Transgender awareness

[Pat]

just asking if you think fetish dressing of whatever type is OK in public? To me that's not really a transgender issue just a public decency issue regardless of the person's gender.

I think the choice is theirs, not mine. If fetish dressers make the decision to go out to an inappropriate venue I'll roll my eyes with the rest of the public, but I just mark it down to "it takes all kinds." I don't see it as an assault on the transgender community because of course we'll have people who are over-the-top -- we're human beings. If that person is going to get hooted down, let them be hooted down for bad taste or poor judgement, not for the fact they're transgender. There are fetish men and fetish women who also appear in public and draw the same snarky reactions. I don't think we want to be better than everyone else, we just want to be the same.

I don't believe the "damage" they cause in the public's mind is greater than the damage we ourselves cause when we in-fight. If the transgender community plays its cards right, what should go mumbling through the crowd is "None of the transgender folks *I* know dress like that."

[Tracii G]

You may mark it down to "it takes all kinds" but the general public has a tendency to lump us all in one category.
Pat I was in a situation where I was eating dinner in a fairly nice dinner spot enfemme with a GG friend.
We were chatting away having a great time bothering no one around us that I could tell and in walk 3 guys dressed like they just came from a rocky horror show viewing.
Ultra fetishy and quite frankly disgustingly over the top.
The hostess freaked a bit and ended up seating them 2 tables away from my GG and I.
Let me tell you the other patrons around us were disgusted and my friend and I got lumped in with the rocky horror crowd.
We had nothing to do with them yet our dinner was ruined because of these 3 fetishy nasty SOBs.
My friend and I apologized to the folks around us and said that we had nothing to do with them and one lady said all of you are nasty perverted people.
One table of 8 people on the other side got up and left. We left as well after getting a few to go containers for our food.
These 3 fetishy dressers ruined dinner for quite a few people and drove business away from the establishment as well.
I can tell you being shunned and called disgusting,perverted and nasty in a public place is the most horrible feeling I have ever experienced in my life.
Thats why I have an aversion to the 2 dollar hooker fetish look.

So my point is when someone makes a statement like "it shouldn't matter how the trans person is dressed" I get that but the fact is we "DO" get lumped into that crowd weather we like it or not.

[Rogina B]

As an "out" transwoman,I am who I am every day in the mainstream. My name is mine,no hiding or deception. When I am sitting with my banker,I am doing just that..me being myself. I take positive steps toward awareness from those around me. I do not believe that anyone operating in "stealth" mode really does anything toward Trans awareness. I don't want to be painted with the same broad brush as Tracii's story described.

[Tracii G]

Rogina talk about feeling like total hell after that encounter and my GG friend got called a DQ by one of the lady diners that assumed she was a CD as well, how horrible is that?
I had to console my friend for hours over it she was devastated that another woman would think she was a man in womens clothes.
I can't imagine the hurt she suffered because of those 3 ass clowns.
My old self would have ripped those 3 apart right there on the spot and she knew that so it was her idea to leave.
We still speak but will never go out shopping with me again because of that night.
If those 3 fetishy dressers had been dressed more like average real woman none of this would have happened so chew on that.
So your actions as a trans person, CD whatever you call yourself depend a lot on how you present yourself in public.
You might have some ideological stance that how you dress shouldn't matter because you want to be all inclusive or liberal but that is not based in reality because it sure as hell matters how you present.

[Rogina B]

You might have some ideological stance that how you dress shouldn't matter because you want to be all inclusive or liberal but that is not based in reality because it sure as hell matters how you present.

I agree ! And,they aren't using their "real name" to go with the image and behavior..

[NicoleScott]

Well, I wouldn't want to upset the community, so if you don't like the two dollar hooker look, tell me what dollar amount hooker look would be acceptable for going out?

