamation when presenting as the dude that I portray most of the time. Despite the reality in my heart, I have so much respect for the (TS) women in these pages and those who I know IRL to co-opt the woman as a term of art. But yes, anyone in a situation similar to mine gets that nod-nod-wink-wink because we know the truth...even if some of us are hesitant to shout it from the mountaintops.

    And Teresa, my heart aches for your situation but I believe it to be as real as anyone here. What I cannot know from your writings that I have read is exactly how you identify which is why I addressed the distinction in an earlier reply to you. It may very well be that I have missed something. However, in my book, it seems you are about to embark on a social transition at the very least which means to me that if you wish to use lesbian as a term of description, you're not likely to hear dissent from me (like that would even matter in the least bit). But please, drop the male and it'll be all good !!!
    Last edited by Sara Jessica; 09-30-2017 at 10:45 AM. Reason: an ounce of clarity
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  8. #108
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    Sara,
    This is where the problem lies, maybe it's why I was corrected to use bi-gender instead of male lesbian, I've mentioned a male/female conflict which my gender counsellor suggested after going through my CDing history. The point I'm making is I don't want to lose my male parts and yet I much prefer and will be presenting as a woman in the future. These feelings are very static so I can rule out being gender fluid, I don't float from one to the other .

    Whatever my identity is I'm comfortable with it , OK there is a sexual component . I posed the question in the TS section sometime ago of what happens when the T level drops either naturally or with hormones, I do feel the TS road may change for me if and when that happens. The problem there is age will be against me for any drastic changes, that is just being realistic .

  9. #109
    Aspiring Member Lacey New's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat (aka Jennie) View Post
    Transgender is an umbrella term that identifies anyone who is not cisgender. You may be confusing it with Transsexual which is a particular kind of transgender person. So, except for those crossdressers who somehow claim they are cisgender despite the need to wear women's clothing, crossdressers come under the transgender umbrella.
    I can understand and accept this definition. I have no desire to live as a woman, transition or take on any kind of male partner. I am a completely heterosexual male who very much likes to dress up as a woman from time to time and I enjoy underdressing frequently. As such, I consider myself as a male cross dresser. After much discussion about male lesbians, I am not that. I do not nor have I ever felt as if I was or am a woman. I simply like to cross dress. So, I do not consider myself transgendered at all.

  10. #110
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    Yep, Lacey. That's me, too.
    I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
    My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
    And then I step into the bedroom and in the mirror, I see a beautiful woman looking back at me.
    Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!

  11. #111
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Although 'transgender' is currently an umbrella term, I don't think that will be the case 10 years from now. To most people (such as a random shopper at a grocery store), a transgender person is simply someone who transitions completely from male to female (or vice versa). This is what they understand to be true because they see people like Caitlyn Jenner, Laverne Cox, and Chaz Bono in the media and they are called transgender people.

    In order to change that trend, more crossdressers and non-binary people will need to come out publicly as transgender, put their lives and careers on the line (as TS individuals have), do nationally televised interviews, and so on. But I don't see that ever happening. The voices of CDs and NBs will disappear in comparison to the more public TS voices and will continue to exist only in anonymous safe spaces such as these forums. The vast majority of the general public will never see or hear anything contrary to the idea that has already been placed in their minds that transgender = full transition from male to female.

    If you don't want that to happen, then you should do something about it.

  12. #112
    Silver Member LilSissyStevie's Avatar
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    The difference between crossdresser and transgender is that crossdressing is a behavior and transgender is a construct that attempts to draw many disparate groups under its "umbrella" for political purposes. Once you have been assimilated under their umbrella, the transgender borg then attempts to police how you may dress (nothing too tarty, now!) and which identities are acceptable (NO male lesbians or bi-when-dressed, for example.) This is an umbrella that blocks the light rather than the storm.

  13. #113
    Member Mirya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie View Post
    transgender is a construct that attempts to draw many disparate groups under its "umbrella" for political purposes.
    Wow, I thought I had heard everything but this is completely new to me.

