Transgender vs Crossdresser

[Ressie]

Yes, we even have to repeat ourselves in the same thread sometimes! Not many people are gonna get used to the idea that TG is an adjective. Modifying an adjective with "ed" or "s" doesn't make sense. Saying that "we ran across a group of transgenders" is technically incorrect. How can there be a plural form of an adjective? "Everyone in the group is transgender" would be correct. ed? Would we say that someone is prettyed, cuted or skinnyed?

If fact, as an adjective it doesn't even make sense to think of it as a label. Labels are nouns. But the way language changes TG may become a noun as well as an adjective. There are many words that are nouns as well as adjectives.

Next, IMO the general public, (even medical professionals) don't recognize or understand that someone can be transgender unless they can see it in one's personality. "In the closet" crossdresssers telling someone that they're TG only confuses people. If we say it while wearing an ear ring with tinted hair it will be credible.

The use of the word "transgender" has been confusing since it's more common use which makes me not want to use it. The word was coined in the '50s, but didn't become commonly used until the '90s.

[Krisi]

Transgender is an umbrella term that identifies anyone who is not cisgender. ...................

In some people's minds, perhaps, but not mine. I am a straight male crossdresser. I have no questions about my "gender".

[Pat]

Honestly do we really need to continue all this foolishness?

Tracii, I never understand this -- you don't like threads where people go over nomenclature; I get that. But you always break into those threads to complain that people are talking about it. You don't have to follow this thread. If you see a new one break out, just roll your eyes and go on to the next one. There are a host of topics that are common on this forum that I just skip over because while they're uninteresting to me, they're interesting to others.

In some people's minds, perhaps, but not mine.

As always, my standard disclaimer: I do not argue with anyone's evaluation of themselves. Only you know what you feel. However, when it comes to definitions of words, you don't get to redefine them. "Transgender" was coined in the early 1970's to describe a specific condition. We still need it to describe that condition. It is what it is.

[Krisi]

.......... However, when it comes to definitions of words, you don't get to redefine them. .

And neither do you.

[Sheila B Kelly]

Was never one for labels. I think I'll just stick to being me for now

[Krisi]

I think we would do better to go back to posting about our neighbor seeing us dressed, sharing clothes with our wives or where to buy realistic breast forms and hip pads. It's a crossdressing forum, we are all crossdressers so let's leave it at that.

[NicoleScott]

Pat, I agree with both points of your post above. We don't need posts that contribute nothing but only throw a wet blanket on other members' interests.
As to definitions, there is great inconsistency even among reputable sources, and transgender is the poster child for inconsistencies. Some sources define transgender as gender identity opposite birth sex, and some say gender identity and/or expression opposite birth sex. That's a big difference. Like Krisi, I identify as a guy always, even when crossdressed. Because Krisi doesn't identify as the gender opposite birth sex, she doesn't see herself as TG. I don't identify but sometimes express opposite birth sex, so I fall under the TG umbrella. Choose your source and always be right, I guess.
Or make up your own. I believe that many members here see themselves as TG, meaning more than CD, less than TS. Whatever that means.
I try to avoid using TG because I mean it one way but others read it another. A word that can mean anything means nothing. Even worse, trans.
Many dictionaries recognize transgendered as a word. Attempts to ban the word remind me of discussions about the word sissy, where some people think "I don't like it, so you shouldn't use it". I cringe when I see "high heals". Yikes! But I don't comment because forum rules protect members with different language skills. No heartburn here over transgendered.

[paulinescotlandcd]

After reading this and other threads and a bit of soul searching I have come up with the following definition:

Transgender Person - Anyone who does or desires to present themselves as a gender different than their birth sex, either in public or private and for any length of time.

I like this definition for what it's worth.