[Dana44]

Nicole that was a good one. I don't think we look like a hundred hooker when we are out. I do try to pass and may have a nice skirt on.. Yep we wear skirts out and I go about four inches above the knee. Hope that isn't a hooker look. LOL

[terza]

it wouldn't be the first time i see a cd/transgender scapegoating a faction. i'm positive they, and myself, are not your enemy. but i hope you would see the irony in doing so.

women are resilient, especially the secure ones. genetic women doesn't mean genetically stunning. some women are quite homely, and gets mistaken, or maliciously bullied. would a fat person blame his/her companion(s) for being obese when they get ridicule for being fat?

awareness is nice, but the bigger scope is Live, and let live --and not just for the LGBT.

[Tracii G]

Nice how everybody else can have and voice their opinion but me.
I'm the one that is always wrong when I speak my mind so I can take a hint.
Y'all can flap your gums from your closet I 'll still be out in the real world living my life.

[BLUE ORCHID]

. They told me that crossdressing in quiet places (empty car parks, night time on the street) brings the impression of someone who is awkward and creepy.

Hi Irenetan , Not only that but it is downright DANGEROUS ! >Orchid......

[Pat]

Nice how everybody else can have and voice their opinion but me.
I'm the one that is always wrong when I speak my mind so I can take a hint.

Tracii, I'm truly sorry you're feeling picked on. I see that not everyone agreed with you, but I didn't see anyone telling you not to express your opinion. Discussion threads are like that -- you don't agree with me and I'll discuss it with you, but I don't take it personally.

In the case of the story you related about the "3 fetishy dressers" I actually see a different dynamic playing out. In your story, 3 fetish CDs walk into a restaurant and are seated and served (not ejected or arrested.) The other patrons realize that their recourse is to complain and/or leave (instead of commit battery.) You yourself say "My old self would have ripped those 3 apart right there on the spot..." All of which says to me that there is social progress happening. You know that if that happened 20 or 30 years ago, there would have been blood involved in the story. My uncle, the vice cop, used to take great pride in telling me (in the late 50's / early 60's) the horrible things they did to people who these days are called LGBT. They would leave someone bleeding in an alley with the message that if they wanted to come to the station and swear out a complaint, they'd get more of the same. I don't see that anywhere in your story.

Now at the same time you encountered a hostile person: "...one lady said all of you are nasty perverted people." She didn't develop that opinion on the spot -- she walked in with that mindset and she left with it. It wasn't the existence of the fetish dressers that caused it to happen and nothing you or your friend could have done in that time would change it even if the fetish dressers hadn't walked in.

Personally, I'll take a world with a few cranky people in it as long as that world lets everyone eat in the restaurants, go to the movies, walk down the street, etc. Because there will never be a world without cranky people. But up until recently, there hadn't been a world where those 3 could be out and you could be out and I can be out and the people who are closeted can eventually come out and join us. The story you told is a story of our tiny minority community winning. (To me.) Don't feel picked on -- we're just talking here.

[Janine cd]

I would think that dressing up in appropriate feminine attire and going about one's daily business should send a clear message to all that we are normal human beings.

[Tracii G]

OK Pat no matter what I say you are stuck in your ideology.
The mean lady that went off on me and my GG friend may have walked in with that mindset but she was fine before the 3 ass clowns came in.
She was tolerating me I suppose because I was dressed nicely and being respectful. She even said she liked my purse when my friend and I were seated.
My friend and I suffered humiliation BECAUSE of the **** pack that came in plain and simple and you can't deny that and throw some sugar on it and call them getting seated a win????
Honestly I have no words to describe how crazy that sounds. My friend and I have to leave yet the ones that cause the issue and set the lady off on a meltdown are given a win for the trans community????? OMG
This twisted logic makes my head hurt.
Poke me with a fork I'm done.

