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Thread: Why More M2F than F2M?

  1. #26
    Senior Member Ceera's Avatar
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    My first thought on reading the OP’s post was a Japanese anime cartoon in which a crossderssing dad was elated that his son also wanted to be a crossdresser. The dad went on and on about how “only a man can truly cross-dress, because women already routinely wear male clothes!” He has a point. A woman wearing pants or pieces of male attire is so common that no one notices, in most countries. She has to sport facial hair or use a packer in her pants to present a male bulge down there, before anyone assumes she is trying to be seen as a male. Even cutting her hair in a short male style doesn’t get the same effect as a male wearing an obviously feminine blouse, skirt or wig. They just think she is lesbian if she severely crops her hair.

    Among the transgender community, as opposed to cross dressers, it seems to me that the FtM trans men ‘pass’ much better than most MtF trans women do. In part this may be because hormone therapy works better for FtM than for MtF. But I think it is also because an effeminate male is still more likely to be seen and accepted as male than a woman with masculine traits is to be accepted as a woman. So unless they tell you, it is quite likely that you see far more trans males than you realize. Trans men are less visible.

    I have met quite a few people in the CD, Trans and Drag Queen communities, in two very different geographical regions. This includes both social groups and therapy/support groups. MtF seems more common in all of them, by a 3 to 1 margin or better, when one excludes obvious or known lesbians who dress male while still presenting female. But this may just be because the FtM guys need less support, because they pass easier. I have talked to quite a few FtM trans men, and yes, they often have the same struggles that MtF women face. But once they cross the hurdle of coming out as trans, and get fairly well along in their transition, it seems easier for them to vanish back into society, comfortable in their new gender role.
    Last edited by Ceera; 09-28-2017 at 12:59 PM.

  2. #27
    Mannequiniste ! Stacy Darling's Avatar
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    Here is a blanket YES!

    Remember the 1980's Women's power suit? I do, and know that the clothing and styles covered the lesbian activities which covered up by some!

    Now I'm thinking about men's rights?
    STOP, Well I just dance the way I feel
    Stop breathing imagine none of this is real

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  3. #28
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceera View Post
    Even cutting her hair in a short male style doesn’t get the same effect as a male wearing an obviously feminine blouse, skirt or wig. They just think she is lesbian if she severely crops her hair.
    Not that, either. Numerous hot hetero females like to cut their hair off because of the hassle of taking care of long hair.
    If you're a woman, and you've got a banging bod, you'll still be attractive to enough men even if you have NO hair.
    Especially the married ones; they feel that once they've 'caught' their husband, looking physically attractive isn't worth the effort. To most women, appearance isn't as important as assets, income, and social status. A guy can look like a troll if he's rich and important enough, and still be a great 'catch'.

    I'm not sure of the what the exact ratio of mtf vs ftm is. There is no real way to know, much as there is no way to know how many men crossdress. All because so many of all mentioned, are closeted.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  4. #29
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    Haha, yes he could be orange and have the world's worst comb over, but because he is rich means he is successful, and therefore a catch!

  5. #30
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Probably not as lopsided as it appears. The reason being is that in western (most) society today, there is much more strict expectations of what men should and shouldn't do and how they should or shouldn't dress. F.t.m. are basically out in plain sight, and it isn't the spectacle that it is for mtf.

  6. #31
    Aspiring Member KimberlyJean's Avatar
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    Where I work we seem to attract the FtM people. However out of all of the manly women we have only a couple who are pursuing transition. Most of them are living in a lesbian relationship , have short hair and dress only in male clothing. And that seems to be enough they don't feel the need to pursue any further transition. And while that stretches the norm for alot of women it really isn't that strange anymore. So I say that actually transitioning people the numbers are probably roughly equal, but the number of women actually living as men is alot higher. But if we all were brave enough to actually dress the way we wanted to they may be more even.