[Bobbi46]

Krisi has a very valid point this is a crossdressing forum we are all crossdresser. Yes and more doesn't it say in red just below the banner headline "the#1 community for crossdressers, there family and friends.
That says it all, as was originally posted and suggested the name should be changed the answer is absolutely no for this very reason it is an umbrella community for all regardless of where we are within that community.
Pauline I get your point but to take that a bit further a person who dresses just an hour a day or so here and there cannot be transgender they are plainly a crossdresser.
Transgender is a much deeper thing, I am not a crossdresser I am transgender because I dress all day everyday and live my life as a woman that makes me far more than a crossdresser I am transgender.

[Julie Slowinski]

I like this definition for what it's worth.

Thanks Pauline. Very nice to get some positive feedback. By the way, took a look at your Flickr page. Every single pic is a perfect presentation of elegance - I'm guessing that in regular life your profession is a personal stylist. You really set the bar high for the rest of us.

[GretchenJ]

I think we would do better to go back to posting about our neighbor seeing us dressed, sharing clothes with our wives or where to buy realistic breast forms and hip pads. It's a crossdressing forum, we are all crossdressers so let's leave it at that.

For you perhaps, comfortable that you are a straight crossdresser with no issues about your gender identity, then topics which you listed are the extent to which you receive any value from this forum.

As for others, crossdressing is a gateway activity which may develop into something inherently more internal. When gender dysphoria is involved, this may lead to those who become gender non-binary or to the end of the spectrum transition to the other sex.

As to the eye rolls, yes this subject has been brought up a lot. A lot ! Why, my theories (and they are just that), is that there is much rollover of new people, and yes to many people, myself included, label are damned important to me. I need to know what I am and what I am not, so that I can research the daylights as to like people and what they experienced. Plus what I thought I was a year ago is not what I think I am today. Look at this post for example, this may be the 56th post on terms and labels, but even among us, we still can't totally agree - how can we expect a newbie to grasp these concepts.

We also know darn well that this is not only a cross dressing site ( do you all consider those who post in the TS site to be cross dressing still?). There is no need to change the site name, because CD.com is the least common denominator to all of the aspects under the umbrella.

I do agree that that not all cross dressers are TG, but most TG's who have not transitioned cross dress. Then to Pat's point holds true, anyone who is not Cisgender is a TG (or a TS).

[Teresa]

Krisi,
I don't understand why you read some threads when you make these comments , if you feel they don't apply to you fine but many of us have issues going round in our heads that need resolving, it may have been discussed umpteen times but new members can make a contribution.

Neighbours seeing me is something I'm going to have to deal with, buying the various dressing items is superficial to many of us with TG and other issues .

[Paula DAngelo]

It amazes me that this thread has been going on as long as it has and that it has got as heated as it has. Every one of us that is posting is a member here and as such we all have access to the common areas of the board. It seems that people have forgotten that we're all here for each other, to help and not to pick each other apart. It also seems that there are plenty of people that haven't looked to closely at, or have chosen to ignore some of the stickies that the mods have created for us. We have a sticky in the intro section that defines some of the common terms for us. We may not agree with those definitions however they are the definitions for this site until the mods deem that they should be changed.

The following definitions come directly from that sticky and pretty much should end the debate on the meaning of the terms that some of the members here are trying to redefine:

Crossdressing (transvestism): Wearing clothing and adopting a gender role presentation that, in a given culture, is more typical of the other sex.

Transgender: Adjective to describe a diverse group of individuals who cross or transcend culturally defined categories of gender. The gender identity of transgender people differs to varying degrees from the sex they were assigned at birth.

Transsexual: Adjective (often applied by the medical profession) to describe individuals who seek to change or who have changed their primary and/or secondary sex characteristics through femininizing or masculinizing medical interventions (hormones and/or surgery), typically accompanied by a permanent change in gender role.

Using these definitions if you do anything (dress, act, think, whatever) that typically would be done by the gender other than what you were assigned when you were born you are a transgender individual (vary broad category) which would include most of the members here.

If you dress and present as other than the gender assigned at birth you would be considered a crossdresser. Therefor someone dressing and hoping to be treated as what they appear to be would be a crossdresser, where as someone that is just wearing the clothes but not trying to be other than what they are is not (MIAD would be an example) but they would still be a transgender individual.