  14. #114
    TrueNorth Strong & Fierce Princess Chantal's Avatar
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    Stevie, I so love your post and you did hit the nail on the head with it.

  15. #115
    Aspiring Member Fiona123's Avatar
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    I crossdress and I am transgender in that I consider my self at least 50% female in terms of gender identity quite possibly more. The crossdressing is an expression of my female identity. Being trans is way more than a mere construct.

  16. #116
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    I haven't been around this forum for a while, so maybe it has changed. But what I liked about the forum when I was here before was how generally accepting it was of all the variations of people who were not cisgender female yet wore female clothes for some reason. It seemed like many of us had interests in common and we could get relevant value from many of the posts, even those by other variations than ourselves. Despite the fact that some of the posts here are not relevant to me, I find the signal to noise ratio very high. Much of the signal is from those different than myself, and much of the noise is from those similar to myself. For that matter, some of the most valuable posts in the past have been by GGs.

    I for one would lose interest in this forum if it started excluding everyone that might be considered too transgender, or not transgender enough. Let people label themselves if they want, but don't force labels on anyone.

    Let's not tear ourselves apart. Let's not let ourselves, as a community, be constrained by the name of our forum any more than we let ourselves as individuals be constrained by our genetics or societies expectations of us. The name of the forum has worked well so far, don't change it.

    Daphne

  17. #117
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    Mirya,
    Whatever label I choose to use I do intend to go out there and be heard , it may not be much but if all goes well I hope to run an art group from my new home. I've already contacted the SAA ( Society of All Artists ) for assistants and to ask if they have any other TG members already doing this.

    Some weeks ago I joined up with two other members of my social group to attend a pride week at Boston ( UK ) college to represent the TG community and hopefully help any students with CDing problems.We spent the day dressed obviously in the public eye . The following day a TV crew did shoot some footage for a regional news program sadly I couldn't attend through other commitments .

    I do agree that the public now days are more likely to think we are TSs , I did post a thread about the label problem titled , " Who's getting it wrong ?" after watching a documentary on being transgender .

    Dandizette/Stevie,
    That notion seams a little screwed up to me , maybe gathering the groups together for political purposes is the feeling you get from the current situation in the US. In the UK the outward thinking is gaining some momentum , it's not all to the good because some tiny minority groups are have too much sway , I'm personally not too happy with the way schools are going .
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-01-2017 at 06:58 PM.

  18. #118
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    OK, I take all the comments about labels on board but in all the recent publicity we mere cross-dressers have got a bit lost. Schools should just allow pupils to wear what they want without any boy wanting to wear a skirt or dress doing so without having to identify as a girl. It has probably got to a stage where the public assume that all guys who wear skirts want to become women and we don't (as is evident from this thread). There is only so much one cross-dresser can do by venturing out as a man in womenswear (though to be honest it is less daunting to go out dressed and acting as a woman which is also good fun, but it is ACTING). Having a voice for the cross-dressers would be useful.

    It has now got the stage where we can try on clothes in womenswear shops and departments as a matter of routine (at least in the UK), which would not have been possible ten years ago. Now we need to get to a stage where anyone can wear these clothes, just as women mostly wear whatever they want. Other countries have males wearing skirts (but only Scotland in the west and these are very particular types of skirts with little scope for variety of style) and able to look smart at work - it could be done in the west. Women achieved it with trousers - we need to do it with skirts.

  19. #119
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    Susan,
    To take you up on this point about UK state schools changing their dress code. Some parents are not happy with the situation because they have taken away the right for girls to wear skirts or dresses , some still want the choice and not have to accept unisex uniforms.

    The same has happened in the NHS , my wife was telling me of some nurses being annoyed because their figure is best suited to a dress rather than a tunic and trousers .

    I'm not sure ifI go along with your comment that dressing in womenswear is no more than acting, if your are on the TS road it's so far removed from that.