  7. #32
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    This was very interesting! I've never really thought about the F2M population, in depth, until now, so I did some web searching. I'm now gonna wonder about every youngish man I see with a beard .. look at his hand, check for an adams apple, etc.. As a result, I'll probably wonder even more! May all such F2M folks find peace and success.

  8. #33
    Aspiring Member StarrOfDelite's Avatar
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    Probably there are more M2F than F2M because all the M's are already half-female to begin with. All males are born with both an X female chromosome and a Y male, whereas females are born with only X chromosomes. As the old saying goes, "It's Complicated," but there is a gene which triggers the growth of male characteristics, and that gene is absent in females. If it's flawed or damaged then it is possible that certain masculine traits will not develop. If you want to go beyond that simplistic comment, there's a whole internet full of information on the subject out there waiting to be explored.

  9. #34
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    I don't think it's sexual. My theory is that men essentially have few choices and women have so many; it's this double standard of women essentially being able to have their cake and eat it too that, in my opinion, is why there are more MTF than FTM.

  10. #35
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    I don’t mean to be rude, but this thread is kind of pointless without reliable facts. Otherwise you’re literally speculating about speculation.

  11. #36
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    Cos women are sexy and they know it!

  12. #37
    Senior Member 5150 Girl's Avatar
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    I have 2 theories...
    The first one is that women already dress a lot like men these days anyway. Jeans, boots, t-shirts ect, have become excepted everyday items for women, therfore we think nothing of a woman in a pair of rugged jeans, but a man in a dress still sticks out like a sore thumb.
    My second theorie is that we all start with an X cromozone, making female the default gender. It is not until conception that we get a second X making a female or a Y a male. Look = XX=female, XY= male.... Also, that XY combination needs the right hormonal balance as a fetus to develop "normally" That balance is easily disrupted by undue stresses on the expectant mother.

  13. #38
    Aspiring Member Fiona123's Avatar
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    I would guess that we are fairly evenly distributed male to female / female to male. I think that the issue is that male to female crossdressers and transgendered women have a greater stigma attached. I don't know why. The writer Julia Serrano talks about this.

  14. #39
    Reality Check
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genny B View Post
    It would appear to me that there are less of us than them. The numbers of transmen is mind staggering. But they don't make headlines like we do, that's all.

    Genny B
    Really? I can only think of one.
    Krisi

  15. #40
    Aspiring Member Fiona123's Avatar
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    I have a theory that gender operates on a bell curve. Most folks are clustered around the mean that is they are cisgendered. Some folks or transgender. Some consider themselves without gender. Between the two there is continuous variation.

  16. #41
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    Sadly, I think part of the increase in FtM is because of the way that men have society set up in their favour. It's what my SO refers to as the patriarchy. It's problably not the main reason, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a factor.

  17. #42
    Gold Member Dana44's Avatar
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    I would say that we are about equal with FTM and MTF. because when every we see them talking to congress. they are away FTM's and it is hard to tell them from men. But us out and about are more definable and get outed more often.
    Part Time Girl

  18. #43
    Aspiring Member Lacy PJs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150 Girl View Post
    I have 2 theories...
    The first one is that women already dress a lot like men these days anyway. Jeans, boots, t-shirts ect, have become excepted everyday items for women, therfore we think nothing of a woman in a pair of rugged jeans, but a man in a dress still sticks out like a sore thumb.
    I'd pretty much have to agree with your assessment. First off, women have FAR MORE latitude than men do when it comes to style/fashion. If a woman wants to wear her hair short, she does. If a guy wants to wear a bob or a "do" or even braids, it's "What's up with HIM???" And, as you mention, no one bats an eye if a gal walks into the men's section of a clothing store, grabs some jeans & a flannel shirt then tries them on. I know I drew more than one wary eye when I'd shop gowns & robes for my wife many years ago. So in today's world, women are already accepted as "casual" crossdressers. And no one questions their motivation.

    Modern fashion trends encourage this. Are there counterparts to "boyfriend shirts" or "boyshorts?" Can you imagine walking into a men's store and picking up some "girlfriend blouses" or "pantyshorts???"

    Lacy PJs

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