Anyone is free to call themselves whatever they want, and if that's what makes you feel better about yourself fine, it's no concern of mine. When people try to change the meaning of terms to match what they want to be instead of using the agreed definitions all they're doing is causing confusion and discord among the members.

Like it or not the definitions have been spelled out for us and are what they are. If you don't like the definitions given then try and work with the Mods/powers that be to have them changed. Let's stop arguing over the little things and let's do what we can to help each other, not belittle each other.

[mykell]

i dont think majella meant it like a title fight for pay-per-view, but some argue semantics of it

in for a penny in for a pound.... this is the medical definition of the word https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender which to me encompasses all, inclusion....i never understand why some are so indifferent to be included....united and having a common cause....why such protest of being part of a group. are you insulted by it ? do you feel superior to it ? does it embarrass you ?

it doesnt make one less of a man by standing by folks with similar interests.....when i first came here i considered myself a crossdresser.....(spellcheck dissed it again......but transgender is a word) i digress.....after much more objectivity i have learned that their is much more to it, so i may have joined crossdressers.com i am a member of the transgender community....it works for me.

[Lana Mae]

Thank you, Paula!!! Hugs Lana Mae

[Tracii G]

Pat you made my point thanks.
There is a search function but people just won't use it and that is why the horse gets beaten over and over.
And Pat I do pass over 50% of threads on here because its the same old thing pantyhose,bras and undies under your male clothes.

[Tina_gm]

in early 2013 I went to a very reputable gender counselor who explained that transgender is the umbrella term for any gender variant expression and identity. Now granted, there can be a few exceptions such as comedic purposes or for one to dress another as the opposite gender for an experiment or just to see what it is like. But, anyone who wishes to do so, or feels they are something other than their birth gender falls under the transgender umbrella. Again, that was coming from a reputable gender counselor in 2013. Oh how things seem to have changed even since then.

I believe it was Caitlyn Jenner who made a distinct difference between saying she was transgender, vs others who are just cross dressers. And the media sure has rolled with that. The media at large, along with many politicians and other official public services now see transgender as something other than just cross dressing. And many on here seem to wish to make such a distinction for themselves as well. Many on here have said exactly that they are just cross dressers and not transgender.

I consider myself to be transgender, though I do not consider myself to be a woman in a man's body. Or I should better state completely that as I feel the presence of a man within me as well. I dress in women's clothing because I hold an identity of some sort which matches this. Maybe its just simple enough that I am feminine enough to feel this way, feminine like a woman yet not one. Or who really knows for certain. I don't get too caught up with terminology as it is changing so rapidly that before anyone, even us can get used to a new term, another new term takes its place. I would love to see a jeopardy transgender show. Alex would become alexis of course, and obviously all answers would be answered in the form of a question. Maybe then when someone says what is transgender will we know for certain....

[Rogina B]

Next, IMO the general public, (even medical professionals) don't recognize or understand that someone can be transgender unless they can see it in one's personality. "In the closet" crossdresssers telling someone that they're TG only confuses people. If we say it while wearing an ear ring with tinted hair it will be credible.

Yes ! And I will add..
When a person,that was "possibly not born a genetic woman" is standing in a line at an auto parts store at 7:30 am on a Monday morning..They are viewed as being transgender.. People don't play "dress up" for that...

[Allison Chaynes]

3 pages and no one has said it?

The difference between a CD and being Trans is 2 years. I forget what book I read that in, it's meant in humor, but there is some truth to it.

Now, with that said, as far as the TG umbrella, if you google it, CDs fall under it in some depictions but not in others. I cannot tell you why, it's basically the opinion of whatever person or group runs each site you pull it up on.

[IleneD]

I consider myself to be transgender, though I do not consider myself to be a woman in a man's body. Or I should better state completely that as I feel the presence of a man within me as well. I dress in women's clothing because I hold an identity of some sort which matches this..