[Bobbi46]

Tracii.
truly I am sorry for what happened to you but things like this will happen again (not necessarily to you) somewhere else it is a fact of life that there will always be a minority pushing the boundaries as far as they can without getting stopped. This I think was what happened that night. Whilst I'm not condoning what they did because it was wrong but these things happen from time to time.
What can we do about it? on the one hand very little but by going about our normal business dressed, as we feel we can only promote our community by the way we and you dress and to show people we are normal people leading normal lives but dressing in our own way.
It's sad fact of life there will always be people hell bent on ruining other peoples daily lives or special occasions. We just have to get on with life and forget oabout them as best we can

[Pat]

OK Pat no matter what I say you are stuck in your ideology.

Sure, I have no problem with that. You and I have disagreed before and we will again. It's OK for that to happen. You're focusing on the personal impact to you, I'm focusing on the societal impact -- there's room for us both. There will always be fetish dressers. Even if the current population of fetish dressers all decide they'd rather be blendy there will be new fetish dressers that come along behind them. And it's sad they spoiled your dining experience and made some woman get frothy and include you in her rant. But I'm hoping it happens more and more until people just look up and think, "Oh. Them again." and go back to their meals. Because this scenario has played out before -- for blacks, for gays, for people with visible medical problems, people in culturally-different clothing -- and now, hopefully, us. Transgender people. All transgender people, not just the pretty ones, not just the conformant ones, but all six-tenths-of-one-percent-of-the-general-population of us. But it's just my opinion. I have no illusions that I'm going to convert you, I'm looking to get my words out there where they may resonate with others who don't have a stand yet. If you keep putting the ball on the tee...

[Mirya]

I cannot believe that the treatment of fetish dressers is being compared to the marginalization of blacks and gays. It's not even close to the same thing.

[Tracii G]

Its more of a common decency issue to me in a public eating place.
Bare ass cheeks in assless chaps is not proper attire for dining I'm sorry its just not its disgusting.
If they want to dress that way at a club oK I'm fine with that because its appropriate there.
Heck I'm gay but at least I have standards of decency when I am out in public.
The liberal will always argue the black /gay issue thinking it makes them feel they are on the moral high ground.
To defend the bad judgment of these 3 guys I just don't know what to say.
I don't care if they are trans,gay or a Village People tribute band it makes no difference they should have more sense and decency than to come into a place to eat dressed that way.

[jennifer0918]

Be nice

All we need is love.

When Iam out en femme I try to act as a lady, dress appropriately,blend in the best way possible. Be honest to myself at least(I'm closeted ) iam not a girl so this means when people ask "are you a drag queen?"no but iam a crossdresser I was born this way. I think if we educate our peers we can achieve a lot more,instead of being in your face rocky horror clowns,good point Tracii I agree with you girl I see your point. Keep speaking your mind you have tremendous courage,at least more then me,but iam learning.

[Tracii G]

There could have been a showing of the movie downtown and yes I have seen them on occasion and I am fine with it, its a cult classic so I get it.
I wonder how Pat would be perceived if she wore a baby doll nighty to a Ruth's Chris steak house? Get seated I doubt it?
Why because she is trans? No because its not proper attire for a dinning establishment and they have standards.
Dressing properly is important.
I did contact the corporate office of this establishment and they said they will look into it.
They did say trans people are more than welcome and that they have trans employees in their company so trans is not an issue.
The lady said the hostess most likely didn't know how to handle the situation and they will speak to her on the matter.
I asked she not be fired just educated on the proper way to handle a situation like this.
The lady at corporate agreed she would not be terminated.
They offered a $100 dollar gift card to me for my troubles and I declined.

[Pat]

Its more of a common decency issue to me in a public eating place.

Really? Because that's not how you presented it at first. You presented it as outrage because you were sitting in a restaurant and "in walk 3 guys dressed like they just came from a rocky horror show viewing." Because your way of being transgender is OK but their way of being transgender is not. And each retelling, you ratchet the story up a little more until now it's indecent public exposure -- and you declare "I don't care if they are trans,gay or a Village People tribute band..." Sure, sign me up for objecting to indecent public exposure by any person -- that's wrong no matter who does it. So why bring it up in a discussion of accepting other kinds of transgender person than yourself? And now you've slipped off into a private world where you imagine me in a baby doll nighty visiting a steak house? Get a grip.

