I can't go along with your line of thought. And it looks like there is no room on the mountain top because your already standing there.
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I don't like the pronoun thing. We were all born male. I know those who are going to transition or did prefer the pronoun "her" which I understand. But I am not that so I prefer him even when dressed.
Exactly.
I am a straight crossdresser, I don't identify as a women just like to try and look like one every now and then. But it seems that sometimes crossdressers.com doesn't have room for me or I am told I am fooling myself, I have to be more than that. I am not.
I am all for live and let live as long as your not trampling on others.
I have to chuckle at the "Humorous" labels, they may hold more truth.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Last edited by Sara Jessica; 09-26-2017 at 06:27 PM.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
It's totally valid to be a "straight crossdresser" and I'm pretty sure there's room here at crossdressers.com for you as well as for everyone else. Clothing is one of the most obvious gender role indicators we have in our society so pretty much everyone who is transgender in any capacity engages in crossdressing at some point. For some, like you, it's enough. For others, it's the gateway to where their search is going to take them. Because some people start here and move on, there's a false sense that being "just a crossdresser" is invalid -- they moved on, so they presume you have to move on too. They're wrong of course, and I understand it can be frustrating to be told someone else knows who you are better than you do. There really is no hierarchy under the umbrella.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
I have a big problem with labels because I don't know where I fit. Mostly I just claim transgender because of the umbrella thing.
So...... I identify as a woman, I have for several years now, but due to LIFE I live most of my life as a man. When I had the epiphany that I was a woman it resolved a lot of my gender issues but did not resolve any of my life issues. I have a lot of responsibilities and commitments that are driving what I do most. I could quit my job and divorce my wife and walk away and start over but that is not very practical, and if I learned anything from my mother it is how to be a practical woman. So I split the difference as best I can. I have spent the last 10 days living as a woman and it has been eye opening and scary for me.
So my problem with the labels is that I am a woman, but there are crossdressers that probably spend more time dressed than I do. Does that make me less of whatever label we are debating?
I used to enjoy being labeled as one or the other. Sometimes I'm panties only, most of the time I'm an under dresser, and once in a while I love dressing all the way. I own a pair of breast forms. Now a label is just another way of someone judging me. Pretty soon the LBGTQ is going to include the entire alphabet. I don't need a letter, or a label. We are all different... Skinny/fat, black/white, Catholic/Muslim, old young, jock/nerd etc... Why do we need a label? If I wear men's clothes one day and women's clothes the next, I'm still me. The world has enough judging going on, I'm not going to add anymore to it.
Lexi,
I'm only speaking from my own experiences , I have found we mostly intrigue people, we don't have the religious pressure that you appear to have in the US. Besides the whole LGBTG issue has been put more into the public eye , schools will now be rated on their acceptance policies among other changes.
Sara Jessica,
I have again explained this male lesbian issue in another thread, whether you feel it's delusional or not it's part of my inner feelings, I have explained to my wife and my gender counsellor undertstood it when I explained how my CDing started. I have no intentions of shouting it of in a lesbian community, not because of the rights or wrongs but if I find a new partner I will make it clear to her that it is part of me , a female part that truly desires women alongside my male feelings , there is a difference .
I can't see what the fuss is to be honest. As far as I am concerned anyone can be whatever they wish to be. It seems to me that some on here are precious about being called Trans when they don't feel they are and likewise others who feel they are mislabeled as CD's when they are not. Who cares what the site is called and who cares who is reading/posting/contributing.
Labels are useful to assist ourselves in understanding who we are, but shoudl not be used against others IMO.
I myself feel that I am more than a CD but on the other hand I also don't feel like someone trapped in the wrong body so that makes me in the middle. I post and read threats in the binary forum but alas its pretty quiet there. So I mostly read and post here in the bigger area and hopefully contribute positively at times.
A.K.A Rebecca & Bec
Honestly, at the end of the day who needs labels anyway. Why don't we all just get on with our lives living them as each of us wish to do and leave the labels alone, why complicate life by trying to attribute a label for this or that.
Let us just enjoy what we have.
Isn't that by definition a heterosexual male?
This is precisely where I have trouble getting my head around the male lesbian thing. You are about to enter what appears to be a transition of sorts. Whether you identify as a CD'er or TG or TS is important in the grand scheme of things with respect to being honest with yourself. It is also important when it comes to sexual preference and the seeking of a future partner. You may or may not be able to fulfill the emotional role of a woman in a lesbian relationship (which some might argue is most important) but physically, there'd be some obvious problems.
Generally speaking, women shun us in relationships because they don't want a feminine dude.
Gay men shun us because they like dudes.
Gay women shun us because underneath all of the paint and primping, we are still dudes to them despite what may be in our hearts.