  20. #120
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    Hi, I know that I am wrong, but I will never use the term transgender about myself. I find the word assosieted with lot of stuff that I am not.

    But I am happy to use crossdresser.

    Reason is that to many put much more than just dressing up into the word transgender, like acting like the opesite sex, also way to many belive one are gay, when using that term. Even if most crossdressers are actually straight.

    Edited:
    By the way, in my world, the terms TV, TS, TG and CD all have diffrent meening.

    CD - Cross dress = to dress in clothing typically worn by members of the opposite sex.
    TG - Transgender = noting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person’s biological sex assigned at birth
    TS - Transsexual = a person having a strong desire to assume the physical characteristics and gender role of the opposite sex.
    TV - Transvestite _ a person, especially a male, who assumes the dress and manner usually associated with the opposite sex
    Last edited by susannma; 10-03-2017 at 01:20 PM.

  21. #121
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    Teresa

    Getting a bit tired of people on this site claiming that they know me better than I do. I am not on the TS road - not remotely. I NEVER lose sight of the fact that I am a man, and I am very happy to be male. If you are talking about other people then make that clear.

  22. #122
    Member Cherylgyno's Avatar
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    Majella. Very good question. I can only speak for myself. I wanted breasts since I was 6 year's old. I was blessed with D cup breasts due to gynecomastia in my 50's. I am taking supplements for the purpose of increasing the size of my breasts. I am under dressed 24/7/365.
    I consider myself to either be a m to f cross dresser or a person that wears clothes that I am comfortable in. My PTSD Dr says that I am gender dysphoric and thus a member of the transgender community. I do now and always will go with I am a cross dressing male.
    I hope that I have satisfactorily answered your question.

  23. #123
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan54 View Post
    Teresa

    Getting a bit tired of people on this site claiming that they know me better than I do. I am not on the TS road - not remotely. I NEVER lose sight of the fact that I am a man, and I am very happy to be male. If you are talking about other people then make that clear.
    No one is putting a label on you despite being a man named Susan. Your protest is quite loud. If you are in fact a crossdressing dude as you make yourself out to be, then no will will accuse you of being transgender or heaven forbid, transsexual. But please know that while you may not be transgender, your behavior falls under that umbrella. Makes sense as I'm not sure where else you'd put it.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan54 View Post
    OK, I take all the comments about labels on board but in all the recent publicity we mere cross-dressers have got a bit lost. Schools should just allow pupils to wear what they want without any boy wanting to wear a skirt or dress doing so without having to identify as a girl. It has probably got to a stage where the public assume that all guys who wear skirts want to become women and we don't (as is evident from this thread). There is only so much one cross-dresser can do by venturing out as a man in womenswear (though to be honest it is less daunting to go out dressed and acting as a woman which is also good fun, but it is ACTING). Having a voice for the cross-dressers would be useful.

    It has now got the stage where we can try on clothes in womenswear shops and departments as a matter of routine (at least in the UK), which would not have been possible ten years ago. Now we need to get to a stage where anyone can wear these clothes, just as women mostly wear whatever they want. Other countries have males wearing skirts (but only Scotland in the west and these are very particular types of skirts with little scope for variety of style) and able to look smart at work - it could be done in the west. Women achieved it with trousers - we need to do it with skirts.
    I would hate it if women's clothing became normal men's wear. If all the clothing on the female side of my closet were normal wear for a man, it would be on the male side of my closet. The female side would be empty! I wouldn't be able to Cross Dress! How depressing!

    Daphne

  25. #125
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    Susan,
    That comments goes both ways, if you feel you are just acting then say clearly it only applies to you but it doesn't apply to people with GD and TSs. Also I did imply you were TS I was referring to those who are .

    It's the same with some saying it's a hobby, they should realise that doesn't apply to everyone, I would feel it's an insult to make that comment to my wife and family , I could never go through a separation over a hobby .

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