GenderMutt,
Great post, especailly the last paragraph. That resonated with me, and explains much of how I also identify.
The Wife and I have been discussing at length and over the last weeks about my crossdressing. I give her credit of reaching out and trying to understand the phenomenon. One of the things she mentioned in regards to the online research she conducted (to learn more about the CD habit), was that she Googled "men who want to be women" as her keyword phrase. I was almost amazed she didn't go with "crossdressing" or "transgenderism" but the phrase she used made crystal clear sense. It also worked for her.

When one thinks about it, one of the things common to every dressing participant on this forum is we are men who want to be women. Some want that for a full time life identity. Others find it in a recreational sense, or one of the many manifestations of men in women's clothes. Whether you fully admit it or not, we are that indeed; men who wish to be women in some way.

For me a label doesn't matter. I suppose I am indeed transgender because my identity spans genders. I like the way you expressed it, Mutt. I can't reasonably divest myself of my male identity. It still comes in handy for many life situations, and the reality of my current existence makes a full transition too costly. But I also have the strong female identity screaming that I've always wanted to be a woman and still have a desire to dress and live as a woman. At this point I consider myself kind of a hybrid male/female identity.
I'm at peace knowing I'm transgender (and doing all I can do to entertain that side), and I'm OK with being "just a crossdresser" as my situation dictates. I'm equally proud of it all.

[Sara Jessica]

One therapist suggested I'm lesbian (not sure about that).

Me either. Men cannot be lesbians. Fire your therapist, he's an idiot.

Depends. If you self identify as female, and are also only attracted to females, the new definitions would sort of imply that 'he' is a lesbian.

While this is a tangent to the original premise, it is still related because it has to do with labels. Being a lesbian is not a state of mind that can be co-opted by men thinking they are being cute in their self-description. If anyone thinks otherwise, go play dress-up in your feminine best and prance into any lesbian safe space looking for a hook-up and see what kind of reception you get.

Labels are one thing but delusional proclamations of being something that by definition one cannot be gives credibility to those who attack our community with such comments to discredit what it is to be transgender and transsexual. Fortunately, those who stand on the mountain top proclaiming to be male lesbians are usually confined to pages such as these.

[BrendaPDX]

I have wondered the same thing, when cross dressing and meeting another cross dresser I will use the female terms like her or refer to us a gurls (when I am enfemme). Clearly we are not women or transgender and don't want to be, we are cross dressers. But the endearing terms when meeting or with others like us seem to bring us closer. There are so few of us that simply meeting another makes them almost like family.

[Krisi]

.......... CDs fall under it in some depictions but not in others. I cannot tell you why, it's basically the opinion of whatever person or group runs each site you pull it up on.

And some people post their "opinion" as fact, hoping to make others believe it is so.

[rachael.davis]

crossdresser - I can't wait to get home, and slip into a corset, and stiletto heels
transgender - I can't wait to get home, do my face, get into slacks and a nice top and meet some friends
transsexual - I can't wait to get home and get out of these damn heels - they're killing me

[Melissa Rose]

transsexual - I can't wait to get home and get out of these damn heels - they're killing me

.....and take off my bra and make-up then change into comfy pj's. That's is my Monday through Friday and sometimes Saturday life.

As for many things, labels have good and bad points. To some they are almost worthless and to others they are very helpful especially for those starting to navigate a new neighborhood. As you grow to better know the neighborhood, details as to whether it is a street, court or boulevard starts to be more meaningful. It is up to the individual, and perhaps context, as to how meaningful.

I doubt there will ever be universal agreement on label definitions. When you step back and clear out the noise, it is often the nuances and not the core definition that most disagree about.

I find it a little ironic that a group that pushes back against a gender binary appears to get worked up about a CD and TS binary label definition. Be who and what you are as long it is not harmful to others and the labels may not matter so much, however, misappropriating a label can lead to trouble in some cases.

I have to admit to sometimes going "Oh no, this old topic again". I have to remind myself to be patient and understanding as I was a newbie in the past. The fact that these topics reappear tells me many have the same ongoing questions or issues, and the answers are not readily evident. Trolls who like to stir things up is another story.