I cannot believe that the treatment of fetish dressers is being compared to the marginalization of blacks and gays. It's not even close to the same thing.

They're very much alike when discussing people being tolerated in a public venue. In each case those folks started out causing a stir -- a flush of outrage by people who appointed themselves defenders of social normalcy -- and over time they achieved acceptance and became commonplace because they persisted. As I'm hoping the trans community will. And in each case there was a push to settle for "good enough" -- maybe light-skinned blacks could be in our restaurants but not the really dark ones. Maybe the "striaght-acting gays" were tolerable but not the flamboyant. And, fortunately, in each case that didn't work. Normalcy had to be extended to encompass all members of the class, not just some. Today we're pitching the idea that "passable" or "blendy" trans folks are OK but maybe not the fetishers, maybe not the MIADs -- but that's not good enough. There needs to be a place carved out where not just the pretty can walk around -- I don't want to name names other than my own but we have many members of this forum who are not going to meet the standard of prettiness.

[Tracii G]

Oh my it really is hard to believe you actually think that way.
I guess it takes all kinds.

[Julie Slowinski]

I'm kinda torn on this one, but I'm gonna have to go with Tracii here. If the goal is to show that we are normal people, then we should act like normal people and dress appropriately for the occasion. I think public opinion on gay marriage benefited greatly from Modern Family and their portrayal of a gay couple being very normal. No need to be rubbing all aspects of a community into the faces of the general public. Of course, everyone is free to do what they wish (it would be hypocritical to be on this site and say otherwise), but I agree with Tracii that it is not likely to benefit 'the cause'

[sarah_hillcrest]

I think we're really all mostly in agreement here, things just get kind of blurry in the grey areas.

My biggest concern is when people try to drag "civilians" into their kink without consent. The example I gave of the old man wearing little girls clothes that were 4 sizes to small went to the Barnes and Nobles with one idea on his mind, humiliation and forcing all of us innocent bystanders to be involved in his humiliation. Had the clothes been the exact same but close to his actual size and had he naturally walked in and went about shopping I doubt it would have turned to many heads.

I was thinking about when a woman dresses all sexy and goes out she's expressing her sexuality and no one really cares because its in the norm its what we expect. Is it that much different? I've definitely seen women showing more skin then my example and it was perfectly fine.

Ultimately I don't think it matters, people are going to do what people are going to do regardless of what we think. I wouldn't advocate for laws that violate a persons freedom of speech, as it would be like shooting ourselves in the foot.

It's really up to the proprietor of the establishment I guess, if they feel that a patron is not dressed appropriately they should be asked to leave.

[Tracii G]

Ii would love to respond Sarah but whatever I say will be ridiculed.

[IleneD]

I am more and more on the "tone it down" bandwagon myself.
18 months ago when I first began to seriously and fully dress up [beyond old under dressing habits, etc.], I went for the flashy and sexy look to first express my inner woman.
Now I find my "look" is much more casual and suited for going about in public as "normal" as possible; trying to wear something a GG might REALLY wear out shopping or for lunch (and not a cocktail dress). Tried casual skirts and t-shirt tops (scoop necks, etc). Gone with leggings and tunics. Pants and skinny jeans.
I've been wearing as little makeup as possible out in public. Usually only lipstick (and a neutral pink at that), or lipstick and brows.
In keeping with my minimalist theme, I made a long 4 hr car trip last week dressed; knee length khaki skirt, top, bra/panties, wig. sandals. Lipstick. No hip forms or stockings, etc. It was so comfortable, BTW
Finding that at times, less (or casual) is more. Observe the GG's.