Co-opting an oxymoron such as male lesbian doesn't change any of that.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
Sara Jessica,
I don' have a problem with you not getting it the fact you don't doesn't mean the situation can't exist , my gender counsellor told me I had a male/ female inner conflict and the female side was trying to take over. Also a member from down under agrees with the term , it's a more accepted term in her part of the World , she also added that some lesbian circles accept it's possible in both genders .
The estimate is 25% of the members of my social group are accompanied by their wives/partners and they enjoy it . I'm not intentionally looking for a new partner, if it happens then it happens !! I have discussed this possibility with my wife , the fact is I will be dressed and hopefully integrating into my community and running my art group. My wife also knows I've no interest in men in an intimate way .
So I guess if I take that line of reasoning all TS are just gay males. I assumes some here would think differently. We all know where assumptions get you. But then again I could be misinterpreting your line of reasoning. This is the way I see the thought process you laid out:
So if your born a male and you think your a female and then start to transition to female and like men your still a gay male. So you can't be a TS starting transition and like women and be a lesbian? Your born either male or female can only be gay/straight/bi according to your born gender.
Is that right?
Jessica from the mountain top.
(not sure why I'm jumping into this, but here I go)
Having experienced both GM-GG as well as T*/GG sex, I can say from personal experience that there is IMO a big difference between the two. And YES I mean more than the wardrobe and role-playing. The whole experience is different, and despite the physical limitations, the T*/GG lovemaking is much -MUCH closer to a lesbian relationship than regular hetero sex. Heck, sometimes the -uh- 'thing' wasn't even really involved all that much. It was more intimate and personal for one thing, and we both felt (as much as possible) we were loving another woman. And before you ask - the difference wasn't because of different partners. For I while, I was dating a BI woman, and we found loving each other in both modes to be fulfilling in different ways.
I define myself as Gender Non-Conforming, but since I appear as Male in public, I consider myself a cross dresser due to that. I have thought about transitioning in the past, but have come to realize that gender shouldn't have boundaries, labels, or restrictions. If I want to watch The Mets game or do some other stereotypically male associated activity, while in a sexy outfit I will! I'm turning 20 in a month, and even when I'm out appearing as Adam, I get mistaken for a girl because of some feminine features and qualities I have such as my long hair, and frequently shaved face, smooth skin, etc. If someone refers to me as female, then apologize for thinking I'm a girl, I find it to be a compliment!
-Emily ✌️💖😁
Im with Sara Jessica..
Male lesbian???
The appropriate response to that is ...ummmm No.
its a classic appropriation....
Being a Male lesbian is a fantasy. Nothing more. There is no such thing. It obliterates the meaning of the word male and the word lesbian..
you can't make up the meaning of words...hey I stink at grammar, and sometimes I misuse words without intent to misuse but feel like I'm getting my point across.
that doesn't make me right..
so I get it...I get the point of thinking that way, that struggling with gender is really hard and labels are problematic
...but I don't think anybody is well served by making stuff up to feel better about themselves.
I am real
I'd pretty much agree about "wanting" to be women, even if only temporarily. And the wanting to be vs. Being one trapped in a male body appears to be where the term transgender is headed. Crossdressers, non binary and any of the other sub categories within the transgender spectrum may be headed into their very own space without being part of a spectrum. Idk if that is a better or worse way of communicating who we are, basically because there's so much blending of who we are, along with those who progress through cder, to dual gender or nb, and eventually find their way to the path of transition. So maybe all gender variant roads lead to transgender, but not all of us will travel far enough to get there? I'm sure by this date in a few years there will be all knew verbiage and terms we will be disagreeing about.
Thank you Kaitlyn. Although yours could be the last word, some clarity is needed with respect to my comments...
No, it isn't. Using inference to put words into someone's mouth does not an argument make. In fact, your response leans towards hyperbole at best. But in all fairness, although I had attempted to lay out my point step by step, the origin was apparently lost on you.
A self-described closeted crossdresser is told by a therapist that perhaps the term lesbian applies. This is just foolish. By definition a crossdressing male cannot be a lesbian.
So let's look at the inference that my contention applies to transsexual women. It cannot because a transexual woman who has physically and/or socially transitioned is simply a woman. The social part is important because not all transitioning women go down the GRS path, whether for medical, financial or other reasons. Regardless, if she has relationships with men, then she is a heterosexual female. She cannot be a gay male. If she is attracted to women, OMG...the "L" word!!! Nowhere am I saying or implying male lesbian.
Let me take this a half-step further by conveying how this applies to me personally, and Kaitlyn will remember this. I once made a contention that I am a woman. She was a girl, having been in my heart of hearts since my earliest memories. But my error was to conflate being a non-transitioning TS with what it is to be a woman. At best, the furthest along the path that I am willing to travel is that I am a non-transitioning transsexual with a rich social presence. Although my heart will continually argue with me, I fully accept that my experience does not make me a woman and despite the fact that my attraction is towards women (specifically woman, my wife), I could never lay claim to being a lesbian of any type (I'm sure that'd piss her off as well since she is not a lesbian either).
To bring it all full circle, TG / CD / TS are generally accepted terms of description with roots in the medical and scientific communities. The only requirement if one chooses to apply such a label is honesty about ones experience. But even so, we have all seen those comments by smart a$$es within internet comment sections which might say "I feel that I am a polar bear today..." in an attempt to delegitimize what it means to be a TS. Being a male, living as a male, claiming to be lesbian is something that can be easily seized upon as delusional by the outside world to further the "polar bear" argument. Like I said, I am relieved to have only seen it stated in the confines of these pages.
Finally, has anyone considered that a huge argument against what it is to be transsexual and whether we even truly exist is that we are simply males trying to assert male privilege into that ultimate bastion of what it is to be female? This is used to marginalize TS women on many fronts. I'm certain that the struggle against that injustice is not helped in the least bit by men running around claiming to be lesbians.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
Sara you make some very valid points here which I agree with, I have a very close friend who lives not far from me and who is MtF as well as GRS but she told me thinks of herself as a male lesbian? so I kindly ask this, where does my point fit in the whole scenario of this thread?
Last edited by Bobbi46; 09-29-2017 at 08:41 AM. Reason: misspelling
In terms of my points, this is an outlier. Why does your friend who is MTF with GRS consider herself anything other than a woman?
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
Sara, another good point to which I do not have the answer, her telling me that was at the same time I was coming out to her and so much about me was being discussed that I did not probe that further If I get the opportunity in the future I will ask her just that very thing, it begs the question in having transitioned completely is she in fact happy being a woman or deep down inside is she thinking she made a terrible mistake and of course now there is no going back. The latter I feel I should not ask.
There are thorny questions around people's evaluation of themselves .vs. outsiders' view of them. I always defer to a person's self-evaluation, though in the case where they're asserting they're a member of a group (lesbians) I think they have to defer to that group's norms and standards. Though honestly, for a TS, which I think is what you're saying your friend is, I wouldn't argue the lesbian thing either way. For a crossdresser, I find it a pretty egregious case of cultural appropriation. Various amounts of gray in between.
A bigger issue to me is that (and I'm just an opinion on the internet) normal sexual orientation terms (gay, lesbian, bisexual) don't really apply to transgender people. They have what's called a "cis encoding" meaning that the assumption that the person is cisgender is baked into the term -- a cisgender man who is attracted to other men is gay. A MtF transgender person who is attracted to men is -- what? Gay relative to sex? Straight relative to gender? -- the whole concept gets wrapped around the axle. To me it's an indicator that the word doesn't apply because it prevents rather than enables communication.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
saying you are a male lesbian means you are a male that fantasizes about being a woman having sex with a woman...
that's pretty much it. what else could it possibly be??
nothing wrong with that at all...just call it for what it is
gender is so often conflated with sexuality.... calling yourself a lesbian doesnt make you a woman or partially a woman or kind of a woman ...
I am real
Let me take this a half-step further by conveying how this applies to me personally, and Kaitlyn will remember this. I once made a contention that I am a woman. She was a girl, having been in my heart of hearts since my earliest memories. But my error was to conflate being a non-transitioning TS with what it is to be a woman. At best, the furthest along the path that I am willing to travel is that I am a non-transitioning transsexual with a rich social presence. Although my heart will continually argue with me, I fully accept that my experience does not make me a woman and despite the fact that my attraction is towards women (specifically woman, my wife), I could never lay claim to being a lesbian of any type (I'm sure that'd piss her off as well since she is not a lesbian either).
Sara, This part I do not understand. It has been stated so many times here by transitioning and non-transitioning FtM transexuals, that the the TS person only has to be sure of their own being and declare that they are a woman, whether or not they do anything about it or not. They are all still women. To think otherwise from what I have learned here on this site and talking to my trans acquaintances is to dismiss all trans women who for "whatever" valid reason do not transition. You have declared here many times that you are a MtF TS. That to me means that you are a woman, no matter what you do or not now or in the future. Many may delay their transition to later in life, others maybe never. Your argument seems like that old TS crowd here that stated, and were refuted many times by their TS sisters, that you can only be a transwoman if you finalized your physical transition, in luding GRS, unless prohibited by health issues. Even that argument had "how much" variations, as in living full time or not, or having other surgeries or not.